Transcript: Episode 0048

This transcript:
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Welcome to the Stone Choir podcast. I am Corey J. Mahler.

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And I'm still woe.

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On this episode of Stone Choir, we're going to be doing something that we have not done

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previously. We were asked by the folks at Anelope Hill if they would discuss one of their

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publications with us, a book that they've published. And we're happy to do that. It's

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not something anyone's ever asked us to do before. I'm excited about it. It was a very

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interesting book to read. I was happy to read it. It's kind of funny looking at the table

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of contents and then reading through it. It's in a lot of ways, it's kind of an overview

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of much of the content that Stone Choir has covered in our first year of producing this

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podcast. So I think that the specific subject of today's book, which is titled The Sword

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of Christ by Giles Corey, very much dovetails with kind of the home turf for Stone Choir.

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Today with us also for the first time, we have a guest from the editorial team at Anelope

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Hill. So if you just introduce yourself and your company, I'm curious, how did you come

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to reach out to us and how did you come to publish this book in particular and why do

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you think it would be a good fit? Certainly. So my name is Taylor. I'm part of the editorial

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team at Anelope Hill. That's kind of a long question. But we publish the book because

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we find that it fits our mission. And we started about three years ago. Now we just recently

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celebrated our third birthday with the intention of making available books that are difficult

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to obtain or censored or ones that just aren't available in English and specifically in the

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rightist political tradition and that have to do with the philosophy and history of Europe

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and its diaspora. So that's where it started. And since then we've really in our based on

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our expectations, we've been amazingly successful in the kinds of works that we've been able

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to translate as well as the kinds of authors that we've been able to inspire to come publish

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with us. So I personally don't remember exactly how this one ended up with us. But as soon

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as we got it, we I was actually one of the people who reviewed it initially and I was

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very, very interested. So, you know, within kind of our mission statement, we'll publish

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different authors. We've published Protestant authors, Catholic authors, secular authors

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as well. But, you know, as long as it contributes toward that goal of making available books

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that have important ideas and important facts, and that can make a contribution to understanding

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the history and contributing to the current struggle of our people, then it's something

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we're interested in. So me personally, I'm a Protestant in the Calvinist tradition.

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So for that, I actually don't remember, maybe I shouldn't admit this, but I don't remember

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off the top of my head if Giles Corey necessarily approaches this book from a specific Christian

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tradition and what it is. But I mean, I think that's that recommends it in some ways, because

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the topics he deals with are relevant to all of Christendom and all of Christian history,

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especially European and white Christian history. So in a lot of ways, it is exactly the

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kind of book that I've always thought should exist, one that deals very specifically with

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issues like Christian Zionism and addresses the interaction between ethno-nationalism and

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Christianity and kind of is intended as a weapon to help us come to grips with the extreme

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liberalization that's taken place in the church. And as to why I'm here, well, I mean, I was

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I've been aware of you guys and your podcast for a while now back when I had a Twitter

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account before Elon banned me again. I followed you guys. I checked out a couple of the podcasts

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and I just thought that honestly, it would be something that I think like you said, it

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would be interesting to you and your audience just based off of how similar it is to what

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you guys talk about. So very happy and very grateful to have the opportunity to come on

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here and share it with you guys.

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We appreciate your time. And I've I was taking a look through the catalog for Manila O'Pillow. Your

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name has come up for, I think, pretty much since you came on the scene. And it's very an

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interesting collection. Obviously, as you said, you know, most the vast majority of the books, I

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think, are focused specifically on politics. And there tends to be at least, in cursorly, it looks

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like there was a lot of focus around kind of the history of fascism and in things around that in

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the 20th century, which is valuable, because that's one of those things that such a dirty word,

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you know, people use it as an epithet, but no one can define it. And so I'm very grateful that

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you've produced and published and reprinted a number of works that, you know, are just in many

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cases from the men who were on the ground in those days. So I would, I would commend folks who

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are listening will obviously put a link in the show notes to this book. And I should say up front,

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we're not getting paid anything for this, we want nothing for it. They asked, and so we're happy

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to do it. I think that's probably the approach we'll always take. I mean, this is a fringe

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podcast that has no monetary value, really. And so I honestly would not want to be in a situation

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where I wanted someone's commercial success to be hinged to what people thought of our podcast. So

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in the future, you know, with this or anything else we ever do or refer, if we're going to get

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anything from it, we'll tell you we'll be transparent. But this is just entirely because

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it's such a great, there's so much synergy between, again, the topic of this book and

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what Ann Lowe Pill is trying to do. I want to just briefly read the introduction to the book,

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because it is really in a lot of ways almost kind of one of the underlying mission statements of

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Stone Choir as well. This is from The Preface by Giles Corey.

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The hatred for Christianity on the right truly pains me. This is the reason that I wrote this

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book. I fully understand the hatred. For as I argue in my introductory essay, there's very little

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to praise about organized Christianity today. If anything, organized Christianity, including

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the Catholic Church, in each of the Protestant denominations, has indeed become yet another

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instrument of white genocide. Organized Christianity has capitulated and bent the need of Satan's

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coalition of the damned, thereby turning its back on our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

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I despise the organized Christianity, too, for this reason. But usurp, though the mantle of the

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Church may be, that is no reason to simply abandon the faith. So many of us who observe the collapse

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of the Church into anti-white leftism have been led to the facile conclusion that Christianity

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itself is irredeemable. It isn't. Christianity does not even need redemption, for our faith

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remains what it has always been. The fairsacal teachers of false doctrine, whom we witness on

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parade today, simply are not Christians, no matter what they may say. Remember Paul's warning,

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for such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of

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Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore,

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it is no great thing if the ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness,

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whose end shall be according to their works, from Southern Corinthians 11.

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And he continues on the next page. The same sense of illiteracy lies behind the more absurd

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contention that Christianity is some far-off, life-denying, suicidal Jewish sigh-up. First,

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if this was true, why after nearly 2,000 years did organized Christianity only betray its race

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and civilization in the 20th century, after the Jewish coup that was accomplished in no small part

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by the creation and promotion of the heresy of Christian Zionism?

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So that's really kind of the thesis of the book itself. I do take issue with the phrase

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organized religion, organized Christianity. That's a modern term that emerged in the 20th century,

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really as things were starting to go to pot. But I think he's absolutely correct when he recognizes

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that when those on the right who are not Christian critique Christianity, they're only looking at

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what it is now and not what has been for 1,900 years. And so I'm in complete degree with the

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author that, and that's the thesis of Stone Choir as well, Christianity doesn't change. So if we

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have problems today caused by doctrine changing, that's what we need to fix. And personally, I

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think that it's one of the weaknesses that a lot of modern discourse has. From the pagan right,

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you have folks saying, oh, Christianity did this. And then there are folks who agree with the author

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and say, well, that's only the organized portion. That's just like denominations or whatever. I

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don't take that view. And to be clear, when we go through this and we level criticisms and

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critiques to some of the things, it's in no way saying it's a bad book. It's a really good book.

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And in particular, I just wanted to highlight this upfront, because it doesn't really color

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his actual conclusions or his arguments. But it's a term that he uses that we hear a lot. And

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you had mentioned earlier, you weren't sure if he came from a particular denominational background.

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He never says this at any point in the book. He does speak favorably of Eastern Orthodoxy,

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but I didn't get the sense that he was Eastern Orthodox. But again, it's immaterial to the book.

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So this is why we're all here. I want the future of our people to be a Christian future.

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And I want to be one where our people are intact, where our race is intact. And I'm very thankful

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that Ann Lopil has published this book, because not many of the books are even if some are by

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Christian authors, they're not overly about Christian subjects, which is fine. But part of

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the reason that Corey and I started Stone Choir was to inject Christian discussions from informed

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Christian men into a space where it's largely absent. And most of what we do see from Christian

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men is completely disastrous. So that's just the introduction of the book. And I think it's a very

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good introduction to what it is we're going to be talking about here today.

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From reading through the book and really looking at the citations or the references and also the

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ones that were not included notably, I get the general sense that he is reformed of some variety.

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Although I couldn't necessarily say that I know which particular one, but that would be

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my take away as to which tradition to which he belongs. However, that's not really what comes

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through in the book. He's not making a specific argument for any particular Christian tradition,

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which is why when I hear a critique of organized religion or organized Christianity,

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I really hear echoes of 0.24 of the 25 point program of the National Socialists, the notorious

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one as it were about positive Christianity, because it's the same general sense. It's

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opposition to the corrupted and subverted churches of the day as organizations. So

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organizational in that sense, I wouldn't take it to mean necessarily that organized Christianity

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is a problem. I don't think that he's advocating that. I know that there are those who do advocate

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that, and that's wrong. The church is an organization. The church has always been an

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organization. The church will always be an organization. The fact that the modern organizational

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church, the various corporate entities have been subverted, does not mean that the organization

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of the church is the problem. And I'm not saying that he's arguing that. I don't believe that he is.

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It's the same sort of problem that was faced in the previous century, where the church had also

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been subverted not to the same degree as today. Certainly, the churches today have been more

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subverted. Satan has had more time to perfect the same sort of subversion, really. It's not even

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of a different kind. It's just taken to a different degree. It's taken to a different level,

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because again, he's had more time to perfect it, and he has more men working for him now,

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unfortunately. But as for the book itself, I also would recommend it. It is a good book. It is

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worth reading. I will note, we did get our copies for free. So that is, in so far as there's any

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sort of incentive we had, we got a copy for free. But that's, for us, that's not an incentive.

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I would have bought the book anyway. And quite frankly, if we got a book for free and didn't

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like it, we would tell you that. Because, well, that's just the sort of people we are. I think

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everyone listening to this podcast knows by now that we're quite comfortable saying that a book

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is not good if it's not good. In this case, of course, we're not famous for mincing words.

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No, I don't think anyone tunes in to hear us add nuance. When it comes to this

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book, there are obviously, there are some things with which we are going to disagree,

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particularly as, it's not even necessarily particularly as Lutherans, but maybe as

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megastirial Protestants. There will be a handful of things, but he doesn't really get into specifics

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of denominational distinctive say or any of that. That's not the point of the book.

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The general points, the general chapter and section headings are things with which any

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Christian should be able to agree. And the same holds for almost all of his concluding points

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in the last bit. He has eight points that he goes through. The main parts of the book are

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the Christian questions. So Christianity as it relates to the, to the West, as it relates to

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the white race, is Christianity a positive? Is Christianity a negative? That's relevant for

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all Christians as relevant for anyone living in the West. It's relevant for anyone who is white.

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And then there's, of course, the heresy of Christian Zionism. We would agree. That's

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how we would phrase that. Incidentally, that's one of the things where we have not yet done an

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episode. We've discussed it. It's come up tangentially, but we will do an episode on that.

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We will try to do it in the near future because obviously, for various reasons, it is quite relevant

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today. And as we go down the list, there, all of these things are salient issues in the church

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today with which any Christian, any, I'm just going to say any Christian, I'd say any Christian on

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our side, but there are no Christians on the other side. So any Christian should be able to agree with

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these things. And yes, we're going to have some minor differences and perhaps, dare I use the word

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nuance, but by and large, this is a good book for an overview of many of the things we have been

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discussing on various episodes during the course of the past year. And just in general, things that

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are relevant to the political right, specifically with regard to Christianity. His mission statement

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talks about how those who carry the false doctrines that he talks about simply are not

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Christians. And when I was reading the book, that really stood out to me because it echoed something

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that I had experienced a lot. I've been a Christian my whole life. I used to be a lot more a Pentecostal

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kind of came from that branch, I guess you would say. And obviously, there's, you know, we can all

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understand, there's a lot of kind of temperamentally conservative or politically conservative Christians

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who, you know, they'll see things like some denomination or like some church

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out there will, you know, accept homosexuality or they'll accept having gay clergy or they'll

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promote Black Lives Matter or something like that. And they'll reject it, of course, they'll

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say that that's wrong. And they'll say, well, those people just aren't Christians. And in my

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experience, what they mean when they say that is it's a dismissal of the fact that there's

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any battle to be fought at all, basically, it's just saying, well, I'm saying in my mind to myself

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that like this person just doesn't count as a Christian. And therefore, I don't have to worry

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about it. And it's not my problem. And it's probably also just comes from a feeling of

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powerlessness, because both politically and probably theologically that they don't feel like

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they have a theological justification for fighting it. So in my mind, I think it is

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important for ordinary Christians like that to understand that while I obviously agree that,

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you know, when you identify false doctrines, it's appropriate to say that at some point,

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those people simply are not Christians, because they are not living out Christianity at the same

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time as I think the author recognizes, there is such a thing as just Christianity as a whole,

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as a phenomenon that's present in the culture and society. And if it was pretty much what he

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discusses, at least in the first part of the book, the way that it is increasingly manifesting as an

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anti white force. I think it's just important to understand that that, you know, that that is the

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perception that a lot of people have of Christianity, when they when they think of Christianity,

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that that's the only reference point for it that they have. And this really does call us to fight

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against that and to reform it or, you know, destroy it or whatever, however you may want to put it.

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But I think that in my own experience, this is a question that I think is very difficult for a

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lot of Christians to think about and grapple with. And I think, again, one thing that I like about

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the book is how direct it is at addressing this and saying, Well, you know, we're not rejecting

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the faith, we are in fact embracing and putting forth the true faith. And it is important to do

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this because that which calls itself Christianity, that cultural manifestation, that cultural phenomenon

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that calls itself Christianity is increasingly just has has absolutely nothing to do with what

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Christianity really is. Yeah, I agree completely. It's necessary for faithful men to stand and fight

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where we are, whatever denomination that is, and as these things come among us, we have to do something

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about it. We can't just, you're right, we can't just say, Well, that guy's irrelevant because he has

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bad doctrine. Well, if they're in positions of power, then they're going to do unspeakable harm

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with their power. The first chapter, Christianity today begins by discussing the complicity of

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all the major denominations in the so called refugee crisis, which is it is a crisis, it's a

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civilizational crisis, but these are not refugees, these are for the churches, they're money makers,

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these are industrial operations where they are getting paid by states and by other NGOs,

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including Lutherans, Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists. Pretty much everybody is in on the

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grift and they're doing it in the name of God. They're using false scriptural arguments to say,

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Yes, we must overrun Europe and we must overrun America and anywhere that any white homelands

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on the planet must necessarily be overrun by the third world because Jesus, because Jesus went to

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Egypt, therefore you need infinity Africans in your country and whatever happens to your community

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and your family, well, you should just love them and that's not a gospel matter. That's a huge

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problem. It is a seminal problem. It's one of the, as he says in the preface, as we've said

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elsewhere, it's one of the principal reasons that a lot of guys on the right who are, maybe they've

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left the church or were never in the church, actively hate Christianity because that's all

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that they see. I absolutely agree. It's necessary to document this is evil and it's coming from

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inside our own houses, Christians, but it is not Christian. In the first chapter, he does a good

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job laying out some of the history and the basic details of those things happening. The other part

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of that, that's a key part of the whole argument that runs throughout much of the book, is that

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anti-racism is a core of the religion that these people espouse as they import the third world

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rapists and murderers into our neighborhoods. He holds up as an example the Southern Baptist

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Convention, which is similarly conservative to the LCMS and has been going down very much the same

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path as our denomination has in the last few years. I was fascinated. I never really paid

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attention to other denominations too much and so I was ignorant of some of these things, but

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there were a few Russell Moore quotes that he introduced beginning about 2015 through 2017

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and I think a bit newer than that. I'm going to read these, but the reason they smacked me in the

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face was some of them are virtually verbatim the attacks from within the LCMS leadership

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against Korea and me forced on choir. So these are from Russell Moore in the Southern Baptist

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Convention. He writes, many of those who have criticized Mr. Trump's vision for America have

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faced threats and intimidation from the quote alt-right of white supremacists and nativists

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who hide behind avatars on social media. Another quote, at his 2017 meeting the Southern Baptist

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adopted another noxious resolution quote on the anti-gospel of alt-right white supremacy.

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That's pretty much verbatim from the street that Matt Harrison released in February attacking us.

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And the last quote I wanted to mention, the church should call white supremacy what it is,

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terrorism. But more than terrorism, white supremacy is satanism, even worse than satanism.

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White supremacy is a devil worship that often pretends that it is speaking for God

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with false sobriety more closed to his editorial by stating, quote,

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white supremacy angers Jesus of Nazareth. The question is, does it anger his church?

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And this is again, these were charges leveled against Korea and me by the leadership of the

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Missouri Senate. They called the FBI and accused us of terrorism for talking about this stuff.

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So I was fascinated to see Russell Moore saying the same thing about Baptist. It's the same playbook.

23:22.720 --> 23:26.960
It's exactly the same slander, the same lies. Interestingly, as the

23:27.760 --> 23:34.160
Stone Choir Telegram chat has grown, a number of people who have joined, have told me both

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there and privately and elsewhere that one of the episodes of Stone Choir, they introduced

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them to us and kind of got them hooked in some cases, was the four hour death march that we did,

23:45.360 --> 23:51.280
describing the events that the Missouri Senate had taken against the four men

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who initially exposed some of the most current evil going on within our denomination.

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And they resonated with them from other denominations because they've seen the same

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thing. So I very much appreciated Giles' mention of a lot of these things just because to me,

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they were, it was the first time I was seeing them. It was no surprise because of course,

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we all know that these guys are running a playbook and it's not, it's a supernatural playbook,

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which is why I doubt that Russell Moore hangs out with Matt Harrison. Yet when it comes to

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spiritually, they are bosom buddies. They have the same God and they're preaching the same religion,

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but it's not a Christian religion. So there's a great deal of research that he has done in

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this book that I find very valuable because it's filling in a lot of blanks that personally I

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didn't, I wasn't aware of. And I think for readers who pick up the book, I think that it will do a

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really good job of fleshing out exactly what's going on with the so-called refugee crisis.

24:49.120 --> 24:54.880
You see these things on TV and you see them showing up and how are there Somalis in Minnesota?

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Well, it's because the Catholics and the Lutherans in Minnesota that explicitly imported them.

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Yes, the government helped and the government was doing some of it, but it was church bodies that

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were doing the rest. And they're doing that not only in our name, but they're doing it with our

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money. And so I think that as readers read through this book, which again, we commend, I hope that

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I'd love to see Stone Choir listeners sell this thing out just because it's an important asset

25:19.680 --> 25:25.600
for folks to have to have some of the material just lay out, here's exactly what's been going on.

25:25.600 --> 25:30.560
And it's a great resource because it's a book that's in one thing that you could hand to someone

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else in many ways, a synopsis of a lot of things that we cover on Stone Choir. So as we've said

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before, the nice thing about having a podcast or a book or an article is you can hand it to a friend,

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kind of noncommittally. You don't have to say, this is the most important thing in the world,

25:45.920 --> 25:49.840
you have to agree with every word of this. You can just say, hey, check this out. There's some

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amazing stuff in here. I'm not even sure what to think. That's a nice passive way of broaching a

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subject that can be very upsetting and just say, look, these seem like facts to me when I look

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stuff up and checks out. I'm glad you mentioned the longest episode we've done and quite frankly,

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probably the longest episode we will do because we'll do what we've done with other topics,

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split them into multiple episodes into a series. If we're going to go that long on a particular

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subject, that one, it made sense to simply sit down and get it done, to do it in one go. But

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we really went through and aired the dirty laundry of our Synod, our church, because it's important.

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These are things that are being done in our name and as Woe said with our money,

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but they're also being done in public to a certain degree. Yes, they'd like to keep some

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of this underhanded. They don't want you to know exactly what they're doing. But these are public

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sins and public sins have to be rebuked publicly. You do not go to a man privately, you can do this

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as well, but you do not exclusively go to a man privately to rebuke him for his public sins.

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For his public sins, you rebuke him publicly. And the reason we see this agreement across

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denominations, across traditions, across churches with men who do not talk to one another, who

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probably in some cases don't even know the existence of one another, unless perhaps Russell Moore

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happened to see the fact that Matt Harrison spoke before Congress at one point. These are not men

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who attend the same country clubs. They obviously don't attend the same churches. The reason they

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have this same script is as we have said in a number of episodes, I'm not going to go and search,

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so I know how many times we've used the phrase, but there is an animating intelligence behind all

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of this evil. Satan is running a playbook and he has developed it over a course of millennia.

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He is perfected at this point. Satan, at the very least, seems to believe that he is in the end game.

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Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. We are not going to speculate on whether or not that's the case.

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Woe is going to lean more toward it being the end game. I'm going to lean more in the other

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direction. One of the few places where we disagree a little bit. But no man knows the day or the hour.

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Satan seems to be acting as if he's playing for all the marbles right now. And so he has

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all of his pieces in play. He has all of his units on the board. That's why we see the full

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court press. That's why we see this happening in every single denomination and tradition.

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And that's an important point. The churches have been the very last thing to be subverted.

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Oftentimes, if you're speaking to a neopagan or someone who has a particular animus toward the

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church, perhaps with warrant, I won't say it's unwarranted, but has this particular hatred of

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the church, will point out that the modern churches have been subverted. That's true. But show me

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something in our society that has not been subverted. The churches held out the longest. They

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were subverted last. All of the things we've gone over in previous episodes, when it comes to

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subversion of the culture and corruption of all of our institutions, happened before the church

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was corrupted. The church stood against this for a very long time. Satan has been trying all these

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attacks for centuries. The church has rebuffed them all until today. He finally figured out

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the best way to subvert the church, and he is actively working to do so, to bring that to

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completion. And that is the war that we're actually fighting. Because if he wins over the churches

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in sort of a full sense, if he wins that particular engagement, if he wins that battle

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of the larger war, then he's won. Because the church is in point of fact the last bastion,

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the last thing standing against his complete victory. And Taylor, you mentioned the issue where

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what is a Christian, basically, is the question. What does it mean for someone to be a true Christian

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or a false Christian? Is there such a thing as a false Christian? Are these people who hold these

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false beliefs Christians or not? And we went over this in the episode on the Jews, the first

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in the series specifically dealing with the Jews, episode 34, and that is the No Scotsman fallacy.

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We went over it there, but I'll go over it again briefly here. There is such a thing as a Christian.

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Just as there is such a thing as a Scotsman, the reason that you have the fallacy is because there

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is such a thing as the thing to which you are applying the fallacy. To make that clear, a Scotsman

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is a member of the nation, of the race, of the Scottish. If you find a Scottish man who does

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something you don't like and say, oh, well, he's no true Scotsman, no, he's still a Scotsman.

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You just don't like what he's doing. But that doesn't change the fact there is such a thing

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as a Scotsman. If there is an Indian in Scotland, he's not a Scotsman. No matter if he's doing

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things you like or don't, he's probably doing things you don't like. But he's not a Scotsman.

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There is such a thing, though. The same thing applies to Christianity. In the case of the

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Scotsman, it is a matter of blood. In the case of Christianity, it is a matter of tenets,

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because Christianity is a religion, it is an ideology, in the broader sense of that term.

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It has a number of tenets, core ones, to which you must assent, to which you must agree, or you

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are not a Christian, because that is the definition of what it means to be a Christian. Conveniently,

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the Church historically has reduced this to the confessions, to the creeds.

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We are able to point to something and say, this is what it means to be a Christian.

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And to a man, every single one of our enemies cannot actually recite the creeds and believe

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what he's saying, because he fundamentally rejects things in the creeds. Now, of course,

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as we have brought up a number of times in the past on this show,

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Satan has figured out that it is more effective for him to attack the Church from the side.

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Basically, he's flanking the Church. As Will pointed out in a previous episode,

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you have the Magi Note Line. Satan is going around it. He's not going to smash his face

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into the wall. He's not going to attack us on, for instance, the deity of Christ.

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He's tried that in the past, centuries past. The creeds have made very clear

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what we believe with regard to that. Read the Athanasian Creed.

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However, that is not where Satan is attacking us today,

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because that's where we have our defenses. We have very good defenses

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for those big heresies of the past, the things where you had someone who denied that Christ

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is God or said Christ was created or said that there are three essences or any of a number of

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things. We have all of the responses to these reduced to formulae that we can recite, that we

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do recite in church. And that's good, because we are rejecting the false teachings of the past.

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As Will has mentioned before, the reason we have the creeds

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is because the heresies arose. We would not have needed the creeds if the heresies had not arisen.

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And so when someone says that all while the creeds aren't in Scripture,

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every single part of the creeds is in Scripture. And we've passed around documents before detailing

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which verses correspond with which parts of the Creed.

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No, the creeds themselves, word for word, are not in Scripture, and the reason for that is, again,

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the heresy had not arisen yet. You don't need to address the heresy until the heresy is a live

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issue, usually a widespread issue in the case of some of these. And so Satan is attacking us

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where we don't have a Creed. We have responses in Scripture,

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but you actually have to be familiar with Scripture in order to formulate these,

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in order to respond to what he is doing. And most men are not equipped to do that,

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and particularly not so when the supposed leaders of the Church are deliberately misleading the

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flock. And so Satan is attacking us on issues like race and nation, and what is an enemy?

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What is a friend? What does it mean to love our enemies? Because these are issues we don't have

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in a Creed. We have answers in Scripture, we have answers in many of the Church Fathers,

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incidentally, but most men are not going to be able, in the first case, to formulate the response,

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or in the second, simply to have read, well, it's quite a lot of information actually,

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it's many thousands of pages, to read the Church Fathers. And so Satan is attacking us

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where he believes us to be weak. And he's right. The institutional Church is very weak on these

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issues. And so part of what we need to do, and part of why it's important to have books like this,

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is we need to respond to these issues where the Church doesn't just have a one-page answer,

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the Church doesn't have, here's the Apostles Creed, that's my response, here's the Athanasian

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Creed, that's my response. We need something like that. It has not been developed yet,

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it has not been put forth. And unfortunately, we're a little short on truly competent theologians

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these days. However, that doesn't mean that we can't have an answer to these questions.

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It just means we don't have something that rises to the level of a Creed. But we do have things

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like this book that will go over Christian Zionism, that will go over somewhat briefly, but still in

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a useful and important way, what it means to be a racialist, why that's compatible with Christianity.

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These are the things we need to know, because this is the field on which Satan is currently

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fighting. And if you're a faithful soldier, you have to be on the field where the battle is actually

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joined. This is something that is reflected in chapter two of the book, Christianity Yesterday

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and Tomorrow. He has a couple quotes from Victor Craig that I want to read here, because I think

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they make an important point that goes along with some of what you just said, kind of from a different

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direction. But again, much of his audience is perhaps unbelievers who don't know some of these

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things about the church or about church history. But I also hope that a lot of believers will pick

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up the book, because as we get into some of the later chapters, there's a great deal of information.

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Some of which is so horrifying that I don't think we'll even go into much detail about it. I should

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mention, I forgot to mention up front, family's fathers, if you're listening with kids, be sure

37:35.680 --> 37:41.600
to check the show notes before you get into the later part of this episode, just to see the details

37:41.600 --> 37:46.480
on what we get into. We didn't discuss yet how much we'll go into, but there's definitely stuff that

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is not child-friendly if we talk about it. Anyway, Victor Craig writes,

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the same revolutionary forces that undermine Europe's civilizational and racial identity

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have only recently succeeded in undermining its religious identity. Therefore, to condemn the

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church for what amounts to an 11th hour conversion to a movement that has adamantly opposed for

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generations is shortsighted and unfair. No student of history can argue that Christianity is somehow

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inherently defective in ways that weaken the race. Craig later continues,

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how can whites claim to be defenders of a people and of a race and yet scoff at the deepest convictions

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of their ancestors? How can they speak of preservation when they oppose the faith that has

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for so long defined and guided our race? Today's whites are the final link in the chain of faith

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that reaches more than a thousand years into the past. If they can throw off their ancient

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religion so easily, what else might they cast aside? Their language, their culture, their race?

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Should we not be suspicious of men who invoke the wisdom of their ancestors,

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views on blacks or immigrants, but who reject the spiritual foundation on which their ancestors

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built their lives? Who reject what their ancestors would have said was the source and strength of

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all wisdom? Again, I think that's consistent query with the way you just said, and this is an argument

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that we often make. It's important for us when we're sitting here in current year looking at the

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hellscape of the world, in our neighborhoods, in our communities globally, whatever scope you're

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looking at, if you think that you can just roll back to some earlier date without all of the

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preconditions of that date, you're kind of just doing a sci-fi exercise. And there's nothing wrong

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with that. But in particular, when we're talking about Christians in the West, when we're talking

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about whites, there's no way to roll back to any period of European history that we consider glorious

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today without rolling back to a point where Christians were in charge, and it was actually a

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Christian nation with Christian rulers. And we've discussed in the past the glory of Rome and the

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glory of Greece and how to some extent those things were true, but they also had many of the

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exact horrors that we see today. They had abortion and infanticide and euthanasia of the old and

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all sorts of horrible things that today we would reject and say, well, that has no place in the

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West. And that's true. But that's only because the West was redefined by Christianity to the

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point that we consider them synonymous. So in the second chapter, he lays out a good argument that

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we can't get back the things that all of us, as white people, regardless of our religion,

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seek to preserve without simultaneously either preserving or returning to the faith of our

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fathers, because that was the genesis of the things that made Europe great. All the greatness that we

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had went along with us being Christian nations. There's a part where he says that if we undertake

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kind of like a political, attempt at a political revolution, but without Christianity, quoting Craig

41:00.400 --> 41:05.120
again, he says, no one established a nation without an identity and a body without a soul,

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which I think is, it's important in the way that you're saying, I also find it personally

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encouraging thing in a way, because it kind of solidifies for me, how tremendous of a thing

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is my faith and how intrinsic it is to not just the greatness, but even the survival

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of my people and how much it's something that we can all lean on for encouragement

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in the struggle that we have before us. Indeed. And it's not unknowable. We don't have to invent

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something new. We just have to go back to doing the things that used to be done by the folks

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who provided inheritance that was then destroyed at some point in recent generations.

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But we don't need to start from scratch. We just need to go back to that, which actually worked for

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our own people. A sort of tangent, but you mentioned the necessity of having all of the

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underpinnings in place. If you want to go back to a particular time or achieve the equivalent of

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that time in the modern world, there was an experiment in the sixties. I think he may have

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run it into the seventies as well. But a man by, I can't remember his first name, but the last name

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of Calhoun ran an experiment involving mice. I think he may have also run the experiment with rats,

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but he basically built a utopia for them. What he thought was a utopia. They had food,

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they had shelter, they had everything they needed, but it was a thoroughly artificial

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environment, a very constructed environment that was not natural and it led to complete disaster

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for the rodent populations. They would have a boom cycle followed by a bus. There was all sorts of

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aggression, despite the fact that they had all the resources they needed. Basically, he was

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trying to create a utopia and wound up creating the mouse version of hell, which is essentially

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the lesson of all utopian fiction, as it were. For those who do not know, it's been mentioned

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previously, but utopia in the Greek means not a place. Built into the word itself is sort of a

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joke about the impossibility of this utopia, which is an important thing, another tangent,

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but it's an important matter for those on the right to remember. And this is where Christianity

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really serves the right particularly well in this particular way. We will never build a utopia,

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not in this life, because this is a fallen world, this is a sinful world, this is a world tainted

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by original sin. There will be no utopia in this life. That doesn't mean we can't build a better

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world, it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to build a better world. That is in fact our duty as

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Christians, to those who will come after us, and also of course our duty to God. We can make a much

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better world than the one we currently have, of course. And no, I'm not being an optimist or

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any of the various flavors of millenarian. I'm simply pointing out it is possible to build a

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better world than the one we currently have. We know that. Our ancestors had that for centuries.

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Prior to, well, modernism. However, we have to bear in mind that if we lose sight of the fact

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that we're working in a fallen world with fallen sinful beings, and we think that we can create a

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utopia, odds are we're going to create hell on earth. You cannot create a utopia. You can create

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a better life for those who come after you, and that should be our goal. And this is something

44:57.600 --> 45:04.960
that Christianity is really vitally important for any sort of political movement on the right.

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You have to have a conscience for your political movement, and that is what Christianity is for

45:12.720 --> 45:20.320
the actual political right. Christianity informs our ethical decisions, our moral calculus,

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it is our conscience. And without it, we will probably build a complete disaster. I'm not

45:28.960 --> 45:35.360
saying that historically we haven't had European pagan societies that were relatively successful,

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but as well as pointed out a number of times. You had abortion, you had infanticide, you had human

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sacrifice in some cases, very rare in the European context, but not zero. These were very real problems

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that arose in the absence of Christianity. And as we've pointed out in previous episodes,

45:57.520 --> 46:03.680
part of the reason that Europeans did so well relative to others is that we did not fall

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as far from our historic Christian faith. Because obviously our father, our original father of all

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of the European peoples, was a Christian when he stepped off the ark. Noah had taught him

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the Christian faith. He went ahead and transmitted that to his sons. At some point that chain was

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broken, but it was not broken as early or as thoroughly as in the case of the sons of Ham

46:30.480 --> 46:37.280
and many of the sons of Shem. So the sons of Japheth were loyal for longer, were true to Christianity,

46:37.280 --> 46:41.920
and we benefited from that. We also returned to Christianity more quickly, and we benefited

46:41.920 --> 46:48.240
from that as well. And so that is another point to bring up for those who think that Christianity

46:48.240 --> 46:55.760
is incompatible with a functioning European society. The most functional European society

46:56.560 --> 47:03.680
we've ever had was Christian, and it was for centuries. It is only since we've abandoned

47:03.680 --> 47:10.320
Christianity in large part that we've had these problems. Yes, there are other complicating factors.

47:10.320 --> 47:17.920
There's rampant Satanism, and well, we've gone over a wealth of problems in previous episodes,

47:17.920 --> 47:25.040
and we'll go over more in future episodes. But we've lost our core. We no longer have any real

47:26.080 --> 47:33.360
moral or ethical core to our people because we abandoned Christianity. And that is the central

47:33.360 --> 47:42.720
point of really this podcast and also a central point in this book. You need Christianity because

47:42.720 --> 47:49.600
it is one of the prerequisites in order to build back the sort of society that our ancestors enjoyed

47:49.600 --> 47:58.160
and that we have lost in only the last handful of generations. You cannot restore the structure

47:58.800 --> 48:05.520
unless you restore the foundation. And the foundation of the Western world is Christianity

48:05.520 --> 48:13.120
because the Western world is Christendom. In Chapter 3, which is a short chapter on what he

48:13.120 --> 48:18.480
calls Christian Reformation, but it's really about the migration of Christianity from the

48:18.480 --> 48:23.920
Mediterranean into Northwestern Europe, it's the first argument that Giles make. And I refer to him

48:23.920 --> 48:27.280
by his first name just so I don't call him Corey because that would be incredibly confusing.

48:28.160 --> 48:32.400
The argument that he makes is one that it seems that he adopted from James Russell,

48:33.120 --> 48:38.560
which I disagree with completely the way he presents it, but I'm interested Corey for you

48:38.560 --> 48:44.240
to chip in because I'm sure that you know more about the background of this argument. Basically,

48:44.240 --> 48:49.840
it comes down to this James Russell quote. The process by which Christianity was Germanized

48:49.840 --> 48:54.960
in its attempt to Christianize the Germanic peoples was not the result of organized Germanic

48:55.040 --> 49:00.480
resistance to Christianity or of an attempt by the Germanic peoples to transform Christianity

49:00.480 --> 49:05.120
into an acceptable form. Rather, it was primarily a consequence of the deliberate

49:05.120 --> 49:10.400
inculturation of Germanic religious cultural attitudes within Christianity by Christian

49:10.400 --> 49:15.280
missionaries. This process of accommodation resulted in the essential transformation of

49:15.280 --> 49:21.360
Christianity from a universal religion to a Germanic and eventually European folk religion.

49:21.920 --> 49:27.200
Now, I don't know the background of that argument, interestingly later on when in the

49:27.200 --> 49:33.040
chapter we're discussing African and the global South adoption of Christianity,

49:33.040 --> 49:40.480
he makes much the same argument except very critically. For me, I think that my read on

49:40.480 --> 49:46.800
what was going on, I think it's a framing issue that I fundamentally have because I think when

49:46.880 --> 49:52.400
you look at Christianity in the first few centuries where there was persecution because

49:52.400 --> 49:56.880
Christians were a minority, they're first a small minority, they were viewed as a cult,

49:56.880 --> 50:02.240
then they became a larger minority. In some cases they became the overwhelming majority,

50:02.240 --> 50:09.440
yet still not an official state religion because all states had a state religion and

50:09.440 --> 50:14.720
generally the head of the state, the head of the nation was also a god. The pinch of

50:14.800 --> 50:21.840
incense to Caesar was to acknowledge his godship. I think that what changed when missionaries moved

50:21.840 --> 50:27.600
into Germany and elsewhere in Europe was that Christianity was not migrating to different

50:27.600 --> 50:35.520
cultural contexts, but it was migrating to places where it simply became the dominant religion.

50:35.520 --> 50:41.680
The dominant religion is always in a preferred place and should be an exclusive place in the case

50:41.680 --> 50:47.440
of a monotheistic religion, which is almost an obscenity because there is only one god,

50:47.440 --> 50:52.720
and so the notion that monotheism can have different faces is itself a separate lie.

50:52.720 --> 50:59.360
But my read on the history of Christianity moving into places like the German peoples and elsewhere

50:59.360 --> 51:07.120
in Europe was not that it was being adapted to local mores or that there was syncretism,

51:07.120 --> 51:14.480
it was simply that when the German people became Christian, Christianity became their culture.

51:14.480 --> 51:21.280
It was incorporated into their culture as always happens. It's natural that a German Christian

51:21.280 --> 51:28.400
and a French Christian even and an English Christian are going to behave in slightly

51:28.400 --> 51:33.040
different ways, certainly an Irish Christian. You put those four in one place and you're going to

51:33.120 --> 51:39.520
have differences in behavior and approach that isn't simply a function of the history of their

51:39.520 --> 51:46.080
denominational changes throughout time, but it's also a function of them as a race. The

51:46.080 --> 51:52.960
race of Irishmen is distinct from the race of Englishmen has been the source of the troubles

51:52.960 --> 51:57.040
because when the English tried to dominate the Irish, the Irish don't like it and so they fight.

51:57.760 --> 52:04.320
That is part of race. It's part of one of the things that makes it so ludicrous to think that

52:04.320 --> 52:09.840
race isn't inextricable because when an Englishman becomes Christian, he's going to approach things

52:09.840 --> 52:15.440
differently than a German who becomes Christian. That's fine. Those are both Christian and I

52:15.440 --> 52:19.840
simply reject the minor point that doesn't really flow into the rest of the book that somehow

52:20.720 --> 52:24.960
that was syncretistic. I think it was simply that when the Germanic peoples became Christian,

52:25.840 --> 52:31.040
they were still Germans. They didn't stop having German character. Christianity

52:31.040 --> 52:37.360
simply became their worldview as well as their religion. I'm curious what you

52:37.360 --> 52:40.720
have to say about that theory because I'm sure it's something you've given a lot more thought

52:40.720 --> 52:48.720
in reading. He gives a sort of light touch to an argument that became popular in the academy.

52:49.680 --> 52:58.000
Really, I guess it's been probably a couple of decades ago at this point, but Russell's book

52:58.000 --> 53:06.080
was 1996. Probably maybe 30 years ago, this started to crop up and it's kind of waxed and

53:06.080 --> 53:14.720
waned over time. The argument essentially is that Christianity started out. I'm not making

53:14.720 --> 53:19.600
this argument for myself. Please note that this is the academic argument that has been advanced.

53:20.160 --> 53:26.080
Christianity started out as a Middle Eastern religion because they always neglect the fact

53:26.080 --> 53:29.840
that Christianity started in the garden, but they say that it started out as a Middle Eastern

53:29.840 --> 53:36.880
religion. From there, it moved into the Greek and Roman context, the Roman context via the Greeks,

53:37.680 --> 53:43.360
and became eventually under Constantine because he always plays this outsized role

53:43.360 --> 53:51.520
in all of these mythologies. Under Constantine, it becomes the state religion. It becomes Romanized

53:51.520 --> 53:58.000
to a certain degree, which of course means Europeanized to a certain degree. Then when the

53:58.000 --> 54:04.720
Germanic tribes invade and start taking Christianity back with them, it becomes Germanized. The

54:04.720 --> 54:12.880
argument is that Christianity through this transmission route became a German, a Germanic

54:12.880 --> 54:19.840
European religion, whereas it had originally been a Middle Eastern religion. This is of course

54:19.840 --> 54:25.280
complete nonsense when taken to the degree that the academy would like to take it.

54:27.120 --> 54:34.320
Now, the problem isn't that the argument itself is necessarily false. It's the emphasis

54:34.400 --> 54:38.960
is totally wrong. The goal of the academy, of course, is to discredit Christianity, is to

54:38.960 --> 54:43.200
make it seem like it's this chameleon that just adapts itself as it moves through the world.

54:43.920 --> 54:49.120
And incidentally, we do see this today with those who are trying to say that, oh, well now,

54:49.120 --> 54:53.840
Christianity has become African and Asian. It's part of the global south. It's a new thing.

54:54.960 --> 55:00.880
That's this argument for idiots. But in reality, what you have

55:01.120 --> 55:09.600
is you have Christianity becoming the core of these cultures as it goes, which really,

55:09.600 --> 55:15.120
it's a restoration of the ancient faith, but it becomes the core of the culture and the culture

55:15.120 --> 55:22.080
molds itself around that Christian core. There's nothing wrong with that. If we managed to,

55:22.080 --> 55:30.080
say, Christianize Japan, Japanese Christianity will not look the same as Western Christianity.

55:31.040 --> 55:36.320
Japanese Christianity, if it is Christianity, in fact, will have the same tenets because,

55:36.320 --> 55:41.760
again, it's those tenets that are important. If you have some differences in the look and the

55:41.760 --> 55:47.600
way you conduct your ceremonies, that's fine. That's a cultural difference. There is no reason

55:47.600 --> 55:52.320
ceremonies need to be the same everywhere. And incidentally, I'm basically quoting the book

55:52.320 --> 55:58.400
of Concord right there. That is one of the arguments we put forth that you can have differences

55:59.280 --> 56:05.360
in the ceremonies due to cultural differences. And one of the examples that Luther liked to use

56:05.360 --> 56:09.680
was actually the Italians versus the Germans, which, despite the fact that we're next-door

56:09.680 --> 56:15.520
neighbors, two very different peoples, we're going to behave differently in all of our cultural

56:15.520 --> 56:21.280
contexts. We're going to have different ceremonies. You're going to have very different singing in

56:21.280 --> 56:27.680
a German Lutheran church versus an Italian church, whatever they happen to be. Granted,

56:27.680 --> 56:35.440
Italians almost certainly Roman Catholic. But Christianity did not become German. That's not

56:35.440 --> 56:43.520
what happened. Christianity became the core of the German culture. Now, of course, Christianity was

56:43.520 --> 56:52.160
in large part entirely compatible culturally with the Germans as it found them, obviously not

56:52.160 --> 56:57.600
religiously because the German tribes were pagan at the time. And so that had to be jettisoned.

56:58.240 --> 57:05.280
But the culture can remain because the culture had many of the things that are required in

57:05.280 --> 57:11.520
Christianity that are part of the Christian religion. Because again, they had not fallen as far

57:11.520 --> 57:16.560
and they had not been apostate for as long. And so, for instance, you have Roman historians

57:16.560 --> 57:22.000
who will specifically note that marriage was held in high esteem among the German tribes

57:22.080 --> 57:28.800
adultery was basically unheard of, it was very severely punished usually by death, etc. There

57:28.800 --> 57:35.520
are many arguments along these lines from the pagan historians who are noting how these various

57:35.520 --> 57:40.720
tribes behaved. And so when you have Christianity that comes in and says, thou shalt not commit

57:40.720 --> 57:46.800
adultery, well, that's perfectly in line with what the Germans already believed. Now, notably,

57:47.440 --> 57:53.760
they didn't reject Christianity if instead of actual Christians,

57:54.400 --> 58:00.800
actual missionaries going and proclaiming actual Christianity to these tribes, you had someone

58:00.800 --> 58:09.920
proclaiming the modern conception of Christianity as propounded by the main line, so called churches,

58:10.000 --> 58:15.920
and by Rome, and in large part by basically all of the organized forms of Christianity.

58:17.760 --> 58:24.560
The European tribes would have rejected it because what you have today, the modern conception of

58:24.560 --> 58:33.840
this theology, so called, is a death cult. It's a death pact. It's a suicide pact. These are not

58:34.720 --> 58:39.280
the actual tenets of Christianity. These are corruptions of them. And so you would have never

58:39.280 --> 58:45.600
been able to convert the European peoples with the false faith that is masquerading as Christianity

58:45.600 --> 58:51.120
today in the West. And the global South is another problem. It's mostly syncretism that's the problem

58:51.120 --> 58:56.960
down there. In the West it's mostly these liberal ideas in the technical sense.

58:59.280 --> 59:04.480
But the takeaway point is that Christianity was not Germanized. I'm not saying that the

59:04.480 --> 59:07.680
book isn't worth reading. It's an interesting book. If you're the sort of person who finds

59:07.680 --> 59:12.160
this interesting, then by all means grab the book and read it. There's plenty of other

59:12.160 --> 59:16.800
material as well, many journal articles. But the emphasis is wrong.

59:18.480 --> 59:24.400
Germany did not transform Germany in the grand sense here, obviously it was Germanic tribes

59:24.400 --> 59:32.800
at the time. Germany did not transform Christianity. Christianity became the core of Germanic culture

59:32.800 --> 59:39.920
and eventually became the core of all European culture. It is the foundation upon which

59:41.280 --> 59:47.360
the Western world is built. You cannot have the West without Christianity. And in point of fact,

59:48.080 --> 59:54.960
you cannot have Christianity without the West, as has been proven. The West is the only bastion

59:54.960 --> 01:00:02.320
of Christianity. It has always been the only bastion of Christianity. The only possible exception

01:00:03.600 --> 01:00:09.280
was when basically all of the sons of Noah, at this point great, great, great grandsons,

01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:15.040
depending on where in the world, when all of these progeny of Noah had fallen away,

01:00:16.080 --> 01:00:26.640
God chose a small tribe in the Near East in order to maintain the Christian faith. And that was with

01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:30.880
active, pervasive, and constant intervention by God himself.

01:00:32.560 --> 01:00:39.040
That is what it was reduced to for a time. But since the coming of Christ, since the transmission

01:00:39.040 --> 01:00:46.640
of the gospel to the West, the West has been Christendom. And Christendom is the West. Without

01:00:46.640 --> 01:00:50.880
the West, you don't have the church. And without the church, you don't have the West.

01:00:51.120 --> 01:00:57.760
And that is fundamentally what is discussed in the third part of the book. So the first three

01:00:57.760 --> 01:01:03.840
chapters cover the just kind of a brief introduction of the state of the church. The second part of

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:08.720
the book is about half of the book. In my opinion, I think it's really the meat of what is presented

01:01:08.720 --> 01:01:15.200
here is on the heresy of Christian Zionism. Giles gives a really good survey of the history of

01:01:15.200 --> 01:01:21.200
both pre-millennial and post-millennialist thought. Notably, he ignores a millennialism

01:01:21.200 --> 01:01:25.600
altogether, which is kind of a bummer. As Lutherans, we reject the notion that

01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:32.480
there is a millennium as a thousand-year period. There is the ascension of Christ,

01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:38.880
and there's Pentecost. And then that is the millennium until almost before the return of Christ.

01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:46.240
So we are living in the millennium now. That is what we believe. And there are variations

01:01:46.240 --> 01:01:51.040
of these various things. It's a little bit of a bummer that he wasn't familiar with. I didn't

01:01:51.040 --> 01:01:55.680
see it at all in the book, and I did a word search. A millennium doesn't appear even once,

01:01:55.680 --> 01:02:00.480
which is fine. Again, as we note these things, it's not to say, this is a bad book, but it's just

01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:05.120
I think that whenever you're listening to anything or reading anything,

01:02:05.120 --> 01:02:09.760
you should always be critical. We always encourage you to be critical of things that we

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:14.560
say, because we know that they will withstand scrutiny. That should be the approach that we

01:02:14.560 --> 01:02:22.000
take to everything. If you are absorbing things mindlessly, you're basically a weapon at the

01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:27.920
hands of whoever is feeding you information. So the small criticisms that we have of the book

01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:33.360
are in no way a negation of the really good work that he's done here. If I wanted a better book

01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:38.160
to exist, I should have written myself. It's a huge undertake, and I have a tremendous amount of

01:02:38.160 --> 01:02:44.400
respect for him for producing this. So when we mention these things, please don't take it as

01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:51.040
an indictment. He covers the history of Zionism really well, and it's a really nice compliment

01:02:51.040 --> 01:02:55.920
to, again, the series that we did on the Jews, the four-part series, particularly the last two,

01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:00.480
I think, that get the most into Zionism. As Corey mentioned, we've had a ton of requests

01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:07.440
recently for an episode on dispensationalism. I think we're going to have to do that. I don't want

01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:13.360
to, because it's painful, which is just me whining like a little girl. I have decided I need to treat

01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:18.800
this podcast basically as my job at this point, and if I find a topic unpleasant, that just means

01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:23.840
it's that much more important to do it, because we have a lot of people asking for that. As we're

01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:30.000
recording this right now, Israel is dropping bombs on hospitals and killing hundreds of people in

01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:36.960
Gaza. That sort of violence ebbs and flows in that part of the world throughout time. One of the

01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:42.800
things that we don't want to do with with Stone Coir episodes is to make them highly time sensitive.

01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:46.720
I want someone to be able to come along years from now and listen to one of these episodes

01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:51.120
and not feel like they're listening to a time capsule. I hope that the things that we're discussing

01:03:51.120 --> 01:03:56.800
are always relevant, and so that means there are some topics we avoid. So in the case of

01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:04.880
dispensationalism, it is, again, it is the heresy that undergirds Christian Zionism in this book,

01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:12.720
and so he does a really good job and a great deal of detail laying out how we got here. It's

01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:20.320
fascinating reading through part two of this book how much of it plays directly into the headlines

01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:26.320
this afternoon, and it's aggravating. That shouldn't be the case. We should not have

01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:32.160
events in the Middle East being dictated by bad theology, but the case that he makes in the book

01:04:32.160 --> 01:04:37.200
and the pivotal case that we'll also be making when we do an episode on dispensationalism is that

01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:43.840
the heresy of Christian Zionism and the heresy of dispensationalism was specifically created

01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:50.800
in order to ensure that when this day and current year came, when Israel was going to war again with

01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:56.560
all their neighbors, that the United States would, the people of this country, would feel that we

01:04:56.560 --> 01:05:02.080
have a moral obligation to support Israel because they're our greatest ally and because God gave

01:05:02.080 --> 01:05:06.640
them that land and all that nonsense. There are a couple quotes I wanted to mention here because

01:05:06.640 --> 01:05:15.920
they undergird the overarching theme of the heresy of Zionism. Indeed, Zionism would most probably

01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:20.880
have remained a theological position where it not for the intervention of a handful of influential

01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:27.680
aristocratic politicians who came to share the theological convictions of Wei, Irving, and Darby

01:05:27.680 --> 01:05:33.360
and translated them into political reality. One such politician, the philanthropist Lord

01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:38.720
Shaftesbury, was convinced that the restoration of the Jews to Palestine was not only predicted in

01:05:38.720 --> 01:05:45.200
the Bible, but also coincided with the strategic interests of British foreign policy, a view shared

01:05:45.200 --> 01:05:50.960
by Prime Minister Lord Palmerston, as well as future Prime Ministers Lord Arthur Balfour

01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:57.200
and David Lloyd George. I believe this quote was from the mid-1800s. It was before, incidentally,

01:05:57.200 --> 01:06:01.920
the Schofield Bible had been covered. That's one of the things that he discusses in detail in a

01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:13.360
future chapter. Again, we try not to do topical episodes, but the notion that Palestine being

01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:19.200
ripped away from the Palestinians who lived there for thousands of years and given to another people,

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:25.600
the Genesis was part of the Genesis of Christian Zionism, this heresy. Today,

01:06:25.600 --> 01:06:29.520
people are dying because of it. Americans are going to die because of it. Right now,

01:06:29.520 --> 01:06:34.880
we have naval ships moving into place. They're going to get shot at. Soldiers and Marines are

01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:40.240
going to be on the ground in whether it's in Gaza or elsewhere. They're going to get hurt and

01:06:40.240 --> 01:06:45.120
they're going to get killed. Never mind the civilians and the others who are already dying.

01:06:45.120 --> 01:06:50.880
I don't mean to imply that American lives are worth more to us than their lives are to them,

01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:56.320
but certainly the American life is worth more to me in terms of we shouldn't be going there

01:06:56.400 --> 01:07:04.080
and dying for someone else's war. That was the key reason that this heresy was invented two centuries

01:07:04.080 --> 01:07:09.440
ago, was to make the wars and the troop movements that we're seeing today even possible. That's

01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:16.080
a big deal. That's why this part of the book is so vitally important, because if you don't

01:07:16.080 --> 01:07:22.640
understand where this stuff came from and how pervasive it became in Western culture, particularly

01:07:22.640 --> 01:07:26.240
American and British culture, there's no way to understand what's happening today.

01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:35.360
One thing that I think really kind of suggests itself as you read that particular part that you

01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:42.720
read, he's talking about Lord Shaftesbury's view that the restoration of the Jews to Palestine

01:07:42.720 --> 01:07:47.440
not was not only predicting the Bible, but also coincided with the strategic interests of British

01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:54.960
foreign policy. I think my immediate thought was how absolutely clear it is in hindsight that

01:07:54.960 --> 01:08:02.960
there is no truth to that idea at all, that the interests of the Jewish state in any way coincided

01:08:03.600 --> 01:08:10.480
with the interests of the British Empire. The formation of, as we're all well aware,

01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:17.200
of the coming to existence of the state of Israel after World War II and the whole process,

01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:26.800
that came about by the same process that destroyed the British Empire, their insistence on fighting

01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:35.200
a world war with Germany. He goes into that argument, kind of the same type of argument,

01:08:36.320 --> 01:08:41.760
not specifically on that point, but just generally making the point that the idea that

01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:48.800
phylocemitism and blessing the physical people of Israel, the physical Jews, is in any way a

01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:56.000
blessing to the nation that does it is just completely not borne out by history. But that's,

01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:02.080
that was just something that really stood out to me while reading that. So I'm happy that you

01:09:02.080 --> 01:09:08.320
kind of picked up on that specific passage. You can say that you're avoiding the dispensationalism

01:09:08.320 --> 01:09:13.040
issue. And that's entirely understandable. I've read a fair amount of it, and it's

01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:20.160
not exactly the most enjoyable slog. But at the same time, if you're reading about dispensationalism,

01:09:20.160 --> 01:09:26.640
it is a valid excuse to put off reading Palimus, which is in fact worse, although we will still

01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:33.360
eventually get around to the episode on Eastern Orthodoxy. And I do have the full translation

01:09:33.360 --> 01:09:40.480
of his major work now instead of just the, it's really not a summary, it's still something like

01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:46.480
half to two thirds of the work. But I have the definitive edition now by a Greek Orthodox priest.

01:09:46.480 --> 01:09:52.640
So that particular objection that has been voiced by some will no longer be valid when we get around

01:09:52.640 --> 01:10:02.800
to that episode. But it is a very interesting point that in hindsight, obviously, the British

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:10.160
decisions in and during World War II, leading up to it during it and after it regarding what is

01:10:10.160 --> 01:10:18.240
today known as the state of Israel, did not coincide with British interests insofar as the British

01:10:18.240 --> 01:10:24.720
nation is concerned. Now, it certainly helped line the pockets of many British politicians and

01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:32.000
businessmen, but it certainly destroyed the British Empire. And ultimately, as we see today, it

01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:37.120
destroyed the British nation, perhaps not yet beyond the point of salvage, we can certainly

01:10:37.120 --> 01:10:42.160
hope and pray for that. But things are not looking good for the United Kingdom, certainly.

01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:52.160
Because, well, quite frankly, Israel has flooded Europe with so-called refugees. It is

01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:58.880
biological warfare against the European nations, whom the Jews view as their mortal enemies,

01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:09.520
always have and always will. And so we in sort of a larger sense here in the West, largely,

01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:17.920
yes, the British and the Americans, basically established our centuries old enemy in a state

01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:24.000
of their own and then have funded them to the tune of, quite frankly, at this point,

01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:30.080
probably an uncountable amount of money. And we see the consequences of that today.

01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:34.640
You mentioned that you hope that the episodes aren't topical in the sense of

01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:39.360
not standing the test of time because of things that are no longer relevant,

01:11:39.360 --> 01:11:44.240
were relevant only in the moment. In point of fact, I do hope that these episodes,

01:11:44.240 --> 01:11:48.880
certain ones, become entirely topical because I would very much like to see Israel no longer

01:11:48.880 --> 01:11:53.920
be an issue at some point. So hopefully someone listening 50 years in the future will have to

01:11:54.320 --> 01:12:02.080
go and look at a history book for that one. So part of the dispensational heresy is the

01:12:02.080 --> 01:12:06.160
Schofield Reference Bible. I think pretty much everyone who's listening has probably heard

01:12:06.160 --> 01:12:13.600
about it before. This was a study Bible that was published in 1909. The author of this book does a

01:12:13.600 --> 01:12:19.840
really good job going into the history of that man or the absence of history of that man who called

01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:24.640
himself a doctor and called himself a number of other things, despite there being literally no

01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:31.120
evidence of any of them. As best we can tell, he was a complete fraud and charlatan at every step.

01:12:31.120 --> 01:12:39.360
He was an absolute nobody scumbag grifter who somehow became connected with the highest echelons

01:12:39.360 --> 01:12:46.640
of Western society on both sides of the Atlantic. And this translated directly into him,

01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:52.880
publishing, so-called this Bible. I think it was Oxford Press that did it, which was, again,

01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:58.480
completely out of the blue, was the publisher, the press that produced it. I don't think they'd

01:12:58.480 --> 01:13:04.080
done a Bible at least in quite some time. It was far outside of their purview. And so as he makes

01:13:04.080 --> 01:13:11.200
the case, all these little facts on the ground, seemingly out of nowhere, make no sense. But

01:13:12.160 --> 01:13:19.280
looking back in time, they do make sense if you believe that the supernatural acts

01:13:19.280 --> 01:13:23.920
to cause things, and if you believe that there are men who conspire to achieve things in time,

01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:31.200
which I would hope all of us do, as we established in the beginning of the greatest lie episode,

01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:37.120
we talked about COVID. We talked about the fact that we were all lied to about the origins of

01:13:37.120 --> 01:13:43.840
the disease, about the nature of the injections. Conspiracies actually happen. People in dark rooms

01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:48.880
make plans to hurt people, and then they put them into practice, and they often succeed.

01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:54.560
They sometimes fail. Plans don't always work, but they try. And as we've said in the past,

01:13:54.560 --> 01:14:01.360
one of the chief blind spots that Christians in particular have is we're governed by a belief

01:14:01.360 --> 01:14:07.280
that I would never do that, therefore no one would ever do that, which is a pernicious lie.

01:14:08.240 --> 01:14:12.480
And so after World War I, I'm going to read a quote here now.

01:14:12.480 --> 01:14:16.240
After World War I, the Schofield reference Bible flew off the rack,

01:14:16.240 --> 01:14:21.360
exceeding 2 million copies by the end of World War II. Hence the pointless carnage of the World

01:14:21.360 --> 01:14:26.560
Wars literally sold the Schofield Bible and its apocalyptic pro-Israel message.

01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:33.920
The 1948 creation of the state of Israel also made Schofield's premillennialism seem prophetic.

01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:42.240
So basically what he did with annotations and footnotes, they were very selective as he went

01:14:42.240 --> 01:14:49.520
through the text of the Bible. The only additions that were made, the only changes that were made,

01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:57.680
were done with the specific intent of laying the groundwork for the mandate of Palestine to become

01:14:58.400 --> 01:15:02.400
what we now know as the state of Israel. Here's another quote.

01:15:02.400 --> 01:15:06.560
Schofield wisely chose not to change the text of the King James edition.

01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:11.280
Instead, he added hundreds of easy to read footnotes at the bottom of about half of the pages.

01:15:11.280 --> 01:15:16.000
And as the old English grammar of the King James becomes increasingly difficult for progressive

01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:20.400
generations of readers, students became increasingly dependent on the modern language

01:15:20.400 --> 01:15:25.920
footnotes. That's entirely true. And I find this particular comment to be pretty hilarious because

01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:31.360
in the preface, the very first words of this entire book by Giles, he specifically says that the

01:15:31.360 --> 01:15:37.360
King James is essentially the only true Bible that all the others have basically been corrupted,

01:15:37.360 --> 01:15:44.320
hence the only one one should use, and that the corruptions in other translations are the fault

01:15:44.320 --> 01:15:50.400
of the problems that we have in the church today. There are definitely bad translations, but we

01:15:50.400 --> 01:15:55.280
actually spent about half of last week's episode or two weeks ago now because we had a brief hiatus.

01:15:56.160 --> 01:16:01.680
Two weeks ago when we did the episode on their listener mail, we talked about choosing Bibles,

01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:06.640
and I specifically made the point that the King James is singularly unsuitable

01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:11.760
for a modern Bible precisely for the reason that he mentions here. Because the grammar was

01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:16.720
increasingly difficult, people relied on the footnotes. So the very thing that he holds up is

01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:22.880
a necessity for the preservation of the word. In fact, is its greatest weakness. As we said in

01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:29.440
that episode, it's a beautiful book. It is the Bible, but it's archaic language to the point

01:16:29.440 --> 01:16:34.160
that people don't know what they're reading. And that's borne out by history. It's borne out in

01:16:34.240 --> 01:16:41.840
modern denominations today. The more adamantly a denomination says we are King James only,

01:16:41.840 --> 01:16:47.120
nothing else is suitable. I can pretty much guarantee that overwhelmingly they're going

01:16:47.120 --> 01:16:51.840
to be dispensationalists, and they're going to have a lot of other really bad doctrine too.

01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:57.760
At some point, the two cannot be ignored as going together. So it's a minor point that he made. I

01:16:57.760 --> 01:17:03.120
don't mean to pick on them, but it's important to recognize that if you can't understand the Bible,

01:17:03.120 --> 01:17:06.560
what are you going to do? You're going to go to someone who can help you, and that's precisely

01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:12.960
what Schofield and his financial backers exploited. They put these footnotes in, and the footnotes

01:17:12.960 --> 01:17:19.920
didn't have anything to do with Scripture. Again, what he inserted into the text was specifically

01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:28.240
around creating a moral imperative for Christians to recreate basically the third temple. The idea is

01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:34.160
and he gets into it in some of the later chapters, forget the Jesus stuff. We need

01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:39.440
Israel to be in the land of Israel because that's what God promised to Abraham,

01:17:39.440 --> 01:17:44.640
and we as Christians must do everything we can to give them back everything that was taken in

01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:54.080
AD 70. It's blasphemous on its face. It's predicated on false doctrine, and it's also fundamentally

01:17:54.160 --> 01:17:59.280
destructive to nations. This is part of the reason that we need Christian voices in these

01:17:59.280 --> 01:18:07.200
discussions doing a good job with the Christian stuff because geopolitics hinges on today,

01:18:07.200 --> 01:18:13.200
hinges on false doctrine that was introduced over a century ago. Schofield didn't come up with this

01:18:13.200 --> 01:18:19.520
stuff. He cribbed it from Derby and others, but it was inserted into Western culture in a way that

01:18:20.080 --> 01:18:27.680
we're stuck with today. Those footnotes and the annotations that he made are today cited as doctrine

01:18:27.680 --> 01:18:34.800
by many people. The end result is the creation of the state of Israel in two carrier battle groups

01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:41.840
off the shore of Gaza today, ready for us to go to war and die for a conflict that has nothing to

01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:49.360
do with us. We see the long coattails of Schofield in many modern study Bibles. This is not

01:18:49.440 --> 01:18:55.200
something where someone needs to have Schofield in order to be influenced and really infected

01:18:55.840 --> 01:19:02.720
by these notes, because there's rivalry, which is an updating of the Schofield. There's the

01:19:02.720 --> 01:19:08.000
MacArthur Study Bible, which in large part is the Schofield reworked. Yes, there are many

01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:13.280
additional notes, but Schofield still comes through. And this is the case for really anything

01:19:13.280 --> 01:19:18.960
produced by those who've attended any of the various institutions that are largely dispensationalist.

01:19:19.440 --> 01:19:24.720
One of the biggest offenders would be Dallas Theological Seminary, but the Southern Baptist

01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:29.840
Theological Seminary is another major offender when it comes to promulgating and pushing

01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:36.080
dispensationalist heresy. So this is very much a live issue. This is not something that has

01:19:36.080 --> 01:19:42.480
faded into the background. And I had the same reaction when I saw that particular comment

01:19:42.480 --> 01:19:50.400
in light of the preface. And that was the one, the biggest problem I had with, I guess we could

01:19:50.400 --> 01:19:55.440
say really this addition, because you can go back through and swap out all of the citations

01:19:55.440 --> 01:20:00.800
to scripture for a different translation. That's fine. I would love to see a version of this that

01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:08.240
had, say, the ESV or the NASB or any of a number of translations other than the King James.

01:20:08.240 --> 01:20:14.320
Now, I recognize there are copyright issues, but that's a separate matter. It would be more

01:20:14.320 --> 01:20:21.520
accessible to the reader if a modern translation of scripture were used. And that's exactly what

01:20:21.520 --> 01:20:27.280
is admitted in that chapter. The King James is just not accessible to people anymore as we went

01:20:27.280 --> 01:20:33.440
over at length in the previous episode. I do find it funny, though, that it's always the King James,

01:20:34.320 --> 01:20:39.360
which obviously 1611, although it's never the 1611, because they always use the updated version.

01:20:40.160 --> 01:20:45.920
So apparently updating it's fine as long as you're still calling it the King James,

01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:50.080
because no one is using the original version with the old spelling and the apocrypha.

01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:57.520
You never see that. Okay. That's not entirely true. I did meet one man in a coffee shop who

01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:02.320
absolutely insisted that the original spelling was somehow also important. And he had it on him at

01:21:02.320 --> 01:21:07.920
the time. So I've had, I've encountered that once in my life. But I do find it funny that you don't

01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:12.400
have the original version of the King James being the one they always argue you have to use.

01:21:13.600 --> 01:21:19.120
And for some reason it's the King James and not the Tyndale. You have the Tyndale that came before

01:21:19.120 --> 01:21:25.840
the King James in, well, it's an older English and it's even more difficult to read. But the point

01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:31.440
is the language has changed. So you need to have a version you can read. I do also find it worth

01:21:31.440 --> 01:21:36.080
noting that the Tyndale Bible in English and the Luther Bible obviously in German,

01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:45.680
essentially the exact same years for the initial and full versions 1522 and 1534, 1535.

01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:52.080
And to be clear, that critique of the author in no way changes any of his conclusions. Like

01:21:52.080 --> 01:21:58.000
Corey said, you could swap out any other version of the Bible and the theology would,

01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:02.080
the arguments would work just as well. In fact, one of the first citations from the King James

01:22:02.080 --> 01:22:08.320
that he uses, I struggled to think what I, what, what does that mean? I'm literate. I'm not dumb.

01:22:08.320 --> 01:22:12.720
And yeah, I, if I'm struggling, struggling with something, I guarantee that other people are.

01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:18.400
And guys who tell me, oh, you just need experience with a well, you think that because you think

01:22:18.400 --> 01:22:22.160
it's a magic Bible language. And I'm sorry, I know that there are guys that get really adamant

01:22:22.160 --> 01:22:28.480
about this, but you know, right in the text of this book on one hand, he says, King James is the

01:22:28.480 --> 01:22:33.440
only thing. And on the other, he says it's causing problems and everyone was going to the footnotes.

01:22:33.440 --> 01:22:36.400
The footnotes wouldn't have worked if not for the confusing language.

01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:42.880
There's also the issue of if you're saying that you have to spend time with this in order to

01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:47.440
know how to read it, you're really admitting what you're doing. You're learning another language.

01:22:48.320 --> 01:22:54.400
Yes, you're learning equivalent of say a dialect sort of, you're learning a form of English.

01:22:55.200 --> 01:22:59.200
But if you're saying that you have to spend time with this to learn it, go ahead and learn Greek.

01:23:00.160 --> 01:23:04.400
Just read the untranslated New Testament and the Septuagint then.

01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:10.240
The problem is you see men who are advocating King James only, and they don't put in the time

01:23:10.240 --> 01:23:14.640
to actually learn the Greek. I'm not saying you have to learn Greek to know scripture,

01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:18.640
but I am saying if you're going to absolutely insist that, oh, you have to know this, that,

01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:22.880
and the other in order to understand scripture, learn the original language. Put in the effort

01:23:22.880 --> 01:23:31.600
and do that. Don't tell me that I have to read English from 400 years ago, because the men who

01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:36.480
were translating it were looking at the Greek when they translated it. So they were relying on the

01:23:36.480 --> 01:23:42.400
Greek. So if you want to insist that you absolutely must read in this particular version,

01:23:43.360 --> 01:23:49.120
go ahead and learn the Greek. Then we can have a discussion about whether you find something in

01:23:49.120 --> 01:23:55.360
the Greek that doesn't come through in, say, the English standard version or the NASB,

01:23:56.080 --> 01:24:00.560
because then we can actually have a real conversation about translation choices.

01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:05.360
Otherwise, it's really just turning the King James into an idol,

01:24:06.320 --> 01:24:10.640
which is not what scripture is meant to be. I'm not saying, you know, oh,

01:24:10.640 --> 01:24:15.040
biblicism is dangerous and you can't rely too much on scripture. No, that's not the point.

01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:20.400
The issue is when you turn one particular translation into the Bible.

01:24:22.080 --> 01:24:26.720
That's not how the Word of God works. That's not how God has told us it works,

01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:34.880
because look at the history. God caused the original Hebrew of the Old Testament and,

01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:40.800
yes, Aramaic in certain places, to be translated into Greek. God caused that to happen,

01:24:41.360 --> 01:24:47.920
and then when he came to earth, he cited the Greek. So God gave his stamp of approval

01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:55.120
to translation. So using a translation of scripture is entirely fine. As we keep telling people,

01:24:55.920 --> 01:25:02.240
read the scriptures, one, in the Bible you actually have, so you actually read, and two,

01:25:03.120 --> 01:25:09.600
in a language you actually understand, with the one caveat being, if you want to learn a foreign

01:25:09.600 --> 01:25:16.080
language, reading scripture is a great way to do that. There's another long quote from this chapter

01:25:16.080 --> 01:25:20.320
that I want to read. I think it's important to know that, you know, this was written, I think,

01:25:20.320 --> 01:25:27.920
in 2019, 2020, roughly, and yet this describes current circumstances almost to a T. A lot of the

01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:32.640
same names hurt in this, as we're seeing in the news today. As Corey said, that shouldn't be,

01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:38.400
we shouldn't be hearing about this stuff, but the heresy of Christian Zionism is what has produced

01:25:38.400 --> 01:25:45.840
the geopolitical situation we have. Quote, Falwell was the founder of Liberty University and operated

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:52.240
a popular television ministry. In 1979, Falwell founded the Moral Majority, a major organization

01:25:52.320 --> 01:25:58.480
in the American religious right. Israel, the state of Israel, provided Falwell with a personal

01:25:58.480 --> 01:26:06.000
leerjet. In 1980, he became the first Gentile to be awarded the Vladimir Ze'ev Jabot Tinsky

01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:13.840
medal for Zionist excellence by Prime Minister Begin. When Israel bombed Iraq in 1981, Begin called

01:26:13.840 --> 01:26:19.760
Falwell before Reagan to explain to the Christian public the reasons for the bombing. Falwell

01:26:19.760 --> 01:26:26.080
regularly defended and minimized Israeli atrocities, and in 1985, pledged to the rabbinical assembly

01:26:26.080 --> 01:26:32.400
in Miami to mobilize 70 million conservative Christians for Israel and against anti-Semitism.

01:26:33.120 --> 01:26:38.320
Continuing the pattern in 1998, then and current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

01:26:39.040 --> 01:26:44.560
met with Falwell before President Clinton, and in 2000, Falwell revived the Moral Majority as

01:26:44.560 --> 01:26:50.640
People of Faith 2000, a pro-Israel movement to reclaim America as one nation under God.

01:26:51.360 --> 01:26:56.400
Caesar writes that Falwell succeeded probably better than any other American Christian leader

01:26:56.400 --> 01:27:00.560
in ensuring his followers recognize that their Christian duty to God

01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:06.960
involves providing unconditional support for the state of Israel. Boy, howdy. Doesn't that

01:27:06.960 --> 01:27:11.840
sound like a lot of people on Twitter and pretty much everywhere else right now? When you see news

01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:17.280
from the Middle East, this is the first thing that many people who call themselves Christians will

01:27:17.280 --> 01:27:23.760
say, we must support Israel. Those who bless Israel will be blessed. That's what God promised,

01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:29.200
and it's eternal, and blah, blah, blah. He goes into several chapters detailing specifically how

01:27:29.200 --> 01:27:35.520
utterly blasphemous and nonsensical that is. But again, when this was created and then passed

01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:42.080
through time, it has reshaped our world physically. It's reshaped the physical world. This isn't just

01:27:42.080 --> 01:27:49.600
about ideas. This isn't just footnotes and theories and theology. This is life and death.

01:27:50.400 --> 01:27:55.600
And again, part of the reason it's important for it to be discussed in the political sphere,

01:27:55.600 --> 01:28:01.360
even among unbelievers, is to explain it's not the no true Scotsman fallacy. For us to say the

01:28:01.360 --> 01:28:07.360
dispensationalism is evil. It is per se evil, because it's not simply that these people are

01:28:07.360 --> 01:28:12.480
getting a few things wrong. There are those. Maybe they've fallen for the dispensationalist lies,

01:28:12.480 --> 01:28:16.880
but they're not particularly invested in them. Those people are in error. They're Christians who've

01:28:16.880 --> 01:28:24.000
made a mistake. The problem is that when push comes to shove, the vast majority of radical adherence

01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:29.840
to dispensationalism, which is most of them, they're not many lightweight dispensationalists.

01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:36.560
If this is your bag, you're all the way. Those people will throw God out the window

01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:42.320
to support the terrorist state of Israel. And they think it is more important. They think it is more

01:28:42.320 --> 01:28:47.520
important to do these things than to have Jesus. And they were told by false teachers that Jesus

01:28:47.520 --> 01:28:55.200
said that's okay. It's interesting as he details in the book the history of this infiltration of

01:28:55.200 --> 01:29:00.400
these things. Every tale, televangelist you've ever heard, every name you would recognize

01:29:00.400 --> 01:29:06.560
as a grifter, as someone who is a thief and a liar and a blasphemer, they're all in there.

01:29:07.280 --> 01:29:11.680
They were all paid by the state of Israel to tell the lies that they told on TV.

01:29:13.120 --> 01:29:20.160
It was a system. They became fabulously wealthy serving Satan, because it's one of the promises

01:29:20.160 --> 01:29:25.840
of Satan made to Jesus. I'll give you everything. Just serve me. Well, Jesus said no, but these

01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:30.240
televangels, like, that's a great deal. I love a jet. I'd like a free jet. Wouldn't that be nice?

01:29:31.040 --> 01:29:35.840
These guys will happily sell out because they can convince themselves, well, no, it's okay.

01:29:36.400 --> 01:29:42.320
And so whether they are knowingly complicit in these lies, which I think virtually all of them are,

01:29:42.320 --> 01:29:46.160
I think they all are, whether or not they were knowingly complicit initially,

01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:51.200
they all have seared their consciousness to the point that they cannot possibly be Christian

01:29:51.200 --> 01:29:56.640
when they continue to perpetuate these things. But it's not just theology. It's not just a

01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:01.760
theological fight. And I think that's an overarching theme of the book and of Stone Choir.

01:30:01.760 --> 01:30:07.120
This stuff that we're talking about, it's not simply an interdenominational

01:30:07.120 --> 01:30:12.880
squabble over who's reading the Bible better. When these ideas are taken into the real world,

01:30:13.600 --> 01:30:18.560
civilizations rise or fall as a result. That makes it the most important thing that we can

01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:23.840
be talking about right now, as Cori alluded to earlier. Satan's not coming after justification.

01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:28.000
He's not coming after the nature, two natures of Christ or any of the other things that were

01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:33.680
past battles. He's coming after physical reality. He's coming after sex. He's coming after race.

01:30:33.680 --> 01:30:37.520
He's coming after nations and borders and saying none of those things exist.

01:30:37.600 --> 01:30:43.600
And virtually every church is going along with it. And the heresy of Christian Zionism was,

01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:48.560
in many cases, the solvent that made that possible. See, they were preaching against

01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:55.360
so-called anti-Semitism long before the anti-racism screed got fired up in churches.

01:30:55.360 --> 01:31:01.600
That's not a coincidence. The only way that we have current year problems in our schools and

01:31:01.680 --> 01:31:09.440
workplaces is traced directly back to this original invention. If you have people who are so evil

01:31:09.440 --> 01:31:15.440
that they're using the equivalent of napalm, that's effectively what white phosphorus is,

01:31:15.440 --> 01:31:20.480
it's just that it's something that you can get away with because there's a legitimate

01:31:20.480 --> 01:31:25.280
battlefield use for it. It's not how they use it. When they use that stuff against civilians,

01:31:25.280 --> 01:31:30.560
when they bomb hospitals, as they just did tonight, the dispensationalists are going to say,

01:31:30.560 --> 01:31:35.680
well, we got to bless Israel. Those Hamas people, those Muslims, they were the bad guys.

01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:44.080
To be clear, I don't think the Muslims are the good guys religiously. It's not that Jews and

01:31:44.080 --> 01:31:50.320
Muslims, one has a better religion, one has a worse religion because we know that they both

01:31:50.320 --> 01:31:56.480
worship Satan. That's what Scripture says. They don't worship Allah and Yahweh. They worship Satan

01:31:56.480 --> 01:32:00.880
because they don't worship Christ. They reject Christ as their religious identity.

01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:06.480
When we talk about this, it's not picking a side in that fight. It's simply saying,

01:32:07.040 --> 01:32:12.560
the evil that is being done is not being done. Hey, is there a problem? It's their fight. If

01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:17.200
they want to be evil to each other, it's none of our business. But when we look at what's happening,

01:32:17.200 --> 01:32:23.920
it's clear that the invention of Christian Zionism, so-called, was necessary for them to be able to

01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:28.560
get away with it. If any other country on the planet were doing what they're doing right now,

01:32:29.120 --> 01:32:35.360
we would have intervened to stop them. We would have bombed them to prevent it. Again, we try not

01:32:35.360 --> 01:32:41.520
to make this timely, but frankly, you could listen to this on any random day and any random year

01:32:41.520 --> 01:32:46.000
and have a pretty decent chance that it would still actually be ripped from the headlines,

01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:52.000
because this crap is always going on. It is going on because this doctrine was permitted among

01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:58.320
Christians, and it eventually replaced Christianity itself. I think one of the only things you really

01:32:58.320 --> 01:33:07.840
need to highlight how wicked dispensationalism is, Christian Zionism is, is 1 Timothy 5.8,

01:33:07.840 --> 01:33:13.200
a verse that we have used a number of times previously. If anyone does not provide for

01:33:13.200 --> 01:33:18.720
his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is

01:33:18.720 --> 01:33:27.840
worse than an unbeliever. And if you look at those who say that they support the nation of Israel,

01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:37.360
in quotes, they will, and they are, in fact, quite happy to, support Israel above and before their

01:33:37.360 --> 01:33:45.840
own. And this verse is very clear. That makes them apostate. You have, particularly among the

01:33:45.840 --> 01:33:51.920
older generation, but some in the younger generations as well, notably significantly decreasing,

01:33:51.920 --> 01:33:57.120
which is good news. But you have many who are willing to send their sons, their grandsons,

01:33:57.760 --> 01:34:07.760
over to die for Israel, in a war in which we have no interest, which will not benefit us in any way,

01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:13.200
shape or form, which does not involve us. Unless, of course, Israel decides to use the

01:34:13.200 --> 01:34:20.080
Samson option, but that is a separate matter. If they are willing to send their own flesh and

01:34:20.080 --> 01:34:26.400
blood, their own children, to die for some foreign people, they're worse than an unbeliever. That's

01:34:26.400 --> 01:34:34.160
what Scripture calls them. We cannot call the people who hold to these heresies Christian. Does

01:34:34.160 --> 01:34:40.800
that mean they are all damned? No, of course not. Lutherans have the perfect answer for this one.

01:34:40.800 --> 01:34:47.520
We call it felicitous inconsistency. We've mentioned this before. It may be that these men

01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:54.720
publicly profess one thing, but when it comes right down to it, they still trust in Christ.

01:34:55.520 --> 01:35:01.680
They still have faith. They still believe there is only one way to the Father. And certainly,

01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:09.920
we hope that for some of them at least, perhaps most of them. God, of course, hopes that all will

01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:17.120
be saved, and we agree with that. However, we recognize the evil of these men, and we recognize

01:35:17.120 --> 01:35:23.520
that many of them are hardened. Their consciences are seared. They have chosen wickedness. They have

01:35:23.520 --> 01:35:28.720
chosen evil. They are not Christians. And that is simply what Scripture says of them.

01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:36.320
We don't get to debate whether or not these men are Christians. If Scripture says they are not,

01:35:36.320 --> 01:35:43.040
then they are not. Even if, in their heart of hearts, where we cannot look, God alone can look,

01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:49.280
they happen still to be Christians, we have to deal with them according to what they do

01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:55.840
outwardly, because we can only look on the outward behavior. We can see what they say.

01:35:55.840 --> 01:36:01.280
We can see what they do. We have to judge according to those things, and we went over

01:36:01.280 --> 01:36:06.160
what it means to judge or judge not in a previous episode, conveniently entitled,

01:36:06.160 --> 01:36:11.440
Judge Not, not in parentheses. But we have to deal with these men,

01:36:12.880 --> 01:36:18.080
as they are, as we can see them, according to their deeds, according to their words.

01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:23.760
And according to their deeds and their words, they are apostate. They are outside the faith,

01:36:24.400 --> 01:36:29.600
because they do not provide for their relatives. They have abandoned their households. They have

01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:35.360
abandoned their own for the sake of foreigners, and not just for the sake of foreigners, but for

01:36:35.360 --> 01:36:44.160
the sake of particularly wicked and vile pagans in the encompassing sense of pagan, which simply

01:36:44.160 --> 01:36:50.640
means not Christian. It would be one thing if they were advocating that we have to interfere

01:36:50.640 --> 01:36:55.440
to protect Christians somewhere. And there have been opportunities for that recently. There have

01:36:55.440 --> 01:37:00.880
been many opportunities for that historically to defend persecuted Christians around the world.

01:37:01.520 --> 01:37:08.240
They aren't advocating for that. They're advocating that we go and shed our blood and expend our

01:37:08.240 --> 01:37:17.520
treasure for those who, every single day, multiple times a day, deliberately blaspheme God and curse

01:37:17.520 --> 01:37:24.240
Christians. There is absolutely no way we can call that Christian. And the details of those prayers

01:37:24.400 --> 01:37:30.880
are presented in one of the later chapters. In chapter 5 on the theology of Christian Zionism,

01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:35.600
the author does a really good job examining a number of the Zionist proof texts

01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:39.680
that have historically been deployed to basically get us to where we are today.

01:37:40.240 --> 01:37:46.400
I want to read a couple snippets here. For example, Carlson argues that the 1967

01:37:46.400 --> 01:37:52.400
New Schofield Reference Bible deifies the state of Israel. One newly inserted footnote reads,

01:37:52.400 --> 01:37:58.400
For a nation to commit the sin of anti-Semitism brings inevitable judgment. That's a footnote to

01:37:58.400 --> 01:38:04.880
Genesis 12-3. These words, which might as well have been written by Theodor Herzl or Ariel Charone,

01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:10.000
are found in the Bible. That is followed by millions of American churchgoers and students and is

01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:14.800
used by their leaders as a source for their preaching and teaching. Carlson explains that

01:38:14.800 --> 01:38:21.920
Oxford is hereby made antipathy toward the state of Israel a sin. Well, isn't that exactly what

01:38:21.920 --> 01:38:28.880
Cory and I are accused of? The sin of anti-Semitism? That didn't come from Scripture. In large part,

01:38:28.880 --> 01:38:34.960
it came from the Schofield update in 1967. These moving pieces, one of the reasons that we focus

01:38:34.960 --> 01:38:41.040
on the genealogy of ideas, is when you start looking at where this sin came from. Not only

01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:46.400
don't you find the Scripture, but you will find it in many cases within living memory. As a Christian,

01:38:46.400 --> 01:38:52.960
that should terrify you. That is literally a new religion being hot-swapped for our own. It's

01:38:52.960 --> 01:38:58.480
happening on the fly. It's like swapping organs in someone while they're alive. You put them on

01:38:58.480 --> 01:39:03.280
heart-long bypass and you just chop something out and you slap something in. That's what's being done

01:39:03.280 --> 01:39:09.120
to Christianity by this stuff. So the sins that have been made up in the 20th century that men

01:39:09.120 --> 01:39:15.600
like us are accused of are literally created for the purpose of achieving some of the other evils

01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:20.160
that he goes into this book. We're getting along. We're kind of close to two hours at this point.

01:39:20.160 --> 01:39:25.280
I can tell you I mentioned earlier there are a couple chapters. I only skimmed them because I

01:39:25.280 --> 01:39:29.600
was aware of some of the material and what we'll get into some of what that was. But the

01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:34.400
depths of the evil that are downstream from these things that we're talking about here,

01:39:35.360 --> 01:39:40.720
we're not even going to talk about it. I don't want to put it in your ears. I commend the book

01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:46.880
to folks. If you buy it, there are some chapters that you may choose to skip. You may get a few

01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:51.680
pages in. I can't take any more of this. And it's not that the author is doing anything bad. He's

01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:59.440
just unflinchingly reporting as a decent historian, as a good historian. Here are the facts and the

01:39:59.440 --> 01:40:08.240
facts are they're unspeakable. It's an overused term, but we're not going to speak them on this

01:40:08.240 --> 01:40:12.320
podcast because I don't want to do that to your ears. You can go opt into it and see on the page

01:40:12.320 --> 01:40:18.720
and decide if you want to be subjected to it. Another quote, by blessing the state of Israel,

01:40:18.720 --> 01:40:23.840
Christian Zionists believe that, as Schofield said, Gentiles today are thereby blessed in

01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:29.600
association with the state of Israel. They frequently misapply God's promise to Abraham

01:40:29.600 --> 01:40:36.080
that I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curses thee, and in thee shall all families

01:40:36.080 --> 01:40:44.480
of the earth be blessed. Now, this is a shocking and blasphemous misapplication of that passage

01:40:44.480 --> 01:40:49.360
because when Abraham is going to be used to bless all the families of the earth,

01:40:49.360 --> 01:40:54.320
that's talking about Jesus. And I think that's a seminal point that cannot be missed when we're

01:40:54.320 --> 01:41:02.480
looking at dispensationalism and Zionism. They replace Jesus in Scripture with the modern nation

01:41:02.480 --> 01:41:10.080
state of Israel. Just as the Holocaust replaced the crucifixion, and just as Hitler replaced Satan,

01:41:10.080 --> 01:41:15.600
you have these wholesale swaps of the fundamental elements of Christian doctrine,

01:41:15.600 --> 01:41:22.480
not small stuff, where we're not talking peripheral issues here. They literally remove Jesus from the

01:41:22.480 --> 01:41:30.960
explanation for this passage and insert a country, a modern synthetic country of wicked evil people.

01:41:30.960 --> 01:41:36.000
It's a pedophile capital of the world. It's the homosexual capital of the world. It's the transsexual

01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:41.760
capital of the world. It's Satan's throne on earth today. And when these people say,

01:41:41.760 --> 01:41:47.360
we must bless them at all costs, all cost is us, as Corey said in reference to 1 Timothy,

01:41:47.360 --> 01:41:53.920
as talking about us and our children, our posterity, let them die so that Israel might live. Why?

01:41:53.920 --> 01:42:01.360
Because of the promised Abraham. That's just demonic. I'm almost at a loss for words. And yet

01:42:02.560 --> 01:42:08.480
this is the essence of how Zionism works. There's bait and switch. There's a removal of Christianity

01:42:08.480 --> 01:42:14.560
in terms of sound Bible-y. This is the Jesus dust. And then what do you do? You start doing

01:42:14.560 --> 01:42:18.480
wicked things, and you say you're doing it in the name of God. And then you're off to the races,

01:42:18.480 --> 01:42:22.160
because if you're doing wicked things in the name of God, you got to do them as hard as you can.

01:42:23.120 --> 01:42:29.200
That's where we're at today. The Bible that was corrupted by Scofield and the false preaching

01:42:29.200 --> 01:42:35.040
that comes from the heresy of Christian Zionism is one of the things that uttered all of it.

01:42:35.040 --> 01:42:40.720
And necessary to those false beliefs, again, is racism and anti-Semitism. None of this works

01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:47.920
without those new sins. I think this whole discussion is a very good illustration of

01:42:48.560 --> 01:42:54.640
just how all this stuff is really tied together. And again, from my own background,

01:42:55.520 --> 01:43:01.760
I can attest that there's plenty of conservative Christians who would take issue with one thing

01:43:01.760 --> 01:43:08.320
here or one thing there. They don't like transsexualism, or maybe they're even uncomfortable with

01:43:08.320 --> 01:43:14.960
anti-whiteness. But they would really, really balk at understanding how all of these things are very

01:43:15.040 --> 01:43:21.360
intrinsically connected to another, and how you both were saying, and I especially liked what

01:43:22.480 --> 01:43:30.640
Corey was saying from the book of Timothy, how this leads to the sacrifice of your own family

01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:37.280
members and your own children on this false altar, this false idol of egalitarianism and

01:43:37.360 --> 01:43:45.840
anti-racism and anti-Semitism. And I'm not going to go into it because I think I've picked up on

01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:50.880
that from what you're saying. Well, but there's a chapter in the book as one of the ones that I

01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:59.360
also found difficult to read that talks about instances in recent history in the past decade

01:43:59.360 --> 01:44:07.200
or so of where you had people murdered by refugees or something like that, and the response by their

01:44:07.200 --> 01:44:15.360
own family members was not even to, in some cases to say we're forgiving, we just want to

01:44:15.360 --> 01:44:20.880
move on, but in some cases they even go further than they use it as they use the death of their own

01:44:20.880 --> 01:44:28.240
family members as an opportunity to attack the race even further. So it is really evil and it's

01:44:28.240 --> 01:44:38.720
really amazing how incredible this change to, again, what is kind of the cultural phenomenon

01:44:38.720 --> 01:44:44.560
of Christianity, how amazing that change has been when you kind of look back like this book does

01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:50.640
and you look at that journey and how it's taken place. That's a good point that's actually continued

01:44:50.640 --> 01:44:55.760
in the next chapter, which is on the myth of Judeo-Christianity, talking about the evolution

01:44:55.840 --> 01:45:00.800
of these things. This is just a great quote and I, I'd never heard it before, but it makes

01:45:00.800 --> 01:45:09.040
such perfect sense. Thorpe points to noontime on December 22nd, 1952 as the precise day,

01:45:09.040 --> 01:45:14.960
nay the precise hour, the term Judeo-Christian tradition achieved its vaunted victory over

01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:20.320
the term Christian tradition. President-elect Dwight Eisenhower declared that the American

01:45:20.320 --> 01:45:26.720
Republic is founded in a deeply felt religious faith and I don't care what it is. With us, of

01:45:26.720 --> 01:45:32.480
course, it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion that teaches all men are created

01:45:32.480 --> 01:45:38.880
equal. In one fell swoop, Eisenhower reconfigured the American founding to be Judeo-Christian,

01:45:39.440 --> 01:45:45.520
an unprecedented and a historical superimposition. Our Latter-day Saint Martin Luther King, Jr.,

01:45:45.520 --> 01:45:49.600
who shares with Jesus Christ the honor of a federal holiday for his birthday,

01:45:49.600 --> 01:45:55.360
utilized Judeo-Christian as a way of grafting historical logic onto the Black Power movement.

01:45:55.360 --> 01:46:01.440
By the 1980s, the appellation of a Judeo-Christian heritage, having begun its life as a slogan of

01:46:01.440 --> 01:46:07.040
Jewish revolutionaries, had achieved mainstream status such that it became a signature expression

01:46:07.040 --> 01:46:11.680
particularly among the religious right. And the term Judeo-Christian is used even in our

01:46:11.680 --> 01:46:17.520
seminaries by who are supposed to be the good guys, the conservative, the really solid confessional

01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:22.560
Lutheran seminary professors. Say Judeo-Christian and I think there's nothing wrong with it.

01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:26.880
That's something we got into in one of the episodes on the Jews, the four-part series.

01:46:27.440 --> 01:46:33.760
It's part of the Marcian heresy that the Old Testament is the Jewish book and the New Testament

01:46:33.760 --> 01:46:39.520
is the Christian book. And when you do that, suddenly you have two gods too. You have the

01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:44.480
God of the Old Testament, whom they often refer to. And then you have the God of the New Testament

01:46:44.480 --> 01:46:49.360
and we can see and touch and hear Jesus Christ in the New Testament. So he's a God in the New

01:46:49.360 --> 01:46:54.000
Testament. But in the Old Testament, there was this other God who was mean and he killed a lot of

01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:59.600
people and he had these harsh rules. But then the new God showed up and fixed it on, made us all loving.

01:47:00.400 --> 01:47:05.680
That's what we're told. Not in so many words in some cases, but when you say Judeo-Christian,

01:47:05.680 --> 01:47:10.160
that's what you're saying. You're saying, I buy into that, that there is one period for them and

01:47:10.160 --> 01:47:15.760
there's another period for us. That's basically just baby dispensationalism, which is not the case.

01:47:16.400 --> 01:47:25.120
As we laid out in one of those episodes, Noah, Adam, these men were not Jews. Abraham, not a Jew.

01:47:25.920 --> 01:47:32.320
They were Christians and they were not ethnically Jewish. It's complete nonsense. It's utterly

01:47:32.560 --> 01:47:40.080
historical. Jews lasted in Scripture for 2000 years from about 2000 BC to the birth of Christ.

01:47:40.080 --> 01:47:45.680
And then what continued, there was a rapid conversion of some of the Jews and it's important

01:47:45.680 --> 01:47:50.720
when we're discussing them as we did in those episodes. Many of the Jews of that day converted

01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:59.120
to Christianity. Much of the early church had been Jews, Jews by race and Jews by religion.

01:48:00.080 --> 01:48:03.120
The reason that they converted was that it wasn't really a conversion.

01:48:04.560 --> 01:48:08.320
They were Christians and when Christ showed up, when the Messiah showed up,

01:48:08.320 --> 01:48:12.640
like, yep, there he is. The Messiah who was prophesied was delivered to us.

01:48:12.640 --> 01:48:18.640
That is what happened and that's what they believed. Paul had to be converted because

01:48:18.640 --> 01:48:24.240
he was murderous. Mary didn't have to be converted. When the angel appeared to her and announced that

01:48:24.320 --> 01:48:28.880
she would be with child, she wasn't converted to a Christian. She's like, I believe you, God.

01:48:29.440 --> 01:48:35.120
It was the same faith one minute before is one minute after. She was a Christian the entire time.

01:48:35.760 --> 01:48:41.040
The necessity of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus was because he was a Pharisee.

01:48:41.040 --> 01:48:48.240
He was what rapidly became Talmudic Judaism, which is something that's discussed in an

01:48:48.240 --> 01:48:52.400
upcoming chapter. We're not going to get into details of it, but the Talmud is an absolutely

01:48:52.400 --> 01:48:59.840
wicked perverse book. When King Louis burned as many as he could get his hand on, he had the

01:48:59.840 --> 01:49:04.960
Disputation of Paris. That was a service to God. The rest of them should be burned as well.

01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:12.000
That would be appropriate for Christian states to do, not saying individuals should be stealing them,

01:49:12.000 --> 01:49:16.080
but those books should be burned. They're absolutely wicked. There are a bunch of quotes

01:49:16.080 --> 01:49:21.440
in the later chapter discussing that. Just make abundantly clear. Again, the author does a really

01:49:21.520 --> 01:49:25.840
good job of just laying out facts, just as we tried to do on Stone Square. Here you go,

01:49:25.840 --> 01:49:29.520
one fact after another. We're not going to delve into it too much because we're getting

01:49:29.520 --> 01:49:35.280
long on time. But when you present those things, a lot of what's presented, particularly in the

01:49:35.280 --> 01:49:42.240
later chapters on the Talmud, it's vile. It's absolutely wicked. It goes into the lies and

01:49:42.240 --> 01:49:50.000
the blasphemies that every Jew is taught, every Jew to this day, because after the destruction of

01:49:50.000 --> 01:49:55.920
the temple, they codified the beliefs of the Pharisees and the Sadducees who rejected Christ,

01:49:55.920 --> 01:49:58.640
and some of them converted. At least some of the Pharisees converted.

01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:08.240
Those who didn't accept Christ as their Savior produced a new religion. The Judeo and Judeo

01:50:08.240 --> 01:50:15.760
Christian, it's effectively saying, Satan no Christian, this satanic religion that emerged

01:50:15.760 --> 01:50:20.880
from the ashes of the destruction of the Second Temple among these absolutely apostate,

01:50:20.880 --> 01:50:28.560
demonic people whom Christ called the sons of Satan. Today, consciences are bound. If you don't

01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:33.440
say Judeo-Christian, there's something wrong with you because we have to recognize our elder

01:50:33.440 --> 01:50:39.040
brothers in the faith. Well, I recognize them to the extent that Scripture does, but I also

01:50:39.040 --> 01:50:45.120
recognize that the greater punishment is upon them because their inheritance they despise.

01:50:46.000 --> 01:50:52.560
We were grafted into the branch of Israel by God's grace, which makes us Israel and is a gift,

01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:58.080
just as everyone who receives faith is receiving it as a gift. That's basic Christian theology.

01:50:58.080 --> 01:51:02.880
And yet, if you say what Scripture says about the Jews today, you're literally called anti-Semitic.

01:51:02.880 --> 01:51:06.960
There are laws being passed around the country right now. It's already happened in Florida.

01:51:06.960 --> 01:51:13.760
If you say what Scripture says about the Jews, the theologically, you will face prison time.

01:51:14.480 --> 01:51:20.160
That's on our soil. And it shouldn't be any surprise because, again, all these things

01:51:20.160 --> 01:51:27.760
are in motion. All these theological quibbles quickly turn to policy and they'll turn to

01:51:27.760 --> 01:51:34.480
death and destruction and despair because Satan is running the board. So I'm really thankful that

01:51:34.480 --> 01:51:40.000
he laid out some of the details of that myth. It's something we've covered as well. But again,

01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:44.160
I think it's part of what makes this book a really good compliment to Stone Choir, particularly if

01:51:44.160 --> 01:51:47.680
you want to introduce some of these subjects to somebody who maybe isn't going to listen to a

01:51:47.680 --> 01:51:52.400
podcast or you think it might be too much. There are things in this book that will be shocking.

01:51:52.400 --> 01:51:57.440
Like you said, they go further than we want to discuss out loud simply for the sake of not

01:51:58.160 --> 01:52:05.280
giving people nightmares. But that's the level of detailed evil we're talking about. And it's

01:52:05.280 --> 01:52:13.360
inextricable as he makes the case in the next chapter on historical Christianity on Judaism.

01:52:13.360 --> 01:52:18.960
There's a short chapter. Bequotes Chrysostom and Luther saying the same things that we say that

01:52:19.760 --> 01:52:25.280
these are bad people. They're enemies of God. That's what God says. And as Christians,

01:52:25.280 --> 01:52:29.120
we should be able to say that without any fear or doubt. In fact, we're obligated to.

01:52:30.080 --> 01:52:35.520
If telling the truth is out of season and if itching ears want to hear something else,

01:52:35.520 --> 01:52:40.720
the Christian is still under an obligation to God Almighty to say what Scripture says. In fact,

01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:45.840
that's when it's the most important time to say it. If these things didn't matter, if no one cared,

01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:49.840
if they weren't getting people upset, sure, you could talk about other things because there'd be

01:52:49.840 --> 01:52:53.840
something else that would be upsetting people in Scripture. But today, these passages, these are the

01:52:53.840 --> 01:52:58.480
things that will inspire such anger and hatred that people will try to physically harm you.

01:52:59.920 --> 01:53:06.000
On the Talmud note, I have been asked a number of times recently for readings

01:53:06.880 --> 01:53:11.360
or book recommendations related to the Talmud. I will include one in the show notes.

01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:18.720
It is a book by Peter Schaefer, who is a Jewish professor, but it is a book on the passages,

01:53:19.520 --> 01:53:23.760
many of the passages, not all of them, dealing with Christ in the Talmud. It is

01:53:24.480 --> 01:53:30.720
quite frankly an important book for Christians to read or at least get a summary of what is covered.

01:53:30.720 --> 01:53:34.160
Eventually, we will get around to an episode on the Talmud proper.

01:53:35.200 --> 01:53:38.960
I will not promise when that will be, that's going to be in the distant future. We have many

01:53:38.960 --> 01:53:43.760
other things on the list to get through first. However, Schaefer's book does a good job of that

01:53:44.720 --> 01:53:51.920
and it also touches, to some degree, on the traditional Jewish prayers that curse Christians.

01:53:52.720 --> 01:53:56.960
I have answered that other places as well. Perhaps I will do a write-up on that at some point.

01:53:59.360 --> 01:54:05.040
But I want to be clear about the topics in this book that we are reviewing today,

01:54:05.040 --> 01:54:11.440
discussing today, that will make some of you uncomfortable. We are not trying to hide what

01:54:11.440 --> 01:54:19.360
they are. We are not playing coy. It is dealing with sex crimes. The reality of mass immigration,

01:54:19.360 --> 01:54:26.560
so-called, really invasion of the West by the Third World. The reality on the ground of what that

01:54:26.560 --> 01:54:35.520
means for largely women and children, but also in fact some men. I may be somewhat biased, but

01:54:36.320 --> 01:54:44.640
I would say that the treatment in this book is not unduly detailed. It is not unwarrantedly explicit.

01:54:44.640 --> 01:54:49.520
I think he strikes a fairly good balance when it comes to that describing the accounts,

01:54:49.520 --> 01:54:56.160
but not going into, like I said, not undue detail. But I've also read some rather horrible fact

01:54:56.160 --> 01:55:03.360
patterns for various legal cases in the past, so I may be a little biased on that. I do think that

01:55:03.360 --> 01:55:07.440
he does strike a good balance though, and I think Will would probably agree with me on that. Still

01:55:07.440 --> 01:55:14.880
unpleasant to read, of course, but it is the reality of the situation, and particularly for

01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:21.920
the male listeners, and that would be the majority of our audience, you are not given the luxury of

01:55:21.920 --> 01:55:28.240
ignoring reality, particularly when it is staring us in the face at every juncture as it is today.

01:55:30.080 --> 01:55:37.200
What is covered in those chapters will make you uncomfortable, will make you angry, and it should.

01:55:37.840 --> 01:55:42.960
And that's a good thing, because that is the proper Christian response, that is the proper

01:55:42.960 --> 01:55:50.400
response for a Christian man. It should drive us to want to change these things. It is an indictment

01:55:50.400 --> 01:55:56.720
of our forebears that, despite having this knowledge, despite seeing what is happening,

01:55:56.720 --> 01:56:04.960
they did nothing. We do not want to share in their wickedness by also failing to address these issues,

01:56:04.960 --> 01:56:10.560
and so it is important to understand the issues, to know what they are, to know what is happening,

01:56:10.560 --> 01:56:16.480
so that we can have a proper response to them. Yeah, I agree completely. When I said I skipped

01:56:16.480 --> 01:56:21.840
over the stuff, I was already familiar with it. I didn't need a refresher. Many of our listeners

01:56:21.840 --> 01:56:27.920
probably don't know. In Chapter 8, it goes into the Talmud specifically. It talks about the Talmud's

01:56:27.920 --> 01:56:33.600
hatred for Scripture. It talks about how it justifies violence and murder against Gentiles.

01:56:33.600 --> 01:56:41.360
That's everyone else. And then in Chapter 9, it goes into the specific manners in which they

01:56:42.400 --> 01:56:47.840
believe they are permitted to harm us. And like I said, I completely agree with what you said

01:56:47.840 --> 01:56:54.720
about the degree of detail it's given. It's citations. He's not just making stuff up. He's

01:56:54.720 --> 01:57:01.920
giving quotes and citations from real-world events over and over and over again. It doesn't

01:57:01.920 --> 01:57:06.880
belabor the point. It's necessary to reinforce that it's not just, oh, there was one bad guy.

01:57:07.600 --> 01:57:15.840
This is their religion. The religion of bombing hospitals and starving children is their religion.

01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:21.120
That's what they do. And when they're doing it in current year, in current moment,

01:57:21.680 --> 01:57:25.600
they're saying those people deserve it as they're doing it. That's their religion. They're being

01:57:25.600 --> 01:57:30.880
honest. They're being completely honest about whom they serve, except for calling them God. They serve

01:57:30.880 --> 01:57:37.600
Satan. But you can tell by their actions whom they actually serve. Chapter 9, the title is

01:57:37.600 --> 01:57:46.240
Case Studies in Jewish Hostility, Degeneracy, Filth, and Pornography. And he omitted the second

01:57:46.240 --> 01:57:53.200
half of that chapter from the header. But the second half is specifically about the sacrifice

01:57:53.200 --> 01:57:59.600
of children by Jews, murdering Christian children, ex-anglinating them, and using

01:58:00.320 --> 01:58:07.520
white children's blood for their magic rituals. Now, I think that probably most people listening

01:58:07.520 --> 01:58:13.680
don't know anything about that. You might know the term blood libel, but libel, obviously,

01:58:13.680 --> 01:58:20.080
it's false. Well, one of the great things about that chapter in this book is that he makes extensive

01:58:20.080 --> 01:58:27.200
citations from a scholarly work by a work called Blood Passover. It was published in 2007

01:58:28.080 --> 01:58:34.960
by a Jew named Ariel Tov, the son of the former chief rabbi of Rome. So this is a Jew who's

01:58:35.600 --> 01:58:42.560
did an excellent, incredibly in-depth historical examination of the entire history of Jews

01:58:42.560 --> 01:58:47.600
murdering Christian children and stealing their blood and using them for their magic rituals.

01:58:48.160 --> 01:58:52.880
Going back to the beginning of the 1st millennium, I think some of the earlier accounts were from

01:58:52.880 --> 01:58:58.880
like 400 AD. And it gives great detail in each of them. And again, I skipped some because I didn't

01:58:58.880 --> 01:59:05.520
know some of those details, but I don't need further convincing of just how demonic these people are.

01:59:05.520 --> 01:59:09.440
Some of you probably do. And that's one of the valuable things about this particular

01:59:10.560 --> 01:59:16.720
chapter is that the first part of it is talking about how they have used the liberalization

01:59:16.720 --> 01:59:24.560
of sexuality and sexualization of mass culture, which they, of course, control to act as a solvent

01:59:24.560 --> 01:59:30.720
against the church, against the family and against civilization itself. And again, it's a case where

01:59:30.720 --> 01:59:37.360
he goes into insignificant and necessary depth on the excitement that Jews have as they're doing

01:59:37.360 --> 01:59:42.800
these things. Pornography is entirely Jewish. The destruction of the laws against the dissemination

01:59:42.800 --> 01:59:48.320
of pornography also entirely Jewish. It was Jewish lawyers with Jewish plaintiffs or Jewish

01:59:48.320 --> 01:59:53.680
defendants, in most cases, because they're being prosecuted for committing crimes against America.

01:59:53.680 --> 01:59:58.160
And then Jewish judges would say, no, it's okay, we have the bill rights. And so you're allowed to do

01:59:58.160 --> 02:00:05.120
this horrible stuff. This is the enemy that the West faces. I think that's why I say I think the

02:00:05.120 --> 02:00:10.000
center half of this book is the most vital part of it because it lays out in detail,

02:00:10.000 --> 02:00:15.920
in documented detail. Well, again, this isn't just the author extemporaneously spouting off

02:00:15.920 --> 02:00:20.240
about this stuff. He does a good job as a historian, citing other historians who've

02:00:20.240 --> 02:00:24.960
delved into these things, like just laying it all out. When you look at the totality of the

02:00:24.960 --> 02:00:31.440
evidence that he presents, as Corey said, you're going to be angry. It made me viscerally angry

02:00:31.440 --> 02:00:37.040
to read this. It was a perfect hatred because the wickedness that is being done to us,

02:00:37.760 --> 02:00:44.080
again, as I said earlier, and we said in other episodes, we as Christians or even as non-Christians

02:00:44.080 --> 02:00:51.840
who are just decent Europeans would not act in these ways. Because even those Europeans who

02:00:51.840 --> 02:00:55.040
have abandoned the faith, because their families typically have abandoned the faith,

02:00:56.320 --> 02:01:03.200
still have the ambient morality of Christendom informing the culture that until recently

02:01:03.200 --> 02:01:10.160
surrounded us. The idea of harvesting organs from people while they're still alive because

02:01:10.160 --> 02:01:14.320
they're not Jews, we would never do that to someone. He's not white, just take his organs,

02:01:14.320 --> 02:01:19.920
it's fine. Don't use anesthesia either because that's going to mess up the organ. You got to do

02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:24.960
it while they're fully awake, cut their heart out. We have a Jew who needs it. There are accounts

02:01:24.960 --> 02:01:29.840
of that sort of thing in the book. They're historic accounts. They're real accounts. This

02:01:30.160 --> 02:01:35.600
actually happens. I think one of the important parts is you read through some of the chapters

02:01:35.600 --> 02:01:39.280
that specifically deal with horrors that we're not going to go any further details on.

02:01:41.280 --> 02:01:48.240
This is just the stuff where they got caught when that Ariel Tov goes back through the history of

02:01:49.360 --> 02:01:56.400
recorded murders of Christians by Jews to steal their blood for blood magic rituals.

02:01:56.480 --> 02:02:00.320
Those are just the times when they got caught. That's not the only times that they did it.

02:02:00.320 --> 02:02:03.920
That was the times where there was sufficient evidence that everyone agreed, yes, this actually

02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:10.720
happened. I said one of the earliest examples was from like 415. The later examples are from

02:02:10.720 --> 02:02:17.200
the 20th century. The stuff is still going on today. If you find that shocking, think back to

02:02:17.200 --> 02:02:22.800
what we found out was going on with Epstein and with that entire circle, with the paintings,

02:02:22.800 --> 02:02:27.840
in with the rooms and the chambers, in what was called Pizza Gate. Everyone's told,

02:02:27.840 --> 02:02:32.160
oh, that's just a conspiracy theory. Well, if you know nothing else, yes, it's unbelievable.

02:02:33.040 --> 02:02:36.720
If you know the history of these people and you start noticing the last names of the people

02:02:36.720 --> 02:02:44.080
involved, you take a second look because frankly, it's the only logical conclusion.

02:02:44.960 --> 02:02:50.000
Then when examining the evidence, it's literally the only conclusion. These people are guilty of

02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:55.520
things that we would never conceive of. That's part of why it's important for these heinous details

02:02:55.520 --> 02:03:02.160
that he provides in some of these middle chapters are important for us to read. Because if you don't

02:03:02.160 --> 02:03:07.360
know the evil you're facing, you're never going to respond appropriately when someone comes along

02:03:07.360 --> 02:03:13.040
in soothing tones and said, hi, I'm your Judeo-Christian friend. I'm from the other side of the tract,

02:03:13.040 --> 02:03:16.800
but we worship the same God. We just have different approaches. Don't worry about it.

02:03:17.600 --> 02:03:24.240
You know, he was taught as a child to murder the Goyim. That is what they're taught,

02:03:24.240 --> 02:03:30.800
it is what they believe. There's video to this day of little Jewish children in their own schools

02:03:31.840 --> 02:03:35.840
laughing and talking about how excited they are at the prospect of killing non-Jews.

02:03:36.560 --> 02:03:41.280
It's part of their religion. It's part of the religion that's concealed by the language barrier.

02:03:41.280 --> 02:03:45.840
It's one of the reasons that the translation of the Talmud was such a pivotal moment in history,

02:03:45.840 --> 02:03:51.040
because these things were secrets. It's one of the points that the historian who documented the

02:03:51.040 --> 02:03:56.960
so-called blood libel incidents makes very clear. The specific details in the accounts could only

02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:02.640
have possibly come from Jews, because all the practices were completely hidden. The Seder meal,

02:04:02.640 --> 02:04:08.640
which incidentally was part of a Satanic worship practice, the specific details that were revealed

02:04:08.640 --> 02:04:13.200
in some of the interrogations of the Jews who are guilty of these things, could only have come from

02:04:13.200 --> 02:04:17.920
a Jew. They couldn't have been made up by an accuser trying to falsely accuse a Jew of something

02:04:17.920 --> 02:04:24.160
he didn't do. Only someone who knew the intimate details of their secret of religion would have

02:04:24.160 --> 02:04:29.840
been able to divulge them. So for that reason, I commend the whole book, but I simultaneously

02:04:29.840 --> 02:04:35.200
warn you, there's stuff that's going to be hard to read. And as Corey said, you need to know,

02:04:35.200 --> 02:04:42.160
particularly as a man, as a husband, as a father, you need to know what you are facing as a blood

02:04:42.160 --> 02:04:47.680
enemy, as a mortal threat to your family, to your civilization. And that's really the crux of the

02:04:47.680 --> 02:04:53.920
book in its entirety, is that once you understand the threat that we're facing, it recontextualizes

02:04:53.920 --> 02:05:00.240
how we respond to it. If you just think that these are doctrinal disagreements, it's a church fight.

02:05:00.240 --> 02:05:04.160
When you realize that civilizations are rising and falling as a result of these battles,

02:05:05.120 --> 02:05:09.040
you have to take a different approach. And that's where the book concludes. There's some

02:05:09.040 --> 02:05:13.120
of the conclusions I don't really want to get into, because frankly, they're things that today,

02:05:13.680 --> 02:05:18.560
people are getting thrown in jail for. And it's not a matter of cowardice. You can draw your own

02:05:18.560 --> 02:05:24.160
conclusions. I don't need to bite a bullet for something that isn't going to move the ball.

02:05:25.040 --> 02:05:30.880
Read the book, deal with the facts as they're presented, and draw your own conclusions. But

02:05:30.880 --> 02:05:36.880
just be aware that when you're talking about everyone from Darby to Scofield to Jerry Falwell

02:05:36.880 --> 02:05:42.640
to Netanyahu, all on the same page, all saying the same things. And then DeSantis is passing laws

02:05:42.640 --> 02:05:47.040
saying you can be thrown in jail for disagreeing. That's real. You can go to jail for it, and you'll

02:05:47.040 --> 02:05:51.920
die in prison for it. There are a bunch of J6 prisoners who've died, some by their own hands.

02:05:53.440 --> 02:05:59.600
That's, those are the stakes. This stuff is not academic. And that's, that's why I'm glad that

02:05:59.600 --> 02:06:05.120
we're able to tackle this book today, because this stuff is, it's consequential. And it,

02:06:05.120 --> 02:06:09.360
unfortunately, it's timely, because it's, it's unfolding right before our eyes on,

02:06:09.360 --> 02:06:14.400
in the news today. But like you said, it's still going to be current in a few years, because until

02:06:14.400 --> 02:06:20.480
these people are ended, until they're stopped and they're evil, they will persist. They made clear

02:06:20.480 --> 02:06:25.360
for thousands of years, they will persist in evil as long as they're permitted to do it. And so as

02:06:25.360 --> 02:06:31.760
Christians, we have to decide how to respond to that faithfully. It's good that we've gone

02:06:31.760 --> 02:06:35.440
into some detail on some of the chapters. We're going to leave some as kind of a tease for you

02:06:35.440 --> 02:06:41.920
as listeners. Chapter 10 on ethno-nationalism. Corey and I both despise this word because

02:06:41.920 --> 02:06:48.080
it's redundant. There's no such thing as an ethno-nation. It's, it's a nation-nation. Natal

02:06:48.640 --> 02:06:55.680
is blood. Either it's a nation or it's a heterogeneous empire. The point is we need to get

02:06:55.680 --> 02:07:00.880
rid of the empires and get back to actually having nations. So I, just as a framing issue,

02:07:01.360 --> 02:07:06.000
he reaches good conclusions. But frankly, to say ethno-nationalism or ethno-nation

02:07:06.800 --> 02:07:10.480
is really seeding the frame to the enemy that there can be any other kind of nation. And there

02:07:10.480 --> 02:07:15.760
simply isn't either a nation or you're not. And right now, we're not, not in any meaningful sense.

02:07:15.760 --> 02:07:22.080
We don't have our own lands. We're being deracinated, being done forcibly in the church,

02:07:22.080 --> 02:07:27.920
in advertising and everything. So in that chapter, he covers some of the same ground that we've

02:07:27.920 --> 02:07:33.040
discussed in the past, talks about the passage about neither June or Greek, the flood and Noah's

02:07:33.040 --> 02:07:37.760
sons, talks about Babel. It's a fairly short chapter, but it covers some important scriptural

02:07:37.760 --> 02:07:43.760
ground and he does a good job there. In chapter 11, the title is evangelism at what cost,

02:07:43.760 --> 02:07:48.800
non-white, quote unquote, Christianity. And in this chapter, he makes the argument that we

02:07:48.800 --> 02:07:53.680
referenced towards the beginning about the global South syncretism that really goes back to the

02:07:53.680 --> 02:07:59.040
beginning of colonization. Effectively, wherever Christian Europeans have brought Christianity

02:07:59.040 --> 02:08:06.960
to non-white nations, virtually all of them have engaged in such a high degree of syncretism,

02:08:06.960 --> 02:08:12.960
meaning incorporating Christian beliefs and practices in with their demon worship. That's

02:08:12.960 --> 02:08:18.000
what it is. That's the syncretism. That's the, the syncretic part of it. You take,

02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:25.200
you take a belief from one religion and add it to a belief from another. And you don't end up with

02:08:25.200 --> 02:08:29.440
Christianity because you can't possibly. There's only one God and there's only one path to heaven.

02:08:30.320 --> 02:08:35.680
So he makes an argument in this chapter that in all the cases where Christianity has been

02:08:35.680 --> 02:08:43.200
brought to these people, they have butchered Christianity. And one of the important things

02:08:43.840 --> 02:08:49.200
for Corey in me as we're tackling these subjects is that that's no excuse not to take the gospel to

02:08:49.200 --> 02:08:54.560
them, but it does raise the question, when you have taken the gospel to people who are only ever

02:08:54.560 --> 02:09:02.480
going to butcher it, if they're not supervised heavily, the open question, at least for me,

02:09:02.480 --> 02:09:08.400
is, are we obligated to heavily supervise them? Or is it sufficient to take the gospel and then

02:09:08.400 --> 02:09:13.520
set them loose? Corey has his opinions. I have mine. They're not, they're not the point of this

02:09:13.520 --> 02:09:20.560
discussion, but I think it is interesting that this, this chapter is a good companion to the

02:09:20.560 --> 02:09:25.360
episode that we did on race and IQ, where we took the same subject from a different angle,

02:09:26.000 --> 02:09:32.160
not talking about their spiritual inclination to syncretize with their pagan beliefs, their demonic

02:09:32.160 --> 02:09:38.640
acts. We took it from the perspective that they, their IQs are so low that apart from any spiritual

02:09:38.640 --> 02:09:43.600
issues that these people may have, they're still not smart enough to actually do it. And we make

02:09:43.600 --> 02:09:47.520
the case there. So he doesn't tackle that. He tackles it from another perspective, which is

02:09:47.520 --> 02:09:53.680
is important. Again, these are complementary presentations. Chapter 12 is titled pro-slavery

02:09:53.680 --> 02:09:59.840
theology. Slavery is not a biblical sin. He does a very strong scriptural defense of the institution

02:09:59.840 --> 02:10:05.680
of slavery. He provides some good details on how masters in the South were held to account

02:10:05.680 --> 02:10:12.000
socially and legally if they abused their slaves. The one small chrism I have of this chapter is

02:10:12.000 --> 02:10:16.320
very clear that he is a Southerner, and probably so. I don't have a problem with that. As I've said

02:10:16.320 --> 02:10:22.720
before, I'm a, I'm from a mixed race marriage. My dad's a Yankee going back to Plymouth Rock,

02:10:22.720 --> 02:10:30.000
and my mom is a hillbilly going back to Plymouth Colony. So I was raised Yankee. I effectively

02:10:30.000 --> 02:10:35.200
am a Yankee. But at the same time, I have complete sympathy for the plight of the Southerner.

02:10:35.920 --> 02:10:39.680
And I understand where they're coming from when they're pissed about what was done in the War of

02:10:39.680 --> 02:10:45.920
Northern Aggression. The problem that I have with this chapter is that one, he tries to make

02:10:46.720 --> 02:10:52.560
the slavery issue center around Yankee versus Confederate. And it's not really the subject

02:10:52.560 --> 02:10:56.480
of the chapter, but it's something that we see elsewhere, particularly in the distant right

02:10:56.480 --> 02:11:02.640
and online. There's a lot of public antipathy of Southerners, typically in one direction. It's usually

02:11:03.280 --> 02:11:08.160
people saying they hate Yankees, which is really weird because when you actually look at much of

02:11:08.160 --> 02:11:13.200
the prosecution of the war itself, you find a lot of Jewish names, and you find that a lot of the

02:11:13.200 --> 02:11:18.720
soldiers, as we all know, were Germans and Irish. They were just fresh off the boat, and then they

02:11:18.720 --> 02:11:24.080
were sent down to kill Americans in the South, which was despicable and evil. But to call

02:11:24.080 --> 02:11:28.800
some guy fresh off the boat a Yankee is kind of goofy. Now, it was certainly the Yankees sending

02:11:28.800 --> 02:11:33.840
them, but the other conspicuous thing that's missing from this chapter that I found particularly

02:11:33.840 --> 02:11:38.960
weird in light of how well he handled the Jewish question in the middle part of the book was it

02:11:39.040 --> 02:11:46.560
there's zero mention of Jews at any point in the slavery chapter, which I think is a material

02:11:46.560 --> 02:11:51.360
mission, because we know for a fact that a substantial portion of Southern slavery and

02:11:51.360 --> 02:12:00.000
slaveholding was tied to Jews. So his framing is, it's got to be Confederate versus Yankee,

02:12:00.000 --> 02:12:04.000
and it would really confuse that narrative to say that they were Jews present. I think that

02:12:04.720 --> 02:12:10.000
more fleshed out historical approach to the subject, which is being to include all those

02:12:10.000 --> 02:12:14.160
things, that there were different things in the mix, and I don't want to say there were bad people

02:12:14.160 --> 02:12:20.080
on both sides, because it was a war of northern integration. The evil was predominantly being

02:12:20.080 --> 02:12:26.560
done from the north to make it crystal clear. The South had every right to secede. They had every

02:12:26.560 --> 02:12:31.200
right to their own self-determination. It was wicked that that was prevented. I despise that as

02:12:31.200 --> 02:12:36.160
much as any Southerner, because it was unjust. It was an evil thing on its face. I don't think

02:12:36.160 --> 02:12:43.360
that you have to hate Yankees 170 years later in order to make your case, but that small quibble

02:12:43.360 --> 02:12:47.520
aside, it doesn't change the really good job he does treating the subject of slavery.

02:12:48.960 --> 02:12:54.160
And the last section is Theories of Christian Violence, and he talks about pacifism. He does

02:12:54.160 --> 02:13:00.640
a good job dealing with turning the other cheek and warfare and scripture. Next chapter, he deals

02:13:00.640 --> 02:13:07.840
with holy war. I find that a little bit of a strange shift to go from—basically he's trying

02:13:07.840 --> 02:13:14.400
to make the case that there is the justification for muscular Christianity that is not ashamed

02:13:15.040 --> 02:13:21.360
of having a national identity, when a Christian nation exercises its Christian rights as a nation

02:13:21.360 --> 02:13:26.240
to do things that in some cases may involve violence against other nations.

02:13:26.880 --> 02:13:34.000
I think if he knew more about Lutheran doctrine, not to plug us, but some of the treatment that came

02:13:34.000 --> 02:13:40.720
out of the 16th century from some of the Lutheran reformers, I think has some material that would

02:13:40.720 --> 02:13:45.120
have helped him make a slightly different case, because when you talk about holy war,

02:13:45.920 --> 02:13:49.600
that kind of limits where you can actually fight a war over. And I don't think a war needs to be

02:13:49.600 --> 02:13:54.880
holy to be just. You don't have to be liberating the Holy Land or something to say that

02:13:55.120 --> 02:14:01.040
it is permissible and, in fact, necessary for a Christian prince to go to war to protect his

02:14:01.040 --> 02:14:05.600
people and his interests. The problem today is fundamentally, we don't have Christian rulers,

02:14:05.600 --> 02:14:12.000
and when we do go to war, it's for the worst possible reasons. And then the last chapter,

02:14:12.000 --> 02:14:21.120
he's specifically dealing with abortion and the treatment of the unborn and legal responses to it.

02:14:21.840 --> 02:14:27.120
And as I said, that's kind of one of the most fraught chapters in the book simply because

02:14:27.840 --> 02:14:33.120
it will be treated as something that you can get into legal trouble for talking,

02:14:33.120 --> 02:14:36.880
for fleshing out some of the things that he says. And I don't fault him for it,

02:14:36.880 --> 02:14:42.640
I think that it's an important moral point to be made. And then there's also the legal reality

02:14:42.640 --> 02:14:49.680
that people want to see us dead and any excuse will do. And a careless word is very easy to get

02:14:49.680 --> 02:14:54.560
you in a position where you can go to jail where you may die. You may be there for the rest of your

02:14:54.560 --> 02:15:00.240
life for saying something that's entirely scriptural and entirely moral. But I think, again,

02:15:00.240 --> 02:15:06.240
I think the meat of the book, for me at least, was the really well fleshed out work that he did

02:15:06.880 --> 02:15:11.440
dealing with the history of Jews and of Zionism. And now that they're inextricable,

02:15:12.560 --> 02:15:16.800
the fact that dispensationalism was inserted into Christianity and is now shaping

02:15:16.800 --> 02:15:21.200
world politics is a huge deal. And he provides a lot of really excellent detail there.

02:15:21.200 --> 02:15:26.080
So overall, I think Corey and I both absolutely commend this book to anyone who wants to delve

02:15:26.080 --> 02:15:31.040
into some of these subjects. It's not perfect. And that's not a criticism. Like I said, if I wrote

02:15:31.040 --> 02:15:34.480
a book, I don't think I would necessarily do as well as him. He did a really good job with the

02:15:34.480 --> 02:15:39.840
research and you have to give a lot of credit to someone who's willing to put in this time. So

02:15:40.880 --> 02:15:45.200
again, as we make these relatively small criticisms of different points,

02:15:45.280 --> 02:15:48.720
I don't think any of them detract from the book. And I think that's a crucial point.

02:15:49.280 --> 02:15:53.120
But as you're reading them, it's important for you to draw your own conclusions.

02:15:53.120 --> 02:15:57.760
I think that the facts that are presented, there's only one possible conclusion about those facts.

02:15:57.760 --> 02:16:03.520
You will become very angry because any Christian, any decent human being

02:16:03.520 --> 02:16:08.000
would become very angry reading some of those. And some of the other stuff is just very interesting

02:16:08.000 --> 02:16:12.640
and formative history. Like, wow, I had no idea. But then when you see the arc of history plotted

02:16:12.640 --> 02:16:19.520
out, suddenly, the things we see today make perfect sense because we can see where they came from,

02:16:19.520 --> 02:16:25.040
where without someone drawing you a straight line or maybe a squiggly line in some places,

02:16:25.040 --> 02:16:30.160
you wouldn't necessarily notice. And so it's a very valuable book. I'm glad that Ann Low Pill

02:16:30.160 --> 02:16:37.040
has published it. And I'm very thankful to Giles Corey for writing it because it's important for

02:16:37.040 --> 02:16:42.400
there to be Christian voices in this space. And for us to be frank, just as when we approach

02:16:42.400 --> 02:16:48.320
these subjects, we go into as not much detail as is necessary. Again, it's no criticism of him,

02:16:48.320 --> 02:16:52.240
in some cases, going into great detail. This is a place for it. You do that in a book.

02:16:53.600 --> 02:16:58.800
You can't really skip it and you're easily in a podcast. And some of the scuffs is,

02:16:58.800 --> 02:17:04.000
frankly, it's kind of scarring. That's important. You are not permitted to be ignorant of how evil

02:17:04.000 --> 02:17:08.880
the world is as a Christian man. You need to know how bad things are because it's the only

02:17:08.880 --> 02:17:14.400
possible way that we as Christians can be faithful to God in preserving what he intends for us to have.

02:17:15.760 --> 02:17:22.080
So thank you to Taylor from Ann Low Pill for presenting this and giving us the opportunity.

02:17:22.640 --> 02:17:25.440
Again, thank you for the free copy. I forgot to mention that up front.

02:17:26.240 --> 02:17:31.680
And we'll put a link in the show notes to the book itself. Corey's going to end with that

02:17:31.680 --> 02:17:37.200
couple quotes from the book that was referenced, I think, really lay out a good case for why all

02:17:37.200 --> 02:17:42.640
this matters. Thank you guys again very much for having me on. It's been really great. And I hope

02:17:42.640 --> 02:17:47.120
that I'm glad you guys enjoyed the book. And I hope people who are listening will enjoy it as well.

02:17:47.680 --> 02:17:52.160
I'm sure that they will. It's a good resource for an overview for a number of different subjects

02:17:52.160 --> 02:17:57.680
and also does, as mentioned, dive into detail on some of them. From a Lutheran perspective,

02:17:57.680 --> 02:18:02.560
yes, I would have loved to have seen a reference to the Magdeburg Confession, which is a vitally

02:18:02.560 --> 02:18:08.080
important document in Christian history when it comes to resistance against unlawful or tyrannical

02:18:08.080 --> 02:18:15.280
authority. But we'll eventually get into that in a different episode. Conveniently, in my case,

02:18:15.280 --> 02:18:20.480
I had already read basically all of the books of a scholarly nature that are in the footnotes in

02:18:20.480 --> 02:18:26.000
the book. So I happened to grab one from my shelves. And it is the Passovers of Blood book by Ariel

02:18:26.000 --> 02:18:33.120
Toef. It is a scholarly work. It is very well done. I guess I can recommend it for some of the

02:18:33.120 --> 02:18:39.760
listeners. Like I said, it is a scholarly work. It is going to be a little on the dry side. It is

02:18:39.760 --> 02:18:46.240
technical. It is going to demand, if you at least a little bit of knowledge of Latin. There's also

02:18:46.240 --> 02:18:53.040
some Italian, a few other things in here. But we're going to close with a couple passages from

02:18:53.040 --> 02:18:59.840
this separated by a number of centuries to give the right sort of framing and impression of things.

02:19:02.160 --> 02:19:08.480
On the eve of Passover 1144, the mutilated body of William, a child of twelve years, was found in

02:19:08.480 --> 02:19:14.160
Thorpe's Wood, on the edge of Norwich, England. No witness came forward to cast light on the

02:19:14.160 --> 02:19:20.000
savage crime. The child's uncle, a cleric by the name of Godwin Sturt, publicly accused the Jews

02:19:20.000 --> 02:19:24.640
of the crime in a diocesan synod held a few weeks after the discovery of the body.

02:19:26.000 --> 02:19:32.960
A few years later, between 1150 and 1155, Thomas of Monmouth, prior of the Cathedral of Norwich,

02:19:32.960 --> 02:19:38.160
reconstituted with plentiful details and testimonies the various phases of the crime,

02:19:38.800 --> 02:19:44.880
perpetrated by local Jews, and prepared a detailed and extensive hagiographic report of the event.

02:19:45.840 --> 02:19:50.080
These were the origins of what is considered by many to have been the first documented case

02:19:50.080 --> 02:19:54.800
of ritual murder in the Middle Ages, while for others it is the source of the myth of the

02:19:54.800 --> 02:20:01.280
blood libel accusation. The latter considered Thomas to have been the inventor and propagator

02:20:01.280 --> 02:20:07.040
of the stereotype of ritual crucifixion, soon to be rapidly disseminated not only in England,

02:20:07.040 --> 02:20:12.800
but in France and the German territories as well, fed by the information relating to the now famous

02:20:12.800 --> 02:20:17.440
tale of the martyrdom of William of Norwich by the Jews in the days of Passover.

02:20:19.280 --> 02:20:23.200
William was an apprentice tanner in Norwich and came from an adjacent village.

02:20:23.760 --> 02:20:28.160
Among the shop's clients were a few local Jews who are thought to have chosen him as the victim

02:20:28.160 --> 02:20:34.000
of a ritual sacrifice to be performed during the days of the Christian Easter. On the Monday

02:20:34.000 --> 02:20:40.080
following Palm Sunday, 1144, during the reign of King Stephen, a man claiming to be the cook for

02:20:40.080 --> 02:20:45.520
the archdeacon of Norwich presented himself in the village of William, asking his mother Alvaiva

02:20:45.520 --> 02:20:50.640
for permission to take William with him to work as an apprentice. The woman's suspicions and

02:20:50.640 --> 02:20:56.080
hesitation were soon won over, thanks to a considerable sum of money. The following day

02:20:56.080 --> 02:21:00.320
little William was already travelling the streets of Norwich in the company of the self-proclaimed

02:21:00.320 --> 02:21:06.480
cook, directly to the dwelling of his aunt Levaiva, Godwin Sturt's wife, who became informed

02:21:06.480 --> 02:21:11.200
of the apprenticeship undertaken by the child and his new patron. But the latter individual

02:21:11.200 --> 02:21:16.240
awakened numerous suspicions in the aunt Levaiva, who asked a young girl to follow them and determine

02:21:16.240 --> 02:21:21.440
their destination. The shadowing, as discreet as it was effective, took the child to the

02:21:21.440 --> 02:21:25.920
threshold of the dwelling of Eleazar, one of the heads of the community of Norwich,

02:21:25.920 --> 02:21:30.320
where the cook had little William enter the house with the necessary prudence and circumspection.

02:21:30.720 --> 02:21:36.160
At this point Thomas of Monmouth allowed another key witness to speak, one who had been strategically

02:21:36.160 --> 02:21:42.560
placed inside the Jew's house. This was Eleazar's Christian servant, who, the following morning,

02:21:42.560 --> 02:21:47.840
had by chance witnessed with horror, through the crack of a door left inadvertently open,

02:21:47.840 --> 02:21:53.040
the cruel ceremony of the child's crucifixion and atrocious martyrdom, with the participation

02:21:53.040 --> 02:21:59.360
carried out with religious zeal of local Jews. In contempt of the passion of our Lord,

02:21:59.680 --> 02:22:04.160
Thomas kept the date of the crucial event clearly in mind. It was the Wednesday following

02:22:04.160 --> 02:22:11.760
Palm Sunday, 22 March of the year 1144. To throw off suspicion, the Jews decided to transport

02:22:11.760 --> 02:22:16.560
the body from the opposite side of the city to Thorbes Wood, which extended to within a short

02:22:16.560 --> 02:22:22.080
distance from the last house. During the trip on horseback with the cumbersome sack, however,

02:22:22.080 --> 02:22:26.960
despite their efforts at caution, they crossed the path of a respected and wealthy merchant of the

02:22:27.920 --> 02:22:33.840
locality on his way to church, accompanied by a servant. The merchant had no difficulty

02:22:33.840 --> 02:22:38.880
realizing the significance of what was taking place before his eyes. He is said to have remembered

02:22:38.880 --> 02:22:44.080
years later on his deathbed and to have confessed to a priest who then became one of the diligent

02:22:44.080 --> 02:22:49.120
and indefatigable Thomas's valued sources of information. Young William's body was

02:22:49.120 --> 02:22:52.080
finally hidden by the Jews among the bushes of Thorpe.

02:22:52.240 --> 02:22:59.760
Ritual murder accusations have been made against the Jews for thousands of years.

02:23:00.400 --> 02:23:04.480
The murders were sometimes alleged to have been accompanied by ritual cannibalism,

02:23:04.480 --> 02:23:10.000
but not always. In every case it is rather improbable the testimonies which have come down

02:23:10.000 --> 02:23:15.200
to us from antiquity were known, and disseminated in the Middle Ages, and could constitute a

02:23:15.200 --> 02:23:20.480
significant point of reference for later accusations of crucifixion and ritual cannibalism.

02:23:20.560 --> 02:23:25.840
As early as the second century before Christ, the almost unknown Greek historian

02:23:25.840 --> 02:23:31.760
Democritus, who probably lived in Alexandria, recorded a violently biased anti-Jewish testimony,

02:23:31.760 --> 02:23:35.200
at that time referred to under his name in Sweden's Greek Dictionary.

02:23:35.840 --> 02:23:40.400
According to Democritus, the Jews were accustomed to render worship to a golden head of an ass.

02:23:41.040 --> 02:23:45.840
Every seven years they abducted a foreigner to sacrifice him, tearing the body to pieces.

02:23:46.640 --> 02:23:50.560
This horrible rite is said to have taken place probably every seven years

02:23:50.560 --> 02:23:53.840
in the Temple of Jerusalem, sanctuary of the Jewish religion.

02:23:55.280 --> 02:24:00.400
A report only partly similar to that reported by Democritus is found in the polemical contra

02:24:00.400 --> 02:24:06.720
Apione by Flavius Josephus, quoting the tendentiously anti-Jewish rhetorician Apione,

02:24:06.720 --> 02:24:10.320
who lived at Alexandria during the first century of the Christian era.

02:24:10.480 --> 02:24:16.240
According to Apione, Antiochus Epiphane, entering the Temple of Jerusalem,

02:24:16.240 --> 02:24:20.880
is said to have been surprised to find a Greek stretched on a bed and surrounded by exquisite

02:24:20.880 --> 02:24:25.440
foods and rich dishes. The prisoner's report was extraordinary and horrifying.

02:24:26.320 --> 02:24:31.040
The Greek said that he had been captured by the Jews and taken to the Temple and concealed from

02:24:31.040 --> 02:24:36.800
everyone while they force fed him on all sorts of foods. At first the unusual circumstances in

02:24:36.800 --> 02:24:41.440
which he found himself did not greatly displease him until the sanctuary attendants revealed

02:24:41.440 --> 02:24:46.960
the fate waiting in store for him. He was fated to die, the predestined victim of

02:24:46.960 --> 02:24:53.680
homicidal Jewish sacrificial practices. Quote, the Jews carry out this rite every year

02:24:53.680 --> 02:24:58.080
on a pre-established date. They catch a Greek merchant and feed him for a whole year.

02:24:58.640 --> 02:25:03.280
They later take him into a forest, kill him, and sacrifice him according to their religion.

02:25:03.440 --> 02:25:08.400
They then savor the viscera, and in the moment of sacrificing the Greek,

02:25:08.400 --> 02:25:13.600
they swear their hatred of all Greeks. They then dump the remains of the carcass into a ditch.

02:25:15.120 --> 02:25:20.320
Flavius Josephus reports that the history recounted by Apione was not invented by him,

02:25:20.320 --> 02:25:25.520
but was rather derived from other Greek writers, an indication that its dissemination must have been

02:25:25.520 --> 02:25:30.720
much more widespread than we are led to imagine based on the two only surviving accounts,

02:25:30.720 --> 02:25:32.880
i.e. of Democritus and Apione.

02:25:35.840 --> 02:25:41.200
And we will end this episode with one other brief reading from this particular book.

02:25:43.360 --> 02:25:48.400
The Christian Europe of the Middle Ages feared the Jews is an established fact. Perhaps the

02:25:48.400 --> 02:25:53.440
widespread fear the Jews were scheming to abduct children, subjecting them to cruel rituals,

02:25:53.440 --> 02:25:58.720
even antidates the appearance of stereotypical ritual murder, which seems to have originated

02:25:58.720 --> 02:26:04.160
in the 12th century. As for myself, I believe that serious consideration should be given to the

02:26:04.160 --> 02:26:10.000
possibility that this fear was largely related to the slave trade, particularly in the 9th and 10th

02:26:10.000 --> 02:26:14.160
centuries, when the Jewish role in the slave trade appears to have been preponderant.

02:26:15.200 --> 02:26:19.360
During this period, Jewish merchants from the cities in the Valley of the Rhone,

02:26:19.360 --> 02:26:25.760
Verdun, Lyon, Arles, and Narbonne, in addition to Aquisgrana, the capital of the Empire in

02:26:25.760 --> 02:26:30.560
the times of Louis the Pius, and in Germany from the centres of the Valley of the Rhine,

02:26:30.560 --> 02:26:37.040
from Worms, Magonsa, and Magdeburg, in Bavaria and Bohemia, from Regensburg and Prague,

02:26:37.040 --> 02:26:42.560
were active in the principal markets in which slaves, women, men, eunuchs, were offered for

02:26:42.560 --> 02:26:49.360
sale by Jews sometimes after abducting them from their houses. From Christian Europe the

02:26:49.360 --> 02:26:55.120
human merchandise was exported to the Islamic lands of Spain, in which there was a lively market,

02:26:55.120 --> 02:26:59.840
the castration of these slaves, particularly children, raised their prices,

02:26:59.840 --> 02:27:11.040
and was no doubt a lucrative and profitable practice.