Transcript: Episode 0077
This transcript:
- Was machine generated.
- Has not been checked for errors.
- May not be entirely accurate.
WEBVTT 00:00:37.291 --> 00:00:39.471Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:00:39.771 --> 00:00:40.751 I am Corey J. 00:00:40.771 --> 00:00:41.171 Mahler. 00:00:41.791 --> 00:00:43.011 And I'm still, whoa. 00:00:44.471 --> 00:00:48.131 This week's Stone Choir is a little different from our standard episodes. 00:00:48.731 --> 00:00:56.111 Last week, we joined Will Spencer from the Renaissance of Men Podcast and recorded a wide-ranging discussion. 00:00:56.771 --> 00:00:59.951 Many of the topics will be familiar to the Stone Choir audience. 00:01:01.151 --> 00:01:16.091 We discussed the origin of the Stone Choir Podcast, why we started the podcast, why we address some of the topics that we do, why it is important to speak the truth and the consequences of doing so, and a number of related topics. 00:01:16.791 --> 00:01:19.971 Those are covered largely in this first episode. 00:01:20.651 --> 00:01:22.531 We covered additional topics as well. 00:01:22.911 --> 00:01:26.651 There will be a second episode released at some point in the future. 00:01:27.671 --> 00:01:30.251 The audio for that is not currently publicly available. 00:01:30.491 --> 00:01:33.671 This is the first segment, which runs about two and a half hours. 00:01:34.191 --> 00:01:37.151 The second segment runs about four, four and a half hours. 00:01:37.171 --> 00:01:39.631 And again, that will be released in the future. 00:01:41.371 --> 00:01:47.751 That second segment, just like this one, will be released in the future on the main Stone Choir stream. 00:01:49.611 --> 00:01:53.591 I have left in Will Spencer's introductory monologue, which begins now. 00:01:55.651 --> 00:01:58.911 My guests this week are the hosts of the most popular podcast. 00:01:59.251 --> 00:02:01.311 No one is allowed to admit that they listen to. 00:02:01.651 --> 00:02:09.191 For part one of an epic six and a half hour conversation, please welcome Corey Mahler and Wo from Stone Choir. 00:02:17.671 --> 00:02:20.151 First of all, welcome to all my new listeners. 00:02:20.531 --> 00:02:28.751 If this is your first time here, I begin all of my episodes with an extended monologue to set the stage for the conversation and my guests. 00:02:29.291 --> 00:02:34.111 Please bear with me because I promise that there's a point, and an important one at that. 00:02:34.931 --> 00:02:36.891 So, I'd like to tell you a story. 00:02:37.491 --> 00:02:40.791 I didn't pay any attention at all to the 2016 election. 00:02:41.211 --> 00:02:49.251 I left the United States for South America in March of that year, so I was far too busy on the road to even think about American politics. 00:02:49.651 --> 00:02:53.291 Plus, at the time, I was still a more or less blue-pilled liberal. 00:02:53.731 --> 00:03:00.831 I knew about Jeffrey Epstein and that whole underworld, but I hadn't yet cracked feminism, the New World Order, or anything like that. 00:03:01.291 --> 00:03:05.511 So, as far as politics was concerned, I knew Hillary Clinton would get the nomination. 00:03:05.891 --> 00:03:06.651 Everyone knew it. 00:03:06.951 --> 00:03:12.571 And I just assumed that November 2016 would be her coronation, and I didn't think much about it. 00:03:13.091 --> 00:03:21.811 When Donald Trump got the nomination, I thought that was odd, but from a distance, I just assumed it was part of the American right-wing decline into idiocracy. 00:03:22.351 --> 00:03:34.931 Again, being a blue-pilled liberal at the time, I genuinely believed that red-state Americans were what was wrong with the nation, and that evangelical Christians, and more specifically Southern Baptists, were driving the whole mess. 00:03:35.431 --> 00:03:46.611 So you can imagine my shock and comic surprise at God's goodness and sense of humor when years later on Sunday during service, I realized that I had ended up as a member of an SBC church. 00:03:47.131 --> 00:03:49.251 But that's another story for another time. 00:03:49.731 --> 00:03:50.711 Back to 2016. 00:03:51.411 --> 00:04:00.391 So, from July through November 2016, I was finishing my travels in South America and then on my way to Japan, thinking not at all about the election. 00:04:00.831 --> 00:04:07.451 I did notice two good friends consistently posting on Facebook in support of Trump and getting absolutely dragged over it. 00:04:07.911 --> 00:04:12.511 I also participated in such a dog pile, though not with my friends, but in a men's group. 00:04:12.911 --> 00:04:15.551 Another man I didn't know posted his support for Trump. 00:04:15.931 --> 00:04:19.651 This man was the one guy in a group of hundreds of men who spoke up. 00:04:20.131 --> 00:04:23.251 Then the entire group, including me, landed on him. 00:04:23.611 --> 00:04:25.251 And I can't even say what I did. 00:04:25.811 --> 00:04:30.131 But that was about as much as I thought about or participated in the 2016 election. 00:04:30.471 --> 00:04:31.851 I didn't even vote that year. 00:04:32.271 --> 00:04:37.431 As I said, I was busy and the outcome seemed obvious until the election happened. 00:04:38.091 --> 00:04:41.391 I remember watching it on TV and checking my Facebook feed. 00:04:41.931 --> 00:04:44.471 I, like many, assumed that the outcome was certain. 00:04:44.831 --> 00:04:51.211 But then, one by one, I started watching my hardcore liberal friends in San Francisco begin to freak out. 00:04:51.631 --> 00:04:54.551 I remember one man wrote something like, Hold fast! 00:04:54.831 --> 00:04:57.391 encouraging everyone as if the ship was sinking. 00:04:57.811 --> 00:04:59.531 And then suddenly it was over. 00:05:00.011 --> 00:05:02.231 I think I was watching CNN when they called it. 00:05:02.671 --> 00:05:11.831 I remember being in stunned shock, feeling a note of grief, probably mostly in sympathy with my friends, though also because of the uncertainty Trump's election represented. 00:05:12.371 --> 00:05:13.271 And then I went to sleep. 00:05:13.991 --> 00:05:15.291 And then a funny thing happened. 00:05:15.751 --> 00:05:21.091 Rather than joining my friends, doubling down in opposition to Trump, the thought crossed my mind. 00:05:21.471 --> 00:05:23.971 There must be more going on here than I recognized. 00:05:24.431 --> 00:05:26.491 I wasn't caught up in the election fervor. 00:05:26.751 --> 00:05:28.451 I wasn't wearing my team jersey. 00:05:28.851 --> 00:05:32.771 I was watching my country from afar take a direction I didn't expect. 00:05:33.111 --> 00:05:35.611 Nor did I question the legitimacy of the election. 00:05:36.051 --> 00:05:38.751 I believed that Hillary Clinton would win in a landslide. 00:05:39.031 --> 00:05:45.051 That the outcome apparently was not obvious, said nothing to me about objective reality being wrong. 00:05:45.491 --> 00:05:51.591 Rather, the outcome told me that I was wrong regarding something fundamental about my nation, though I didn't know what. 00:05:52.191 --> 00:05:56.151 Far more people disagreed with me and my friends than I realized. 00:05:56.631 --> 00:05:58.291 They were not living in my world. 00:05:58.711 --> 00:05:59.671 I was in theirs. 00:06:00.171 --> 00:06:02.531 That meant there was more for me to understand. 00:06:03.151 --> 00:06:03.971 So what did I do? 00:06:04.611 --> 00:06:09.611 I reached out to my two friends on Facebook who had been courageously posting in support of Trump. 00:06:10.151 --> 00:06:12.071 One was a man, the other was a woman. 00:06:12.611 --> 00:06:17.511 What I said to them both was that the election outcome was a surprise and that I didn't understand it. 00:06:17.891 --> 00:06:21.831 I said to them, I have no preconceived notions, no agenda. 00:06:22.231 --> 00:06:23.371 I am a blank slate. 00:06:23.871 --> 00:06:26.151 Please help me understand what just happened. 00:06:26.711 --> 00:06:27.271 And they did. 00:06:27.911 --> 00:06:29.951 The rest, as they say, is history. 00:06:30.531 --> 00:06:36.651 I share that story by way of introduction to how I conduct myself as a man in relation to intellectual inquiry. 00:06:37.051 --> 00:06:44.791 For things that matter, I do not accept as factual or true what other people say about an individual, his beliefs, or his words. 00:06:45.371 --> 00:06:46.931 I go and listen for myself. 00:06:47.451 --> 00:06:49.171 I do not care about being right. 00:06:49.571 --> 00:06:50.671 I care about the truth. 00:06:51.111 --> 00:06:58.851 If the truth makes me wrong, then praise God and hallelujah, I just got a little bit closer to the truth and I didn't need those lies anyway. 00:06:59.311 --> 00:07:01.931 They were only doing me harm, as all lies do. 00:07:02.471 --> 00:07:06.971 This perspective carries on to today and I believe is why I became a Christian. 00:07:07.351 --> 00:07:10.731 I did not accept the truths of Eastern mysticism and the New Age. 00:07:11.131 --> 00:07:15.451 I went around the world to experience them for myself, uncritically even. 00:07:15.871 --> 00:07:21.411 But while on that road, I encountered questions that my fellow believers would not and could not answer. 00:07:21.991 --> 00:07:28.851 I wanted the truth more than I wanted their acceptance, more than I wanted 20 years of my life's pursuits to mean something. 00:07:29.391 --> 00:07:39.891 And so, I stepped across the last border of that land, leaving literally everything behind, wading into the waters of the Spokane River and finding myself in the forgiving arms of Christ. 00:07:40.511 --> 00:07:42.871 I sold all I had and bought the field. 00:07:43.471 --> 00:07:45.251 Four years later, here I am. 00:07:46.151 --> 00:07:56.571 I look back on my life and can see in the long view that this is not any good inherent in me but is in the working of the Holy Spirit that I can trace back to being as young as 11 or 12 years old. 00:07:57.011 --> 00:08:00.911 I suppose if I thought about it or asked my dad, I could go back even further. 00:08:01.331 --> 00:08:07.671 I want to know from myself, not because anyone tells me, because people can and often do get it wrong. 00:08:08.271 --> 00:08:11.691 I am capable of discerning the truth from myself and thus I do. 00:08:12.211 --> 00:08:12.911 I must. 00:08:13.231 --> 00:08:25.811 Because if capable men and yes, women, lack the intellectual, emotional, spiritual and moral courage to confront their errors, then there's no hope for the lesser men and women not to mention children either. 00:08:26.531 --> 00:08:32.151 In today's world, this same attitude I've spent 30 years cultivating is even more desperately needed. 00:08:32.731 --> 00:08:34.611 Everyone wants to tell us everything. 00:08:34.911 --> 00:08:42.991 And with all the information and human history available to us with a few taps of our thumbtips, no one wants us investigating anything. 00:08:43.591 --> 00:08:44.551 And yet we have to. 00:08:44.991 --> 00:08:50.171 Because the lies are deep and thick and sticky, these webs ensnare many of us. 00:08:50.571 --> 00:08:57.731 Which is why we need men to help us cut our way out with the Word of God, the Sword of the Spirit, and its courageous truth. 00:08:58.511 --> 00:09:00.191 Which brings me to my guests this week. 00:09:00.771 --> 00:09:04.871 Their names are Cory Mahler and Woe, the latter of which is a pseudonym. 00:09:05.171 --> 00:09:10.691 And they're the hosts of Stone Choir, an informative, enjoyable, and well-produced podcast. 00:09:11.051 --> 00:09:12.311 Okay, sounds good so far. 00:09:12.771 --> 00:09:14.031 There's just one problem. 00:09:14.451 --> 00:09:21.411 They tackle ideas that a lot of people invested in the success of the regime, whether consciously or otherwise, don't like. 00:09:22.011 --> 00:09:31.111 Over 75 episodes and counting, they've covered a number of different topics, including headship and submission right down to the level of men's and women's biological design. 00:09:31.451 --> 00:09:36.731 They've also covered notions of race, its reality, and the significance of those facts on evangelism. 00:09:37.051 --> 00:09:47.651 They've talked about Christianity and the Jews, conspiracy theories and truth, anonymity, slander, IQ, love, Christian nationalism, forgotten doctrines of scripture, and much more. 00:09:47.971 --> 00:09:58.591 But crucially, one of their most impactful topics is the growing institutional corruption of Christian denominations, in their case, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, or the LCMS. 00:09:59.091 --> 00:10:07.671 Long regarded as one of America's most conservative Christian denominations, it too has fallen prey to wokeness and corruption at apparently the highest levels. 00:10:08.211 --> 00:10:15.871 Woe and Corey watched all this happen in 2020 and 2021, as many of us did in our own way, and they decided to do something about it. 00:10:16.311 --> 00:10:27.271 So they started a podcast called Stone Choir to help clear away false teachings and bad ideas because they saw few others in Christendom, behind the pulpit or otherwise, doing anything at all. 00:10:27.611 --> 00:10:37.871 Then they applied their considerable intelligence to a recent update of the core doctrinal teachings of Lutheranism called the Larger Catechism, and it was as if they had kicked the hornet's nest. 00:10:38.391 --> 00:10:42.831 This led to a sequence of events including doxing, threats of violence, and much more. 00:10:43.311 --> 00:10:44.731 I'll let them share the story. 00:10:45.251 --> 00:10:50.351 But, their story highlights something important that I think should have resonance with every man and woman listening. 00:10:50.851 --> 00:10:52.331 Truth is expensive. 00:10:52.771 --> 00:11:01.131 Proverbs chapter 23 verse 23 says, Buy the truth and sell it not, also wisdom and instruction and understanding. 00:11:01.691 --> 00:11:04.731 If truth were cheap or easy, everyone would profess it. 00:11:05.091 --> 00:11:12.011 If it didn't take courage to share the truth or the intellectual acumen to discern it, we wouldn't value those who speak and write it either. 00:11:12.491 --> 00:11:14.811 But we do, because the truth is rare. 00:11:15.211 --> 00:11:20.331 Today, we may be more saturated with lies than perhaps any other point in human history since Christ. 00:11:20.671 --> 00:11:29.791 And so men are needed to stand up, to speak up, to investigate, and to share what they discover no matter the cost, shining light into the darknesses they can. 00:11:30.291 --> 00:11:33.651 Yes, it's a tall order, and it's a call too many men reject. 00:11:33.991 --> 00:11:42.031 They either shy away from the truth, backing down from the fight, or they go charging into battle like a berserker, rusty swords swinging wildly. 00:11:42.551 --> 00:11:47.771 But the truth we need is more like a scalpel, wielded with precision by deft hands. 00:11:48.231 --> 00:11:53.311 And if you ask me, that is the Stone Choir MO, and that's what makes them dangerous. 00:11:53.831 --> 00:12:00.491 Which is why various forces on the internet made them personas non grata, smearing their names across social media. 00:12:00.891 --> 00:12:05.451 And that's also why, when I first heard about their podcast, I went to listen. 00:12:06.151 --> 00:12:12.491 Like Trump and My Journey to Christ, I didn't accept what I was told as fact simply because I was told it. 00:12:12.931 --> 00:12:14.551 I wanted to know for myself. 00:12:15.211 --> 00:12:25.211 My hope with this interview is that you'll learn what I did, that slander as a weapon is no match for the force of truth and men bold and brilliant enough to wield it. 00:12:25.791 --> 00:12:48.671 In our conversation, we discussed how Corey and Woe met and started Stone Choir, counting the cost for speaking truth, why to investigate where Satan is attacking, the turn upstream and conflict with the LCMS, Woe's doxing and its consequences, why there is no political solution to a creational problem, and finally, finding a courageous church. 00:12:49.111 --> 00:12:54.431 As you heard me say at the outset, this is part one of our conversation, just the first two hours or so. 00:12:54.871 --> 00:13:18.311 You can find the other four and a half hours available for paid subscribers only on my sub stack, in that episode we discuss the four waves of feminism, the two things Satan wants to subvert, differences between the races, why the enemy can't act without human agents, feminism, racism, the Jews and Hitler, and finally, the responsibility that comes with conspiracy information. 00:13:18.991 --> 00:13:26.491 Now after my conversation with Cory and Woe, which you'll hear that I enjoyed very much, I thought hard about whether to release the second segment separately. 00:13:27.111 --> 00:13:31.391 I finally decided that for my audience, it would be best if you bought a ticket to the show. 00:13:31.931 --> 00:13:38.991 We discussed topics that, for the moment, pushed the limits of the Overton window for many, though not all of the participants in the Christian dialogue. 00:13:39.411 --> 00:13:40.971 A month from now, though, who knows? 00:13:41.431 --> 00:13:44.091 So the episode is opt-in, and I hope it's worth it. 00:13:44.491 --> 00:13:45.171 I think it is. 00:13:45.591 --> 00:13:48.031 In fact, I think it's one of my best episodes ever. 00:13:48.531 --> 00:13:59.491 But even if you're uninterested in listening further, I still believe the Stone Choir story has relevance to my listeners, which is one of the many reasons why I decided to release this segment to the public. 00:14:00.031 --> 00:14:10.751 Whatever you think of their ideas, whether you agree with them or not, or whether you ever put on even a single episode of their podcast, I think you'll hear that their intelligence and faithfulness shines through. 00:14:11.171 --> 00:14:16.151 They are nothing if not reasoned, rational, and committed men, no matter what you've heard. 00:14:16.771 --> 00:14:22.671 Plus, if one of my core values is finding the truth for myself, I'd like my listeners to have the same opportunity. 00:14:23.271 --> 00:14:31.471 Again, once you're done with this first segment, you can find the remainder of the interview on Substack at willspenserpod.substack.com. 00:14:32.231 --> 00:14:34.951 If you enjoy the Renaissance of Men podcast, thank you. 00:14:35.351 --> 00:14:40.151 Please leave us a 5-star rating on Spotify and a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. 00:14:40.591 --> 00:14:42.651 If this is your first time here, welcome. 00:14:43.051 --> 00:14:48.291 I release new episodes about the Christian counterculture, masculine virtue, and the family every week. 00:14:49.131 --> 00:14:51.331 And one last thing briefly before we begin. 00:14:51.771 --> 00:14:53.891 We all know how the game is played today. 00:14:54.311 --> 00:15:05.811 So I encourage everyone listening to embrace the truth that agreeing with one thing Corey and Woe have said does not immediately mean that you agree with everything they've ever said on Stone Choir or anywhere else. 00:15:06.311 --> 00:15:08.791 The only package deal in history is the Bible. 00:15:09.191 --> 00:15:11.791 That book, if you don't take it all, you leave it. 00:15:12.311 --> 00:15:17.371 Fallible men like the rest of us, you get to pick and choose, no matter what the Wokesters say. 00:15:17.871 --> 00:15:20.491 Because that is one of the chief tactics of slander. 00:15:20.891 --> 00:15:30.871 With anything any fallible man says, including and especially me, you can take the truth you discern to be accurate and discard the rest without giving it another thought. 00:15:31.491 --> 00:15:34.451 I have freedom of intellectual inquiry, and so do you. 00:15:34.911 --> 00:15:38.711 And I believe our right to free speech includes our right to hear. 00:15:39.371 --> 00:15:45.031 So please welcome this week's guest on the podcast, Corey Mahler and Woe from Stone Choir. 00:15:50.051 --> 00:15:52.651 Woe and Corey, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today. 00:15:53.331 --> 00:15:54.171 Thank you for having me. 00:15:54.671 --> 00:15:55.471 Thank you for having us. 00:15:55.791 --> 00:16:03.571 I've been devouring as much of your content as time allows, and I know that we're going to have a ton of stuff to talk about today. 00:16:04.091 --> 00:16:12.791 But first, I just want to say thank you for all the work that you guys have been putting into your podcast because I don't actually listen to a lot of podcasts, and I've enjoyed yours an immense amount. 00:16:12.811 --> 00:16:13.951 So thank you so much for that. 00:16:14.611 --> 00:16:15.071 You're welcome. 00:16:15.151 --> 00:16:15.891 Glad it paid off. 00:16:16.571 --> 00:16:17.011 Excellent. 00:16:17.771 --> 00:16:27.031 So I think for a start, just for my own personal curiosity, is when did you start the Stone Choir podcast and why? 00:16:27.051 --> 00:16:28.951 And how did you guys meet in the first place? 00:16:28.971 --> 00:16:31.531 Like what was the inspiration behind Stone Choir? 00:16:31.551 --> 00:16:34.111 And then we'll get into some of the stuff with the LCMS as well. 00:16:35.991 --> 00:16:36.931 I'll let you take that one. 00:16:38.131 --> 00:16:41.991 Corey and I have known each other, I don't know, four or five years at this point. 00:16:42.351 --> 00:16:44.811 It's a little hard to say, time's kind of a blur. 00:16:45.611 --> 00:16:48.631 We met as in a group of Lutherans. 00:16:48.771 --> 00:16:55.031 And it's funny, initially we had a number of mutual friends who should have known to introduce us. 00:16:55.051 --> 00:16:58.131 And it took them like two years to unify the groups. 00:16:59.211 --> 00:17:00.271 I honestly don't understand. 00:17:00.291 --> 00:17:06.531 Like one of the things I've always been best at is kind of matchmaking guys who should talk to other guys. 00:17:06.951 --> 00:17:13.371 Even if I don't particularly have something in common with them, I can still understand like this guy needs to talk to this guy because they're gonna love it. 00:17:13.391 --> 00:17:16.051 And so once Corey and I met, I'm like, why didn't you introduce us? 00:17:16.071 --> 00:17:20.451 We're like the same guy just with two kind of weird variations on the same thing. 00:17:20.471 --> 00:17:33.691 So anyway, once we met, we hit it off and we were mostly thinking and talking about theology and Lutheranism in particular in the state of the world and just privately on top of what we would do publicly on Twitter, et cetera. 00:17:34.451 --> 00:17:38.751 And we were both simultaneously observing all the same things. 00:17:39.091 --> 00:17:40.151 We noticed the same stuff. 00:17:41.331 --> 00:17:43.311 And Cory has of course always been Cory J. 00:17:43.331 --> 00:17:44.291 Mahler publicly. 00:17:44.331 --> 00:17:47.411 He's the least pseudonymous man on the internet. 00:17:47.951 --> 00:17:55.031 And it's like he catches a rash of crap for things that someone who's pseudonymous or completely anonymous doesn't. 00:17:55.111 --> 00:18:00.311 You know, when your name is not known, you're somewhat immunized from certain types of attacks. 00:18:00.991 --> 00:18:02.971 And I've always been pseudonymous on the internet. 00:18:02.991 --> 00:18:05.531 We did one of our early episodes talking about pseudonymity. 00:18:05.751 --> 00:18:09.531 Like what's the difference between that sort of conduct? 00:18:09.711 --> 00:18:12.431 Is there a Christian implication to it in various things? 00:18:13.071 --> 00:18:24.171 And for my purposes, I just, as I said before I was doxed and after I was doxed, there's nothing about my background that if you know that, it's gonna really tell you anything more about me. 00:18:24.571 --> 00:18:27.671 Like whatever it is that I have to say, just put out there. 00:18:27.691 --> 00:18:28.971 Like here's what I think. 00:18:29.291 --> 00:18:32.031 I don't have a credential to back it up, take it or leave it. 00:18:33.551 --> 00:18:44.331 And so Corey and I were both observing the same problems in the church and because I wasn't yet, I wasn't public to the point of like using my voice. 00:18:45.171 --> 00:18:48.631 And so I knew that that would be the sort of thing that could potentially get me doxxed. 00:18:49.051 --> 00:18:53.991 I didn't want it for the aggravation and also for the sake of extended family. 00:18:54.011 --> 00:18:57.471 I don't have a wife or kids or anything. 00:18:57.491 --> 00:19:05.611 So like it's not gonna hurt me personally, but it's still disruptive to people you know, when someone's coming after you, the way they come after Corey. 00:19:05.611 --> 00:19:06.851 So there was no upside. 00:19:06.871 --> 00:19:07.851 There was only downside. 00:19:08.271 --> 00:19:17.451 And so for that reason, although we knew for a while that we wanted to do a podcast, like I don't know if we wanted to, we knew there was inevitable we were going to have to. 00:19:17.971 --> 00:19:21.051 And I was kind of waiting to put that off as long as possible. 00:19:21.731 --> 00:19:32.491 And towards the end of the middle of 2022, certain things were happening in the LCMS that made it clear that this, our hands were gonna be forced. 00:19:33.791 --> 00:19:39.271 And so we'd start talking a little more seriously about the idea behind starting a podcast and what will we approach. 00:19:39.471 --> 00:19:48.211 And we finally decided to pull the trigger and we were gonna begin October 21st, 2022, which was Reformation Day. 00:19:48.851 --> 00:19:53.131 And that a couple things happened a few weeks before that and like, okay, we're gonna push up a couple of weeks. 00:19:53.151 --> 00:19:54.751 And so we kind of just hit the ground running. 00:19:54.771 --> 00:19:57.571 So we never wanted to have a podcast. 00:19:57.951 --> 00:20:10.391 We felt that our hands were forced because there were things that were happening in the church and in the world that were either being not addressed correctly, were being misaddressed or were being covered up by people who should have known better. 00:20:11.111 --> 00:20:25.731 And we both been sitting here listening to some other guys in the same space who should have, they certainly do know what's going on, but they either didn't have the aptitude, the courage or the ability to speak up and say the things that we knew that we could say. 00:20:26.091 --> 00:20:27.531 And so finally we're like, you know what? 00:20:27.551 --> 00:20:28.711 No one else is gonna do this. 00:20:29.251 --> 00:20:30.051 We're gonna have to. 00:20:30.291 --> 00:20:32.331 And so that was really the Genesis of Stone Choir. 00:20:32.771 --> 00:20:35.091 And hence the name of, you know, the stones crying out. 00:20:36.771 --> 00:20:37.151 Corey? 00:20:38.331 --> 00:20:57.431 And that essentially covered it, that we really figured that if there were men currently in this space, if we take the term more generally, so the Christian right, say, who took up the mantle and addressed these issues, then we wouldn't necessarily have to do so. 00:20:58.451 --> 00:21:01.011 That was not happening with many of the issues. 00:21:01.031 --> 00:21:22.211 You can tell from some of the topics we've covered on the podcast, we're covering things that other men are simply not covering, particularly Christian men, which is one of the problems that we were seeking to address is that some of these issues were being discussed on the political right, but they were being discussed from an atheist framework, not from a Christian framework. 00:21:22.891 --> 00:21:37.731 And it's necessary to address them from a Christian framework for a number of reasons, but two of the most salient reasons to do it from a Christian perspective is so that other Christian men know these are issues about which Christian men can speak in the public sphere. 00:21:38.731 --> 00:21:54.931 And so that those who look at the church with a little bit of apprehension, perhaps, or disdain in some cases, realize there are actual Christian men who care about these issues and can speak about them truthfully and forcefully, as opposed to what we hear from far too many pulpits these days. 00:21:56.731 --> 00:22:06.731 So, when you stepped up to do this again, specifically, when you say the church, you're talking about the Lutheran church as opposed to just Christendom more broadly? 00:22:08.031 --> 00:22:13.151 When I say the church in this case, I'm talking about the church, uppercase C, the whole church. 00:22:13.391 --> 00:22:25.031 The Lutheran church, specifically, we have problems that we are addressing in the Lutheran church, particularly in the American context, although the problems are similar in other parts of the world that have Lutheran churches as well. 00:22:26.171 --> 00:22:28.631 But I mean the church more generally. 00:22:28.651 --> 00:22:30.531 I mean all Christian men. 00:22:30.551 --> 00:22:48.571 Okay, yeah, I think certainly there are probably a lot of men listening and a lot of men out there today that can relate to that feeling of seeing that there's something wrong, more than one thing, saying that there's many things wrong, that no one is speaking about it, especially on the right from any sort of impactful way. 00:22:48.591 --> 00:22:57.331 And the ones who are speaking about it from an atheist or an even pagan perspective and wondering where are the Christian men speaking up on behalf of these things in the world and the church. 00:22:57.631 --> 00:23:00.851 So I think a lot of men, myself included, actually can relate to that. 00:23:01.251 --> 00:23:09.331 So, but when you started doing it, did you anticipate ahead of time the road that would be ahead? 00:23:09.631 --> 00:23:16.291 And some of the things that we'll get into with the Lutheran church obviously is a big part of that, but did you anticipate running into the headwinds? 00:23:16.791 --> 00:23:18.351 Or did you count the cost, I suppose? 00:23:19.491 --> 00:23:20.071 Absolutely. 00:23:21.291 --> 00:23:22.491