Transcript: Episode 0008

“Neglected Matters: Shaking off the Dust, Usury, Woman and Work, Head Coverings”

This transcript:
  1. Was machine generated.
  2. Has not been checked for errors.
  3. May not be entirely accurate.
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00:00:37 – 00:00:39:	Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast.

00:00:39 – 00:00:41:	I am Corey J. Moller.

00:00:41 – 00:00:43:	And I'm Wo.

00:00:43 – 00:00:50:	Today we're going to be talking about kind of a grab bag of doctrines that are in Scripture

00:00:50 – 00:00:56:	that at one point the church held and then just sort of lost track of.

00:00:56 – 00:01:03:	And today is either actively repudiated them or just sort of forgotten about them or pretends

00:01:03 – 00:01:07:	they don't exist because they're this kind of awkward that you know we have a religion

00:01:07 – 00:01:09:	with some of this baggage.

00:01:09 – 00:01:14:	Following on last week's episode we talked about you know obviously that as Christians

00:01:14 – 00:01:20:	we believe that the whole of Scripture is suitable for reproof and correction of error

00:01:20 – 00:01:22:	and for teaching.

00:01:22 – 00:01:27:	So if there's something in the Bible that's not being taught, that's not okay.

00:01:27 – 00:01:32:	So at the outside I just want to make clear that when Corey and I are focusing on these things

00:01:32 – 00:01:38:	that you don't hear about very much, it's not that we think that well the church doesn't look quite right.

00:01:38 – 00:01:41:	You should focus on all these things instead.

00:01:41 – 00:01:42:	That's not the point.

00:01:42 – 00:01:50:	We're not saying stop talking about the gospel, stop talking about the cross and start talking about these other arguably lesser doctrines.

00:01:50 – 00:02:00:	The point that we are making is that if our claims of truth are true, the Christianity is sourced from God

00:02:00 – 00:02:07:	and is eternal in its nature and unchanging, then if there are doctrines that are blinking in and out of existence

00:02:07 – 00:02:13:	something's wrong between our confession and the Scripture that we claim to hold to.

00:02:13 – 00:02:23:	So today we're going to talk about a handful of not really connected things but they are connected in the sense that we have kind of just let them go by the wayside.

00:02:23 – 00:02:28:	The first doctrine we're going to talk about is the doctrine of shaking the dust off your feet.

00:02:28 – 00:02:35:	As I mentioned a few weeks ago, this is something that Jesus directly commanded and I'll quote that in a second.

00:02:35 – 00:02:41:	And then it appears a couple times in acts where it was followed exactly as Jesus said it.

00:02:41 – 00:02:43:	And then it just kind of vanishes.

00:02:43 – 00:02:46:	I can't remember ever hearing a pastor talk about it.

00:02:46 – 00:02:52:	So we're going to begin there because I think it's one of the most conspicuous examples of something that's clearly given teaching.

00:02:52 – 00:02:59:	We couldn't find examples of it being upheld at any point in church history.

00:02:59 – 00:03:03:	And so that's what he said worth it worth asking why.

00:03:03 – 00:03:14:	So when Jesus sent the 12 out he said, and whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart as you enter the house, greet it.

00:03:14 – 00:03:17:	And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it.

00:03:17 – 00:03:21:	But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.

00:03:21 – 00:03:29:	And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.

00:03:29 – 00:03:37:	Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

00:03:37 – 00:03:46:	There's a passage that's repeated in the synoptic gospels and is told in slightly different ways that in total it makes it very clear that Jesus is saying,

00:03:46 – 00:03:51:	if someone, if you take the gospel to someone and they reject it, you are to curse them.

00:03:51 – 00:03:57:	You are effectively to it, now it's their damnation to withdraw and to take it elsewhere.

00:03:57 – 00:04:02:	Now to us today, that sounds utterly shockingly. That's the antithesis of the gospel.

00:04:02 – 00:04:05:	Like you said, I've never heard a pastor talk about this at all.

00:04:05 – 00:04:11:	But Jesus said it and then here's how the the 12 responded and acts 13.

00:04:11 – 00:04:21:	But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city stirred up prosecution against Paul and Barnabas and drove them out of their district.

00:04:21 – 00:04:30:	But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went on to Iconium and the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

00:04:30 – 00:04:38:	That's interesting because they weren't sad that they had to curse the Jews in that town who rejected the word of God.

00:04:38 – 00:04:48:	They were rejoicing. They were rejoicing that they were persecuted for the sake of Christ and they went on because they had other souls to reach who would not reject the word of God.

00:04:48 – 00:05:00:	So that was their response both to Jesus' command and to actually implementing his command immediately after this was not many years after the command was given.

00:05:01 – 00:05:11:	And again, in Acts 18, when Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word testifying to the Jews that Christ was Jesus.

00:05:11 – 00:05:16:	And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them,

00:05:17 – 00:05:23:	You are blood be on your own heads. I am innocent. From now on, I will go to the Gentiles.

00:05:23 – 00:05:30:	Now, that's even more explicit. He's saying, I brought the gospel. I brought the word of God to you. You refused to listen.

00:05:30 – 00:05:40:	Now, he didn't blaspheme. He didn't say damn you as is recorded in Jude when an angel was striving with the devil. He refused to say damn you.

00:05:40 – 00:05:46:	He said, May the Lord rebuke you. And that's effectively what Paul says here. He says, you're blood be on your own heads.

00:05:46 – 00:05:50:	I'm not guilty of the fact that you're going to hell for rejecting us.

00:05:50 – 00:06:02:	So that's twice in Acts where the disciples, the apostles obeyed exactly what Jesus said to curse those who reject the gospel.

00:06:02 – 00:06:16:	And yet today, the very notion of that really sets our teeth on edge. It's pretty much unthinkable for a Christian to speak in this way in the way that Jesus spoke in the way that the apostles acted.

00:06:16 – 00:06:27:	Well, now that I'm thinking about it, it really ties into a misunderstanding will be charitable that we have in the modern church.

00:06:27 – 00:06:38:	Most people believe that you just keep giving others an infinite number of chances. You keep going back regardless of treatment, response, all of it.

00:06:38 – 00:06:50:	You go back and you give another chance and another chance and another chance. And that's just not how things play out in scripture. And the example that came to mind is probably an obvious one others will have thought of it as well by now.

00:06:50 – 00:07:04:	And that's Pharaoh. God did give Pharaoh chances to repent. Pharaoh could have let the Israelites go. Pharaoh could have seen these mighty works. This is God. This is the Lord God.

00:07:04 – 00:07:15:	Pharaoh didn't do that. But God eventually hardens his heart and confirms him in his sin. So it's not an infinite number of chances that you get at some point.

00:07:15 – 00:07:32:	It's the hardening of the heart of the shaking off the dust from your feet. And we've just totally abandoned that in the modern church. As you said, I've never heard a pastor except when he has read the passage, say those words. And I've never heard anyone teach about it.

00:07:32 – 00:07:41:	And there it is multiple times in scripture. And as you mentioned, we even had trouble trying to find this in the history of the church, not just the modern church.

00:07:41 – 00:07:54:	This is something that we just we run right over it. We encounter in scripture. It's, you know, some people stumble over the truth, but they pick themselves up and carry on their way. And that's just what we've done with this teaching.

00:07:54 – 00:07:58:	But we do find the exact opposite preach today.

00:07:58 – 00:07:59:	Absolutely.

00:07:59 – 00:08:10:	But in the LCMS, Concordia colleges have been closing recently because they've been failures because there have been no, no people wanted to attend anymore.

00:08:10 – 00:08:22:	And two in particular were close, I think in the last five years, first Concordia, Selma, which was a historically black college is one of the earliest ones founded by the LCMS to reach African Americans in the South.

00:08:22 – 00:08:26:	And also the Bronxville College.

00:08:26 – 00:08:38:	Those were close because they were dismal failures. They were dismal failures because those communities to which we had sought to bring the word of God and faithful teaching, roundly rejected it.

00:08:38 – 00:08:49:	They wanted no part in it. And yet for decades, we poured good money after bad into those places because they were black, ignoring places where there were others who perhaps would have heard.

00:08:49 – 00:08:51:	But we never bothered to try.

00:08:51 – 00:08:56:	We continued to scatter good seed on rocky and dead soil.

00:08:56 – 00:09:06:	And when we finally closed them, these two places, Selma and Bronxville, are rallying cries for the racebaders and are unscited who say,

00:09:06 – 00:09:11:	look how racist these Lutherans are that they would close the only two black colleges we have.

00:09:11 – 00:09:16:	Well, yes, we closed them because those black people rejected God.

00:09:16 – 00:09:18:	Why didn't we do it sooner?

00:09:18 – 00:09:25:	Now, for anyone to hear that, like, that's just the most shocking, hateful thing any man could possibly think, let alone say,

00:09:25 – 00:09:32:	and yet how is it different with what Jesus said when you look at Jesus words, let me read them again.

00:09:32 – 00:09:40:	If anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town,

00:09:40 – 00:09:44:	Jesus wasn't talking about a year or five years or a decade or a century.

00:09:44 – 00:09:48:	Jesus said, leave by the sunrise the next day.

00:09:48 – 00:09:51:	You leave the place and you curse them behind you.

00:09:51 – 00:09:54:	Now, I am not advocating.

00:09:54 – 00:09:58:	We are not advocating that you go and you try to share the gospel with someone.

00:09:58 – 00:10:02:	And the first time they reject you, you say, okay, go to hell.

00:10:02 – 00:10:04:	Not remotely what we're saying.

00:10:04 – 00:10:12:	Again, I don't know what to say except that what we are telling people today is literally the opposite of what Jesus said.

00:10:12 – 00:10:15:	And not only won't we say we said, we're going along with it.

00:10:15 – 00:10:18:	So, are we the church or not?

00:10:18 – 00:10:21:	How is this fundamental teaching?

00:10:21 – 00:10:25:	One of these passages in red letters from Jesus, where did it go?

00:10:25 – 00:10:33:	Why is this scene so insignificant that we can not only delete it, but we can then contravene it

00:10:33 – 00:10:37:	in the advancement of modern political goals.

00:10:37 – 00:10:41:	I think that as Christians, we need to face that.

00:10:41 – 00:10:49:	And again, the reason I gave the preface at the beginning of this episode is we're not saying that I want to be a church where we immediately go to people

00:10:49 – 00:10:54:	and if they don't like what we say, you just turn tail and say, we'll screw those guys.

00:10:54 – 00:10:56:	Not the point at all.

00:10:56 – 00:11:02:	Obviously, there are people that need time to hear, but what do you do with this?

00:11:02 – 00:11:07:	You have to do something as a Christian other than ignore it or contraband it.

00:11:07 – 00:11:11:	And yet today, those are the only two options we've been given.

00:11:11 – 00:11:16:	Cory and I were talking about these things today because I think maybe there's a third option.

00:11:16 – 00:11:20:	Maybe we don't ignore scripture. Maybe we don't contradict scripture.

00:11:20 – 00:11:22:	Maybe we listen to it.

00:11:22 – 00:11:30:	And if scripture says that we have actually been conducting ourselves in sinful ways, even when we did it with a clean conscience, maybe we should take another look.

00:11:30 – 00:11:35:	Maybe that rebuke and reproof and correction of error applies to us too.

00:11:35 – 00:11:39:	Because if it doesn't, then it means that we're without sin.

00:11:39 – 00:11:43:	And scripture says something about people who believe that as well.

00:11:43 – 00:11:49:	And we should also bear in mind we are actually causing harm to some of these individuals.

00:11:49 – 00:11:51:	Because what does it say in Mark?

00:11:51 – 00:11:56:	It further goes on to say that you're shaking off the dust as a testimony against them.

00:11:57 – 00:12:08:	If you go to someone repeatedly and he repeatedly rejects the word of God, that is worse for him than if he had heard it once or never.

00:12:08 – 00:12:12:	Because that is now high-handed impenitent sin.

00:12:12 – 00:12:16:	And so every time he hears the gospel and rejects it, that's worse.

00:12:16 – 00:12:22:	He is making his eternity worse. You are facilitating his making his eternity worse.

00:12:23 – 00:12:26:	And so we have to bear in mind what exactly it is that we're doing.

00:12:26 – 00:12:34:	We're not really serving God when we're going out and repeatedly confirming the impenitent in their sins.

00:12:34 – 00:12:36:	We're not making anything better for anyone.

00:12:36 – 00:12:42:	We are making it worse specifically for the person we are pretending to attempt to reach.

00:12:42 – 00:12:48:	And we're doing it for two reasons that are the second topic we're going to talk about.

00:12:49 – 00:12:53:	We want to give a win some witness and we don't ever, ever, ever want to hate.

00:12:53 – 00:13:01:	Because those are the new commandments of the church that while there's scripture or warrant to some degree,

00:13:01 – 00:13:07:	the warrant that is provided by those who advocate them isn't fundamentally scripture.

00:13:07 – 00:13:12:	In fact, in many ways, it's contradictory to what the word says about hate and winsiveness.

00:13:12 – 00:13:17:	Well, in the case of winsiveness, I actually have my ESV concordance right here.

00:13:17 – 00:13:21:	So I'll go ahead and try to find that for us.

00:13:21 – 00:13:26:	Oh, the word horror certainly appears a lot in scripture.

00:13:26 – 00:13:28:	Well, that's not very winsome.

00:13:28 – 00:13:35:	Well, almost two pages there actually, horror, horrible, but that's a topic for another day.

00:13:35 – 00:13:47:	So here we have win, wins, wine, wink, winnow, winter, weird.

00:13:47 – 00:13:52:	The word winsome doesn't appear a single time in scripture and yet I constantly hear it.

00:13:52 – 00:13:56:	Not so much from LCMS pastors, although every now and then I do.

00:13:56 – 00:14:00:	But this is an evangelical thing in many ways.

00:14:00 – 00:14:03:	But the word literally doesn't appear.

00:14:03 – 00:14:06:	And for those who think I'm playing fun little word games with the ESV,

00:14:06 – 00:14:09:	I encourage you to go look at strongs for the KJV.

00:14:09 – 00:14:11:	It's free. It's online.

00:14:11 – 00:14:18:	So this is just something that we've, well, not we, but we as the church as it were,

00:14:18 – 00:14:24:	have made up out of whole cloth because you have the verses that tell you to be persuasive,

00:14:24 – 00:14:27:	to be ready and willing to give an answer.

00:14:27 – 00:14:34:	But what winsome has come to mean in the church today is be nice.

00:14:34 – 00:14:36:	It's just another way of saying, don't be mean.

00:14:36 – 00:14:38:	Don't tell people their sinners.

00:14:38 – 00:14:44:	It's just antinominalism and it's all, it's not even gospel because they aren't really hearing the gospel

00:14:44 – 00:14:46:	if they never hear the law.

00:14:46 – 00:14:52:	But it's just be nice to people and then maybe at some point slip in a little bit of Jesus.

00:14:52 – 00:15:00:	I'm just bringing up the verse and Titus, which is the least win some thing you could say to somebody.

00:15:00 – 00:15:06:	There are a lot of good examples of not so win some in the modern sense, things in Scripture.

00:15:06 – 00:15:09:	One of the credence, a prophet of their own said,

00:15:09 – 00:15:12:	credence are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.

00:15:12 – 00:15:14:	This testimony is true.

00:15:14 – 00:15:19:	Therefore, rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith,

00:15:19 – 00:15:24:	not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and commands of people who turn away from the truth.

00:15:24 – 00:15:31:	Rebuking sharply is, it's pretty much forbidden by internet Christians, by e-Christians,

00:15:31 – 00:15:39:	by people who proudly wave the flag of their faith while proclaiming words that are directly contradictory to Scripture

00:15:39 – 00:15:42:	and seeking to buy consciences with they do so.

00:15:42 – 00:15:53:	Now, the case to be made for the notion of whimsomeness is that you shouldn't behave in such a way that brings ill repute to the faith.

00:15:53 – 00:15:57:	And Scripture says that repeatedly, and we agree with that.

00:15:57 – 00:16:02:	I personally do not have a clean mouth in private.

00:16:02 – 00:16:08:	We keep this podcast clean, so as not to give offense, and so as not to be shameful.

00:16:08 – 00:16:12:	Now, that's not me pretending that that is not one of my sins.

00:16:12 – 00:16:21:	It's demonstrating to the world and to myself that I can be better than I am, and that I sometimes even try to be.

00:16:21 – 00:16:27:	And so, the notion of giving a whimsomeness is not a bad thing per se.

00:16:27 – 00:16:34:	The problem is that it becomes a binding spell that just gets cast by these people into discourse.

00:16:34 – 00:16:40:	Whenever someone says something that upsets them, suddenly the whimsomeness command has been violated.

00:16:40 – 00:16:49:	Like, well, if Scripture says that some people should be sharply rebuked, maybe we need to discuss when the sharp rebuke is to come.

00:16:49 – 00:16:55:	And how many times the rebuke may be given gently before it must be given sharply.

00:16:55 – 00:17:01:	Again, these are questions that we would have faithful pastors discussing if they could even get into the fight to begin with.

00:17:02 – 00:17:15:	But when the only discussions and accusations are coming from those who seek to silence dissent, where the dissent is coming from Scripture, we frankly have bigger problems than people's tone.

00:17:15 – 00:17:30:	And I think that's what it boils down to is that there are people who want to tone police, and I want to call things hateful, because as long as you're focused on the emotional content of the disagreement, you're distracted from the fact that the disagreement is about what's in Scripture.

00:17:30 – 00:17:36:	And you and I quarry are always focused on Scripture, and we will vigorously defend Scripture.

00:17:36 – 00:17:45:	And I generally try to be nice and to be polite and be direct and to the point at the beginning with someone.

00:17:45 – 00:17:53:	But if someone comes back to me with slander and appropriate and disgust, I'm not going to back down.

00:17:54 – 00:18:03:	And that makes them even angrier and more filled with rage because they're used to their name calling silencing those who would question them.

00:18:03 – 00:18:08:	And when the name calling spells don't work, it just gets nastier and nastier.

00:18:08 – 00:18:17:	And it's unfortunate that the observer seeing, you know, particularly conduct online where you see people talking back and forth.

00:18:17 – 00:18:30:	And if things, if the tone turns ugly and observer who has not paid attention from the beginning will just assume that it's a bad scene and it's shameful and it never should have happened.

00:18:30 – 00:18:34:	And they won't bother to unwind. Where did the evil enter the discussion?

00:18:34 – 00:18:42:	Where did the slander enter the discussion? Where did the dispute of Scripture enter into the discussion because that is where the sin begin?

00:18:42 – 00:18:48:	There's a sharp, sharp rebuke that follows someone blaspheming God.

00:18:48 – 00:18:53:	That's not sin. That's obedience to God. And that should be present.

00:18:53 – 00:18:59:	Now the degree again to which you rebuke someone should be a function of the situation and perhaps the context.

00:18:59 – 00:19:10:	But the rebuke needs to come. And just as you mentioned a minute ago in the case where we go back and we go back and we go back to people who roundly reject God entirely.

00:19:10 – 00:19:17:	That is to their condemnation. The same thing is true if you fail to rebuke someone in those circumstances. That's exactly what's going wrong.

00:19:17 – 00:19:26:	Failing to rebuke is not Christian. Now the fact that Scripture says rebuke is not licensed for someone just be a jerk.

00:19:26 – 00:19:36:	But it's also not licensed for someone to be a coward and to say nothing when the faith is on the line and when God's word is on the line.

00:19:36 – 00:19:43:	And we need as Christians to find the balance between those two things. I'm not saying balance in some sort of centrist way.

00:19:43 – 00:19:50:	But if you can follow off either side of the horse, let's stay on the horse, but the horse involves rebuking error.

00:19:50 – 00:19:55:	It sometimes involves speech that is not winsome. It sometimes involves polemics.

00:19:55 – 00:19:59:	And if that is obedience to God then we're going to obey.

00:19:59 – 00:20:12:	And if you want to be involved in the discussions where there are sharp rebukes and polemics involved and you don't like the tone, get involved and use the tone that you want to see used.

00:20:12 – 00:20:18:	Because your absence allows those who do things in ways you don't like to define the terms of the discussion.

00:20:18 – 00:20:28:	And if Cory and I are doing it wrong, then pastors who agree with these things who can say things better than us need to get in front of these things and say them.

00:20:28 – 00:20:40:	We're crying out of stones. We're not crying out as pastors. We are men who do not have a vocation to rebuke or correct error in the sense that a pastor does.

00:20:40 – 00:20:50:	And we're doing it precisely because it's not being done elsewhere. So I'm happy to step back and to let those who are called to rebuke to do so.

00:20:50 – 00:21:04:	But if they're not going to do it, it's going to happen. And I will do it with a clean conscience. And with God as my judge, because I answered him, I don't answer to someone who was offended or upset by the tone of my voice when I said something.

00:21:04 – 00:21:14:	A lot of the problem stems from the fact that modern pastors and just modern men in general don't want to be confrontational or controversial.

00:21:14 – 00:21:22:	And when it comes to the church, when it comes to scripture, also politics, but that's a discussion for another time, another place.

00:21:22 – 00:21:34:	If you are never controversial, if you are never confrontational, well, one, you have the friendship with the world issue, which we'll get into if not in this episode then, another one in this series.

00:21:34 – 00:21:38:	But you also have the issue of you are just slowly losing.

00:21:38 – 00:21:48:	All you've done is seed the field you've given up and the world, sin, death and the devil are going to flood in and take over that field.

00:21:48 – 00:21:55:	And that's what so many modern Christians have done. They've just totally abandoned the field. They're entirely derelict in their duty.

00:21:55 – 00:22:04:	And it brings to mind some of the things we've discussed when it comes to what could uncharitably be called a witch test.

00:22:04 – 00:22:20:	But if you make two offensive statements and one is outright blasphemous and one is simply strongly against the morice of our current culture, most people and including most pastors will react more strongly to the second.

00:22:20 – 00:22:30:	You can tell someone, Jesus Christ is not the son of God. He is the first of creation. He is the greatest creation.

00:22:30 – 00:22:41:	And Christians will react to that. That's outright blasphemous. If you say that seriously, they will react less strongly to that than if you say something that is simply not politically correct.

00:22:41 – 00:22:56:	And that's a very real problem in the church. Winselness is not the standard of what is true or what is right. Truth is, something is true or it is false, and it's not a matter of whether or not it is said in a pleasant way.

00:22:56 – 00:23:06:	And quite frankly, I think men in general should learn to be a little more combative when it comes to these things, perhaps locate, acquire, spine, whatever it takes.

00:23:06 – 00:23:20:	But specifically in the case of pastors, one thing that comes to mind when we're talking about this, would be Ezekiel, and I'm sure any pastors listening probably already know what paragraph I'm about to read.

00:23:21 – 00:23:33:	And at the end of seven days, the word of the Lord came to me, son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me.

00:23:33 – 00:23:48:	If I say to the wicked, you shall surely die, and you give him no warning nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way in order to save his life. That wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

00:23:48 – 00:23:58:	But if you warn the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

00:23:58 – 00:24:14:	Again, if a righteous person turns from his righteousness and commits injustice, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die, because you have not warned him, he shall die for his sin, and his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered.

00:24:14 – 00:24:27:	But his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the righteous person not to sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he took warning, and you will have delivered your soul.

00:24:27 – 00:24:40:	Now, of course, this applies to Christian men generally, but this applies specifically to pastors, because pastors are the watchman, the shepherd, for the house of Israel, for the church.

00:24:40 – 00:24:50:	And so they are going to be held to this standard, and so when there are things in Scripture that they simply ignore, gloss over, refuse to talk about, shove under the rug.

00:24:50 – 00:24:56:	One day they will answer to God at the strict judgment for what they did and what they failed to do.

00:24:56 – 00:25:06:	And that passage from Ezekiel, which Paul certainly knew well, is exactly what he was referencing in Acts 18, when he said, your blood be on your own heads, I am innocent.

00:25:06 – 00:25:19:	He knew what he was talking about. He was referring to that. He proclaimed the word of God faithfully, and those who rejected it are damned of their own accord. He did not fail in his duty in his office. He upheld it.

00:25:19 – 00:25:27:	And he upheld it by cursing them, and by turning his back on them, and by leaving, and by going to the Gentiles, who would ultimately hear him.

00:25:28 – 00:25:42:	The windsomeness question is tied really directly to love and hate, and how really the windsomeness question is a, it's emotional content question.

00:25:42 – 00:25:49:	It becomes not, as you said, not about truth or falsity. It becomes about did people, someone's feelings get hurt?

00:25:50 – 00:25:58:	Because if someone's feelings got hurt, if they felt excluded, or if they felt like they weren't understood, something really bad has happened.

00:25:58 – 00:26:06:	There's never any question that, well, did they lie? Did they deceive? Did they falsely speak about what God said?

00:26:06 – 00:26:18:	That should be the greater concern for the Christian, because yes, if you're harming someone emotionally in a way that causes them not to be able to hear the truth,

00:26:18 – 00:26:33:	you can certainly do that wrong. But the flip side of that is that if hearing the truth harms them emotionally, they're evil people, and you need to break them with the law, and that's going to hurt.

00:26:33 – 00:26:46:	When, when iron sharpens iron, there's sparks, and there's heat. That's what should, should happen when men discuss these things, so that the truth may be proven by that which survives the discussion.

00:26:47 – 00:27:00:	And emotion and feelings shouldn't have anything to do with it, and yet these questions get cloaked under the misapprehension of what love means.

00:27:00 – 00:27:11:	And this is really probably an episode unto itself, but just briefly, the notion of Christian love today has been co-opted by Satan.

00:27:11 – 00:27:31:	You know, I've mentioned before, the love is love slogan that basically encompasses all manner of sexual depravity under the sun, things that are unthinkable and unrepeatable are called love, and it's hate if you don't uphold that sort of love.

00:27:31 – 00:27:49:	Well, is that from God? That's fundamentally the question, because love is one of the properties of God. It flows from him. God does not have love. God is love. It flows out of his nature. It is part of his nature.

00:27:49 – 00:28:05:	And the thing that Christians don't want to understand, or don't even notice in Scripture, is how frequently the polarity of the words that are being used makes clear what's going on.

00:28:05 – 00:28:33:	One example of this is in the Old Testament, there are various passages where God calls things abominations, and it's phrased in one of three ways. God will say that something is an abomination period, or he will say it is an abomination unto him, or the third option is he will say it shall be an abomination unto you, and in those cases he was referring specifically to the Israelites.

00:28:33 – 00:28:48:	Now, the first two are synonymous. For God to say that's an abomination, or say that's an abomination to me, means exactly the same thing. For God to say that's an abomination to you means something completely different.

00:28:48 – 00:29:03:	And this is made clear in acts when Peter had the vision where God told him to kill and to eat unclean animals, and he was horrified. He said, Lord, I've never eaten anything unclean. Nothing has ever touched my lips. It was unclean.

00:29:03 – 00:29:17:	And God said to him that everything that I have made is clean, which is consistent with what said in Genesis chapters one and two, that God saw that it was very good. God created nothing unclean.

00:29:17 – 00:29:46:	And so when people, particularly non-Christians, or people who think they're Christian, but they don't really have the Holy Spirit when they're reading Scripture, when they look at those passages in Exodus and Leviticus and elsewhere, and see God saying that shellfish are unclean or abominations, or two kinds of fabric woven together or an abomination, they ignore the two whom, because in each of those passages where God is saying this created thing is an abomination,

00:29:46 – 00:30:14:	God says very specifically every time this shall be an abomination unto you, oh Israel. Now what does that mean? Abomination, it's tied to aborance. It's tied to revulsion. The response that you should have to an abomination should be as though you just smelled a cadaver. It should be something so putrid and vile and contrary to your essence.

00:30:14 – 00:30:30:	Do you have to flee the room and try not to throw up? That's what an abomination is. Now that's the reason that Peter had that response when God said, hey, eat this stuff. He was horrified. He wanted to flee. I would never do that. It's revolting.

00:30:30 – 00:30:50:	And God clarified that no, that was within the ceremonial law to preserve Israel as a people unto himself, but it did not change the nature of shellfish or polyester or any of the other things that are used as memes today to either illustrate the goddess capricious or to illustrate that Christianity is just stupid.

00:30:50 – 00:31:10:	When God says something is an abomination to him, it means exactly what I just said about putressants in a corpse. That is the reaction that we should all have to anything that is an abomination to God. And that includes things like sodomy. It includes things like usury, which we'll talk about here in a minute.

00:31:10 – 00:31:36:	But those things God says are an abomination unto him that he is revolted by them. Now that's the flip side of love that is hate. Godly hate is against that which is contrary to God's nature. It is a very crucial distinction that Christians don't really think about and don't understand.

00:31:36 – 00:31:56:	When we hear terms like love and hate, we hear emotion. We hear someone talking about feelings. That's not what God is talking about. He's not talking about feelings. When he says I love something or I hate something, he is saying this thing is perfectly in accord with my nature and my desire or he's saying the opposite.

00:31:56 – 00:32:13:	Now, when God so loved us, it was in spite of our fallen nature, but it was for that very reason that he gave us Christ's sacrifice on the cross so that covered in Christ's blood, we were restored to the perfect nature that he loved in the first place.

00:32:13 – 00:32:27:	So it's not contradictory to say that God hates us according to our sin and yet loves us according to who he made us to be. And God does hate our sin and he hates us for sinning.

00:32:27 – 00:32:45:	And he also simultaneously loves us because we were created in his image before it fell and he loved us so much that he sacrificed his only son on the cross to fix it. That is love. That is his love for us and his love for creation.

00:32:45 – 00:33:00:	The hate is equally there and when people, when Christians talk about hate, we don't really talk about it in a scriptural way, but we should think of hate in terms of that which is contrary to God's nature, that which is a warrant.

00:33:00 – 00:33:15:	So when there is a sawdermite on Twitter who is embraced and not criticized or whatever, like anything that God finds a warrant, anything that is sinful, and that's the thing, like there are things that are particularly egregious to God.

00:33:15 – 00:33:31:	I think perhaps the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the first example of this. God didn't use this exact word, but he effectively said, that fruit shall be in abomination to you. It's not for you. You don't touch it. It's not yours.

00:33:31 – 00:33:46:	It wasn't that it was unclean as that God had not given it to him. Perhaps he hadn't given it to him yet. We don't know what it would have played out. Maybe that fruit would have given it to him after they'd been taught. We'll never know or maybe we'll know in heaven.

00:33:46 – 00:33:59:	We're not going to know in this world because Adam went the other way. He embraced the abomination that God had outlined and he became an abomination to God by doing it and God had to kill him.

00:33:59 – 00:34:15:	And God had to kill every one of us so that we would die so that we could be redeemed because that's what that's what Genesis says when God cast them out of the garden. It was so that they would die both as punishment and to make their redemption possible.

00:34:15 – 00:34:44:	So the hatred of the evil and the love of the object of God's creation occur at the same time in the fallen world. And God's love is to redeem that which he hates according to his perfect nature and to remove all of the hateful things, all of the abominations from the world so that when the New Heavens and the New Earth are created, there will be only things which accord with God's perfect will.

00:34:44 – 00:35:00:	And there will be no more hate because there will be nothing left that is contrary to God's nature. And that's a fundamental distinction between love and hate. It's not emotional. It's whether or not something is contrary to God's eternal will.

00:35:00 – 00:35:17:	In the modern sense, in modern usage, the term love is very much akin, is of a kind with the issue of whimsomeness we were just discussing because love today, what modern men mean when they use it is permissiveness.

00:35:17 – 00:35:33:	It means I let you do whatever makes you happy makes you feel good and you do the same in return. It's permissiveness. And of course, you're also supposed to approve of it because that approval additionally makes that person happy and feel good.

00:35:33 – 00:35:44:	And that's why it often comes up with the issue of sodomy. So Leviticus 1822, you shall not lie with a man as with a woman. It is an abomination.

00:35:44 – 00:35:57:	And so you mentioned the revulsion that Christians should have two things that are an abomination and normal men have an inherent revulsion to male homosexuality.

00:35:57 – 00:36:11:	And it is the kind of reaction that you have to, as you said, a corpse or rotting meat or rancid garbage. That is the actual visceral reaction that functioning men have to sodomy to male homosexuality.

00:36:11 – 00:36:21:	And that is correct. That is how Christians should respond to these things because it is an abomination. In and of itself, it is a wicked, evil thing.

00:36:21 – 00:36:32:	It is something that God detests that God hates. And so as Christians, we should hate it because we are supposed to hate the things that God hates and love the things that God loves.

00:36:33 – 00:36:45:	And that is just not what is meant by love or even hate these days. Again, love is permissiveness and hate is just being mean because that is the cardinal sin.

00:36:45 – 00:36:55:	The cardinal virtue is niceness and the cardinal sin is being mean, is meanness. That is how the modern world functions. And that is just nowhere in Scripture.

00:36:56 – 00:36:58:	It is not really Christianity feminized.

00:36:58 – 00:37:10:	Oh yes, it is absolute. That is why so many men leave the church because if you have a pastor who stands up there and just tells you to be nice all day, what does that have to do with anything of any importance or value?

00:37:10 – 00:37:20:	If women want to be nice all day, fine. That is different. There are different things in the nature of men, the nature of women, masculinity, femininity.

00:37:20 – 00:37:32:	But if Christianity is just being nice, I can get that anywhere else. Christianity is not a matter of being nice. It is a matter of the truth. It is a matter of we serve the one true God.

00:37:32 – 00:37:47:	That is what Christianity is. And again, we could talk about the little games that modern translations play with do-loss because that is related to serving the one true God, but that is a discussion for another episode.

00:37:48 – 00:37:57:	The niceness thing and the fact that girls are much more focused on harmony is a function of their domain.

00:37:57 – 00:38:06:	You don't want strife in your home. You want everyone to get along. You want there to be accord. You want there to be agreement. You want peace and quiet.

00:38:06 – 00:38:23:	And that is a blessing when you have it. Scripture is clear about that. But to apply those same rules to when there is a tranny drag demon story hour at your local library for children, the time for niceness is over.

00:38:23 – 00:38:45:	And it is not a domain for women to do anything. The women should stay home and the men should go out and should get angry. They should be revolted. They should be filled with a righteous, perfect hatred. Scripture uses the term perfect hatred in Psalm 139 where it specifically talks about God's enemies.

00:38:45 – 00:39:10:	An enemy friend enemy thing is another thing that we just get wrong. Like we're living in a post Mr. Rogers version of Christianity where Mr. Rogers went around and like his catchphrase was won't you be my neighbor as though neighbor were a sort of sanctified emotional feeling or bond.

00:39:10 – 00:39:29:	That's pure nonsense. Neighbor has to do with your physical location. The question in the good Samaritan parable, who is my neighbor? What did God say? He said the guy who's right in front of you. It had nothing to do with the race of the man or the difference in their race.

00:39:29 – 00:39:38:	It was the fact that the man who was injured was directly in front of them. They were neighbors because they were adjacent. Those words are synonyms.

00:39:38 – 00:39:54:	And so when Mr. Rogers came along and said, well, anyone can be my neighbor if I like them. That's not what neighbor means. But that shifting of the over to the window like we talked about last last week, well suddenly everyone in the world is your neighbor.

00:39:54 – 00:40:19:	If you like them, if you're handsome, if you love them enough, then they're all your neighbors. And then the word means nothing because if the man 6,000 miles away is my neighbor just as much as the man who lives 300 yards away, where is my duty? If my duty is equally to both of them, I can't do the same things for the man 6000 miles away is the man 300 yards away.

00:40:19 – 00:40:43:	But that's what that premise is telling me and where am I going to spend my energy? I'm going to focus on the guy further away because you know what I can write checks and I can tweet and I can do really lazy stuff to help quote unquote that guy who's 6,000 miles away. Meanwhile, my neighbor has a broken leg and needs help around the house. And I didn't even know because I haven't got bothered to talk to him in three months.

00:40:43 – 00:41:04:	But since the guy in Africa is just as much as my neighbor is he is and I'm doing something for the other guy, you know, I've done my job. I've taken care of my neighbor. No, that that's pure evil. That's that's a redefinition of a term that actually meant something. And when we let it cease to mean something, it opened the door for Satan.

00:41:04 – 00:41:25:	CS Lewis is a terrible theologian and people who like him generally have awful theological views, but he was a decent fiction writer. And yes, yeah, there's a there's a passage in the screw tape letters that's brilliant where the demon who is charged with trying to steal this man's soul did precisely this. He tried to make the man's affinity

00:41:26 – 00:41:52:	greater for the man who is so far away that he can never actually do anything for him than for the man right in front of him because the demon knew that that was the way to separate his soul from God because God wants you to look after the person right in front of you. It doesn't matter if you like them. It doesn't matter if you're different than them. If they're in front of you in that moment, they're your neighbor and you take care of them in that moment.

00:41:52 – 00:42:21:	Now that also doesn't imply that neighbor is a permanent state of affairs when the Samaritan found the man on the road. He took him to an innkeeper and gave him some money and said, take care of the guy. I got to go. And I'll pay you more if you need more when I come back. And they cease to be neighbors. He did his duty to him by taking care of his physical needs as immediate needs. But he didn't say, hey, come live in my house. Well, we'll be neighbors forever now. I was like, no.

00:42:22 – 00:42:39:	The adjacency, the physical proximity in that moment was God giving him a chance to obey God by tending to the one who is in need. Just as God tends to all of our needs. That is the lesson. The lesson is absolutely not that every man on earth is my neighbor.

00:42:39 – 00:42:48:	Well, now we've gone and done. We've attacked Mr. Rogers and everyone loves him. But of course they love him because they don't know anything about Christianity.

00:42:48 – 00:42:58:	Yeah. So they think that he was a great Christian because he was nice. Yeah. He's peak wensiness. He's the poster child for wensiness. He's what?

00:42:58 – 00:43:09:	He's what everyone today thinks Christianity is supposed to look and sound like. And yes, he was meek and he was gentle and he was lugging, loving to children. That's wonderful. That is good.

00:43:09 – 00:43:19:	But that is not the totality of the Christian life. If there's a drag queen story hour, a your local library, you don't send Mr. Rogers.

00:43:19 – 00:43:26:	You send one someone who has all the qualities that frankly Mr. Rogers lacked because he was not a complete man.

00:43:26 – 00:43:33:	And maybe the man who can get pissed off and who can shout and get in someone's face is not also a complete man if he can also be gentle.

00:43:33 – 00:43:40:	But that doesn't make his qualities less sanctified, less Christian than the things that Mr. Rogers was missing.

00:43:40 – 00:43:53:	And again, these are the conversations that are that are missing from the Christian faith today because as the Overton window was shifted and Christianity was subtly redefined to be about what's nice and what's loving.

00:43:53 – 00:44:02:	And as you said, utterly tolerant and permissive ways where Christianity means giving a license to the world to do that, which it's already doing.

00:44:02 – 00:44:11:	And then kind of trying to explain, well, maybe there's a better way. Like, no, what you're doing in your bedroom makes me puke. It's vile.

00:44:11 – 00:44:20:	And you had mentioned the differences. When something is an abomination to God, that means it's contrary to nature.

00:44:20 – 00:44:32:	And there are numerous places in scripture where it is made clear that even pagans understand this. And that's absolutely the case. You don't need to be a Christian to be revolted by the behavior of two sotomites if you see it.

00:44:32 – 00:44:47:	And that is a human reaction. And it's not a sinful reaction. That's the distinction. We have we have a human nature that is in accord with God's will. And we have a fallen nature that is the enemy of God's will.

00:44:47 – 00:45:00:	Both of them simultaneously, because while the image of God was damaged, it was not utterly removed. Our will is set against God's will by virtue of our sinful inheritance.

00:45:00 – 00:45:13:	But that doesn't make us utterly blind and deaf to God's will as its manifest in creation. And so there are some things that are worse since than others.

00:45:13 – 00:45:26:	The man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has sinned. He has committed a damnable sin. But because he desired that, which was not his, because she's not his wife.

00:45:26 – 00:45:40:	So his sin is in accord with his nature as a man. And it is contrary to his sanctified nature because it was misdirected.

00:45:40 – 00:45:54:	So the element that was a sin was not that he desired a woman, but he desired a woman who is not given to him for a man to desire another man violates two different principles.

00:45:54 – 00:46:08:	One, he's desiring that, which is not given to him. And two, he's desiring that, which is fundamentally contrary to the nature of the universe, which is contrary to God's design. That is a far worse sin.

00:46:08 – 00:46:21:	And Christians need to understand that there are worse sins. Scripture is replete with examples where God says the greater sin is yours, the lesser sin is yours. That doesn't mean that all sins are not damning.

00:46:21 – 00:46:36:	The sin that dams us all is that Adam ate the wrong piece of fruit. It's the least significant sin probably in the history of all sins. It's hard to sin a sin that's less sinful than that. And yet it dams us all. We all die because of it.

00:46:36 – 00:46:49:	So saying that one sin is more sinful than another is not saying that well, you know, maybe that's okay. You can do that and it's not a big deal. They're all a big deal. Some are worse deals than others.

00:46:49 – 00:47:05:	And if Christians cannot speak in that way, you cannot possibly reach the man who is behaving in a way that is destroying both his body and his soul, which is how how Romans begins that they were given over to their nature because it was so abhorrent.

00:47:05 – 00:47:19:	And it's okay for Christians to talk this way. It's necessary for Christians to talk this way appropriately at the right time and in the right place and with the right words.

00:47:19 – 00:47:33:	It is not okay for Christians to refuse to talk this way at all and to say, oh, well, you sin and I sin in world centers. Thank God for Jesus. No, absolutely not. Some sins are worse than others and they're physically destructive to those who are doing them.

00:47:33 – 00:47:45:	The man who looks at a girl with a lust and his heart has sinned. He's not destroyed anything. All if he marries that girl, he can look at her with lust for the rest of his life and that is perfectly sanctified obedience to God.

00:47:45 – 00:48:05:	The man who looks with lust and his heart and another man can only ever bring destruction and damnation by that act. There's no possible way to sanctify it. It can only be sanctified by its complete destruction of the desire and of the sinful impetus to do that. There's no way in which that can be sanctified.

00:48:05 – 00:48:12:	The lust of a man for a woman is sanctified when it is with the balance of matrimony and that's the fundamental difference.

00:48:12 – 00:48:24:	And to say that all sins are equal is to deny one of the central tenets of the faith as goes back to what we were talking about in past episodes about the Lutheran focus on justification.

00:48:24 – 00:48:39:	We get sanctification right and then we kill everything else in the Christian life with it. Yes, if you sin once, if you don't quote unquote sin at all but you were born with sin, you're still damned. That's not the proper way to look at it but some people think that way.

00:48:39 – 00:48:49:	Even if for the sake of argument a man lived a perfect life because he was born a man, he would still be damned because he inherited sin.

00:48:49 – 00:48:56:	And yet the sins that occur in the human life can be worse, some can be worse than others.

00:48:56 – 00:49:05:	And if we can't speak in that way, we can't warn those of their tremendous wickedness. It goes back to what Jesus said when he sent the twelfth out.

00:49:05 – 00:49:15:	That passage said, truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

00:49:15 – 00:49:24:	Now, that's Jesus testifying to the fact that some sins are worse than others. The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were worse than the sins of their neighbors.

00:49:24 – 00:49:30:	You can tell because God didn't destroy their neighbors. Those cities were wiped off the map and not other cities.

00:49:30 – 00:49:42:	It was a worse sin and it was destroyed in that manner. And yet God says that these towns that reject his apostles are even more wicked than Sodom and Gomorrah because they have heard the word and they have refused to believe.

00:49:42 – 00:49:48:	And that is a worse sin than an abomination. That is how Christians speak of these things.

00:49:48 – 00:49:57:	And that actually touches on one of two ways in which it should be incredibly obvious for Christians that certain sins are worse than others.

00:49:57 – 00:50:04:	If you reject the gospel, what are you violating? You're violating the first table.

00:50:04 – 00:50:10:	If you are sexually abusing your neighbor, you're violating the second table.

00:50:10 – 00:50:19:	The Ten Commandments are hierarchical. Violating the ones higher up the list is worse than violating the ones further down the list.

00:50:19 – 00:50:30:	So it is worse to have a false God than it is to steal from your neighbor. That should just be obvious to the Christian.

00:50:30 – 00:50:37:	And even to the pagan, it should be obvious that it is worse to murder your neighbor than to steal his cow.

00:50:37 – 00:50:43:	So we know this. This is obvious to just human beings. It's obvious to everyone.

00:50:43 – 00:50:53:	But also in Scripture, there is the unforgivable sin. Well, it's pretty obvious the sin that cannot be forgiven is worse than all of the ones that can be forgiven.

00:50:53 – 00:51:00:	So there is at least one sin that's worse than all the others. But again, there is a hierarchy. There are sins that are worse than other sins.

00:51:00 – 00:51:05:	And there are parts of hell that are worse than other parts of hell.

00:51:05 – 00:51:14:	Yes, one sin is sufficient to send you to hell for eternity if you are not forgiven and in Christ.

00:51:14 – 00:51:17:	But again, there are worse parts of hell.

00:51:18 – 00:51:24:	You would much rather be in the least terrible part than the most terrible part, whatever that happens to be.

00:51:24 – 00:51:30:	And you mentioned the Imago Day and the nature of man and what original sin does.

00:51:30 – 00:51:37:	And because that gets botched in a lot of traditions, I'll actually add to the show notes the book of Concord handles that at length.

00:51:37 – 00:51:44:	It does a very good job of explaining what is the nature of man, what is the corruption of the nature of man postfall.

00:51:45 – 00:51:47:	So I'll link to that in the show notes.

00:51:47 – 00:51:50:	So next we're going to talk about a usury.

00:51:50 – 00:52:08:	This is one of the commandments that was given in the Old Testament and then was upheld in the New Testament church and it's an example of one of their earlier doctrines that was practiced for a long time and then was abandoned.

00:52:08 – 00:52:10:	So we're trying to kind of go in order.

00:52:10 – 00:52:13:	So we began with shaking the dust off your feet.

00:52:13 – 00:52:15:	Jesus commanded it.

00:52:15 – 00:52:23:	The apostles obeyed it and then we don't really couldn't fight a record of anyone obeying it after that.

00:52:23 – 00:52:38:	Usury was something that basically in the Old Testament, usually when a Christian speaks of it historically, there is no distinction whatsoever between usury and charging interest.

00:52:39 – 00:52:49:	In other words, if I give you $100 and I expect you to give me $100 back, that's a loan.

00:52:49 – 00:52:56:	If I expect you to give me $105 back, that's a loan and it's also usury.

00:52:56 – 00:53:04:	So what God says to the Israelites is that that is prohibited to do among yourselves.

00:53:04 – 00:53:20:	Now he did make the exception that it was permissible for the Israelites, for the Hebrews, to charge interest to aliens, which I think actually illustrates the fact that it is an element of warfare.

00:53:20 – 00:53:29:	There are many things that God permitted his people to do to aliens that were fundamentally destructive and hostile.

00:53:29 – 00:53:33:	I mean, usury is one of them, charging interest is one of them.

00:53:33 – 00:53:45:	Now it's interesting that God prohibited usury among the Hebrews because it was common well before their day or contemporaneous to them.

00:53:45 – 00:53:56:	The code of homerabi and other contemporaneous records demonstrate that the charging of interest was common in the old 1500 BC.

00:53:56 – 00:53:58:	It was typical.

00:53:58 – 00:54:04:	Some of the very first records we have are financial records that were preserved and we can see the interest payments.

00:54:04 – 00:54:12:	We actually have, we have better documentation of the type of usury that was employed by pagan nations.

00:54:12 – 00:54:22:	In some cases, we have about their religions because the usury required adequate record keeping, which is, we kind of do know their religion then.

00:54:22 – 00:54:26:	Yes, yeah, I mean, that's, that's really what a boils down to.

00:54:26 – 00:54:30:	And the percentages are not worthy.

00:54:30 – 00:54:34:	Yeah, yeah, it's interesting when you look back to 1500 BC.

00:54:34 – 00:54:47:	And so the interest rates were typical were typically, we're usually like 12 to 20%, which is funny because that's literally the typical interest rate range for a credit card today.

00:54:47 – 00:54:56:	So in 4000 years of human history, when interest is being charged, it's pretty much always been in the same range.

00:54:56 – 00:55:04:	And what God does is he condemns that out of hand and says that you, it's an abomination, you're not to do that to your brother.

00:55:04 – 00:55:20:	When some of the early philosophers in the West tackled the subject, Aristotle and others, they actually objected on principle to the charging of interest on philosophical grounds.

00:55:20 – 00:55:28:	They took the approach that correctly that money is a medium of exchange. It's not inherently productive.

00:55:28 – 00:55:34:	It's only made productive by the work that someone does with it.

00:55:34 – 00:55:46:	And so their premise was that if I give you $100 and I say $105 back, the money didn't reproduce. The money is sterile.

00:55:46 – 00:55:55:	And if I'm asking for $5 more than you gave me, I'm effectively stealing from you. That was the philosophical approach that was taken.

00:55:55 – 00:56:13:	And it's one that was generally held in the early church from the Council of Nicea up basically through Thomas Aquinas. That was more or less the view in most of the Christian church was that Christians should not charge interest to other Christians.

00:56:13 – 00:56:23:	It wasn't seen as Judaism. It wasn't seen as, well, here's this one Old Testament law that we're just going to keep round.

00:56:23 – 00:56:37:	There was understood that there was a principle, again, the principle of harm being done that it would be excluded. You wouldn't do this harm to your brother. You can do it to an alien.

00:56:37 – 00:56:46:	Well, it was seen as moral law, not ceremonial or civil law for Israel. And so it was retained into the New Testament church.

00:56:46 – 00:56:52:	Yeah. And you'd mentioned in prep the the ladder and council. I believe called it a heresy.

00:56:52 – 00:57:04:	Yeah, I mean, it was called a heresy and those who practiced it were denied a Christian burial, which in some cases would have been you had to be buried outside the city like unclean garbage.

00:57:04 – 00:57:14:	This wasn't something that the church. This was not an ancillary issue or something out on the fringe. This was just something that was at the heart of Christianity and we all agreed.

00:57:14 – 00:57:23:	This was a sinful, vile evil practice and we will not engage in it. Now, of course, that changes when we get to the Middle Ages as we'll get into it a minute.

00:57:23 – 00:57:29:	But that was the consensus of the church for well over a thousand years.

00:57:29 – 00:57:40:	Yeah. Before you get into the history, I just want to briefly mention a passage from Luke 6 where Jesus is preaching.

00:57:40 – 00:57:53:	He says, if you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you for even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you for even sinners do the same.

00:57:53 – 00:58:04:	And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive what credit is that for you even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount.

00:58:04 – 00:58:18:	Beloved your enemies and do good and lend expecting nothing in return and your reward will be great and you'll be sons of the most high for he is kind to the ungrateful and evil be merciful even as your father is merciful.

00:58:18 – 00:58:33:	So while that doesn't directly discuss us or read the charging of interest, it is worth noting that when Jesus said even sinners do this, he was talking about lending simply to receive back that which you had been given.

00:58:33 – 00:58:49:	Now again, back to the philosophical point about the sterility of money. If you asked to borrow my chainsaw because you have you need to do a bunch of clearing on your on your property and you don't return your chain my chainsaw for a year.

00:58:50 – 00:59:18:	When the year elapses and you return the chainsaw, it would be insane for me to demand that you give me two chainsaws you'd stare me like like I had two heads. And yet if I give you $100 and you come back a year later, it's today in our minds that's seen as perfectly reasonable that I would ask for more than I lent in Jesus is commanding the Christian not only shouldn't we not ask for more than we're lent.

00:59:18 – 00:59:34:	But we should forgive our debts as we wish God to forgive our debts that if you have someone who to him you've given something expect nothing in return. And therefore if he gives you something in return, you had been blessed and he has been blessed by doing something good to you.

00:59:34 – 00:59:55:	But if he doesn't give you anything back if he keeps the money that you lent to him wipe the slate clean. That is the the essence of the Christian teaching on finance which goes a million miles away from whether or not you should charge interest and it goes directly to fact if you give someone something don't expect a back period.

59:55 – 01:00:19
And this is in this is in the Lord's prayer and I kind of regret that we replaced get forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors with forgive us our trespasses because they mean the same thing they're different connotations slightly but fundamentally sin is debt when Christ paid the price for our cross and listen to that language.

01:00:19 – 01:00:40:	It's the language we use every time we speak about this Christ paid the price for our sin on the cross he didn't pay an infinite price for infinite sins he spade he paid the specific price for the specific sins the specific centers committed in time both before and after and even during his crucifixion.

01:00:40 – 01:01:07:	So this is why the Eastern Orthodox rejection of penal substitutionary atonement is so fundamentally evil because they fundamentally denied that there was a price to be paid and therefore they deny the Christ paid it because if there was no price then their their eos that actually say that Jesus died on the cross because it made the story more dramatic that there was no there was no paid price to be paid there because God isn't a God with a ledger.

01:01:07 – 01:01:18:	Well scripture is abundantly clear that there is a ledger both of our names and of the sins that we've committed against God and they're each accounted for individually.

01:01:18 – 01:01:34:	Now again as we say in every episode we get into these dangerous areas that's not to suggest the works righteousness is in play no Christian will ever believe that he can make up for even one of his sins just as Adam couldn't make up for even the wrong piece of fruit.

01:01:35 – 01:01:58:	And yet the ledger that includes the sins all of them were checked off on the cross simultaneously and for all time God paid Christ paid the eternal price in three hours on the cross because he's God he can absorb an infinity and a finite time because he is above and beyond all human comprehension.

01:01:58 – 01:02:06:	Nevertheless the price the specific price just like there's a price tag on a piece of fruit the price was paid.

01:02:06 – 01:02:17:	We may as well take the opportunity to cover how the the ledger works in this case because some people will undoubtedly listen and be in churches that do not teach this clearly.

01:02:17 – 01:02:26:	And so how this works is God's ledger tracks all of your sin and all of your works.

01:02:27 – 01:02:45:	For the Christian the sins are not counted against you because Christ paid the full price of sin for everyone on the cross and so your sins are blotted out your works remain your works are counted as good because you are in Christ.

01:02:45 – 01:02:55:	Therefore you do get credit for your good works but again the sins are blotted out now in the case of the unbeliever it is the inverse.

01:02:55 – 01:03:24:	Your sins remain because you are not in Christ and you have chosen to pay the price for those sins in eternity because the debt of sin is infinite hell is infinite you will be there forever paying back the price the debt of those sins and your works count for nothing because the status of the person who does the works matters sinners cannot have good works.

01:03:25 – 01:03:46:	If you are a sinner not in Christ and you go out and feed the homeless that's a good work you don't get credit because of your status as a sinner not in Christ not forgiven and so does only Christians whose good works are counted and so that's how this actually works in reality.

01:03:46 – 01:03:55:	And you mentioned the I have to plug German because of course but you mentioned the fact that we use forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

01:03:55 – 01:04:15:	I like that in German it's shoold and shoold is both trespass guilt debt obligation it's all of it in one term and so you don't have to choose between the two as we've sort of had to do in English my father was taught it forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors

01:04:15 – 01:04:34:	but obviously most Lutherans use trespass and trespassers but again that's a good illustration of the fact that it's the same thing it's the same it is absolutely yes it's the same it's the same conception it's just in modern parlance we've paired down the senses of trespass and trespasser

01:04:35 – 01:04:52:	and so we we don't think of the fullness of what the term means it was chosen because it does actually mean the fullness of the concept in scripture it's just to modern ears we don't typically hear all of that we should pastors and teachers need to teach people so that they know that

01:04:52 – 01:05:05:	and if you read scripture it's incredibly obvious the legal language is everywhere it's spoken of God is judge and it's his courtroom and there's a ledger and there's a record and there's evidence and this is a legal issue

01:05:05 – 01:05:15:	and yes as mentioned the eo hate that they say the west is too legalistic and too rationalistic and no we're just quoting scripture

01:05:15 – 01:05:26:	God is your judge judges have a courtroom courts have prosecutors and defenders and you hear evidence and there are convictions that's how this works

01:05:26 – 01:05:41:	and there are penalties there are specific penalties that are tailored to the crime which in this case is infinite because the person harmed is God and so infinite we'll get into that another time that's philosophical

01:05:41 – 01:05:58:	so even up to the time of Thomas Aquinas it was just settled a settled matter in the church that you did not charge interest at least when it came to Christians and others within your own nation even to non-Christians in your own nation

01:05:58 – 01:06:14:	members of other nations there was still some debate on that because obviously in the Old Testament and Deuteronomy you're permitted to charge four-unters interest Deuteronomy 23 but one of the examples given by Thomas Aquinas one of the reasons he argued against it was saying it would be like charging twice

01:06:14 – 01:06:21:	it would be like charging a man for a bottle of wine and then charging him again when he wants to drink

01:06:21 – 01:06:35:	but where things started to go off the rails and I know somewhere there's probably a papus listening who's going to be incredibly gleeful and clap but don't do it too quickly because it comes back around

01:06:35 – 01:06:48:	it goes off the rails a little bit before the information actually but Luther whiffs this one a bit but Calvin is really the one who opens the door to the modern practice of usury

01:06:48 – 01:07:02:	it seems like what Luther was doing was trying to take a conservative but not a hard line stance which is notable and odd for Luther but a conservative stance with regard to the charging of interest

01:07:02 – 01:07:14:	because in his day you had the beginnings of a market economy starting up you had the expansion of the economy you had more trade and so merchants were charging interest

01:07:14 – 01:07:26:	they were setting terms in their contracts and things like this Calvin sort of took the position that merchants could set the terms in their contracts and so there was some level of interest they could charge

01:07:26 – 01:07:38:	Luther was trying to again take a conservative position with regard to debates the scholastics had been having they settled on this 5% figure I don't actually remember or I couldn't find why

01:07:38 – 01:07:52:	but there was a lot of wrangling over 5% interest was the number they decided on and so he was taking a conservative position with regard to that and trying to limit how much interest was charged

01:07:52 – 01:08:05:	he still had comments that were very much against any charging of interest basically calling it all usury but this is where we start to see less of the hard line stance against all interest of all kinds

01:08:06 – 01:08:17:	and from there it's rapidly downhill once the philosophers and the economists get a hold of it and the church starts listening to them instead of to the word of God

01:08:17 – 01:08:33:	I think it's important to know that during in the medieval period there were periods of time where interest was permissible again never among Christians but this is when

01:08:33 – 01:08:47:	the Jews became an extricably linked to banking because the prohibition was on Christians not charging interest Jews were permitted to charge interest because well if they're going to hell anyway one you know let them do the thing because people wanted

01:08:47 – 01:08:58:	money lent to them and there may be someone who will lend money to you at interest who would not lend it to you particularly as a Christian where you're obligated to Jesus

01:08:58 – 01:09:06:	do not expect to be paid back and so what happened in the the medieval period was that

01:09:06 – 01:09:13:	kings and other potentates wanted to fight their wars and they wanted to build their palaces and they needed a finance it

01:09:13 – 01:09:23:	and so it became increasingly normal off on the periphery not necessarily Christians lending but Christians relieved receiving that which was lent

01:09:23 – 01:09:40:	from the Jewish bankers to facilitate war and so I think it's notable that the first cracks that appeared in Christendom giving up the moral stance were fundamentally around dealing with unbelievers

01:09:40 – 01:09:48:	permissively and fighting and waging wars and doing other things that should not have been done you wouldn't have done it with your own money

01:09:48 – 01:10:00:	you can borrow somebody else's interest suddenly it becomes a thing that's permissible I think that while that doesn't directly speak to the moral tenor of usery or interest itself

01:10:00 – 01:10:08:	it's some interesting color to consider because it only those things are always connected

01:10:08 – 01:10:20:	that is absolutely worth mentioning and we could also point out that the prohibition on usery is not unique to Christianity but it is unique to Christianity

01:10:20 – 01:10:29:	and cults that have sprung up as cancer assists from Christianity so Islam prohibits usery

01:10:29 – 01:10:41:	but of course the Jews were permitted to charge usery because they were looking at Deuteronomy 23 and saying these Christian foreigners were allowed to charge them

01:10:41 – 01:10:50:	which is of course an admission they're worshiping a different God and it's an argument for not having non-Christians in your country because these things happen

01:10:50 – 01:10:57:	we won't of course let the noblemen off the hook the kings who use this scheme to get around the word of God because that's all they were doing

01:10:57 – 01:11:07:	the word of God doesn't say don't sin unless you hire another man to sin for you that's also a sin in fact that's a collection of sins

01:11:07 – 01:11:15:	it's not better don't do that and so they should not have done what they did but at any rate we get into the modern times

01:11:15 – 01:11:26:	and something it's worth noting Chemnitz the second Martin as he has been called has a treatise on usery condemning it of course

01:11:26 – 01:11:34:	the problem is you do not get to read it unless you know Latin or German because the volumes of Chemnitz that have been translated

01:11:34 – 01:11:40:	and it's not a cheap collection but Concordia publishing house has this it does not include the treatise on usery

01:11:40 – 01:11:47:	it also doesn't include the treatise on revenge and a few other things noteworthy and strange that these things have been omitted

01:11:47 – 01:11:52:	and I don't think they're even trans I don't think there are plans to translate them it's not just they were omitted

01:11:52 – 01:11:56:	I don't think there's a plan to add additional volumes at present

01:11:56 – 01:12:02:	then you had mentioned that they even omitted it from the index so if you only knew English

01:12:02 – 01:12:07:	yeah the terms not even there yeah you would never have any idea that Chemnitz ever wrote anything about usery

01:12:07 – 01:12:13:	which is fascinating because CPH is the captive arm of the LCMS for publishing

01:12:13 – 01:12:20:	the LCMS also has another captive arm the LCEF the Lutheran Church Extension Fund gets what they do

01:12:20 – 01:12:25:	they're a bank effectively not they're not chartered as a bank but they're a lender

01:12:25 – 01:12:33:	they lend to churches at interest now it's low interest loans relatively in theory

01:12:34 – 01:12:42:	but we have come so far from what the was the historic practice of believers

01:12:42 – 01:12:50:	to now we have a church which is refusing to acknowledge that the discussion ever took place

01:12:50 – 01:13:01:	by omitting it from the Chemnitz volume and actively engaging in what in the Old Testament was unequivocally usery

01:13:01 – 01:13:10:	to charge interest to a Christian is usery period the only argument that could be made is well yeah but it's permissible

01:13:10 – 01:13:17:	and yet we don't even have the argument because again as the theme of this episode it's not even a question

01:13:17 – 01:13:23:	it was in the Bible and then it just sort of fell away and now didn't fall away from the church

01:13:23 – 01:13:29:	it took 1500 years or so for the church to really get rolling and modernizing and saying well

01:13:29 – 01:13:34:	I guess maybe that's not a sin anymore maybe it was never a sin do we really know if it's sin

01:13:34 – 01:13:40:	did God really say and so they spelled a lot of ink on that question and finally we're to the point today

01:13:40 – 01:13:46:	we're not only does no one ask the question but the church is charging the church itself interest on loans

01:13:46 – 01:13:52:	for things like building churches which I only laughed absolutely ridiculous

01:13:52 – 01:14:03:	if it had never happened I don't think I could possibly script a fiction as evil as what we're doing today

01:14:03 – 01:14:11:	by the by the plain words of scripture so again the the point of this episode is where did this stuff go

01:14:11 – 01:14:15:	now in this case as I mentioned we're kind of going in chronological order

01:14:15 – 01:14:22:	we kind of lost usery a while ago and you know Luther Luther ate it he didn't really get right

01:14:22 – 01:14:31:	Luther Luther whiffed it however it is worth pointing out the Lutheran church didn't actually go with Luther on this one

01:14:31 – 01:14:35:	because of course it's not in our confession we are not bound to believe this

01:14:35 – 01:14:41:	up until the early 1900s at least in the US the Lutheran church stood against usury

01:14:41 – 01:14:48:	we have writing from paper and Walter condemning it so we got this one right it was only in

01:14:48 – 01:14:55:	I don't know if it was the 40s the 50s or the 60s but it was in the last within the last no 80 years or so

01:14:55 – 01:14:59:	that this started to slip away in the Lutheran church

01:14:59 – 01:15:06:	which makes sense because we found the the footnote from the sonotical convention and I think

01:15:06 – 01:15:12:	it was 1893 where they were still arguing over whether life insurance would be permissible

01:15:12 – 01:15:18:	yeah whether insurance of any kind property insurance whether that was immoral because it wasn't trust in God

01:15:18 – 01:15:26:	so it's not a stretch to think that our Lutheran fathers in the LCMS would be pretty surprised to learn that

01:15:26 – 01:15:31:	there's a lending arm charging churches at interest to build churches

01:15:31 – 01:15:39:	and yet that's how quickly morality changes I mean getting back to a recurring theme

01:15:39 – 01:15:45:	God doesn't change morality doesn't changes doesn't change doctrine is changing

01:15:45 – 01:15:50:	not because doctrine is being developed but because scripture is being abandoned

01:15:50 – 01:15:57:	when the whole council of God needs white out when there are things that we're ashamed of

01:15:57 – 01:16:03:	that is when we really have to seriously question whether we're even the church anymore

01:16:03 – 01:16:08:	not even not in the big sea way even in a little sea are we are we a Christian church

01:16:08 – 01:16:13:	if we are adopting these these beliefs

01:16:13 – 01:16:16:	the next one I want to get on to is is a much more recent one

01:16:16 – 01:16:22:	and it also follows on the heels of developments from warfare

01:16:22 – 01:16:31:	so while it wasn't necessarily seen as a strictly moral code in all cases

01:16:31 – 01:16:39:	it was generally just the norm it was it was it was such an essential element of a Christian nation

01:16:39 – 01:16:43:	that it was almost unthinkable that a girl would work outside of the home

01:16:43 – 01:16:49:	she would be productive within the home because as God created her she is a help mate

01:16:49 – 01:16:55:	helping your husband is going to naturally be productive and not only in case of child rearing

01:16:55 – 01:17:01:	there are things that are done around the house that are that are productive for the sake of what the man is doing

01:17:01 – 01:17:11:	particularly because jobs used to be also in the home like the man the idea of a man going off to a factory 30 miles away is a very modern thing

01:17:11 – 01:17:15:	the man's work and the woman's work were usually yards apart

01:17:15 – 01:17:23:	so her being a help mate and her doing work that was productive was always in support of what the man did

01:17:23 – 01:17:30:	and then we came to world war two where we sent so many men overseas and we had so many men working in factories

01:17:30 – 01:17:37:	there were shortages and so what happened we quickly normalized not coincidentally

01:17:37 – 01:17:43:	girls leaving their homes young girls older women going into the factories

01:17:43 – 01:17:51:	either to make bombs or to do math for calculating artillery tables but by the hundreds of thousands and by the millions

01:17:51 – 01:18:01:	women left their homes and they began doing jobs that had been limited to men prior to world war two

01:18:01 – 01:18:07:	and then when world war two ended the status quo anti wasn't restored

01:18:07 – 01:18:15:	there were a lot of women like you know what I'm making more money if if my husband can come home or if I can marry a man who's gonna earn and I can earn too

01:18:15 – 01:18:19:	wow look look how quickly we can get ahead with all this cash flow

01:18:19 – 01:18:26:	and so it became normalized again through warfare that girls would just work outside the home

01:18:26 – 01:18:36:	and so there was a a tweet a couple days ago from another LCMS pastor who's familiar to both you and I for unspecified reasons

01:18:36 – 01:18:45:	Dan Ross who's a and so he's a pastor and the absolute whitest part of Oklahoma yet somehow he's a very vehement

01:18:45 – 01:18:52:	anti racist crusader that's funny the part of Oklahoma he lives and works and is so white that even in Oklahoma

01:18:52 – 01:18:58:	it's a joke how white the places so I love the idea of him pointing at other people and saying

01:18:58 – 01:19:07:	you're racist when by every measure of racism simply living in such a place he is itself racism so he's an unquantity

01:19:07 – 01:19:13:	but he decided to stand aside to step into the ring yesterday with this bolt claim

01:19:13 – 01:19:19:	there are two days ago he tweeted wives can work full-time jobs outside the home

01:19:19 – 01:19:26:	they can be the main breadwinners and husbands can be stay at home dads this doesn't violate scripture

01:19:26 – 01:19:34:	now this isn't just a guy tweeting this is a pastor he's rostered he's credentialed I believe he has an actual M div

01:19:34 – 01:19:40:	and said one of the fake degrees like some of the other guys so to his credit he probably actually knows Greek and Hebrew

01:19:40 – 01:19:44:	but it doesn't stop him from saying the opposite of what scripture says

01:19:44 – 01:19:50:	let's see what happens in Titus with regard to women outside the home

01:19:50 – 01:19:55:	Titus responds they profess to know God but they deny him by their works

01:19:55 – 01:19:59:	they're detestable disobedient unfit for any good work

01:19:59 – 01:20:04:	but as for you teach what accords with sound doctrine older men are to be so

01:20:04 – 01:20:10:	reminded dignified self-controlled sound and faith in love and instead fastness

01:20:10 – 01:20:17:	older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior not slanders or slave too much wine

01:20:17 – 01:20:23:	they meaning the older women are to teach what is good and so train the younger women to

01:20:23 – 01:20:28:	love their husbands and children to be self-controlled pure working at home

01:20:28 – 01:20:33:	kind and submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be reviled

01:20:33 – 01:20:37:	likewise urge the younger men to be self-controlled

01:20:37 – 01:20:44:	I had someone dispute with me yesterday on Twitter whether the passage the part of that that said

01:20:44 – 01:20:49:	women are to work from home whether it applied only to older women which was the claim that was made

01:20:49 – 01:20:54:	if you when go read it yourself this is the end of Titus one in the beginning of Titus two

01:20:54 – 01:21:00:	they're clearly two sections there's a section that says older men are to be so

01:21:00 – 01:21:04:	reminded and it parallels with with older older women are to be effectively the same

01:21:04 – 01:21:10:	and then it specifically tells older women to teach younger women a series of things

01:21:10 – 01:21:15:	everything that's listed after that point is what the older women are to teach the younger woman

01:21:15 – 01:21:21:	and that includes working at home and the reason I included the last parent in the last sentence is

01:21:21 – 01:21:25:	it says likewise urge the younger men to be self-controlled

01:21:25 – 01:21:31:	likewise urge shows that the likewise urge of the older women to the younger women

01:21:31 – 01:21:38:	encapsulates every single word of that so Titus is explicit it is explicit

01:21:38 – 01:21:44:	they are to teach and train the young women to work at home

01:21:44 – 01:21:49:	that's not a paraphrase I just alighting the section so you can see of that one element

01:21:49 – 01:21:55:	younger women are to work from home and the reason that the word of God may not be reviled

01:21:55 – 01:22:01:	so when a pastor says that doesn't violate scripture what is he doing?

01:22:01 – 01:22:07:	he is reviling scripture he's literally doing that which is damned

01:22:07 – 01:22:15:	so when Dan says that doesn't violate scripture he's he's he's plainly lying about what scripture says

01:22:15 – 01:22:22:	and the reason he's lying is that he's ashamed he's ashamed of scripture it's not it's not cool anymore

01:22:22 – 01:22:27:	there's some stuff in there that's pretty cringe it's it's stuff that you know

01:22:27 – 01:22:33:	I was talking to a friend yesterday we were talking about the the doctrine of closed communion

01:22:33 – 01:22:40:	and he described the the approach that a lot of pastors have when explaining closed communion to a visitor

01:22:40 – 01:22:47:	where they basically act like an embarrassed assistive manager in a store apologizing for for store policies

01:22:47 – 01:22:52:	that he's not really responsible for he's like you know these guys are just kind of hard about this stuff

01:22:52 – 01:22:56:	and you and I both know it's silly but we got to follow the rules

01:22:56 – 01:23:00:	that's how a lot of these guys are with all of scripture

01:23:00 – 01:23:05:	and so Dan is lying about Titus and he's lying about the rest of scripture

01:23:05 – 01:23:12:	because he finds it embarrassing and in that thread he went on to accuse another man that I've gotten on Twitter

01:23:12 – 01:23:17:	who was refuting him I the the guy was saying giving a number of reasons

01:23:17 – 01:23:23:	and Dan's responses were that that's misogyny that's sexism you're a chauvinist you're importing this stuff

01:23:23 – 01:23:29:	and you're calling the stuff christianity those were his rebukes to a man who was pointing to scripture

01:23:29 – 01:23:34:	now listen to what Jesus says in Luke 9

01:23:34 – 01:23:39:	for what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself

01:23:39 – 01:23:47:	for whoever is ashamed of me and my words of him will the son of man be ashamed when he comes in his glory

01:23:47 – 01:23:50:	and the glory of the father and of the holy angels

01:23:50 – 01:23:57:	now what Jesus says in Luke 9 is that Dan Ross is damned if he doesn't repent of his shame

01:23:57 – 01:24:01:	for what God says he will go to hell

01:24:01 – 01:24:06:	and I looked up with the the word shame there just to make sure that you know it wasn't a mis translation

01:24:06 – 01:24:11:	or something that that couldn't be defended and it gets even better when you when you look at the Greek word

01:24:11 – 01:24:17:	that's used there in a couple other times it's related to disgrace or dishonor

01:24:17 – 01:24:25:	and that's exactly what's going on here Jesus is saying if these men are disgraced by what I have said in scripture

01:24:25 – 01:24:32:	I will be disgraced of them now as Christians we don't like to hear that the law applies to us

01:24:32 – 01:24:37:	when when scripture says you did something wrong we always want to think well that must be the other guy

01:24:37 – 01:24:45:	and so I thought for a while about this passage in Luke 9 because the way that it's phrased

01:24:45 – 01:24:49:	it's easy for Christians to think well that doesn't apply to me

01:24:49 – 01:24:56:	but if you consider who could be ashamed of Jesus words what does it mean to be ashamed of anything

01:24:56 – 01:25:05:	to be ashamed of something implies some sort of proprietary interest it implies a degree of possession

01:25:05 – 01:25:12:	so there are three non overlapping categories of human beings in the world

01:25:12 – 01:25:19:	there are pagans who have never heard a lick of the word of God they have only natural revelation

01:25:19 – 01:25:27:	they have no idea what God has ever said this can apply to them because how can they be disgraced by words that they've never heard

01:25:27 – 01:25:32:	the second category of people are pagans who have heard the word the word to some degree

01:25:32 – 01:25:37:	and they just don't believe it they they never have faith so you know maybe they've read some scripture

01:25:37 – 01:25:42:	they've heard it or they've argued about it on the internet but it was never theirs

01:25:42 – 01:25:49:	are they being ashamed of scripture and of Jesus words no because it has no nexus to their lives

01:25:49 – 01:25:55:	they're mocking and deriding something alien to them but Jesus isn't talking about the unbeliever

01:25:55 – 01:26:01:	who's heard the word because they couldn't possibly be ashamed or disgraced but it's not theirs

01:26:01 – 01:26:08:	Jesus is speaking to people who claim to be Christians who claim the word of God who say yeah this is mine

01:26:08 – 01:26:14:	this scripture the the Bible the word of God belongs to me because I'm a Christian

01:26:14 – 01:26:20:	and Jesus says something that we leave out of our creeds and we leave out of our confessions

01:26:20 – 01:26:26:	except by inference which is this passage that if you say that you're mine

01:26:26 – 01:26:31:	but you are disgraced by what I say I'm not going to recognize you on judgment day

01:26:31 – 01:26:37:	you say Lord Lord didn't we not do XY and Z and Jesus will say I never knew you

01:26:37 – 01:26:41:	and he's talking about Dan Ross and he's talking about all these other pastors

01:26:41 – 01:26:46:	who when these questions come up online they don't say well let's see what scripture says

01:26:46 – 01:26:51:	they lie and they say scripture says nothing there's Dan Dan let me read that again

01:26:52 – 01:26:56:	Dan says wives can work full-time jobs outside the home they can be breadwinners

01:26:56 – 01:27:00:	and husbands can be stay at home dads this doesn't violate scripture

01:27:00 – 01:27:04:	that cannot be possibly more contradictory to Titus 2

01:27:04 – 01:27:07:	Dan Ross is a damned liar if he doesn't repent

01:27:07 – 01:27:12:	and I don't say this to pick on him I say this is an example of the sort of thing

01:27:12 – 01:27:16:	that is occurring within the church without pushback

01:27:16 – 01:27:21:	there's not a single pastor when I when I called attention to this what was said

01:27:21 – 01:27:24:	there will never be a pastor who will speak out publicly

01:27:24 – 01:27:27:	because as we mentioned previously the LCMS is banned

01:27:27 – 01:27:30:	pastors from criticizing other pastors and our bylaws

01:27:30 – 01:27:35:	you can get kicked out for doing that apparently you can't get kicked out for denying scripture

01:27:35 – 01:27:37:	because these guys do this all the time

01:27:37 – 01:27:41:	but if you criticize another man and you cause a stink

01:27:41 – 01:27:45:	and you get hurt feelings by saying what God says

01:27:45 – 01:27:50:	then you're actually in jeopardy and for a pastor that means potentially losing his income

01:27:50 – 01:27:54:	and losing his percentage and his children not being able to eat

01:27:54 – 01:27:59:	so I understand the motivation I I'm not excusing it

01:27:59 – 01:28:04:	but I'm saying I understand why a man would want to just pretend this didn't happen

01:28:04 – 01:28:07:	just keep on walking because I'm not his neighbor

01:28:07 – 01:28:11:	you know it's you cross by the other side of the road and pretend like

01:28:11 – 01:28:13:	none of the slanners of other ever happens

01:28:13 – 01:28:16:	but it is happening and it's a denial of scripture

01:28:16 – 01:28:20:	and it's a denial of scripture by men who are ordained

01:28:20 – 01:28:24:	and are told to the world this is a man who speaks for Jesus

01:28:24 – 01:28:29:	then gets up on every Sunday and says or should say or at least implies

01:28:29 – 01:28:34:	by his conduct in the church service that he stands in the stead and by the command

01:28:34 – 01:28:37:	of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

01:28:37 – 01:28:41:	and for a man to make that claim and say the scripture says

01:28:41 – 01:28:45:	girls can work outside the home is plainly false

01:28:45 – 01:28:52:	now again I'm not saying that the question of to what degree a girl may have income

01:28:52 – 01:28:56:	is we're not talking about equations

01:28:56 – 01:28:59:	we're not talking with with usually with all these things

01:28:59 – 01:29:02:	we're not talking about a set of rules and math

01:29:02 – 01:29:07:	we're focusing on the fact that the church used to do one thing

01:29:07 – 01:29:10:	and people used to believe one thing and then we stopped believing it

01:29:10 – 01:29:12:	and then we went a step further

01:29:12 – 01:29:17:	and we say that the word of God doesn't say what it says it says

01:29:17 – 01:29:20:	are we still Christians?

01:29:20 – 01:29:23:	is it a Christian church that will do that that will engage in that

01:29:23 – 01:29:27:	and when a man comes along and raises these questions as we are

01:29:27 – 01:29:31:	rather than shouting him down and saying the worst things imaginable about him

01:29:31 – 01:29:36:	is it worth having the conversation is it worth the question

01:29:36 – 01:29:40:	does scripture actually say anything about how women should conduct themselves

01:29:40 – 01:29:44:	and pastors should conduct themselves and men should conduct themselves

01:29:44 – 01:29:46:	if scripture is not silent

01:29:46 – 01:29:52:	isn't an acceptable part of Christian discourse for us to have these conversations

01:29:52 – 01:29:55:	I say yes or you say yes

01:29:55 – 01:29:59:	we're doing this because it is not happening to the degree that it shouldn't be

01:29:59 – 01:30:07:	and the fact that there is silence everywhere else is a clear indication to me

01:30:07 – 01:30:12:	that we are becoming if not in fact already an apostate church

01:30:12 – 01:30:16:	even while we have the creeds and we have the confessions

01:30:16 – 01:30:20:	because as I said at the beginning these things they're not necessarily seminal doctrines

01:30:20 – 01:30:22:	but they're in there

01:30:22 – 01:30:25:	and the fact that they weren't talked about a lot in the past

01:30:25 – 01:30:29:	is because they were so obviously a fundamental part of the Christian faith

01:30:29 – 01:30:32:	that it was just part and parcel

01:30:32 – 01:30:34:	if you're a Christian nation you didn't have usery

01:30:34 – 01:30:36:	you didn't have women working at the side of the home

01:30:36 – 01:30:40:	you didn't need a bunch of doctrinal treatises because it just didn't happen

01:30:40 – 01:30:43:	it was only once people started saying that God really say

01:30:43 – 01:30:47:	that the discourse began and the arguments and the discussions

01:30:47 – 01:30:50:	and now today the discussions are forbidden

01:30:50 – 01:30:53:	because not that the question has been settled

01:30:53 – 01:30:55:	but that the question has been nullified

01:30:55 – 01:30:58:	the question is no longer a permissible question

01:30:58 – 01:31:00:	because it upsets people

01:31:00 – 01:31:02:	it gets feelings hurt

01:31:02 – 01:31:04:	it's not win some to say

01:31:04 – 01:31:07:	well maybe Dan if your wife works at the home

01:31:07 – 01:31:09:	I don't know if she does she probably does

01:31:09 – 01:31:10:	but they almost all do

01:31:10 – 01:31:14:	like there are a lot of good pastors whose wives work outside the home

01:31:14 – 01:31:17:	am I saying that they're all sinning?

01:31:17 – 01:31:19:	yes am I angry at them?

01:31:19 – 01:31:21:	no it's concerned

01:31:21 – 01:31:24:	it's concern at the fact that we as a church

01:31:24 – 01:31:27:	we as Christians are living lives

01:31:27 – 01:31:29:	with clean consciences

01:31:29 – 01:31:31:	when our consciences shouldn't be clean

01:31:31 – 01:31:34:	if God said something and we just ignore it

01:31:34 – 01:31:36:	and we pretend it's not there

01:31:36 – 01:31:39:	or we attack and say we're ashamed and disgraced by it

01:31:39 – 01:31:42:	are we Christian?

01:31:42 – 01:31:46:	it's a question that you and I quarry struggle

01:31:46 – 01:31:48:	and private conversation all the time

01:31:48 – 01:31:51:	like what do you do with a man who will continuously conduct

01:31:51 – 01:31:53:	him this way, himself this way

01:31:53 – 01:31:55:	in the face of scripture

01:31:55 – 01:31:58:	and increasingly when these guys say

01:31:58 – 01:32:00:	that we don't have the same God

01:32:00 – 01:32:02:	I believe him

01:32:02 – 01:32:04:	we have to agree

01:32:04 – 01:32:06:	I have to agree

01:32:06 – 01:32:08:	if I say what scripture says clearly

01:32:08 – 01:32:10:	and what the church has always

01:32:10 – 01:32:12:	or almost always done

01:32:12 – 01:32:14:	and these guys say something different

01:32:14 – 01:32:16:	what is my guidepost?

01:32:16 – 01:32:18:	we as Christians to do with that

01:32:18 – 01:32:20:	they want you to believe the pastor

01:32:20 – 01:32:22:	because he got a collar

01:32:22 – 01:32:23:	I want to believe God

01:32:23 – 01:32:24:	because I don't want to go to hell

01:32:24 – 01:32:25:	and I want to be a creature

01:32:25 – 01:32:26:	who obeys the creator

01:32:26 – 01:32:28:	who has given me everything

01:32:28 – 01:32:30:	including pastors to teach these things

01:32:30 – 01:32:32:	it's not that I'm trying to do

01:32:32 – 01:32:34:	an end run about God's created

01:32:34 – 01:32:36:	around God's created order

01:32:36 – 01:32:39:	it's that his created order is being usurped by wolves

01:32:39 – 01:32:41:	who lie about God

01:32:41 – 01:32:43:	and that is a crisis

01:32:43 – 01:32:45:	it's a crisis that needs to be dealt with

01:32:45 – 01:32:48:	and that's why we're talking

01:32:48 – 01:32:51:	well and we've been incredibly clear

01:32:51 – 01:32:53:	neither one of us is a pastor

01:32:53 – 01:32:55:	however

01:32:55 – 01:32:57:	we are teachers

01:32:57 – 01:33:00:	no we don't have degrees

01:33:00 – 01:33:02:	but Christianity is not a matter

01:33:02 – 01:33:04:	of which degrees you have acquired

01:33:04 – 01:33:06:	yes we do agree with seminary education

01:33:06 – 01:33:07:	and formal educational

01:33:07 – 01:33:09:	we are both educated

01:33:09 – 01:33:10:	of course

01:33:10 – 01:33:11:	but we do agree with these things

01:33:11 – 01:33:12:	as part of proper order

01:33:12 – 01:33:14:	but it is not absolutely required

01:33:14 – 01:33:16:	and when no one else is standing up

01:33:16 – 01:33:18:	and saying the things that need to be said

01:33:18 – 01:33:20:	it falls to all men

01:33:20 – 01:33:22:	in the church to do so

01:33:22 – 01:33:23:	so if we weren't doing it

01:33:23 – 01:33:24:	those of you who are listening

01:33:24 – 01:33:27:	it would be incumbent on you to do it instead

01:33:27 – 01:33:30:	and so a tree is known

01:33:30 – 01:33:32:	by its fruit

01:33:32 – 01:33:34:	what is the fruit

01:33:34 – 01:33:35:	of these pastors

01:33:35 – 01:33:37:	of these men to abuse the term

01:33:37 – 01:33:39:	well we know

01:33:39 – 01:33:41:	young men are leaving the churches

01:33:41 – 01:33:42:	in droves

01:33:42 – 01:33:45:	and they are not coming back

01:33:45 – 01:33:48:	because the church has been turned into something

01:33:48 – 01:33:50:	other than the church

01:33:50 – 01:33:53:	it has become some sort of social club

01:33:53 – 01:33:54:	where you go

01:33:54 – 01:33:57:	and hear that Jesus loves you sing a little bit

01:33:57 – 01:33:58:	and go home

01:33:58 – 01:34:01:	maybe the sacrament is in there at some point

01:34:01 – 01:34:03:	hopefully at least with Lutheran churches

01:34:03 – 01:34:04:	it still is

01:34:04 – 01:34:06:	although some still don't practice it weekly

01:34:06 – 01:34:08:	but that's another discussion for another day

01:34:09 – 01:34:11:	and so you drive young men away

01:34:11 – 01:34:13:	well if you're driving young men away

01:34:13 – 01:34:17:	young men are supposed to be the heads of future households

01:34:17 – 01:34:20:	or if they're already married the head of that household

01:34:20 – 01:34:22:	and so if you drive them away

01:34:22 – 01:34:25:	you are either not going to wind up

01:34:25 – 01:34:27:	having Christian households formed

01:34:27 – 01:34:29:	or you're going to wind up with a church

01:34:29 – 01:34:30:	full of women

01:34:30 – 01:34:32:	who don't get married

01:34:32 – 01:34:34:	or get married to unbelievers

01:34:34 – 01:34:35:	and so obviously

01:34:35 – 01:34:36:	what these men

01:34:36 – 01:34:37:	what they're doing

01:34:37 – 01:34:38:	it's obviously wicked

01:34:38 – 01:34:40:	because the options are

01:34:40 – 01:34:42:	the tree is known by its fruit

01:34:42 – 01:34:44:	but we know this is a poisonous tree

01:34:44 – 01:34:46:	because it has poisonous fruit

01:34:46 – 01:34:48:	or God lied

01:34:48 – 01:34:50:	when he said his word doesn't return to him void

01:34:50 – 01:34:52:	God lied when we have all these blessings

01:34:52 – 01:34:54:	when David says

01:34:54 – 01:34:56:	I believe that I will look on the good of the Lord

01:34:56 – 01:34:58:	in the land of the living

01:34:58 – 01:35:00:	the church is anything but blessed today

01:35:00 – 01:35:02:	and that is incredibly obvious

01:35:02 – 01:35:04:	if you look at what is happening

01:35:04 – 01:35:06:	and so there is something

01:35:06 – 01:35:08:	dangerously wrong

01:35:08 – 01:35:10:	in the modern church

01:35:10 – 01:35:12:	and as mentioned

01:35:12 – 01:35:14:	these doctrines many of them look like minor things

01:35:14 – 01:35:16:	and they are in fact

01:35:16 – 01:35:18:	minor compared to the major doctrines

01:35:18 – 01:35:20:	yes it is worse

01:35:20 – 01:35:22:	to get justification wrong

01:35:22 – 01:35:24:	than to get usury wrong

01:35:24 – 01:35:26:	but Satan is crafty

01:35:26 – 01:35:28:	and Satan knows

01:35:28 – 01:35:30:	if he comes out with a full frontal assault

01:35:30 – 01:35:32:	on justification

01:35:32 – 01:35:34:	okay fine, Rome will fall for it

01:35:34 – 01:35:36:	so he won't do that

01:35:36 – 01:35:38:	because you don't attack your enemy

01:35:38 – 01:35:40:	full on, you attack his flank

01:35:40 – 01:35:42:	you attack him where he is weak

01:35:42 – 01:35:44:	you sneak in behind

01:35:44 – 01:35:46:	that is how you win in a battle

01:35:46 – 01:35:48:	and that is exactly what Satan is doing

01:35:48 – 01:35:50:	and so he will find a minor doctrine

01:35:50 – 01:35:52:	or he will find a minor doctrine

01:35:52 – 01:35:54:	plus an opportunity

01:35:54 – 01:35:56:	because of the current state of the world

01:35:56 – 01:35:58:	so for instance we mentioned the world wars

01:35:58 – 01:36:00:	well, we need women to work

01:36:00 – 01:36:02:	because we don't have a large enough workforce

01:36:02 – 01:36:04:	well now we've set the precedent

01:36:04 – 01:36:06:	so now women can just work outside the home

01:36:06 – 01:36:10:	and of course we can talk about the actual economic fallout of that and no

01:36:10 – 01:36:12:	you don't actually get twice the income

01:36:12 – 01:36:14:	you get significantly less income

01:36:14 – 01:36:16:	because that's how economics works

01:36:16 – 01:36:18:	but different discussion

01:36:18 – 01:36:20:	perhaps for a different podcast

01:36:20 – 01:36:22:	and so Satan attacks

01:36:22 – 01:36:24:	these seemingly minor doctrines

01:36:24 – 01:36:26:	and that's his toehold

01:36:26 – 01:36:28:	and that's all he needs

01:36:28 – 01:36:30:	because once you see that

01:36:30 – 01:36:32:	you've actually seated a major doctrine already

01:36:32 – 01:36:34:	because you have seated

01:36:34 – 01:36:36:	that you truly believe Scripture is the word of God

01:36:36 – 01:36:38:	because if you think that you are free

01:36:38 – 01:36:40:	to ignore anything in Scripture

01:36:40 – 01:36:42:	then you do not believe it is the word of God

01:36:42 – 01:36:44:	you have rejected the author of Scripture

01:36:44 – 01:36:46:	by rejecting the nature of Scripture

01:36:46 – 01:36:48:	and that is where we are today

01:36:48 – 01:36:50:	and that is the reason

01:36:50 – 01:36:52:	we bring up these minor issues

01:36:52 – 01:36:54:	and why we'll continue to do

01:36:54 – 01:36:56:	podcasts of episodes of this type

01:36:56 – 01:36:58:	to address these seemingly minor issues

01:36:58 – 01:37:00:	because you cannot

01:37:00 – 01:37:02:	abandon a square inch of territory

01:37:02 – 01:37:04:	to Satan

01:37:04 – 01:37:06:	because that's all he needs

01:37:06 – 01:37:08:	and so to wrap up

01:37:08 – 01:37:10:	I want to mention just briefly

01:37:10 – 01:37:12:	we won't go into too much detail on it

01:37:12 – 01:37:14:	headcomber coverings

01:37:14 – 01:37:16:	for girls in church

01:37:16 – 01:37:18:	it's obviously a minor point

01:37:18 – 01:37:20:	it's a it's a question that

01:37:20 – 01:37:22:	really would be

01:37:22 – 01:37:24:	it's a question that

01:37:24 – 01:37:26:	really would be

01:37:26 – 01:37:28:	it's a question that

01:37:28 – 01:37:30:	really was

01:37:30 – 01:37:32:	forgotten

01:37:32 – 01:37:34:	like in my lifetime

01:37:34 – 01:37:36:	I haven't heard it discussed elsewhere

01:37:36 – 01:37:38:	until fairly recently

01:37:38 – 01:37:40:	as we alluded to

01:37:40 – 01:37:42:	and some a couple recent episodes

01:37:42 – 01:37:44:	that there's an increasing number

01:37:44 – 01:37:46:	of zoomers and millennials

01:37:46 – 01:37:48:	both young men

01:37:48 – 01:37:50:	and young women

01:37:50 – 01:37:52:	and married couples

01:37:52 – 01:37:54:	who are beginning to

01:37:54 – 01:37:56:	it's making people uncomfortable

01:37:56 – 01:37:58:	it's making people

01:37:58 – 01:38:00:	uncomfortable because

01:38:00 – 01:38:02:	it looks anachronistic

01:38:02 – 01:38:04:	and it raises a question

01:38:04 – 01:38:06:	that no one wants

01:38:06 – 01:38:08:	to ask let alone answer

01:38:08 – 01:38:10:	so I was actually shocked

01:38:10 – 01:38:12:	by this I didn't

01:38:12 – 01:38:14:	know until I was doing the research

01:38:14 – 01:38:16:	for this part of the episode

01:38:16 – 01:38:18:	where head covering was

01:38:18 – 01:38:20:	lost in the Christian church

01:38:20 – 01:38:22:	I know it was fairly recent

01:38:22 – 01:38:24:	so in the spirit of

01:38:24 – 01:38:26:	the genealogy of ideas

01:38:26 – 01:38:28:	let me give you the

01:38:28 – 01:38:30:	brief genealogy here

01:38:30 – 01:38:32:	Betty Frieden was born

01:38:32 – 01:38:34:	Betty Naomi Goldstein

01:38:34 – 01:38:36:	on February 4th, 1921

01:38:36 – 01:38:38:	Imperial Illinois

01:38:38 – 01:38:40:	to Harry and Mariam

01:38:40 – 01:38:42:	Horowitz Goldstein

01:38:42 – 01:38:44:	whose Jewish families were

01:38:44 – 01:38:46:	from Russia and Hungary

01:38:46 – 01:38:48:	in 1966 Frieden Goldstein

01:38:48 – 01:38:50:	was instrumental

01:38:50 – 01:38:52:	in the organization

01:38:52 – 01:38:54:	of women or now

01:38:54 – 01:38:56:	in 1968

01:38:56 – 01:38:58:	now became the first

01:38:58 – 01:39:00:	national organization

01:39:00 – 01:39:02:	to endorse the legalization

01:39:02 – 01:39:04:	of abortion

01:39:04 – 01:39:06:	now you've probably heard some

01:39:06 – 01:39:08:	of that maybe you didn't know she was Jewish

01:39:08 – 01:39:10:	or you don't care

01:39:10 – 01:39:12:	you don't think that means

01:39:12 – 01:39:14:	anything it's not relevant

01:39:14 – 01:39:16:	to this discussion

01:39:16 – 01:39:18:	it will be for a future

01:39:18 – 01:39:22:	resolution on head coverings

01:39:22 – 01:39:24:	whereas the wearing

01:39:24 – 01:39:26:	of a head covering by women

01:39:26 – 01:39:28:	at religious services

01:39:28 – 01:39:30:	is a custom in many churches

01:39:30 – 01:39:32:	and whereas it is a symbol

01:39:32 – 01:39:34:	of subjection, subjection

01:39:34 – 01:39:36:	within these churches

01:39:36 – 01:39:38:	now recommends that all chapters

01:39:38 – 01:39:40:	undertake an effort

01:39:40 – 01:39:42:	to have all women participate

01:39:42 – 01:39:44:	in a national unveiling

01:39:44 – 01:39:46:	by sending their head coverings

01:39:46 – 01:39:48:	immediately at the spring meeting

01:39:48 – 01:39:50:	the task force on women in religion

01:39:50 – 01:39:52:	these will these

01:39:52 – 01:39:54:	veils will then be publicly burned

01:39:54 – 01:39:56:	to protest the second class

01:39:56 – 01:39:58:	citizen of women in all the churches

01:39:58 – 01:40:00:	now holy cow

01:40:00 – 01:40:02:	1968

01:40:02 – 01:40:04:	that's living memory

01:40:04 – 01:40:06:	that means that the boomers

01:40:06 – 01:40:08:	and our congregations

01:40:08 – 01:40:10:	who might be startled

01:40:10 – 01:40:12:	and act like they've never seen

01:40:12 – 01:40:14:	a veil before

01:40:14 – 01:40:16:	they had to be because everyone

01:40:16 – 01:40:18:	was doing it and even now

01:40:18 – 01:40:20:	recognized that it was the

01:40:20 – 01:40:22:	custom in many churches

01:40:22 – 01:40:24:	it was normal

01:40:24 – 01:40:26:	and as one of the most conservative

01:40:26 – 01:40:28:	bodies in the country

01:40:28 – 01:40:30:	it was certainly normal

01:40:30 – 01:40:32:	among confessional Lutherans

01:40:32 – 01:40:34:	so what happened

01:40:34 – 01:40:36:	the Jewish lady

01:40:36 – 01:40:38:	in certain charge of creating

01:40:38 – 01:40:40:	the national organization

01:40:40 – 01:40:42:	for women who was

01:40:42 – 01:40:44:	the mass murder of children

01:40:44 – 01:40:46:	simultaneously in the same year

01:40:46 – 01:40:48:	incinerated

01:40:48 – 01:40:50:	veils in our churches

01:40:50 – 01:40:52:	now

01:40:52 – 01:40:54:	the reason that I mention this

01:40:54 – 01:40:56:	is that

01:40:56 – 01:40:58:	today when the discussion of veiling

01:40:58 – 01:41:00:	which is just

01:41:00 – 01:41:02:	we're just at the cost of this discussion

01:41:02 – 01:41:04:	actually being had in our churches

01:41:04 – 01:41:06:	any pastor you talk to

01:41:06 – 01:41:08:	when you say hey

01:41:08 – 01:41:10:	I'm not going to read the whole thing

01:41:10 – 01:41:12:	I'm going to read first

01:41:12 – 01:41:14:	Corinthians 11

01:41:14 – 01:41:16:	there's an extensive passage

01:41:16 – 01:41:18:	there where God discusses

01:41:18 – 01:41:20:	the nature of men and women

01:41:20 – 01:41:22:	and the headship of a man

01:41:22 – 01:41:24:	over a woman as

01:41:24 – 01:41:26:	of Christ over the church

01:41:26 – 01:41:28:	and the symbol of submission

01:41:28 – 01:41:30:	and piety that the veil

01:41:30 – 01:41:32:	represents

01:41:32 – 01:41:34:	and how it is commanded for girls

01:41:34 – 01:41:36:	to cover their heads in church

01:41:36 – 01:41:38:	that's in scripture

01:41:38 – 01:41:40:	most Lutherans

01:41:40 – 01:41:42:	who are trying to be pious

01:41:42 – 01:41:44:	and you say hey

01:41:44 – 01:41:46:	this thing in scripture

01:41:46 – 01:41:48:	says that we should be doing this practice

01:41:48 – 01:41:50:	the immediate

01:41:50 – 01:41:52:	almost guaranteed response

01:41:52 – 01:41:54:	is going to be to say

01:41:54 – 01:41:56:	well let's go look back at 60 AD

01:41:56 – 01:41:58:	and see what the cultural context was

01:41:58 – 01:42:00:	let's go see what environment

01:42:00 – 01:42:02:	Paul was talking in

01:42:02 – 01:42:04:	now

01:42:04 – 01:42:06:	there are times when that's the right question

01:42:06 – 01:42:08:	for vailing is when it go away

01:42:08 – 01:42:10:	and the answer is a one away

01:42:10 – 01:42:12:	fifty years ago

01:42:12 – 01:42:14:	it went away after

01:42:14 – 01:42:16:	1960 because that was just the kickoff

01:42:16 – 01:42:18:	that was the very first time

01:42:18 – 01:42:20:	there have been an open overt

01:42:20 – 01:42:22:	attack on girls

01:42:22 – 01:42:24:	vailing their heads in church

01:42:24 – 01:42:26:	specifically to liberate them

01:42:26 – 01:42:28:	from the subjugation by men

01:42:28 – 01:42:30:	that's the key point right there

01:42:30 – 01:42:32:	is the adversary knew exactly

01:42:32 – 01:42:34:	what he was doing

01:42:34 – 01:42:36:	precisely

01:42:36 – 01:42:38:	and so it happened after that

01:42:38 – 01:42:40:	it was in the 70s that this stuff went away

01:42:40 – 01:42:42:	and here just 50 years later

01:42:42 – 01:42:44:	suddenly we have to go all the way back

01:42:44 – 01:42:46:	to the first century church

01:42:46 – 01:42:48:	to try to understand it

01:42:48 – 01:42:50:	no we'll all put the link in the show notes

01:42:50 – 01:42:52:	so you can read for yourself

01:42:52 – 01:42:54:	there's a very good Wikipedia article

01:42:54 – 01:42:56:	on Christian head covering

01:42:56 – 01:42:58:	that's the title of you can find yourself

01:42:58 – 01:43:00:	you can follow the link

01:43:00 – 01:43:02:	it goes into detail

01:43:02 – 01:43:04:	and it was universal

01:43:04 – 01:43:06:	not literally universal

01:43:06 – 01:43:08:	it was virtually universal

01:43:08 – 01:43:10:	it was found almost everywhere

01:43:10 – 01:43:12:	for 2000 years

01:43:12 – 01:43:14:	and before that because the Jews

01:43:14 – 01:43:16:	covered their heads too

01:43:16 – 01:43:18:	so it is effectively

01:43:18 – 01:43:20:	it's functionally the universal practice

01:43:20 – 01:43:22:	of believers

01:43:22 – 01:43:24:	the girls are veiled in church

01:43:24 – 01:43:26:	until Betty Goldstein

01:43:26 – 01:43:28:	freed and came along in 1968

01:43:28 – 01:43:30:	and changed church doctrine

01:43:30 – 01:43:32:	pastor's agree with it

01:43:32 – 01:43:34:	and say well that's mon

01:43:34 – 01:43:34:	

01:43:34 – 01:43:36:	that's chauvinistic

01:43:36 – 01:43:38:	that's sexist

01:43:38 – 01:43:40:	they're parading

01:43:40 – 01:43:42:	a Jewish woman

01:43:42 – 01:43:44:	who sacrifice children

01:43:44 – 01:43:46:	to Satan

01:43:46 – 01:43:48:	to her god

01:43:48 – 01:43:50:	they're parading one of the most evil organizations

01:43:50 – 01:43:52:	ever to exist in the history

01:43:52 – 01:43:54:	of the world

01:43:54 – 01:43:56:	and they're doing it in the name of second wave feminism

01:43:56 – 01:43:58:	because that's a good thing

01:43:58 – 01:44:02:	how can you love women

01:44:02 – 01:44:04:	if you want them to cover their heads

01:44:04 – 01:44:06:	how is that not hateful

01:44:06 – 01:44:08:	how is that not a subject

01:44:08 – 01:44:10:	so go read first Corinthians 11

01:44:10 – 01:44:12:	go read the Wikipedia article

01:44:12 – 01:44:14:	and then think about the fact

01:44:14 – 01:44:16:	that church doctrine and practice changed

01:44:16 – 01:44:18:	because of what a pagan organization

01:44:18 – 01:44:20:	did in the 70s

01:44:20 – 01:44:22:	just think about that on your

01:44:22 – 01:44:24:	I'm not going to draw a conclusion for you

01:44:24 – 01:44:26:	when I talk about genealogy of ideas

01:44:26 – 01:44:28:	exactly what I mean

01:44:28 – 01:44:30:	where did this come from

01:44:30 – 01:44:32:	don't tell me it came from scripture

01:44:32 – 01:44:34:	don't try to find a proof text

01:44:34 – 01:44:36:	to sanctify the modern practice

01:44:36 – 01:44:38:	tell me why it went away

01:44:38 – 01:44:40:	after thousands of years

01:44:40 – 01:44:42:	of universal continuous application

01:44:42 – 01:44:44:	why did it disappear

01:44:44 – 01:44:46:	there's only one answer

01:44:46 – 01:44:48:	and it has a name

01:44:48 – 01:44:50:	if pastors or others

01:44:50 – 01:44:52:	want to go back and look at the cultural context

01:44:52 – 01:44:54:	I am perfectly content

01:44:54 – 01:44:56:	because as soon as they're done

01:44:56 – 01:44:58:	with whatever their little spiel is

01:44:58 – 01:45:00:	I'm just going to point out

01:45:00 – 01:45:02:	well actually what it says in scripture here

01:45:02 – 01:45:04:	is that women have the covering

01:45:04 – 01:45:06:	because they are supposed

01:45:06 – 01:45:08:	to have a symbol of authority

01:45:08 – 01:45:10:	so the symbol of authority

01:45:10 – 01:45:12:	is required

01:45:12 – 01:45:14:	that is what scripture says

01:45:14 – 01:45:16:	the example given is the head covering

01:45:16 – 01:45:18:	so if you're offering an alternative

01:45:18 – 01:45:20:	to the head covering that is a symbol of authority

01:45:20 – 01:45:22:	for women to have on them in church

01:45:22 – 01:45:24:	that by all means

01:45:24 – 01:45:26:	please stand in front of the congregation

01:45:26 – 01:45:28:	and announce that

01:45:28 – 01:45:30:	I will support you

01:45:30 – 01:45:32:	but the history of the church is the head covering

01:45:32 – 01:45:34:	and the head covering is good for order

01:45:34 – 01:45:36:	and there is no reason to abandon traditions

01:45:36 – 01:45:38:	that are good

01:45:38 – 01:45:40:	that is a good tradition

01:45:40 – 01:45:42:	it's not merely a tradition

01:45:42 – 01:45:44:	it's a commandment from God

01:45:44 – 01:45:46:	I'm glad you mentioned that

01:45:46 – 01:45:48:	I'm going to read just that one verse

01:45:48 – 01:45:50:	it's right from the middle of first Corinthians 11

01:45:50 – 01:45:52:	I'm going to read the whole thing

01:45:52 – 01:45:54:	but this is just paired

01:45:54 – 01:45:54:	

01:45:54 – 01:45:56:	because I'm going to highlight

01:45:56 – 01:45:58:	one of the arguments that actually

01:45:58 – 01:46:00:	illustrates our point perfectly

01:46:00 – 01:46:02:	that is why a wife ought to have a

01:46:02 – 01:46:04:	symbol of authority on her head

01:46:04 – 01:46:06:	because of the angels

01:46:06 – 01:46:08:	now the insidious false Christian

01:46:08 – 01:46:10:	will read that whole thing

01:46:10 – 01:46:12:	and highlight because of the angels

01:46:12 – 01:46:14:	and say well what does that mean

01:46:14 – 01:46:16:	I'll tell you truthfully

01:46:16 – 01:46:18:	I've read a bunch of different

01:46:18 – 01:46:20:	explanations

01:46:20 – 01:46:22:	I don't know what because of the angels means

01:46:22 – 01:46:24:	and I don't care

01:46:24 – 01:46:26:	that's the entire point

01:46:26 – 01:46:28:	the reason that we did the episode

01:46:28 – 01:46:30:	last week talking about

01:46:30 – 01:46:32:	the perspicuity of scripture

01:46:32 – 01:46:34:	and why it is so

01:46:34 – 01:46:36:	you believe it

01:46:36 – 01:46:38:	and then you try to understand it

01:46:38 – 01:46:40:	and if you don't understand it you still believe it

01:46:40 – 01:46:42:	so when God says

01:46:42 – 01:46:44:	that is why a woman ought to have a wife

01:46:44 – 01:46:46:	ought to have a symbol of authority on her head

01:46:46 – 01:46:48:	that's probably the feminine

01:46:48 – 01:46:50:	probably means wife girl

01:46:50 – 01:46:52:	it's it's it's probably

01:46:52 – 01:46:54:	it's probably in composition of them

01:46:54 – 01:46:56:	she's to have a symbol on her head

01:46:56 – 01:46:58:	and the clause because of the angels

01:46:58 – 01:47:00:	if I don't know what that means

01:47:00 – 01:47:02:	if you don't know what that means

01:47:02 – 01:47:04:	that's not a get out of jail free card

01:47:04 – 01:47:06:	you can't say well that could mean anything

01:47:06 – 01:47:08:	so this doesn't apply

01:47:08 – 01:47:10:	because it's not like he said

01:47:10 – 01:47:12:	because of the Roman laws

01:47:12 – 01:47:14:	or because of the Egyptians

01:47:14 – 01:47:16:	talking about something material

01:47:16 – 01:47:18:	he was talking about something immortal

01:47:18 – 01:47:20:	when he says because of the angels

01:47:20 – 01:47:22:	if we don't have an explanation

01:47:22 – 01:47:24:	all we have to know is that

01:47:24 – 01:47:26:	the because of

01:47:26 – 01:47:28:	was intended to be explanatory

01:47:28 – 01:47:30:	even if it's not explanatory

01:47:30 – 01:47:32:	it's not the justification

01:47:32 – 01:47:34:	the justification is that God said it

01:47:34 – 01:47:36:	and when he specifically says

01:47:36 – 01:47:38:	because of the angels

01:47:38 – 01:47:40:	and he's referring to something eternal

01:47:40 – 01:47:40:	

01:47:40 – 01:47:42:	even if you have no idea what that means

01:47:42 – 01:47:44:	the angels haven't changed

01:47:44 – 01:47:46:	so whatever Paul was talking about

01:47:46 – 01:47:48:	hasn't changed

01:47:48 – 01:47:50:	it applied then it applies now

01:47:50 – 01:47:52:	it applies in heaven

01:47:52 – 01:47:54:	it applies everywhere

01:47:54 – 01:47:56:	because girls do not stop having a head

01:47:56 – 01:47:58:	that is their husband or their father

01:47:58 – 01:48:00:	it is always going to be there

01:48:00 – 01:48:02:	my father will always be my father

01:48:02 – 01:48:04:	even in heaven

01:48:04 – 01:48:06:	that doesn't change

01:48:06 – 01:48:08:	headship doesn't change

01:48:08 – 01:48:10:	God is a God of hierarchy

01:48:10 – 01:48:12:	there will still be ranks

01:48:12 – 01:48:14:	and when this alludes

01:48:14 – 01:48:16:	to the passage about

01:48:16 – 01:48:18:	there being neither marriage nor giving in marriage

01:48:18 – 01:48:20:	I think that that's clearly

01:48:20 – 01:48:22:	about procreation

01:48:22 – 01:48:24:	and not specifically about the relationship

01:48:24 – 01:48:26:	because the fourth commandment demonstrates

01:48:26 – 01:48:28:	that those relationships are preserved

01:48:28 – 01:48:30:	they're the return all

01:48:30 – 01:48:32:	you have a father and a mother will

01:48:32 – 01:48:34:	if you say that no

01:48:34 – 01:48:36:	neither marriage nor giving in marriage means that she's not

01:48:36 – 01:48:38:	when she's my mom

01:48:38 – 01:48:40:	she's my dad but they have no relation

01:48:40 – 01:48:42:	no I can't accept that

01:48:42 – 01:48:44:	these are eternal matters

01:48:44 – 01:48:46:	and their eternal commands because again

01:48:46 – 01:48:48:	it's the eternal will of God

01:48:48 – 01:48:50:	that these things

01:48:50 – 01:48:52:	be practiced and passed down

01:48:52 – 01:48:54:	as tradition

01:48:54 – 01:48:56:	because they're necessary

01:48:56 – 01:48:58:	the word there in first Corinthians

01:48:58 – 01:49:00:	is in fact Gune

01:49:00 – 01:49:02:	it is wife or woman

01:49:04 – 01:49:06:	and so as we close out this episode

01:49:06 – 01:49:08:	I want to go over

01:49:08 – 01:49:10:	a few quick housekeeping matters

01:49:10 – 01:49:12:	and then a sort of summary

01:49:12 – 01:49:14:	of

01:49:14 – 01:49:16:	not just the episode but also

01:49:16 – 01:49:18:	generally what we are doing

01:49:18 – 01:49:20:	with this podcast

01:49:20 – 01:49:22:	and so you may have noticed

01:49:22 – 01:49:24:	this is a slightly different episode type

01:49:24 – 01:49:26:	it was a sort of grab bag

01:49:26 – 01:49:28:	we are going over

01:49:28 – 01:49:30:	various questions

01:49:30 – 01:49:32:	issues in Christianity

01:49:32 – 01:49:34:	in this particular episode

01:49:34 – 01:49:36:	for things that are in Scripture

01:49:36 – 01:49:38:	but the church is largely abandoned

01:49:38 – 01:49:40:	in the future

01:49:40 – 01:49:42:	this episode type

01:49:42 – 01:49:44:	we may also be answering questions

01:49:44 – 01:49:46:	or concerns from listeners

01:49:46 – 01:49:48:	and so toward that end

01:49:48 – 01:49:50:	we now have a feedback form

01:49:50 – 01:49:52:	you can go to the website

01:49:52 – 01:49:54:	stone-quire.com

01:49:54 – 01:49:56:	I just set up that form

01:49:56 – 01:49:58:	very simple form right now

01:49:58 – 01:50:00:	maybe a little more complicated in the future

01:50:00 – 01:50:02:	but feel free to send us

01:50:02 – 01:50:04:	questions, concerns

01:50:04 – 01:50:06:	hate mail if you are so inclined

01:50:06 – 01:50:08:	whatever you feel like sending

01:50:08 – 01:50:10:	and so that is

01:50:10 – 01:50:12:	pretty much the housekeeping

01:50:12 – 01:50:14:	I may make a separate feed

01:50:14 – 01:50:16:	for these episodes for those who want to have them

01:50:16 – 01:50:18:	segregated out from the regular ones

01:50:18 – 01:50:20:	so if you have

01:50:20 – 01:50:22:	concerns or questions

01:50:22 – 01:50:24:	you want to quickly look at an episode

01:50:24 – 01:50:26:	you can sort of differentiate the

01:50:26 – 01:50:28:	types of episodes that we have

01:50:28 – 01:50:30:	and the housekeeping

01:50:30 – 01:50:32:	done

01:50:32 – 01:50:34:	as a sort of summary

01:50:34 – 01:50:36:	of what we are doing here

01:50:36 – 01:50:40:	ultimately we are defending the truth

01:50:40 – 01:50:42:	and we are defending the truth

01:50:42 – 01:50:44:	in this particular episode

01:50:44 – 01:50:46:	by defending things

01:50:46 – 01:50:48:	that are in Scripture

01:50:48 – 01:50:50:	that are often very clear

01:50:50 – 01:50:52:	in Scripture

01:50:52 – 01:50:54:	and that modern Christians

01:50:54 – 01:50:56:	have abandoned or in some cases

01:50:56 – 01:51:00:	when it comes to shaking the dust off your sandals

01:51:00 – 01:51:04:	and we defend these things

01:51:04 – 01:51:06:	because Satan today is attacking

01:51:06 – 01:51:08:	the first article

01:51:08 – 01:51:10:	during the Reformation

01:51:10 – 01:51:12:	and in the century or two

01:51:12 – 01:51:14:	leading up to the Reformation

01:51:14 – 01:51:16:	Satan was attacking the second article

01:51:16 – 01:51:18:	Satan was attacking justification

01:51:18 – 01:51:20:	he was attacking

01:51:20 – 01:51:22:	the heart of the faith

01:51:22 – 01:51:24:	but

01:51:24 – 01:51:26:	if we lose the first article

01:51:26 – 01:51:28:	we lose the faith

01:51:28 – 01:51:30:	no less certainly

01:51:30 – 01:51:32:	than if we had lost the second article

01:51:32 – 01:51:34:	during the Middle Ages

01:51:34 – 01:51:38:	because when you fight over truth

01:51:38 – 01:51:40:	what is truth

01:51:40 – 01:51:42:	well God is truth

01:51:42 – 01:51:44:	and so if you abandon the truth

01:51:44 – 01:51:46:	ultimately

01:51:46 – 01:51:48:	what you are actually abandoning

01:51:48 – 01:51:50:	is God

01:51:50 – 01:51:52:	because to deny any truth

01:51:52 – 01:51:54:	is to deny

01:51:54 – 01:51:56:	all truth

01:51:56 – 01:51:58:	that is why

01:51:58 – 01:52:02:	we are fighting for these seemingly minor issues

01:52:02 – 01:52:06:	because when it comes down to it

01:52:06 – 01:52:10:	fighting over whether or not a woman wears a veil in church

01:52:10 – 01:52:12:	is a relatively minor issue

01:52:12 – 01:52:14:	in and of itself

01:52:14 – 01:52:16:	but it is not a minor issue

01:52:16 – 01:52:18:	because of what it represents

01:52:18 – 01:52:20:	if you get it wrong

01:52:20 – 01:52:22:	and ignoring it

01:52:22 – 01:52:24:	incidentally is getting it wrong

01:52:24 – 01:52:26:	because the veil

01:52:26 – 01:52:28:	is a marker of headship

01:52:28 – 01:52:30:	and so if you get the veil wrong

01:52:30 – 01:52:32:	you get headship wrong

01:52:32 – 01:52:34:	the veil and headship

01:52:34 – 01:52:36:	are both truths

01:52:36 – 01:52:38:	if you get those wrong

01:52:38 – 01:52:40:	you get truth wrong

01:52:40 – 01:52:42:	if you get that wrong

01:52:42 – 01:52:44:	you lose God

01:52:44 – 01:52:46:	there are no small doctrinal errors

01:52:46 – 01:52:48:	and that is why they are all

01:52:48 – 01:52:50:	every hill

01:52:50 – 01:52:52:	when it comes to scripture is worth dying on

01:52:54 – 01:52:56:	so where scripture is silent

01:52:56 – 01:52:58:	we

01:52:58 – 01:53:00:	do not necessarily have to speak

01:53:00 – 01:53:02:	we can speak

01:53:02 – 01:53:04:	it is a matter of wisdom

01:53:04 – 01:53:06:	where scripture is silent

01:53:06 – 01:53:08:	where scripture is not silent

01:53:08 – 01:53:10:	we are not permitted

01:53:10 – 01:53:12:	to be silent

01:53:12 – 01:53:14:	those who decline

01:53:14 – 01:53:16:	to defend the truth

01:53:16 – 01:53:18:	sin in so doing

01:53:18 – 01:53:20:	and they risk losing

01:53:20 – 01:53:22:	God

01:53:22 – 01:53:24:	fight the good fight

01:53:46 – 01:53:48:	fight the good fight