Transcript: Episode 0062

This transcript:
  1. Was machine generated.
  2. Has not been checked for errors.
  3. May not be entirely accurate.


00:00:37.309 --> 00:00:39.469
<v SPEAKER_1>Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast.

00:00:39.769 --> 00:00:40.769
<v SPEAKER_1>I am Corey J.

00:00:40.789 --> 00:00:41.189
<v SPEAKER_1>Mahler.

00:00:41.789 --> 00:00:43.009
<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm still woe.

00:00:45.109 --> 00:00:48.669
<v SPEAKER_2>On today's Stone Choir, we're going to be discussing the subject of slander.

00:00:49.249 --> 00:00:51.249
<v SPEAKER_2>This is part of one of the Ten Commandments.

00:00:51.849 --> 00:00:54.409
<v SPEAKER_2>It is something that appears throughout scripture.

00:00:54.709 --> 00:01:01.949
<v SPEAKER_2>In fact, a week or so ago when we picked this topic, I didn't realize just how much of an in-depth Bible study this could turn into.

00:01:02.529 --> 00:01:09.629
<v SPEAKER_2>There are easily hundreds of passages about slander and bearing false witness and the like in and throughout scripture.

00:01:10.749 --> 00:01:17.469
<v SPEAKER_2>We're not going to belabor the point with hundreds of verses, but we're probably going to tackle 20 or so today that are key.

00:01:18.589 --> 00:01:26.649
<v SPEAKER_2>The reason that we're tackling slander in particular is that this is not only a live issue in the world, which I think we all understand.

00:01:27.889 --> 00:01:36.349
<v SPEAKER_2>It is such a vital issue inside the church that it is very realistically destroying some churches today.

00:01:37.029 --> 00:01:41.869
<v SPEAKER_2>And Corey and I have been first-party victims of some of that behavior.

00:01:42.509 --> 00:01:48.429
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as we talk about the subject today, we're going to be talking about in various places some of those particulars.

00:01:48.969 --> 00:01:52.789
<v SPEAKER_2>At the outset, I want to say something to folks who've been listening for a while.

00:01:53.869 --> 00:02:01.509
<v SPEAKER_2>A week or so ago, James O'Keefe recently of Project Veritas div another one of his exposes.

00:02:01.529 --> 00:02:09.249
<v SPEAKER_2>And leading up to it, he had this super melodramatic flaming excuse for, I'm not suicidal.

00:02:09.269 --> 00:02:09.809
<v SPEAKER_2>They're after me.

00:02:09.829 --> 00:02:10.649
<v SPEAKER_2>They're trying to kill me.

00:02:11.109 --> 00:02:12.229
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm a truth teller.

00:02:12.229 --> 00:02:13.209
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm blah, blah, blah.

00:02:14.149 --> 00:02:26.089
<v SPEAKER_2>And as he was putting on his little performance, I realized that some of the things that he was saying sounded all similar or a lot like some of the things that I have said about having been docs and some of the other things in the past.

00:02:26.609 --> 00:02:34.149
<v SPEAKER_2>And I realized that I'm sure that some of you who heard some of those things were really put off by it and thought that I was being melodramatic.

00:02:34.169 --> 00:02:36.809
<v SPEAKER_2>And so I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

00:02:37.089 --> 00:02:38.569
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a genuine apology.

00:02:38.829 --> 00:02:39.529
<v SPEAKER_2>It's revolting.

00:02:39.809 --> 00:02:41.349
<v SPEAKER_2>I wouldn't want anyone to feel like that.

00:02:41.609 --> 00:02:42.689
<v SPEAKER_2>It was not my intent.

00:02:43.289 --> 00:02:50.229
<v SPEAKER_2>And so we've kind of put the cart before the horse by talking about that subject without making this case first.

00:02:50.849 --> 00:02:57.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And so the reason I mentioned that is, again, we have to give the specific examples because they're vital.

00:02:57.309 --> 00:03:04.109
<v SPEAKER_2>They're relevant to demonstrate the principle and the practical effects of these things in the real world.

00:03:04.769 --> 00:03:10.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And because these things have been done to Corey and myself, we can speak to them as experts.

00:03:10.629 --> 00:03:17.929
<v SPEAKER_2>But in the past when I've discussed and we talk about today, it is not a plea for attention or for pity or anything of the sort.

00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:35.869
<v SPEAKER_2>When I've discussed it in the past, what I had in mind was the two hours that we're going to do today on Slander about the fact that when you destroy a man's reputation, you involve everyone else, whoever hears and entertains those lies, in your wickedness, in your sin.

00:03:36.489 --> 00:03:40.109
<v SPEAKER_2>That is in some ways far worse than even murdering the man.

00:03:40.649 --> 00:03:48.609
<v SPEAKER_2>If you kill someone, it's one and done and there's only one sinner involved, and lots of people are hurt by it, one directly and others indirectly.

00:03:49.749 --> 00:04:04.789
<v SPEAKER_2>On the other hand, when you slander a man, when you destroy his reputation, which it takes a lifetime to earn and a moment to lose, the effect of the spreading of the slander necessarily implicates every single person who hears it and participates it.

00:04:05.109 --> 00:04:08.729
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's a point that we've made before and we'll go into some detail again here.

00:04:09.289 --> 00:04:19.829
<v SPEAKER_2>But when this sort of thing is done, especially when it's done in the church by people who are masquerading as Christians, it's the sort of hypocrisy that can very easily destroy people's faith.

00:04:20.589 --> 00:04:29.109
<v SPEAKER_2>And so I've said before, I'm glad that it happened to me and not someone else because there are men who would have killed themselves after what happened to me.

00:04:29.389 --> 00:04:30.989
<v SPEAKER_2>To me, it was a completely indifferent matter.

00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:38.889
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, like when O'Keefe says that stuff, like he's being a drama queen, I'm simply saying to you, this stuff is happening in the church.

00:04:38.909 --> 00:04:39.449
<v SPEAKER_2>Forget me.

00:04:39.469 --> 00:04:40.249
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't care about me.

00:04:40.549 --> 00:04:41.669
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't want you to either.

00:04:42.029 --> 00:04:48.169
<v SPEAKER_2>I want you to care about the church and I want you to care about Christian conduct because these things will happen in your presence as well.

00:04:48.769 --> 00:05:04.729
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as we lay out the case today for what slander and bearing false witness actually means, we go through all the places in script, not all, we go through some of the places in scripture where it is outlined, you're going to realize that you have participated in evil slander.

00:05:05.189 --> 00:05:06.009
<v SPEAKER_2>I certainly have.

00:05:06.049 --> 00:05:10.169
<v SPEAKER_2>It's an easy thing to do and you don't necessarily realize it when you're doing it.

00:05:10.649 --> 00:05:14.669
<v SPEAKER_2>That's something that sets it apart from some of the other sins we're going to get into in just a minute.

00:05:15.369 --> 00:05:22.409
<v SPEAKER_2>But just to get the outset, when we're talking about ourselves in this specific context, it's solely because it's happening in the church.

00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:29.569
<v SPEAKER_2>And in the case of Stone Choir, the podcast, what was done to me and has been done to Corey was because of the show that you're listening to.

00:05:29.589 --> 00:05:33.769
<v SPEAKER_2>It wasn't because we said mean things on the internet at some other time.

00:05:34.029 --> 00:05:37.609
<v SPEAKER_2>It's because when people listen to Stone Choir, they start going to church.

00:05:38.409 --> 00:05:47.469
<v SPEAKER_2>Every week now, a couple people are joining churches, either new churches, better churches, or they're joining churches for the first times in their adult lives because they've been listening.

00:05:47.929 --> 00:05:49.409
<v SPEAKER_2>That is not a credit to us.

00:05:49.429 --> 00:05:56.469
<v SPEAKER_2>That is a credit to God's work through what we're doing, which is the underlying impetus for when Christians are slandered.

00:05:57.029 --> 00:06:02.629
<v SPEAKER_2>At the end, we're going to get into how Scripture says, if you're a Christian, you're going to be slandered.

00:06:02.889 --> 00:06:06.849
<v SPEAKER_2>The world is going to hate you because you are in opposition to the world.

00:06:06.989 --> 00:06:09.649
<v SPEAKER_2>So this is a matter of spiritual war.

00:06:09.729 --> 00:06:11.369
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not just gossip.

00:06:11.669 --> 00:06:12.729
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not just name calling.

00:06:12.749 --> 00:06:16.569
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not just, you know, sort of negative social behavior.

00:06:17.009 --> 00:06:21.809
<v SPEAKER_2>This is much more fundamentally about the spiritual war that we are all subjected to.

00:06:22.309 --> 00:06:24.589
<v SPEAKER_2>And that's the only reason that we've ever mentioned it.

00:06:24.909 --> 00:06:27.989
<v SPEAKER_2>If it were only somebody being mean to me, you wouldn't care.

00:06:28.009 --> 00:06:29.349
<v SPEAKER_2>I wouldn't ask you to care.

00:06:29.649 --> 00:06:30.309
<v SPEAKER_2>I don't care.

00:06:30.829 --> 00:06:33.829
<v SPEAKER_2>I care that evil is happening and the church is being done to Christians.

00:06:34.109 --> 00:06:36.589
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm glad it was me and not someone else because I could take it.

00:06:37.049 --> 00:06:50.629
<v SPEAKER_2>That's one of the things I think we really need to appreciate is that when we are unwitting participants in slanderous behavior, like I said, it's very easy, but the damage is in some cases incalculable.

00:06:51.009 --> 00:06:57.349
<v SPEAKER_2>And you may never know, which is particularly terrifying for Christians, because how do you repent of something if you don't even know you did it?

00:06:57.909 --> 00:07:01.709
<v SPEAKER_2>Well, the best way is not to have committed the thing in the first place.

00:07:02.009 --> 00:07:06.229
<v SPEAKER_2>So as we go through the details today, just keep in mind that you're guilty of doing this.

00:07:06.249 --> 00:07:09.229
<v SPEAKER_2>I know because I am, because I've reviewed these past few years.

00:07:09.629 --> 00:07:14.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Here are some examples where I know I've definitely gone up to that line and crossed it in some cases.

00:07:16.089 --> 00:07:16.889
<v SPEAKER_2>We should all repent.

00:07:17.289 --> 00:07:19.909
<v SPEAKER_2>And we'll talk about what repentance for this actually means to.

00:07:20.769 --> 00:07:24.729
<v SPEAKER_2>We're going to first talk about the Old Testament, talk about the 8th Commandment.

00:07:24.749 --> 00:07:26.189
<v SPEAKER_2>This is Lutheran numbering.

00:07:26.729 --> 00:07:29.209
<v SPEAKER_2>Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

00:07:29.849 --> 00:07:32.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And then we'll talk about how it's treated in the New Testament.

00:07:32.549 --> 00:07:41.149
<v SPEAKER_2>And we're going to end with how it led directly to Christ's crucifixion because Jesus died on the cross because he was doxed and slandered.

00:07:41.469 --> 00:07:42.289
<v SPEAKER_2>It was lies.

00:07:42.309 --> 00:07:43.709
<v SPEAKER_2>It was false accusations.

00:07:44.049 --> 00:07:46.529
<v SPEAKER_2>It was men bearing false witness against Christ.

00:07:47.069 --> 00:07:56.929
<v SPEAKER_2>They caused him to be nailed to the cross and murdered for our sins, including all those sins that I've committed and you've committed and all the people who are doing those things to Jesus committed in his day.

00:07:57.509 --> 00:08:00.329
<v SPEAKER_2>He was nailed to the cross because of slander and lies.

00:08:00.689 --> 00:08:01.909
<v SPEAKER_2>That's how serious this is.

00:08:02.169 --> 00:08:04.469
<v SPEAKER_2>He was murdered because of slander.

00:08:05.069 --> 00:08:06.309
<v SPEAKER_2>So that's where we're going to end up.

00:08:06.789 --> 00:08:08.769
<v SPEAKER_2>I just want to lay out at the outset.

00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:12.269
<v SPEAKER_2>This is not a minor social point.

00:08:13.209 --> 00:08:17.649
<v SPEAKER_2>This is as life and death as it gets without your body being destroyed.

00:08:18.589 --> 00:08:35.329
<v SPEAKER_2>So the interesting thing when you look at the second table of the law, the second table of the 10 commandments, after the one about parents, you have you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, then you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

00:08:35.769 --> 00:08:42.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And then the last two are almost peripheral because they're specifically about coveting what your neighbor owns.

00:08:43.489 --> 00:08:49.109
<v SPEAKER_2>I want to principally focus on those four in the middle, killing, adultery, stealing and slander.

00:08:49.969 --> 00:08:52.609
<v SPEAKER_2>If you kill someone, as I said, they're dead.

00:08:52.729 --> 00:08:53.929
<v SPEAKER_2>There's no undo for that.

00:08:54.209 --> 00:08:58.009
<v SPEAKER_2>There is no possible fix for a murder.

00:08:58.349 --> 00:09:02.269
<v SPEAKER_2>You can repent if you're a murderer, but you can't raise the dead.

00:09:02.489 --> 00:09:03.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Only God can do that.

00:09:04.449 --> 00:09:07.429
<v SPEAKER_2>Adultery also is not fixable.

00:09:08.349 --> 00:09:15.509
<v SPEAKER_2>You can repent and you can forgive within the marriage, but that damage is never completely undone.

00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:19.229
<v SPEAKER_2>The breaking of the one flesh union is never...

00:09:19.929 --> 00:09:31.209
<v SPEAKER_2>Even when the two who were separated by adultery come together again as a proper union, as a proper marriage, it's a reunion because it was broken in the first place.

00:09:31.229 --> 00:09:32.549
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what adultery is.

00:09:32.869 --> 00:09:34.629
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a breaking of a godly union.

00:09:35.169 --> 00:09:42.649
<v SPEAKER_2>So you can glue it back together, but it's something that's been broken, which at least you can patch it over.

00:09:43.869 --> 00:09:45.769
<v SPEAKER_2>Stealing is very easy to fix.

00:09:46.009 --> 00:09:47.929
<v SPEAKER_2>If you steal something, you give it back.

00:09:48.569 --> 00:09:54.649
<v SPEAKER_2>And in the law, it's preserved going back to antiquity, oftentimes treble damages are involved.

00:09:55.089 --> 00:10:02.509
<v SPEAKER_2>Depending on the severity of the manner in which something is taken, maybe you have to give back three times what you stole.

00:10:03.529 --> 00:10:08.949
<v SPEAKER_2>So in that sense, restorative justice is possible in the context of The 7th Commandment about stealing.

00:10:09.349 --> 00:10:11.009
<v SPEAKER_2>Because it's just stuff.

00:10:11.829 --> 00:10:16.289
<v SPEAKER_2>But it's stuff that God takes so seriously that he will send you to hell for doing it.

00:10:17.009 --> 00:10:19.849
<v SPEAKER_2>But there's at least an actual undo button for stealing.

00:10:19.869 --> 00:10:24.869
<v SPEAKER_2>So then we come to bearing false witness, which includes slander.

00:10:26.489 --> 00:10:31.089
<v SPEAKER_2>When you rob a man of his reputation, what is the undo button for that?

00:10:31.729 --> 00:10:35.369
<v SPEAKER_2>What is the restorative justice when a man loses his good name?

00:10:36.509 --> 00:10:38.109
<v SPEAKER_2>In theory, it is possible.

00:10:38.169 --> 00:10:39.329
<v SPEAKER_2>Someone could be slandered.

00:10:39.349 --> 00:10:41.129
<v SPEAKER_2>He could have his reputation destroyed.

00:10:41.689 --> 00:10:43.309
<v SPEAKER_2>And then somehow it could be restored.

00:10:43.969 --> 00:10:45.829
<v SPEAKER_2>There may be a few examples in history.

00:10:46.009 --> 00:10:48.849
<v SPEAKER_2>I couldn't think of any, but you may have some that come to mind.

00:10:49.649 --> 00:10:54.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Where it's actually possible for someone to have a good reputation, have it destroyed and then have it fixed.

00:10:54.449 --> 00:10:55.809
<v SPEAKER_2>But it's exceedingly rare.

00:10:56.569 --> 00:11:05.289
<v SPEAKER_2>In virtually every case, when a man has his reputation diminished or destroyed by bearing false witness and slander, he'll never get it back.

00:11:05.849 --> 00:11:09.049
<v SPEAKER_2>Usually, you get thrown into that hole and you just stay in that hole forever.

00:11:09.429 --> 00:11:13.629
<v SPEAKER_2>The best you could do historically was to move somewhere else where nobody knew your name.

00:11:14.209 --> 00:11:14.709
<v SPEAKER_2>But guess what?

00:11:15.069 --> 00:11:16.669
<v SPEAKER_2>With the internet, that's not possible.

00:11:17.129 --> 00:11:30.389
<v SPEAKER_2>And so one of the key aspects of modern doxxing, when someone is accused and falsely slandered of wickedness that the world hates, which when the world hates wickedness, that usually means it's righteousness.

00:11:30.949 --> 00:11:33.169
<v SPEAKER_2>There's nothing the world hates more than God's righteousness.

00:11:33.589 --> 00:11:41.089
<v SPEAKER_2>So when you look at the things that are the most destructive to men today, it's usually things that aren't even sins, which we've covered in numerous past episodes.

00:11:41.709 --> 00:12:02.449
<v SPEAKER_2>One of the reasons that Corey and I are despised in those who are falsely claiming to be of the Church is we say that things like slavery are not sin, that feminism is sin, that things like racism are not a sin, that genocide is not a sin, that sodomy, rightly, would be executed by the state.

00:12:02.829 --> 00:12:07.329
<v SPEAKER_2>That's not something that has ever been tolerated in the history of Christendom.

00:12:08.189 --> 00:12:08.789
<v SPEAKER_2>Today we do.

00:12:09.069 --> 00:12:10.029
<v SPEAKER_2>Today we tolerate it.

00:12:10.409 --> 00:12:18.749
<v SPEAKER_2>And when a man says, you know what, this wickedness has never been permitted among Christians in history, we become the bad guys.

00:12:19.309 --> 00:12:21.469
<v SPEAKER_2>And so that is the nature of this.

00:12:21.489 --> 00:12:28.309
<v SPEAKER_2>When a man loses his reputation for doing something that's godly, the damage is still done.

00:12:28.509 --> 00:12:33.389
<v SPEAKER_2>And so no matter where you go in the world because of the internet, the name follows you.

00:12:33.669 --> 00:12:35.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And if you change your name, there's a record of that.

00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:36.169
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like there's no escape.

00:12:36.529 --> 00:12:38.529
<v SPEAKER_2>When the damage is done, it's permanent.

00:12:39.269 --> 00:12:45.189
<v SPEAKER_2>So that is a way in which it is most closely related to the 5th Commandment.

00:12:45.529 --> 00:12:46.669
<v SPEAKER_2>Thou shalt not murder.

00:12:47.469 --> 00:12:49.149
<v SPEAKER_2>Because when a man is dead, he stays dead.

00:12:49.449 --> 00:12:53.889
<v SPEAKER_2>When a man's reputation is murdered, in virtually all cases, it's going to stay murdered.

00:12:54.589 --> 00:12:55.429
<v SPEAKER_2>It may fade.

00:12:55.669 --> 00:12:57.009
<v SPEAKER_2>Maybe the slander fades.

00:12:57.309 --> 00:12:58.889
<v SPEAKER_2>But you're really never going to get it back.

00:12:59.309 --> 00:13:06.329
<v SPEAKER_2>Which is why God draws such a bright line around not going anywhere near robbing a man of his reputation.

00:13:06.549 --> 00:13:07.509
<v SPEAKER_2>It's that important.

00:13:07.609 --> 00:13:08.549
<v SPEAKER_2>Because there's no undo.

00:13:08.829 --> 00:13:11.149
<v SPEAKER_2>Just like there's no undo for murder.

00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:13.449
<v SPEAKER_2>You can't fix it once you've done it.

00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:21.689
<v SPEAKER_2>And so the only thing that we as Christians can do is stay as far away as possible from robbing a man of his reputation in the first place.

00:13:22.049 --> 00:13:24.269
<v SPEAKER_2>And there's a lot to say about how we prevent that.

00:13:25.749 --> 00:13:38.249
<v SPEAKER_1>So to start off this episode, before we get to some of the verses dealing with slander, I want to make sure that we all understand a little bit about the terms that we are using as we are using them.

00:13:39.209 --> 00:13:53.249
<v SPEAKER_1>And the reason for this is that in English, when we hear the word slander, what we generally hear is a legal term, because the legal profession, for better or worse, has managed to monopolize this particular term.

00:13:53.849 --> 00:13:55.209
<v SPEAKER_1>And that's for a number of reasons.

00:13:55.229 --> 00:13:57.629
<v SPEAKER_1>People have watched a lot of crime dramas and things like that.

00:13:57.649 --> 00:14:05.929
<v SPEAKER_1>And so slander means, to the English ear, the publication of a false statement, which is essentially the legal definition of it.

00:14:07.589 --> 00:14:12.369
<v SPEAKER_1>And you may be thinking, well, there's a difference between slander and libel, and they are both kinds of defamation, which is true.

00:14:12.389 --> 00:14:13.749
<v SPEAKER_1>That's not the point of the episode.

00:14:14.369 --> 00:14:31.149
<v SPEAKER_1>But the point I want to make about the term slander is that used in this context, in the moral context, in the context of scripture and the Christian life, it does not have the exact same scope as slander used in the secular courts.

00:14:32.009 --> 00:14:41.169
<v SPEAKER_1>So we're not necessarily just speaking about a false statement that is published, a statement that is designed to harm another person.

00:14:42.029 --> 00:14:54.629
<v SPEAKER_1>That part is more important, which is not actually as important for the civil courts, but we'll leave aside the civil courts for now because that's not, again, not the point of the episode.

00:14:56.049 --> 00:15:10.849
<v SPEAKER_1>And so to give you an idea of the difference in scope, slander, what is prohibited by all of the various injunctions in Scripture dealing with false witness and speaking ill against your neighbor, that's the key here.

00:15:12.449 --> 00:15:15.149
<v SPEAKER_1>Speaking the truth may very well be included.

00:15:16.329 --> 00:15:19.349
<v SPEAKER_1>Let me be careful about what exactly I mean by that.

00:15:20.749 --> 00:15:42.849
<v SPEAKER_1>If you know a secret about your neighbor that is scandalous, that would harm him if it were published, and you go out and become a gossip, which gossip is a related matter that is also a sin, but you go out and become a gossip, and you spread this far and wide, you are causing him reputational harm that probably cannot be undone, and you are doing it with what is ostensibly a truth.

00:15:44.309 --> 00:15:46.429
<v SPEAKER_1>That is still speaking ill of your neighbor.

00:15:46.849 --> 00:15:57.369
<v SPEAKER_1>That is still something that you as a Christian are prohibited from doing, and so in the civil courts that would not be slander, because truth is an absolute defense.

00:15:58.549 --> 00:16:01.709
<v SPEAKER_1>However, in God's court it is a different matter.

00:16:02.429 --> 00:16:08.609
<v SPEAKER_1>Just because something is true and just because you know it does not mean that you get to publish it to the world.

00:16:09.609 --> 00:16:25.769
<v SPEAKER_1>There are secrets and there are things that you may know about your neighbor, about those closest to you, that you should keep secret, that you should take to your grave with you, because you are doing it to defend your neighbor, you are doing it in order to live peaceably with those around you.

00:16:27.069 --> 00:16:35.549
<v SPEAKER_1>And so it is important to keep in mind that there is a different scope of the term slander as we will be using it, and as Scripture uses it.

00:16:35.949 --> 00:16:39.509
<v SPEAKER_1>If you look at the underlying Greek term, some of this is perhaps a little more clear.

00:16:40.749 --> 00:16:45.069
<v SPEAKER_1>I don't think we will really get into the Greek too heavily in this episode, because that's not the point.

00:16:46.289 --> 00:16:52.609
<v SPEAKER_1>The point is that you bear in mind that slander is speaking ill of your neighbor.

00:16:53.209 --> 00:17:03.309
<v SPEAKER_1>And to speak ill of your neighbor does not necessarily imply and does not necessarily entail that what you are saying about your neighbor is in fact false.

00:17:04.449 --> 00:17:15.669
<v SPEAKER_1>Rather, it is something that is said to harm your neighbor or that could harm your neighbor or perhaps will harm your neighbor, something that you should not be saying, something you should not be spreading abroad.

00:17:16.449 --> 00:17:24.949
<v SPEAKER_1>Because again, just because you know a fact does not mean that you are entitled to share it with others, does not mean that you are entitled to publish it.

00:17:26.349 --> 00:17:33.129
<v SPEAKER_1>Now, in most cases, of course, it is going to be true that Slander is false.

00:17:33.749 --> 00:17:43.489
<v SPEAKER_1>That is just even in this context of the theological context, of the scriptural context, Slander is typically going to be something that is false.

00:17:44.869 --> 00:18:01.549
<v SPEAKER_1>I just want you to bear in mind as we go through this episode that it is not necessarily false, because the scriptural range, the scriptural sense of Slander is broader than what you naturally hear when you're thinking of the civil law sense of the term.

00:18:03.209 --> 00:18:19.689
<v SPEAKER_2>So after God gives Moses the 10 commandments, which includes, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, in Deuteronomy 19, it goes into some more detail about the consequences for violating this law.

00:18:21.289 --> 00:18:29.369
<v SPEAKER_2>God says, A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed.

00:18:30.469 --> 00:18:35.349
<v SPEAKER_2>Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.

00:18:36.069 --> 00:18:46.609
<v SPEAKER_2>If a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing, then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who were in office in those days.

00:18:48.089 --> 00:18:58.109
<v SPEAKER_2>The judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother.

00:18:58.609 --> 00:19:06.869
<v SPEAKER_2>So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and the rest shall hear and fear, and shall never again commit any such evil among you.

00:19:07.269 --> 00:19:14.689
<v SPEAKER_2>Your eye shall not pity, it shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

00:19:16.489 --> 00:19:23.269
<v SPEAKER_2>In the Capitalism episode, we mentioned that this was a corollary in parts to the Law of Hammurabi.

00:19:23.869 --> 00:19:58.749
<v SPEAKER_2>And I point out in that episode, and I'll reiterate here that one of the really interesting laws of Hammurabi, in terms of an eye for an eye, which it went on extensively much more so even than the Old Testament, there is the example given that if you go to your neighbor's house because it's on fire and you're helping to put out the fire in his home, and you see something of his, some of his property that you desire, and you steal it from the burning home, if you loot, the punishment for looting is that you are to be thrown into the self-same fire.

00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:02.849
<v SPEAKER_2>In other words, you're to be executed on the spot if you steal your neighbor's stuff.

00:20:04.689 --> 00:20:23.569
<v SPEAKER_2>When God says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth here, it's consistent with that, which as we point out there, was in evidence that this notion was not in fact some archaic, barbaric, prehistoric, animalistic thing like we're told it is today.

00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:25.089
<v SPEAKER_2>It was God's law.

00:20:25.669 --> 00:20:37.609
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, this was how it was laid out for his people, and it illustrates a principle, but it does not today, as we've said in other episodes, it does not bind what the civil law should be today.

00:20:38.229 --> 00:20:44.689
<v SPEAKER_2>So when we point to this, we're not saying these are exactly what the punishments should be today.

00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:49.209
<v SPEAKER_2>However, these are certainly within the moral bounds of punishments that are acceptable.

00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:53.309
<v SPEAKER_2>The only way you can say that this is immoral is to accuse God of sin.

00:20:53.569 --> 00:20:55.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Congratulations, you're going to hell.

00:20:55.449 --> 00:21:01.229
<v SPEAKER_2>You're certainly not listening to this podcast unless you're a listener, because no Christian would say, well, that's God's evil.

00:21:02.009 --> 00:21:02.909
<v SPEAKER_2>That's not my God.

00:21:03.629 --> 00:21:05.829
<v SPEAKER_2>Many people in the church today, that is their response.

00:21:06.149 --> 00:21:11.169
<v SPEAKER_2>When they hear what God says, in some cases in the Old Testament, their response is, well, that's evil.

00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:12.569
<v SPEAKER_2>That's not my God.

00:21:13.229 --> 00:21:14.349
<v SPEAKER_2>That is a true confession.

00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:19.809
<v SPEAKER_2>Men who say that they hate this, hate God, they're going to spend eternity with the other guy.

00:21:20.629 --> 00:21:26.769
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, the obvious argument against what I have just said here is a bad argument.

00:21:26.789 --> 00:21:38.509
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a specious argument, but the cheap shot would be to quote Matthew 5, where Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, You have heard it, that it is said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

00:21:38.829 --> 00:21:42.269
<v SPEAKER_2>But I say to you, do not resist the one who is evil.

00:21:42.529 --> 00:21:46.169
<v SPEAKER_2>But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

00:21:47.769 --> 00:22:01.049
<v SPEAKER_2>What's useful in illustrating what is going on when someone quotes that sort of passage against the Old Testament is that it completely misconstrues the context of who was being addressed.

00:22:01.649 --> 00:22:03.969
<v SPEAKER_2>To whom was God speaking in Deuteronomy 19?

00:22:04.189 --> 00:22:05.389
<v SPEAKER_2>What was he establishing?

00:22:05.709 --> 00:22:07.669
<v SPEAKER_2>He was establishing civil laws.

00:22:08.149 --> 00:22:12.749
<v SPEAKER_2>He was saying, in effect, to the government, this is how the state shall govern.

00:22:13.129 --> 00:22:16.189
<v SPEAKER_2>Here are the rules, here are the laws, here are the penalties.

00:22:17.189 --> 00:22:19.569
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus is not addressing that audience.

00:22:19.869 --> 00:22:21.009
<v SPEAKER_2>To whom is he speaking?

00:22:21.469 --> 00:22:30.169
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus is talking to us as individuals and to them as individuals, saying to us, you, I, do not hold an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.909
<v SPEAKER_2>That is absolutely binding upon us, because it's not even in view of what's being said in Deuteronomy.

00:22:37.689 --> 00:22:51.269
<v SPEAKER_2>When Jesus said that, and when he says it to us, it's not said past tense, Jesus is saying that for us as individuals, we don't get to say, well, you've slandered me, you hurt me, I'm going to hurt you back.

00:22:52.149 --> 00:22:58.229
<v SPEAKER_2>Absolutely impermissible on Christian, not what we think, not what we've ever said, totally out of bounds.

00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:03.469
<v SPEAKER_2>But it doesn't overthrow what is said in Deuteronomy, which is what no one wants to pay attention to.

00:23:03.889 --> 00:23:09.509
<v SPEAKER_2>When Jesus was sitting on the mount preaching to a crowd, he was not establishing a new government.

00:23:10.029 --> 00:23:17.549
<v SPEAKER_2>He was talking, as Corey was saying earlier, about Christians are to live with and among each other, and among even our pagan neighbors.

00:23:18.669 --> 00:23:25.449
<v SPEAKER_2>When a neighbor who is a pagan or a Christian does something to you, you don't automatically seek justice yourself.

00:23:26.049 --> 00:23:27.429
<v SPEAKER_2>You don't seek retribution.

00:23:28.229 --> 00:23:29.649
<v SPEAKER_2>That is what is impermissible.

00:23:30.109 --> 00:23:32.449
<v SPEAKER_2>And you know how I can say this with absolute certainty?

00:23:32.749 --> 00:23:35.129
<v SPEAKER_2>Because I don't ignore the rest of Matthew 5.

00:23:35.389 --> 00:23:42.209
<v SPEAKER_2>If you scroll up just a couple paragraphs, Jesus says this before he says, You have heard it said, and eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

00:23:42.509 --> 00:23:47.089
<v SPEAKER_2>This is what he said first, Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.

00:23:47.429 --> 00:23:49.689
<v SPEAKER_2>I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.

00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:57.169
<v SPEAKER_2>For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:05.389
<v SPEAKER_2>Therefore, whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

00:24:05.749 --> 00:24:09.629
<v SPEAKER_2>But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

00:24:10.949 --> 00:24:21.749
<v SPEAKER_2>So, the only way that you can possibly say, well, Jesus overthrew that, is to say that Jesus was violating what he said three paragraphs previous.

00:24:22.449 --> 00:24:24.249
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus was not abolishing the law.

00:24:24.689 --> 00:24:27.569
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus was not relaxing one of the least of these commandments.

00:24:27.909 --> 00:24:33.969
<v SPEAKER_2>When you actually look at what was said in the intervening lines, it also discusses the fifth commandment, the sixth commandment.

00:24:34.389 --> 00:24:38.669
<v SPEAKER_2>It's when Jesus says, you've heard it said, you shall not murder, I tell you don't hate.

00:24:39.349 --> 00:24:39.729
<v SPEAKER_2>Why?

00:24:40.409 --> 00:24:42.709
<v SPEAKER_2>Because murder begins in the heart as hatred.

00:24:43.189 --> 00:24:46.889
<v SPEAKER_2>You've heard it said, do not commit adultery, I say unto you, do not lust.

00:24:47.209 --> 00:24:47.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Why?

00:24:47.789 --> 00:24:50.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Because all adultery begins in the heart as lust.

00:24:51.009 --> 00:24:56.389
<v SPEAKER_2>Therefore, if you wish to follow the command in the ten commandments, you begin in your heart.

00:24:57.249 --> 00:25:00.889
<v SPEAKER_2>He was making things much more strict than the Pharisees had.

00:25:01.049 --> 00:25:02.969
<v SPEAKER_2>He was doing the opposite of what we're told today.

00:25:02.989 --> 00:25:04.949
<v SPEAKER_2>Oh, Jesus was loosening everything up.

00:25:04.969 --> 00:25:05.229
<v SPEAKER_2>No.

00:25:05.609 --> 00:25:17.309
<v SPEAKER_2>He was making it very clear that every single Pharisee who said, I uphold the law fully, is a liar and is a damned fool because no man is free from murder.

00:25:17.629 --> 00:25:18.429
<v SPEAKER_2>Not in his heart.

00:25:18.809 --> 00:25:20.089
<v SPEAKER_2>No man is free from lust.

00:25:20.109 --> 00:25:26.869
<v SPEAKER_2>Not in his heart, with the incredibly rare exception of the man who is actually celibate, has zero interest whatsoever.

00:25:27.129 --> 00:25:28.829
<v SPEAKER_2>That's not anyone who's listening.

00:25:29.269 --> 00:25:30.689
<v SPEAKER_2>Certainly not anyone who's speaking.

00:25:31.149 --> 00:25:32.449
<v SPEAKER_2>These sins are our sins.

00:25:32.969 --> 00:25:45.209
<v SPEAKER_2>And when the 10th Commandments are said, you shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, don't steal, the reason that 9 and 10 are there in the 10th Commandments about coveting is that that is the root of stealing.

00:25:45.949 --> 00:25:53.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And so when we're looking at slander, it's important to keep in mind that bearing false witness and slandering are hand in hand.

00:25:53.949 --> 00:26:03.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Because when Deuteronomy 19 says, the penalty for bearing false witness is that you receive whatever punishment would come upon the guilty man.

00:26:03.229 --> 00:26:13.449
<v SPEAKER_2>If you accuse someone of something and he's found guilty of it, if you lied and it's discovered that you lied, you face the punishment for that crime that you made up that he would have faced.

00:26:13.849 --> 00:26:28.409
<v SPEAKER_2>Which means, for example, if a president of a synod goes to the FBI and accuses Cory and me of terrorism, he makes up false charges to the feds to try to get us swatted, that would cause us to be killed.

00:26:29.049 --> 00:26:35.569
<v SPEAKER_2>Under Deuteronomy 19, under God's law, the just punishment for that would be the execution of that man.

00:26:36.249 --> 00:26:43.769
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, we no longer have any godly government, and we're certainly not permitted to seek personal retribution, so what do we trust?

00:26:44.169 --> 00:26:50.949
<v SPEAKER_2>We trust that God will sort these things out in his time and in his day, and we know with certainty that they will be sorted out.

00:26:51.529 --> 00:26:57.889
<v SPEAKER_2>It would be better for men to receive the punishment in this life for their wickedness than to receive it in the next.

00:26:58.289 --> 00:27:00.349
<v SPEAKER_2>Unfortunately for them, that's not going to happen.

00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:06.909
<v SPEAKER_2>They will get away with these things until they die, and then they will not get away with them anymore because they're not repentant.

00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:12.909
<v SPEAKER_2>This stuff is life or death eternally, not only temporally.

00:27:14.149 --> 00:27:17.789
<v SPEAKER_2>So a lot of times people say, oh, they're focusing on the Old Testament.

00:27:18.109 --> 00:27:20.189
<v SPEAKER_2>We're focusing on God's Word.

00:27:21.189 --> 00:27:27.129
<v SPEAKER_2>If you subordinate the Old Testament as a lesser version of the New Testament, you're denying that God is God.

00:27:27.489 --> 00:27:29.829
<v SPEAKER_2>You're saying that there was a junior God and a senior God.

00:27:30.209 --> 00:27:36.689
<v SPEAKER_2>There was a demiurge and then there was a full-fledged deity that came with Jesus or from the same time.

00:27:37.209 --> 00:27:38.009
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not Christian.

00:27:38.229 --> 00:27:41.609
<v SPEAKER_2>That's all manner of heresy that's been dispatched in history.

00:27:42.509 --> 00:27:45.969
<v SPEAKER_2>The same God, it was Jesus who delivered Teuteronomy 19.

00:27:46.209 --> 00:27:52.969
<v SPEAKER_2>It was the same Jesus who delivered the Ten Commandments to Moses who said, I do not come to abrogate the law, but to fulfill it.

00:27:53.889 --> 00:27:55.049
<v SPEAKER_2>We have to believe that.

00:27:56.029 --> 00:28:03.529
<v SPEAKER_2>And so when we see how slander, how false witness is treated, when the penalty can be death, no, it's not always the case.

00:28:03.969 --> 00:28:08.029
<v SPEAKER_2>If the slander would cause death, then the penalty biblically would be death.

00:28:08.749 --> 00:28:10.209
<v SPEAKER_2>But there may be lesser penalties.

00:28:10.789 --> 00:28:13.009
<v SPEAKER_2>But that's just an illustration of how serious this is.

00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:14.629
<v SPEAKER_2>It's that serious.

00:28:15.069 --> 00:28:21.069
<v SPEAKER_2>If you bear false witness and you could get someone killed with it, that's the punishment.

00:28:21.969 --> 00:28:26.109
<v SPEAKER_2>As we said, we're going to wrap up with the crucifixion of Jesus, where that's precisely what happened.

00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:33.829
<v SPEAKER_2>The Pharisees bore false witness against him and he was murdered for their sins and for my sins, for your sins.

00:28:34.549 --> 00:28:35.749
<v SPEAKER_2>And thank God for it.

00:28:36.209 --> 00:28:43.969
<v SPEAKER_2>If not for their wickedness, for the wickedness of Judas who doxed Jesus with a kiss and all these other things, we would have no forgiveness of sins.

00:28:44.169 --> 00:28:48.229
<v SPEAKER_2>So God permitted that evil to occur so that he could do good for us.

00:28:48.609 --> 00:28:54.549
<v SPEAKER_2>But it doesn't change the nature of the evil that's underlying what we're dealing with here today.

00:28:55.869 --> 00:29:16.629
<v SPEAKER_1>I did say that we would not go over too much Greek in this episode, but I do want to go over four Greek verbs just briefly because these are the four most important verbs in the language of the Greek Old Testament and New Testament relating to the issue of slander and the scope of what that means.

00:29:17.569 --> 00:29:21.069
<v SPEAKER_1>The first is katalaleo, which means to speak ill of another.

00:29:21.629 --> 00:29:24.509
<v SPEAKER_1>And we have that in a number of the verses we'll be going over shortly.

00:29:25.789 --> 00:29:29.729
<v SPEAKER_1>The other is katamarpureo, which is to testify against.

00:29:29.749 --> 00:29:32.129
<v SPEAKER_1>That one does not necessarily mean to slander.

00:29:32.149 --> 00:29:34.629
<v SPEAKER_1>That one could be used of testifying against someone in court.

00:29:35.209 --> 00:29:38.229
<v SPEAKER_1>You are not slandering a person when you speak truthfully in court.

00:29:38.249 --> 00:29:39.009
<v SPEAKER_1>That is permitted.

00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:40.949
<v SPEAKER_1>We're not telling you to lie on the stand.

00:29:40.969 --> 00:29:42.169
<v SPEAKER_1>That is a different matter.

00:29:42.189 --> 00:29:49.969
<v SPEAKER_1>And as a Christian, in fact, you are required to speak truthfully in court, not least of all because you will be under oath before God.

00:29:51.489 --> 00:30:11.049
<v SPEAKER_1>But then the term that is present in the Old Testament in the Septuagint when we have, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, is pseudo martureo, which you may note that there is a similar word there as in the last Greek verb that I mentioned.

00:30:11.069 --> 00:30:14.609
<v SPEAKER_1>And that is because there's martureo, which is to witness, is to testify.

00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:19.589
<v SPEAKER_1>This is related to the word martyr because what martyr means is witness.

00:30:20.929 --> 00:30:24.509
<v SPEAKER_1>And you may recognize from English, pseudo, false.

00:30:24.889 --> 00:30:27.689
<v SPEAKER_1>So it is to bear false witness is all that verb means.

00:30:28.409 --> 00:30:34.349
<v SPEAKER_1>And the last one is blasphemeo, which is to slander, revile, defame, to blaspheme.

00:30:34.629 --> 00:30:38.229
<v SPEAKER_1>That one is very obvious since it's basically the same verb in English and in Greek.

00:30:38.769 --> 00:30:44.109
<v SPEAKER_1>So to speak irreverently or impiously would be another sense of that verb.

00:30:44.129 --> 00:30:53.829
<v SPEAKER_1>And so those are essentially the verbs that encompass the scope of the topic of slander within the scriptural context.

00:30:53.849 --> 00:30:58.089
<v SPEAKER_1>That's what we will be discussing in this episode and the verses we'll be going over shortly.

00:31:00.469 --> 00:31:08.969
<v SPEAKER_1>But I want to read a quick selection from The Large Catechism on The 8th Commandment specifically.

00:31:10.169 --> 00:31:20.469
<v SPEAKER_1>In his commentary on The 8th Commandment, Luther distinguishes essentially three different kinds of slander, three different kinds of violations of The 8th Commandment.

00:31:21.269 --> 00:31:29.509
<v SPEAKER_1>The first is to bear false witness in the public courts, which is the standard definition that will come to mind for most people when they think of this.

00:31:29.529 --> 00:31:31.729
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to speak falsely on the stand.

00:31:32.209 --> 00:31:33.529
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to be a lying witness.

00:31:34.289 --> 00:31:40.189
<v SPEAKER_1>The second is to bear false witness in spiritual matters, which is to attack true teachers.

00:31:40.689 --> 00:31:45.169
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to say that those who are teaching the truth are in fact liars.

00:31:46.389 --> 00:31:47.409
<v SPEAKER_1>That is the second kind.

00:31:47.429 --> 00:31:48.449
<v SPEAKER_1>It's in spiritual matters.

00:31:49.889 --> 00:31:51.629
<v SPEAKER_1>And then the third is lying.

00:31:51.809 --> 00:31:53.589
<v SPEAKER_1>It is bearing false witness.

00:31:53.609 --> 00:31:56.109
<v SPEAKER_1>It is more encompassing.

00:31:56.129 --> 00:31:59.629
<v SPEAKER_1>It is broader than just lying in the sense of saying something false.

00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.029
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to speak ill of another.

00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:03.909
<v SPEAKER_1>And this is the most common one.

00:32:03.929 --> 00:32:05.489
<v SPEAKER_1>This is what we see in everyday life.

00:32:05.909 --> 00:32:15.229
<v SPEAKER_1>Of course, we see plenty of the second version in today's world, since most actually true teachers of Christianity are attacked as false because they don't line up with the world religion.

00:32:15.889 --> 00:32:22.989
<v SPEAKER_1>But what we see most often is this third sense, and so I want to read what Luther says about that one just briefly.

00:32:24.109 --> 00:32:32.269
<v SPEAKER_1>In the third place, which concerns us all, this commandment forbids all sins of the tongue, by which we may injure or confront our neighbor.

00:32:32.869 --> 00:32:36.109
<v SPEAKER_1>To bear false witness is nothing else than a work of the tongue.

00:32:36.789 --> 00:32:40.789
<v SPEAKER_1>Now God prohibits whatever is done with the tongue against a fellow man.

00:32:41.569 --> 00:32:50.749
<v SPEAKER_1>This applies to false preachers with their doctrine and blasphemy, false judges and witnesses with their verdict, or outside of court by lying and speaking evil.

00:32:51.569 --> 00:33:02.269
<v SPEAKER_1>Here belongs particularly the detestable, shameful vice of speaking behind a person's back and slandering, to which the devil spurs us on, and of which much could be said.

00:33:03.029 --> 00:33:08.529
<v SPEAKER_1>For it is a common evil plague that everyone prefers hearing evil more than hearing good about his neighbor.

00:33:09.709 --> 00:33:14.749
<v SPEAKER_1>We ourselves are so bad that we cannot allow anyone to say anything bad about us.

00:33:15.569 --> 00:33:22.989
<v SPEAKER_1>Everyone would much prefer that all the world should speak of him in glowing terms, yet we cannot bear that the best is spoken about others.

00:33:23.969 --> 00:33:34.029
<v SPEAKER_1>To avoid this vice, we should note that no one is allowed publicly to judge and reprove his neighbor, even though he may see him sin, unless he has a command to judge and reprove.

00:33:34.929 --> 00:33:37.569
<v SPEAKER_1>There is a great difference between these two things.

00:33:38.169 --> 00:33:40.569
<v SPEAKER_1>Judging sin and knowing about sin.

00:33:40.949 --> 00:33:43.889
<v SPEAKER_1>You may indeed know about it, but you are not to judge it.

00:33:44.489 --> 00:33:49.509
<v SPEAKER_1>I can indeed see and hear that my neighbor sins, but I have no command to report it to others.

00:33:50.169 --> 00:33:55.969
<v SPEAKER_1>Now if I rush in, judging in passing sentence, I fall into a sin that is greater than his.

00:33:56.549 --> 00:34:05.329
<v SPEAKER_1>But if you know about it, do nothing other than turn your ears into a grave and cover it, until you are appointed to be judged and to punish by virtue of your office.

00:34:06.989 --> 00:34:12.889
<v SPEAKER_1>People are called slanderers who are not content with knowing a thing, but go on to assume jurisdiction.

00:34:13.469 --> 00:34:18.209
<v SPEAKER_1>When they know about a slight offense committed by another person, they carry it to every corner.

00:34:18.669 --> 00:34:26.729
<v SPEAKER_1>They are delighted and tickled that they can stir up another's displeasure, just as swine delight to roll themselves in the dirt and root in it with a snout.

00:34:27.489 --> 00:34:34.349
<v SPEAKER_1>This is nothing other than meddling with God's judgment in office and pronouncing sentence and punishment with the most severe verdict.

00:34:35.069 --> 00:34:43.269
<v SPEAKER_1>For no judge can punish to a higher degree, nor go farther than to say, that person is a thief, a murderer, a traitor, and so on.

00:34:43.949 --> 00:34:50.789
<v SPEAKER_1>Therefore, whoever presumes to say the same things about his neighbor, goes just as far as the emperor in all governments.

00:34:51.289 --> 00:34:56.689
<v SPEAKER_1>For although you do not wield the sword, you use your poisonous tongue to shame and hurt your neighbor.

00:34:57.489 --> 00:35:06.509
<v SPEAKER_1>God therefore would have such behavior banned, that anyone should speak evil of another person, even though that person is guilty, and the latter knows it well.

00:35:07.329 --> 00:35:11.329
<v SPEAKER_1>Much less if anyone does not know it, and has the story only from hearsay.

00:35:11.909 --> 00:35:14.929
<v SPEAKER_1>But you say, Shall I not say something if it is the truth?

00:35:15.429 --> 00:35:19.229
<v SPEAKER_1>Answer, Why do you not make your accusation to regular judges?

00:35:20.029 --> 00:35:24.109
<v SPEAKER_1>Ah, I cannot prove it, and so I might be silenced and turned away in a harsh manner.

00:35:24.689 --> 00:35:26.649
<v SPEAKER_1>Ah, indeed, do you smell the roast?

00:35:28.709 --> 00:35:34.249
<v SPEAKER_1>I will take the moment to explain the smell the roast, that is the Germanic equivalent, Do you smell a rat?

00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:44.849
<v SPEAKER_1>So when we think of slander, it is important to recognize again, this ties into what I said earlier, about the scope of what it means to slander.

00:35:45.729 --> 00:35:47.569
<v SPEAKER_1>It's not that you can't speak the truth.

00:35:48.389 --> 00:35:53.549
<v SPEAKER_1>It's that private matters must sometimes be permitted to remain private.

00:35:53.569 --> 00:35:57.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Just because you know them does not mean you're entitled to spread them abroad.

00:35:59.209 --> 00:36:01.629
<v SPEAKER_1>A great deal of this is practical.

00:36:01.649 --> 00:36:11.689
<v SPEAKER_1>Yes, there is the moral aspect, obviously, and God will severely punish the violation of this, not just because it's His commandment, but this is something that God particularly detests.

00:36:11.709 --> 00:36:16.529
<v SPEAKER_1>It is listed in several places in Scripture as something that God abhors.

00:36:16.549 --> 00:36:17.309
<v SPEAKER_1>He hates this.

00:36:18.929 --> 00:36:23.209
<v SPEAKER_1>But it is also a matter of simply living in a Christian society.

00:36:24.289 --> 00:36:32.409
<v SPEAKER_1>You cannot live with other people if everyone is constantly slandering and backbiting, which is another way you can translate some of the terms in what I just read.

00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:36.429
<v SPEAKER_1>Traduce is a great English word that we really should use more often.

00:36:37.409 --> 00:36:48.249
<v SPEAKER_1>But you cannot live in a society with other Christians if you don't let some things slide, if you don't fail to remember something.

00:36:49.589 --> 00:36:54.929
<v SPEAKER_1>This is an aspect of living in a fallen society in which we do in fact live.

00:36:56.029 --> 00:36:56.989
<v SPEAKER_1>We are not perfect.

00:36:57.369 --> 00:36:59.029
<v SPEAKER_1>Our fellow Christians are not perfect.

00:37:00.289 --> 00:37:24.129
<v SPEAKER_1>One of the ways that I have often highlighted the difference between what we can interpret here as the best construction, the Lutherans in the audience will be very familiar with that term, the difference between the appropriate application of best construction and the inappropriate expansion of it would be the difference between a politician and your neighbor who borrows a power tool of some kind.

00:37:25.749 --> 00:37:31.969
<v SPEAKER_1>A politician who goes on TV and starts making promises, you are permitted to assess those.

00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:41.909
<v SPEAKER_1>You are permitted to assess the truthfulness, the history, the reputation, the character, all of these things about that politician that is a public office, he is standing up and saying these things publicly.

00:37:42.189 --> 00:37:43.389
<v SPEAKER_1>It is a different matter.

00:37:43.569 --> 00:37:50.129
<v SPEAKER_1>He's not really your neighbor, unless you happen to be someone who lives where he literally is your neighbor, but then it's a different matter.

00:37:51.369 --> 00:38:08.709
<v SPEAKER_1>Your actual neighbor, the man who lives next door to you, if he borrows your chainsaw or whatever tool it happens to be, whichever one your neighbor borrows from you, and he doesn't return it, best construction, which you should do, is to say, he forgot.

00:38:09.289 --> 00:38:16.569
<v SPEAKER_1>Not that he kept it and he wanted to steal it or he's trying to keep your tool longer than you permitted him to do it or whatever it happens to be.

00:38:17.109 --> 00:38:17.849
<v SPEAKER_1>No, he forgot.

00:38:18.169 --> 00:38:19.469
<v SPEAKER_1>That's best construction.

00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:25.769
<v SPEAKER_1>That is what you as a Christian should do because that is how we live with our neighbors as fellow Christians.

00:38:26.389 --> 00:38:28.429
<v SPEAKER_1>That is what keeps things running, as it were.

00:38:28.769 --> 00:38:32.089
<v SPEAKER_1>That is a practical consideration, but it is also a moral consideration.

00:38:34.349 --> 00:39:01.149
<v SPEAKER_1>The overarching purpose of this episode, though, is the focus on the morality of what precisely slander is, what Christians should be doing in response to slander or not doing, as is often the case, and to some degree how society should be structured with regard to slander and the punishment of it, as Woe was just mentioning, with how doxxing should be punished, because it is, in fact, often attempted murder.

00:39:02.009 --> 00:39:10.909
<v SPEAKER_1>It is certainly murder, morally speaking, but it is, even legally speaking, it should very well be attempted murder and it should be punished appropriately.

00:39:11.989 --> 00:39:22.489
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm sure that as some of you were listening to that description from Luther's explanation of the 8th Commandment, you were probably thinking, well, isn't that what you guys are doing to pastors on the internet?

00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:25.409
<v SPEAKER_2>Isn't that what you guys do to pastors on Stone Choir?

00:39:27.109 --> 00:39:27.889
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer is no.

00:39:28.729 --> 00:39:42.429
<v SPEAKER_2>If you read on in that explanation, which we'll link in the show notes, as well as, once again, we're going to link the Marquart essay that we've mentioned numerous times in the past, dealing with theological controversies.

00:39:43.669 --> 00:39:53.789
<v SPEAKER_2>We speak publicly about men who are lying, who are slandering God, who are blaspheming God, in the name of God, in their pastoral office.

00:39:54.349 --> 00:39:57.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Everything that a pastor does is per se public theologically.

00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:02.209
<v SPEAKER_2>Pastors are not entitled to private theological opinions.

00:40:03.569 --> 00:40:09.149
<v SPEAKER_2>If these guys were just random people who didn't matter, there'd be nothing for us to say.

00:40:10.009 --> 00:40:17.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And the only times that we've engaged with men who are not pastors, they would otherwise fall under that category, is when they first attack us.

00:40:18.029 --> 00:40:25.249
<v SPEAKER_2>The one thing that I will not do is permit this sort of slander to go on inside the church unrebuked.

00:40:26.329 --> 00:40:29.789
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not a question of turning the other cheek because it's a different context.

00:40:30.529 --> 00:40:35.449
<v SPEAKER_2>As I was saying in the intro, when someone hates us, it's God that they hate.

00:40:35.889 --> 00:40:36.849
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not the word God.

00:40:37.129 --> 00:40:41.869
<v SPEAKER_2>It's that there's nothing that we're doing or saying here that is not consonant with scripture.

00:40:42.349 --> 00:40:43.809
<v SPEAKER_2>And the fruits bear that out.

00:40:44.169 --> 00:40:51.589
<v SPEAKER_2>The fruits of these podcasts bear out that we are doing God's work, or rather God is doing work through what we say.

00:40:52.129 --> 00:40:53.269
<v SPEAKER_2>That is what is hated.

00:40:53.289 --> 00:40:54.449
<v SPEAKER_2>That is what is slandered.

00:40:54.869 --> 00:41:01.669
<v SPEAKER_2>So the hatred of this, of what you're listening to, is hatred of God.

00:41:02.349 --> 00:41:09.009
<v SPEAKER_2>The pastors who do that are entirely outside of the protections of The 8th Commandment.

00:41:09.329 --> 00:41:16.869
<v SPEAKER_2>Because not only is everything that we say about them true, everything that they do in their public conduct as pastors is per se public.

00:41:17.349 --> 00:41:26.529
<v SPEAKER_2>They are, as pastors, slandering Christians in order to destroy reputations, in order to safeguard their destruction of souls.

00:41:27.169 --> 00:41:29.609
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a spiritual warfare that I was talking about earlier.

00:41:30.029 --> 00:41:34.469
<v SPEAKER_2>This is not just a clash of opinions or personalities.

00:41:34.949 --> 00:41:37.889
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not that we just have different ideas about what the Bible says.

00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:42.209
<v SPEAKER_2>There's good and there's evil, and everyone is on one side or the other.

00:41:42.709 --> 00:41:48.069
<v SPEAKER_2>And I make a lot of people uncomfortable when I use this chalk that many call strident.

00:41:48.529 --> 00:41:49.289
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not strident.

00:41:49.309 --> 00:41:50.309
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a bright line.

00:41:50.849 --> 00:41:55.929
<v SPEAKER_2>You don't find much mealy-mouth stuff coming from God in the Bible.

00:41:56.449 --> 00:42:05.729
<v SPEAKER_2>You do find God saying that he despises the lukewarm and he will spew them from his mouth, saying he would wish that you would be hot or cold.

00:42:06.629 --> 00:42:18.269
<v SPEAKER_2>It's the fence-sitters and the splitters and the consensus-seekers who don't want anyone to ever be angry, so they never say anything that could possibly condemn anyone who are actually a threat.

00:42:20.129 --> 00:42:26.709
<v SPEAKER_2>When a man stands up and said, this is good and this is evil, it draws a line and that is what terrifies these men.

00:42:26.909 --> 00:42:29.169
<v SPEAKER_2>So when we speak, it's against that sort of man.

00:42:29.609 --> 00:42:31.949
<v SPEAKER_2>It's against the demons who are operating them.

00:42:32.349 --> 00:42:36.549
<v SPEAKER_2>And we will continue to do so because The 8th Commandment is not remotely in view.

00:42:37.889 --> 00:42:46.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Just to emphasize what Woe is saying here, I will go ahead and read its one paragraph almost at the end of this section of The Large Catechism on The 8th Commandment.

00:42:46.949 --> 00:42:50.549
<v SPEAKER_1>It is about the difference between secret sins and public sins.

00:42:50.989 --> 00:43:03.009
<v SPEAKER_1>And this is the most salient point for what we do on this podcast, what others are doing on other podcasts or websites and rebuking public teachers and such.

00:43:04.069 --> 00:43:06.809
<v SPEAKER_1>This is paragraph 284 of The Large Catechism.

00:43:07.809 --> 00:43:22.589
<v SPEAKER_1>All this has been said about secret sins, but where the sin is quite public so that the judge and everybody know about it, you can without any sin shun the offender and let him go his own way, because he had brought himself into disgrace.

00:43:23.149 --> 00:43:31.269
<v SPEAKER_1>You may also publicly testify about him, for when a matter is public in the daylight, there can be no slandering or false judging or testifying.

00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:37.929
<v SPEAKER_1>It is like when we now rebuke the Pope with his doctrine, which is publicly set forth in books and proclaimed in all the world.

00:43:38.549 --> 00:43:44.889
<v SPEAKER_1>Where the sin is public, the rebuke also must be public, so that everyone may learn to guard against it.

00:43:46.469 --> 00:43:58.189
<v SPEAKER_1>And so what Luther is rightly noting here is that there is in fact not just a sort of exception to the general rule, because it's not an exception, it's without the scope of the rule entirely.

00:43:58.989 --> 00:44:13.329
<v SPEAKER_1>The point here is that there is a duty for Christian men, and particularly those who have been given the necessary gifts in order to teach, to rebuke false doctrine, to rebuke false teachers, because that is how you protect the sheep.

00:44:13.989 --> 00:44:21.469
<v SPEAKER_1>If false teachers and false doctrine are not rebuke, they will continue to lead sheep astray, and so they must be rebuke.

00:44:22.009 --> 00:44:25.469
<v SPEAKER_1>And doing that is not at all a violation of the 8th Commandment.

00:44:25.829 --> 00:44:27.489
<v SPEAKER_1>It has nothing to do with slander.

00:44:27.949 --> 00:44:39.289
<v SPEAKER_1>In fact, it is the opposite of slander, because as I read in that previous section from The Large Catechism, one of the worst violations of this is those who teach falsely.

00:44:40.189 --> 00:44:43.729
<v SPEAKER_1>It's bearing false witness, but it's bearing false witness against God.

00:44:44.849 --> 00:44:48.889
<v SPEAKER_1>And so, rebukeing that is in fact the opposite of slander.

00:44:50.469 --> 00:45:01.469
<v SPEAKER_2>Before we get into the rest of the scriptural citations, I just want to give two brief secular examples that illustrate that this is also just basic human wisdom.

00:45:02.009 --> 00:45:07.809
<v SPEAKER_2>When we're talking about lies and how they spread versus the truth and how it spreads, we've all seen it.

00:45:08.089 --> 00:45:09.549
<v SPEAKER_2>We know the game of telephone.

00:45:10.889 --> 00:45:12.729
<v SPEAKER_2>Here's a quote from Jonathan Swift.

00:45:14.289 --> 00:45:21.189
<v SPEAKER_2>Few lies carry the inventor's mark, and the most prostitute enemy to truth may spread a thousand without being known for the author.

00:45:21.849 --> 00:45:26.769
<v SPEAKER_2>Besides, as the vilest writer has his readers, so the greatest liar has his believers.

00:45:27.149 --> 00:45:34.769
<v SPEAKER_2>And it often happens that if a lie be believed for only an hour, it has done its work, and there is no further occasion for it.

00:45:35.609 --> 00:45:38.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it.

00:45:38.569 --> 00:45:41.089
<v SPEAKER_2>So that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late.

00:45:41.109 --> 00:45:43.749
<v SPEAKER_2>The jest is over, and the tale is at its effect.

00:45:44.509 --> 00:45:49.889
<v SPEAKER_2>Like a man who has thought of a good repartee when the discourse has changed, or the company parted.

00:45:50.349 --> 00:45:54.769
<v SPEAKER_2>Or like a physician who has found an infallible medicine after the patient is dead.

00:45:56.569 --> 00:45:59.789
<v SPEAKER_2>And another briefer quote from Charles Spurgeon.

00:46:00.809 --> 00:46:04.969
<v SPEAKER_2>If you want truth to go around the world, you must hire an express train to pull it.

00:46:05.329 --> 00:46:07.649
<v SPEAKER_2>But if you want a lie to go around the world, it will fly.

00:46:08.009 --> 00:46:10.449
<v SPEAKER_2>It is as light as a feather, and a breath will carry it.

00:46:10.869 --> 00:46:16.429
<v SPEAKER_2>It is well said in the old proverb, a lie will go around the world while the truth is putting its boots on.

00:46:18.209 --> 00:46:22.589
<v SPEAKER_2>The latter is one I think we're all familiar with, and that's exactly how these things play out.

00:46:23.129 --> 00:46:25.289
<v SPEAKER_2>There's nothing juicier than gossip.

00:46:25.709 --> 00:46:30.209
<v SPEAKER_2>We have a natural affinity for it, as fallen sinful creatures.

00:46:32.029 --> 00:46:39.209
<v SPEAKER_2>The idea that someone did something, you thought they were this good guy, and it turns out he's not as good as you thought he was.

00:46:39.709 --> 00:46:46.709
<v SPEAKER_2>There's something that appeals to our baser nature where it just makes us light up inside, and that is pure wickedness.

00:46:46.989 --> 00:46:48.689
<v SPEAKER_2>That is absolutely evil.

00:46:49.749 --> 00:46:55.249
<v SPEAKER_2>When a Christian hears something bad about a man that he didn't know, he should be horrified.

00:46:55.569 --> 00:47:01.449
<v SPEAKER_2>He shouldn't be horrified that he's hearing for the first time that this man isn't as good as he thought he was.

00:47:02.009 --> 00:47:07.689
<v SPEAKER_2>The man who hears something slanderous about another man should be horrified that he's heard it at all.

00:47:08.389 --> 00:47:10.269
<v SPEAKER_2>Because this is the root of slander.

00:47:10.649 --> 00:47:14.789
<v SPEAKER_2>It is not simply that a man speaks and harm is done.

00:47:15.109 --> 00:47:23.609
<v SPEAKER_2>The harm is done by the hearer receiving it and not rebuking it, not defending the good name of the man who's slandered, but by receiving it.

00:47:23.629 --> 00:47:26.329
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what both of these quotes are talking about.

00:47:26.829 --> 00:47:33.929
<v SPEAKER_2>When the falsehood goes forth, when the destruction of the reputation goes forth, the damage is then done in the hearing.

00:47:34.449 --> 00:47:42.129
<v SPEAKER_2>And so the only way that you, as the hearer of slander, can be free from sin is if you immediately rebuke the person.

00:47:42.449 --> 00:47:45.309
<v SPEAKER_2>You need to say, shut your mouth, I don't want to hear another word.

00:47:45.569 --> 00:47:48.569
<v SPEAKER_2>If you have a problem with that person, you go speak to them.

00:47:48.909 --> 00:47:50.349
<v SPEAKER_2>Don't tell me another word about it.

00:47:50.509 --> 00:47:54.349
<v SPEAKER_2>And don't you tell anyone else about it either, because you are sinning against that man.

00:47:55.169 --> 00:47:57.109
<v SPEAKER_2>That is the only Christian response.

00:47:57.609 --> 00:47:58.469
<v SPEAKER_2>And I'll tell you this.

00:48:00.829 --> 00:48:17.169
<v SPEAKER_2>Stone Choir is a fascinating microcosm of this in action, because people who have it referred by you who are fans and listeners, you guys, if you just started listening without ever knowing who Corey or myself were, you just somebody, some friends said, hey, you should check this podcast out.

00:48:17.189 --> 00:48:17.769
<v SPEAKER_2>It's interesting.

00:48:18.229 --> 00:48:20.689
<v SPEAKER_2>When you listen, you're like, okay, this is interesting.

00:48:20.709 --> 00:48:21.529
<v SPEAKER_2>There's some good stuff here.

00:48:22.089 --> 00:48:23.729
<v SPEAKER_2>Whatever you like it, you dislike it.

00:48:24.129 --> 00:48:40.869
<v SPEAKER_2>But you never would come to the conclusion from listening to us, to our own words, that you would come to if you would never listen to Stone Choir, but instead you would entertain the slander that all these pastors and all these other so-called Christians pass around among themselves.

00:48:42.149 --> 00:48:56.149
<v SPEAKER_2>What we see on Twitter and elsewhere is that anyone who has heard about us by reputation before listening has a very negative opinion, whereas the people who have never heard anything and just listened are like, yeah, that's great, I like it, or it's okay.

00:48:56.369 --> 00:49:02.069
<v SPEAKER_2>You would never have a stridently hateful view of us from listening to the podcast.

00:49:02.669 --> 00:49:04.149
<v SPEAKER_2>That is the effect of slander.

00:49:04.629 --> 00:49:13.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Anyone who hears the falsehoods and the mischaracterizations and the calumny, those are the people who are going to hate us.

00:49:14.269 --> 00:49:15.189
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what slander does.

00:49:15.609 --> 00:49:19.209
<v SPEAKER_2>It robs us of a reputation in the instant that someone learns about us.

00:49:19.429 --> 00:49:24.969
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, when I say us and me and I and we, I'm not trying to make this about us.

00:49:25.309 --> 00:49:28.009
<v SPEAKER_2>It's simply a concrete example that you can all understand.

00:49:28.409 --> 00:49:32.129
<v SPEAKER_2>You have your own lives and your own circumstances, you see this stuff playing out.

00:49:32.469 --> 00:49:34.429
<v SPEAKER_2>We're not special, this isn't important.

00:49:34.709 --> 00:49:38.489
<v SPEAKER_2>It's just a concrete example in the real world of exactly how it plays out.

00:49:38.809 --> 00:49:39.929
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's very stark.

00:49:40.269 --> 00:49:42.989
<v SPEAKER_2>You'll see that there are people either love us or hate us.

00:49:43.329 --> 00:49:44.809
<v SPEAKER_2>There are not many who are lukewarm.

00:49:45.409 --> 00:49:50.849
<v SPEAKER_2>And part of the reason for that is, in one sense, is that this is a spiritual battle.

00:49:51.529 --> 00:49:58.989
<v SPEAKER_2>But I think more broadly, it's that most of the people who have never listened will never listen because they hate us, because they were told to hate us.

00:49:59.189 --> 00:50:00.209
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what Slander does.

00:50:00.669 --> 00:50:09.109
<v SPEAKER_2>Someone who has no idea who I am or who Cory is, all they know is that somebody who says he's a Christian said, those guys are evil, don't go anywhere near him.

00:50:09.129 --> 00:50:10.069
<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, fine.

00:50:11.849 --> 00:50:22.429
<v SPEAKER_2>The trick is that within the church, when we're being faithful, that would also in some cases occur, and it wouldn't be Slander.

00:50:22.989 --> 00:50:30.129
<v SPEAKER_2>And this is a case where the truth or the falsehood of the claims are necessary to judge what is happening.

00:50:30.969 --> 00:50:39.869
<v SPEAKER_2>If we were all the evil things that those people say, it would be permissible for them to warn another Christian, say, hey, don't go anywhere near that.

00:50:40.169 --> 00:50:41.229
<v SPEAKER_2>We do that all the time.

00:50:41.609 --> 00:50:47.889
<v SPEAKER_2>There are podcasts and speakers and teachers that people ask us our opinion, and we say, don't go anywhere near that.

00:50:48.189 --> 00:50:49.429
<v SPEAKER_2>Those guys are a train wreck.

00:50:49.889 --> 00:50:53.109
<v SPEAKER_2>Nothing good will come from you interacting with their content.

00:50:53.589 --> 00:50:55.249
<v SPEAKER_2>That is a Christian thing to say.

00:50:55.269 --> 00:50:56.949
<v SPEAKER_2>I want to make that explicit.

00:50:57.169 --> 00:51:00.189
<v SPEAKER_2>It is not per se sinful to say, don't go anywhere near those guys.

00:51:00.429 --> 00:51:01.089
<v SPEAKER_2>They're wicked.

00:51:01.669 --> 00:51:09.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Christians warn each other about wickedness because not everyone knows, not everyone is up to speed, not everyone is equipped to understand or to discern.

00:51:10.249 --> 00:51:14.849
<v SPEAKER_2>The problem is that when it's done in this particular case, it's falsehoods.

00:51:15.089 --> 00:51:24.629
<v SPEAKER_2>It's absolute lies that are told specifically for the purpose of making sure that people don't hear what's being said because the fruits of what's being said is salutary.

00:51:25.129 --> 00:51:26.149
<v SPEAKER_2>So that's the distinction.

00:51:26.169 --> 00:51:32.969
<v SPEAKER_2>Some of this gets complicated because it can seem like we're trying to have it both ways or we're using double standards.

00:51:33.269 --> 00:51:38.469
<v SPEAKER_2>So I want to acknowledge that if we were only dealing with Christians, we wouldn't be having these problems.

00:51:39.009 --> 00:51:45.169
<v SPEAKER_2>Inside the church, if only Christians were engaging, these problems wouldn't exist.

00:51:45.689 --> 00:51:55.709
<v SPEAKER_2>It is only because you have some who are inside the church and some who are falsely inside the church, who are masquerading, but they are not of the church who are doing these things.

00:51:56.089 --> 00:52:05.889
<v SPEAKER_2>And that's when it becomes slander, is when lies are told to destroy someone who's speaking sound doctrine and spreading it faithfully.

00:52:06.169 --> 00:52:08.109
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a threat to Satan's kingdom.

00:52:08.269 --> 00:52:19.449
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a threat to the world, which is why you will find pastors and some of these other people on social media lined up with MSNBC and the NFL and the WEF.

00:52:19.809 --> 00:52:27.589
<v SPEAKER_2>And all these other completely pagan, completely wicked organizations will have identical morality to people who say they're in the church.

00:52:28.129 --> 00:52:32.509
<v SPEAKER_2>On the other side, you'll have a few Christians mostly on social media.

00:52:34.049 --> 00:52:39.529
<v SPEAKER_2>When those battle lines are drawn like that, it is not that there's infighting in the church.

00:52:40.009 --> 00:52:45.389
<v SPEAKER_2>It's that the church is being winnowed, that the sheep are going in one direction and the goats are going in another.

00:52:45.869 --> 00:52:47.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And it looks catastrophic.

00:52:47.549 --> 00:52:49.109
<v SPEAKER_2>It looks ugly.

00:52:49.449 --> 00:52:50.309
<v SPEAKER_2>And it is ugly.

00:52:50.909 --> 00:52:56.149
<v SPEAKER_2>But the root of the ugliness is not that Christians are being torn away from the church.

00:52:56.449 --> 00:53:05.849
<v SPEAKER_2>It is that those who are not Christian are willingly and openly apostatizing in real time, which is why we did those recent episodes talking specifically about apostasy.

00:53:06.209 --> 00:53:08.189
<v SPEAKER_2>That's exactly what's happening.

00:53:08.509 --> 00:53:17.149
<v SPEAKER_2>When someone reads the Bible and says, this is hateful, this is wicked, this is not my God, and they're wearing a collar, you need to believe them.

00:53:18.169 --> 00:53:25.849
<v SPEAKER_2>And then everything that you see in the Bible that's talking about dealing with unbelievers, about those who are not brothers, is what applies to them.

00:53:26.309 --> 00:53:29.889
<v SPEAKER_2>It is not Christian conduct that you're dealing with.

00:53:30.289 --> 00:53:35.689
<v SPEAKER_2>It is un-Christian conduct among those who are outside of the faith by their actions.

00:53:36.089 --> 00:53:39.329
<v SPEAKER_2>By their words and their actions, they testify that they're not Christian.

00:53:39.589 --> 00:53:49.369
<v SPEAKER_2>And slander is one of the foremost fruits of an unbelieving heart, because slander will always lash out against God's things.

00:53:51.409 --> 00:53:58.809
<v SPEAKER_2>There will not be a case where slander, well, in the secular world and in our lives, you know, the gossip and stuff, generally it's pretty mundane.

00:53:58.989 --> 00:54:00.029
<v SPEAKER_2>It's always tearing down.

00:54:00.049 --> 00:54:01.069
<v SPEAKER_2>It's always corrosive.

00:54:01.629 --> 00:54:10.849
<v SPEAKER_2>But in the church, the slander is usually either going to be sowing hypocrisy or sowing dissent or actually trying to cut people out who are doing good work.

00:54:11.309 --> 00:54:14.689
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, that's why that distinction needs to be made very clear.

00:54:15.669 --> 00:54:23.689
<v SPEAKER_1>If you want to know exactly what God thinks about slander, all you need to do is read through the Psalter.

00:54:24.269 --> 00:54:34.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Now, there are many dozens of other places in scripture where you can find what God says about slander, what God thinks about this subject.

00:54:36.249 --> 00:54:47.689
<v SPEAKER_1>But go read Psalm 101, if you want a perfect encapsulation, in fact, in half of one verse, verse 5, of what God thinks about slander.

00:54:48.669 --> 00:54:54.469
<v SPEAKER_1>Psalm 101, 5a, whoever slanders his neighbor secretly, I will destroy.

00:54:55.709 --> 00:54:57.809
<v SPEAKER_1>That is what God thinks about slander.

00:54:58.029 --> 00:55:01.449
<v SPEAKER_1>That is what God promises he will do to those who slander.

00:55:01.889 --> 00:55:04.049
<v SPEAKER_1>And what do you think it means by secret slander?

00:55:04.109 --> 00:55:04.869
<v SPEAKER_1>That's gossip.

00:55:05.749 --> 00:55:06.889
<v SPEAKER_1>That's what's in view here.

00:55:07.349 --> 00:55:09.229
<v SPEAKER_1>Now, it's more expansive than that, certainly.

00:55:09.549 --> 00:55:10.529
<v SPEAKER_1>But this is gossip.

00:55:10.909 --> 00:55:12.529
<v SPEAKER_1>Secret slander is gossip.

00:55:13.309 --> 00:55:26.349
<v SPEAKER_1>And to make sure that the sense here is entirely clear, that word slander there is the first Greek verb I mentioned earlier, katalaleo, which means to speak ill of another.

00:55:27.649 --> 00:55:32.549
<v SPEAKER_1>So no, what is in view here is not necessarily just a false statement about another.

00:55:33.089 --> 00:55:41.909
<v SPEAKER_1>To remind you again to get that secular sense of the term from the civil courts out of your mind with regard to the theological sense of the term.

00:55:42.669 --> 00:55:44.209
<v SPEAKER_1>This is the broader sense here.

00:55:44.809 --> 00:55:49.849
<v SPEAKER_1>And God says, whoever slanders his neighbor secretly, I will destroy.

00:55:51.309 --> 00:55:57.589
<v SPEAKER_1>It would be difficult to find stronger language and a stronger promise from God about most things in Scripture.

00:55:58.529 --> 00:55:59.929
<v SPEAKER_1>This is incredibly blunt.

00:56:00.149 --> 00:56:01.489
<v SPEAKER_1>This is very straightforward.

00:56:01.509 --> 00:56:03.429
<v SPEAKER_1>You cannot possibly misinterpret this.

00:56:03.789 --> 00:56:12.529
<v SPEAKER_1>It is very clear what God is saying you cannot do, you may not do, you must not do, and what he will do if you do not obey.

00:56:14.369 --> 00:56:28.089
<v SPEAKER_1>Another good example of this would be from Proverb 6 where God says, there are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him, haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.

00:56:28.809 --> 00:56:38.929
<v SPEAKER_1>A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

00:56:40.429 --> 00:56:44.949
<v SPEAKER_1>If you look carefully at this listing, you have Slander listed three times.

00:56:45.509 --> 00:56:51.869
<v SPEAKER_1>It's not listed once in this list of things that God hates that are an abomination to him, it is listed three times.

00:56:52.269 --> 00:56:59.109
<v SPEAKER_1>You have a lying tongue, you have a false witness who breathes out lies, and you have one who sows discord among brothers.

00:56:59.429 --> 00:57:00.709
<v SPEAKER_1>Well, how do you sow discord?

00:57:00.869 --> 00:57:02.829
<v SPEAKER_1>You sow discord with gossip and slander.

00:57:04.429 --> 00:57:10.369
<v SPEAKER_1>So in a list of seven things that are an abomination to God, three of them are slander.

00:57:11.969 --> 00:57:18.229
<v SPEAKER_1>This is something that God takes extremely seriously, and it is something that we basically ignore in our culture.

00:57:18.509 --> 00:57:20.969
<v SPEAKER_1>We just accept that gossip is part of our culture now.

00:57:20.989 --> 00:57:25.069
<v SPEAKER_1>That's practically what people do as a form of socializing these days instead of anything else.

00:57:25.709 --> 00:57:31.689
<v SPEAKER_1>We can't possibly discuss politics or religion or anything that actually matters, so we'll gossip or talk about the weather.

00:57:31.709 --> 00:57:35.129
<v SPEAKER_1>Quite frankly, if you have to choose between the two, talk about the clouds.

00:57:35.149 --> 00:57:35.849
<v SPEAKER_1>It's a better option.

00:57:35.869 --> 00:57:36.909
<v SPEAKER_1>At least then you're not sinning.

00:57:39.689 --> 00:57:45.189
<v SPEAKER_1>But another great passage for this is, what does Scripture say about lies themselves?

00:57:45.869 --> 00:57:46.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Whence do they come?

00:57:48.109 --> 00:57:55.049
<v SPEAKER_1>Well, to read from John 8, If God were your father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here.

00:57:55.469 --> 00:57:58.089
<v SPEAKER_1>I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

00:57:58.729 --> 00:58:00.849
<v SPEAKER_1>Why do you not understand what I say?

00:58:01.389 --> 00:58:03.749
<v SPEAKER_1>It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

00:58:04.269 --> 00:58:08.769
<v SPEAKER_1>You were of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.

00:58:09.209 --> 00:58:15.069
<v SPEAKER_1>He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

00:58:15.849 --> 00:58:21.789
<v SPEAKER_1>When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

00:58:22.309 --> 00:58:24.969
<v SPEAKER_1>But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

00:58:25.569 --> 00:58:27.589
<v SPEAKER_1>Which one of you convicts me of sin?

00:58:27.949 --> 00:58:30.929
<v SPEAKER_1>If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?

00:58:31.449 --> 00:58:33.949
<v SPEAKER_1>Whoever is of God hears the words of God.

00:58:34.449 --> 00:58:38.609
<v SPEAKER_1>The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.

00:58:41.409 --> 00:58:42.649
<v SPEAKER_1>What is Christ saying here?

00:58:43.109 --> 00:58:48.909
<v SPEAKER_1>He is saying, if you are a liar, if you are a slanderer, you are not of God.

00:58:51.049 --> 00:58:52.369
<v SPEAKER_1>These are polar opposites.

00:58:52.929 --> 00:58:54.609
<v SPEAKER_1>There is truth and there is lies.

00:58:55.569 --> 00:58:58.829
<v SPEAKER_1>And slander is going under that umbrella category of lies.

00:59:00.829 --> 00:59:04.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Christians should not be found slandering and gossiping.

00:59:04.949 --> 00:59:07.049
<v SPEAKER_1>It is not something that Christians do.

00:59:07.349 --> 00:59:10.009
<v SPEAKER_1>It is something that God speaks against in no uncertain terms.

00:59:11.409 --> 00:59:13.769
<v SPEAKER_1>Throughout scripture, in many places.

00:59:15.849 --> 00:59:18.149
<v SPEAKER_1>And here we have the words of Christ in John 8.

00:59:18.989 --> 00:59:30.069
<v SPEAKER_1>That those who are liars, those who are slanderers, are children of the father of lies, which is to say they are children of Satan, because their father is the devil and they are not of God.

00:59:31.629 --> 00:59:35.949
<v SPEAKER_2>And don't forget that Satan itself literally means accuser.

00:59:38.029 --> 00:59:43.749
<v SPEAKER_2>When Satan accuses, when Satan slanders, that's what Court is just reading about.

00:59:44.229 --> 00:59:51.749
<v SPEAKER_2>It is his native tongue to speak out, slander, whether it's true or false.

00:59:52.429 --> 00:59:55.129
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, there are some cases where it's complete fabrication.

00:59:55.369 --> 00:59:56.429
<v SPEAKER_2>It's often the case.

00:59:56.809 --> 01:00:03.249
<v SPEAKER_2>And when Satan is speaking, even when there's a little bit of truth mixed in, it's overwhelmingly to deceive.

01:00:04.149 --> 01:00:08.549
<v SPEAKER_2>But much of the time, the accusation itself is completely false.

01:00:09.229 --> 01:00:12.609
<v SPEAKER_2>When you slander someone, you are being satanic.

01:00:13.849 --> 01:00:14.729
<v SPEAKER_2>Don't forget that.

01:00:15.449 --> 01:00:19.589
<v SPEAKER_2>When you entertain slander against someone, you are being satanic.

01:00:19.909 --> 01:00:23.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Because you hear the voice of Satan, and you understand it fluently.

01:00:24.209 --> 01:00:27.089
<v SPEAKER_2>You're fluent in the language of the accuser.

01:00:27.669 --> 01:00:28.729
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a bad thing.

01:00:29.569 --> 01:00:30.989
<v SPEAKER_2>Christians should know better.

01:00:31.829 --> 01:00:37.509
<v SPEAKER_2>And frankly, it's just been bred out of us at this point to not even recognize when it's being done.

01:00:38.289 --> 01:00:53.909
<v SPEAKER_2>I hear stories all the time from within the church where it is so routine for pastors now to entertain slander against Christians that it would never occur to any of them to defend the good name of a Christian man.

01:00:54.969 --> 01:00:58.049
<v SPEAKER_2>They hear it and they think, hmm, that's interesting, that's too bad.

01:00:58.529 --> 01:00:59.449
<v SPEAKER_2>They never rebuke.

01:00:59.489 --> 01:01:02.309
<v SPEAKER_2>There's never any rebuke of the man who brings them slander.

01:01:02.909 --> 01:01:04.669
<v SPEAKER_2>And these are supposed to be the shepherds.

01:01:04.689 --> 01:01:10.929
<v SPEAKER_2>These are supposed to be the men who know better, who are the leaders by both example and by word.

01:01:11.929 --> 01:01:18.229
<v SPEAKER_2>When we don't see that, we have to fix the problem ourselves, which is why we're doing an entire episode on slander.

01:01:18.729 --> 01:01:23.549
<v SPEAKER_2>Like we said at the beginning, this is rampant, and it is destructive to the church.

01:01:24.829 --> 01:01:27.369
<v SPEAKER_2>There are just a couple other proverbs I want to mention very quickly.

01:01:27.949 --> 01:01:34.909
<v SPEAKER_2>In Proverbs 10, God says, The one who conceals hatred has lying lips, and whoever utters slander is a fool.

01:01:36.169 --> 01:01:43.789
<v SPEAKER_2>In Proverbs 11, God says, With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.

01:01:44.889 --> 01:01:51.129
<v SPEAKER_2>Proverbs 16 says, A dishonest man spreads strife, and a whisperer separates close friends.

01:01:51.949 --> 01:01:59.509
<v SPEAKER_2>In Proverbs 17 says, Whoever covers an offense seeks love, but he who repeats a matter separates close friends.

01:02:00.369 --> 01:02:04.629
<v SPEAKER_2>This is consistent with the Lutheran's explanation that Corey gave earlier.

01:02:05.829 --> 01:02:10.249
<v SPEAKER_2>Sometimes you know something, and the Christian thing to do is to cover the offense.

01:02:10.669 --> 01:02:14.009
<v SPEAKER_2>To say, you know what, it didn't happen, I didn't hear, I'm gonna let it go.

01:02:14.569 --> 01:02:19.649
<v SPEAKER_2>Because it's not your place to judge, because it's not your place to escalate a situation.

01:02:20.249 --> 01:02:28.089
<v SPEAKER_2>There's some things that just, as Luther aptly wrote, let your ear become a grave for whatever it is that you heard.

01:02:29.049 --> 01:02:32.229
<v SPEAKER_2>Because when you repeat the matter, you separate close friends.

01:02:32.689 --> 01:02:36.089
<v SPEAKER_2>And the previous verse says, whisperers separate close friends.

01:02:36.829 --> 01:02:40.309
<v SPEAKER_2>This is not only social, but it's also especially inside the church.

01:02:40.789 --> 01:02:45.089
<v SPEAKER_2>When these things go and they are propagated, it inevitably tears people apart.

01:02:45.109 --> 01:02:45.689
<v SPEAKER_2>Because what do you get?

01:02:45.709 --> 01:02:46.569
<v SPEAKER_2>You get clickishness.

01:02:46.929 --> 01:02:52.829
<v SPEAKER_2>You get those who know the secret, and those who don't know the secret, and those about whom the secret is being spread.

01:02:53.949 --> 01:02:55.749
<v SPEAKER_2>That is inherently destructive.

01:02:55.769 --> 01:02:56.689
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan loves it.

01:02:57.049 --> 01:03:00.289
<v SPEAKER_2>He's on a roll as soon as he gets this stuff happening.

01:03:00.529 --> 01:03:02.589
<v SPEAKER_2>And I guarantee it's happening in all our churches.

01:03:03.009 --> 01:03:07.149
<v SPEAKER_2>Not necessarily to the same degree, but the behavior is always there because it's human nature.

01:03:07.389 --> 01:03:08.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's Satan's nature.

01:03:09.009 --> 01:03:11.449
<v SPEAKER_2>The accuser is always going to be accusing.

01:03:11.889 --> 01:03:12.929
<v SPEAKER_2>It's his go-to.

01:03:13.149 --> 01:03:14.869
<v SPEAKER_2>It's literally his name.

01:03:16.389 --> 01:03:21.069
<v SPEAKER_2>This demon, the archdemon, comes and accuses.

01:03:21.729 --> 01:03:23.009
<v SPEAKER_2>That is what slander is.

01:03:23.549 --> 01:03:26.429
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not letting something lie when it can be left alone.

01:03:26.829 --> 01:03:28.849
<v SPEAKER_2>It's accusing and accusing and accusing.

01:03:30.009 --> 01:03:38.649
<v SPEAKER_2>It's digging up past sins that are not relevant, that are forgiven, that have been absolved in the church, and saying, no, that's not actually forgiven.

01:03:39.069 --> 01:03:41.309
<v SPEAKER_2>You did this six years ago.

01:03:41.349 --> 01:03:43.829
<v SPEAKER_2>You're not forgiven because Jesus said you are.

01:03:44.189 --> 01:03:45.369
<v SPEAKER_2>The pastor said you are.

01:03:45.649 --> 01:03:47.809
<v SPEAKER_2>You confessed, but you're not forgiven.

01:03:48.349 --> 01:03:51.469
<v SPEAKER_2>I am going to bring it before the world and attach your name to it.

01:03:52.149 --> 01:03:55.389
<v SPEAKER_2>That is the essence of satanic behavior.

01:03:56.129 --> 01:04:02.489
<v SPEAKER_2>Doxing and slandering and this sort of behavior is as demonic as anything can possibly get.

01:04:03.549 --> 01:04:06.229
<v SPEAKER_2>Short of physical destruction.

01:04:06.889 --> 01:04:15.049
<v SPEAKER_2>You would have to go to the mutilation that occurs with some of the modern procedures I am going to describe in this episode.

01:04:15.729 --> 01:04:21.489
<v SPEAKER_2>There are degrees worse than slander, but it requires actual destruction of human flesh to get there.

01:04:21.489 --> 01:04:22.609
<v SPEAKER_2>That is how bad this is.

01:04:23.309 --> 01:04:27.069
<v SPEAKER_2>Again, when someone is entertaining slander, they are guilty too.

01:04:27.089 --> 01:04:35.269
<v SPEAKER_2>As I said at the beginning, if I kill you, you are dead, your family is sad, your community is upset for a time, but I am the only sinner.

01:04:35.989 --> 01:04:50.949
<v SPEAKER_2>If I instead email your pastor, and email your wife or your kids or your brother or your workplace, your boss, and make accusations against you, all those people are participants in my sin.

01:04:51.309 --> 01:04:53.849
<v SPEAKER_2>All those people are turned against you.

01:04:53.869 --> 01:05:03.589
<v SPEAKER_2>They are suddenly inflamed, their curiosity has peaked, they are riled up, they are like, oh no, is there someone inside the sheepfold here that I need to be wary of?

01:05:04.289 --> 01:05:05.129
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's all lies.

01:05:05.629 --> 01:05:07.029
<v SPEAKER_2>It's all done to destroy.

01:05:07.969 --> 01:05:17.169
<v SPEAKER_2>In that case, that slander that is thrown over the transom like that in many ways has more destructive consequences than if I had simply killed you.

01:05:17.429 --> 01:05:22.549
<v SPEAKER_2>Because if I try to kill your reputation, I necessarily have to employ everyone around you.

01:05:22.849 --> 01:05:30.789
<v SPEAKER_2>Your family, your pastor, your church, your community, your workplace, all have to be involved in the same sin, because they're the ones who destroy you.

01:05:31.209 --> 01:05:35.449
<v SPEAKER_2>The man who spreads the slander initially, all he's doing is lighting the match.

01:05:35.929 --> 01:05:41.349
<v SPEAKER_2>But the kindling is provided by the hearers, because the hearers believe it and they spread it.

01:05:42.769 --> 01:05:45.169
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a unique sin in that regard.

01:05:45.529 --> 01:05:49.549
<v SPEAKER_2>It's like yeast feeding on sugar to produce alcohol.

01:05:50.029 --> 01:05:54.169
<v SPEAKER_2>There's a reproductive aspect to slander that isn't present.

01:05:54.449 --> 01:05:55.489
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a chain reaction.

01:05:56.009 --> 01:05:58.709
<v SPEAKER_2>You have a small input, and then it percolates.

01:05:58.809 --> 01:06:07.689
<v SPEAKER_2>It spreads throughout, and you get exponential growth, because one person tells two, two tell four, four tell eight, and pretty soon everybody knows.

01:06:08.149 --> 01:06:09.169
<v SPEAKER_2>Everybody's guilty.

01:06:09.629 --> 01:06:10.549
<v SPEAKER_2>You're the target.

01:06:10.569 --> 01:06:11.349
<v SPEAKER_2>You're destroyed.

01:06:11.829 --> 01:06:13.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And where do you go from there?

01:06:14.049 --> 01:06:18.889
<v SPEAKER_2>Where's the restorative justice when lies are told about you, when slander is spread?

01:06:19.449 --> 01:06:20.369
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not possible.

01:06:20.769 --> 01:06:23.549
<v SPEAKER_2>You'll never get your good name back when someone does that.

01:06:23.869 --> 01:06:33.409
<v SPEAKER_2>And so the reason that we're talking about this today is that even though most of you are not actively spreading most slander, you certainly hear it and you sit there quietly.

01:06:33.569 --> 01:06:33.989
<v SPEAKER_2>I have.

01:06:34.309 --> 01:06:34.829
<v SPEAKER_2>It's easy.

01:06:35.449 --> 01:06:37.749
<v SPEAKER_2>It's just like you just pretend it never happened.

01:06:38.149 --> 01:06:39.629
<v SPEAKER_2>You just keep you go about your day.

01:06:39.849 --> 01:06:40.709
<v SPEAKER_2>You don't say anything.

01:06:40.729 --> 01:06:41.789
<v SPEAKER_2>You don't want to get involved.

01:06:42.369 --> 01:06:44.109
<v SPEAKER_2>That is being a slanderer.

01:06:44.529 --> 01:06:45.489
<v SPEAKER_2>You're receiving it.

01:06:45.789 --> 01:06:52.789
<v SPEAKER_2>And even if you disbelieve it by not defending the person's good name, you are also blaspheming them.

01:06:53.189 --> 01:07:05.489
<v SPEAKER_2>One of the other definitions of blasphemy is failure to speak good, to speak good slowly, to be reticent, to defend a reputation for a man who has a good reputation.

01:07:06.209 --> 01:07:08.649
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, this is about secret sins.

01:07:09.029 --> 01:07:13.429
<v SPEAKER_2>This is about things that, whether they're true or they're false, you shouldn't be hearing about it.

01:07:14.009 --> 01:07:22.429
<v SPEAKER_2>So when you hear about it and you don't respond in anger, in righteous anger and say, you need to shut your mouth, don't say that to me or anyone else.

01:07:22.669 --> 01:07:23.949
<v SPEAKER_2>That's the Christian response.

01:07:24.729 --> 01:07:33.789
<v SPEAKER_2>If it became socially intolerable for us to spread slander, this problem wouldn't go away because Satan's never going to give up.

01:07:34.209 --> 01:07:36.349
<v SPEAKER_2>But it would certainly be tamped down.

01:07:36.689 --> 01:07:37.889
<v SPEAKER_2>It wouldn't be so common.

01:07:37.909 --> 01:07:43.429
<v SPEAKER_2>It used to be that gossip was perceived as the vocation of women.

01:07:44.069 --> 01:07:45.449
<v SPEAKER_2>You have sewing circles.

01:07:45.949 --> 01:07:52.909
<v SPEAKER_2>It was the stereotype, correctly, that when a bunch of ladies get together, invariably, they're going to start gossiping about social stuff.

01:07:53.069 --> 01:08:01.409
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, gossip is kind of a loaded word because, you know, when you're discussing community events or family events or whatever, much of that's permissible.

01:08:01.589 --> 01:08:02.969
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a society.

01:08:03.589 --> 01:08:09.289
<v SPEAKER_2>When it turns negative, when it turns destructive to reputation, that's when the gossip turns into slander.

01:08:09.669 --> 01:08:13.329
<v SPEAKER_2>Because you're not just talking about events that are okay to talk about.

01:08:13.809 --> 01:08:22.149
<v SPEAKER_2>You're talking about events that could potentially shape the course of someone's life simply because you heard something and you repeated it.

01:08:22.869 --> 01:08:28.869
<v SPEAKER_2>Even if you didn't do anything else, you heard and you tolerated and you repeated, that's all it takes.

01:08:29.129 --> 01:08:30.509
<v SPEAKER_2>That's the chain reaction.

01:08:31.109 --> 01:08:38.549
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, unique among all sins is how easy it is to participate in and how hard it is to undo the damage once it's done.

01:08:39.569 --> 01:08:42.909
<v SPEAKER_2>And God warns us that in the church, we're going to see this.

01:08:43.589 --> 01:08:46.869
<v SPEAKER_2>If someone is being slandered for the sake of Christ, well, guess what?

01:08:47.129 --> 01:08:50.389
<v SPEAKER_2>That was a prophecy that God promised to Christians.

01:08:51.649 --> 01:08:57.749
<v SPEAKER_2>In the Beatitudes, Jesus said, Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

01:08:58.089 --> 01:09:05.329
<v SPEAKER_2>Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

01:09:05.709 --> 01:09:12.289
<v SPEAKER_2>Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who went before you.

01:09:13.709 --> 01:09:14.309
<v SPEAKER_2>Think about that.

01:09:14.329 --> 01:09:24.309
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus is talking to us, and He's saying that we are walking in the footsteps of the prophets, of Moses and Elijah and Jeremiah and Isaiah.

01:09:25.609 --> 01:09:26.669
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a big deal.

01:09:27.089 --> 01:09:30.069
<v SPEAKER_2>And that's not a big deal in the sense of, Oh, wow, aren't we great?

01:09:30.609 --> 01:09:33.069
<v SPEAKER_2>It's that those guys, by and large, suffered.

01:09:33.369 --> 01:09:34.369
<v SPEAKER_2>They had misery.

01:09:34.749 --> 01:09:36.529
<v SPEAKER_2>They constantly had headaches.

01:09:36.989 --> 01:09:40.309
<v SPEAKER_2>They were constantly accused and hated and persecuted.

01:09:40.809 --> 01:09:47.109
<v SPEAKER_2>When someone is a prophet, it's virtually guaranteed that they're going to have an absolutely miserable life and people are going to try to kill them.

01:09:47.129 --> 01:09:49.149
<v SPEAKER_2>And eventually, sometimes they succeed.

01:09:50.129 --> 01:09:52.629
<v SPEAKER_2>It's never rewarding in this life.

01:09:53.169 --> 01:10:06.029
<v SPEAKER_2>So when Jesus says to rejoice and be glad when you are hated and reviled for my sake, He's saying that you're going to be like those prophets who also bore my name and said what I told them to say for my sake.

01:10:06.649 --> 01:10:08.109
<v SPEAKER_2>It's how God works in the world.

01:10:08.349 --> 01:10:13.829
<v SPEAKER_2>He sends people with His word, and those who speak it faithfully are going to be reviled by the world.

01:10:14.309 --> 01:10:16.009
<v SPEAKER_2>And the world includes the church.

01:10:16.509 --> 01:10:17.269
<v SPEAKER_2>Today it does.

01:10:17.749 --> 01:10:18.349
<v SPEAKER_2>It shouldn't.

01:10:19.009 --> 01:10:31.969
<v SPEAKER_2>The world and the church should not have an intersecting set of people in the sense that the true church is outside of the world insofar as we are not subject to the prince of this world.

01:10:32.269 --> 01:10:34.809
<v SPEAKER_2>We're subject to the king of the universe, of God.

01:10:35.369 --> 01:10:42.409
<v SPEAKER_2>But the prince of this world rules over the hearts and minds of all the people who want to participate in the global religion.

01:10:42.429 --> 01:10:43.409
<v SPEAKER_2>Because it's easy.

01:10:43.849 --> 01:10:46.789
<v SPEAKER_2>If you participate in the global religion, no one's going to dock you.

01:10:47.189 --> 01:10:49.449
<v SPEAKER_2>No one is going to ever give you a hard time.

01:10:49.989 --> 01:10:53.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And that's a key part of the lesson here in all this.

01:10:53.309 --> 01:11:14.609
<v SPEAKER_2>When slander, especially as it relates to big ticket stuff about spreading the word of God publicly and then being reviled, as God promises we will receive when we say what He says faithfully, Satan uses slander and especially things like doxxing as a warning to everybody else.

01:11:15.329 --> 01:11:15.709
<v SPEAKER_2>Really?

01:11:15.989 --> 01:11:19.069
<v SPEAKER_2>You think you're going to go against my religion, my global religion?

01:11:19.449 --> 01:11:23.089
<v SPEAKER_2>You think you're going to say what God says in this environment?

01:11:23.489 --> 01:11:26.409
<v SPEAKER_2>You're going to say what the Bible says in this economy?

01:11:26.669 --> 01:11:27.269
<v SPEAKER_2>Watch this.

01:11:27.709 --> 01:11:28.869
<v SPEAKER_2>You are now unemployable.

01:11:29.229 --> 01:11:30.509
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a lesson to everyone.

01:11:30.949 --> 01:11:36.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And there are many who are listening who are not in position to say the things that we're saying, which is why we're here doing it.

01:11:36.949 --> 01:11:43.529
<v SPEAKER_2>We are happy to take the arrows to spread the word so that more men can have confident faith.

01:11:43.949 --> 01:11:48.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And eventually we'll get to the point where the slander against Christianity won't matter.

01:11:49.189 --> 01:11:50.509
<v SPEAKER_2>That's entirely feasible.

01:11:50.809 --> 01:12:00.809
<v SPEAKER_2>If we became a Christian nation again, men who were slandered for the sake of Christ would have their reputations restored because Deuteronomy 19 would be followed.

01:12:01.349 --> 01:12:06.249
<v SPEAKER_2>And when someone came and falsely accused a Christian, the just prince would deal with them.

01:12:06.689 --> 01:12:10.749
<v SPEAKER_2>As an example to others, go back and read that passage in Deuteronomy 19.

01:12:11.089 --> 01:12:18.289
<v SPEAKER_2>God is very clear that when He commands that crimes be punished, it is a lesson to others.

01:12:18.789 --> 01:12:24.029
<v SPEAKER_2>Because some people don't just respond with their hearts and say, okay, well, Jesus said, don't do this, so I'm not going to do it.

01:12:24.409 --> 01:12:26.549
<v SPEAKER_2>But they will respond to the hangman.

01:12:27.129 --> 01:12:31.729
<v SPEAKER_2>They'll respond when they see that someone paid with his life for wickedness.

01:12:32.269 --> 01:12:33.449
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what makes them nervous.

01:12:33.909 --> 01:12:39.789
<v SPEAKER_2>And the fact that Cory and I will talk like this has them terrified because they know that it would stop their wickedness.

01:12:39.949 --> 01:12:40.909
<v SPEAKER_2>When nothing else will.

01:12:41.189 --> 01:12:44.909
<v SPEAKER_2>There are certain men who will be evil until they draw their last breath.

01:12:45.169 --> 01:12:49.069
<v SPEAKER_2>They have devoted their lives to serving the demons that inhabit them.

01:12:49.869 --> 01:12:51.289
<v SPEAKER_2>They're not going to stop being evil.

01:12:51.889 --> 01:12:56.529
<v SPEAKER_2>And so it's okay for us as Christians to know that and to say that.

01:12:56.729 --> 01:13:01.589
<v SPEAKER_2>When we encounter them, to point to them and say, that's the adversary, that's the accuser right there.

01:13:02.449 --> 01:13:17.789
<v SPEAKER_1>Since I've already read a couple selections from The Large Catechism on The 8th Commandment, I may as well go ahead and read the one about that second variety of violation of The 8th Commandment that I listed earlier.

01:13:17.809 --> 01:13:19.729
<v SPEAKER_1>This is the spiritual one.

01:13:19.749 --> 01:13:27.609
<v SPEAKER_1>So next, this commandment extends very much further if we are to apply it to spiritual jurisdiction or administration.

01:13:28.289 --> 01:13:32.269
<v SPEAKER_1>Here it is a common occurrence that everyone bears false witness against his neighbor.

01:13:32.929 --> 01:13:44.449
<v SPEAKER_1>For wherever there are godly preachers and Christians, they must bear the sentence before the world that calls them heretics, apostates, and indeed, instigators and desperately wicked unbelievers.

01:13:45.089 --> 01:13:55.489
<v SPEAKER_1>Besides, God's word must suffer in the most shameful and hateful manner, being persecuted, blasphemed, contradicted, perverted, and falsely quoted and interpreted.

01:13:55.969 --> 01:13:56.909
<v SPEAKER_1>But let this go.

01:13:57.369 --> 01:14:05.169
<v SPEAKER_1>For this is the way of the blind world, which condemns and persecutes the truth in God's children, and yet considers it no sin.

01:14:06.909 --> 01:14:10.029
<v SPEAKER_1>This is, of course, exactly what we see happening in the world today.

01:14:11.609 --> 01:14:15.429
<v SPEAKER_1>Satan is not content simply to lead people astray.

01:14:15.449 --> 01:14:21.369
<v SPEAKER_1>His goal is to destroy, to pervert everything that is good and beautiful and true.

01:14:22.129 --> 01:14:24.569
<v SPEAKER_1>And that is, of course, why he will twist God's word.

01:14:24.929 --> 01:14:38.509
<v SPEAKER_1>Again, as we have mentioned previously and as you have undoubtedly read in Scripture, heard in sermons, when Satan comes to Christ to attempt to tempt him in the desert, he does it by twisting God's word.

01:14:40.829 --> 01:14:46.769
<v SPEAKER_1>There is no good thing that Satan will not attempt to destroy, to pervert, to use toward his ends.

01:14:47.489 --> 01:14:49.969
<v SPEAKER_1>And Slander is one of his best methods.

01:14:50.309 --> 01:14:53.589
<v SPEAKER_1>He is the father of lies because lying is effective.

01:14:53.829 --> 01:14:55.009
<v SPEAKER_1>Slander is effective.

01:14:55.429 --> 01:15:01.529
<v SPEAKER_1>And as Woe mentioned, Slander is one of those things that it is destructive in the speaking of the thing.

01:15:05.769 --> 01:15:13.029
<v SPEAKER_1>And at risk of belaboring the point, although I would say not really so, because God felt it necessary to go over it in this much depth.

01:15:15.589 --> 01:15:18.749
<v SPEAKER_1>As an aside, I would recommend that you go and read all of Proverbs.

01:15:19.289 --> 01:15:21.289
<v SPEAKER_1>It will take you maybe two hours.

01:15:21.669 --> 01:15:25.189
<v SPEAKER_1>That can be the reading assignment for this week since we have taken to giving reading assignments.

01:15:25.909 --> 01:15:28.589
<v SPEAKER_1>But to return to Proverbs 17 for a minute.

01:15:29.929 --> 01:15:36.949
<v SPEAKER_1>Verse 4, An evildoer listens to wicked lips, and a liar gives ear to a mischievous tongue.

01:15:38.789 --> 01:15:40.949
<v SPEAKER_1>Think about what that verse is saying for a minute.

01:15:43.089 --> 01:15:50.169
<v SPEAKER_1>That verse is, yes, of course, condemning slander, because that would be the mischievous tongue or the wicked lips.

01:15:50.549 --> 01:15:53.549
<v SPEAKER_1>Those are slanderers, descriptions of a slanderer.

01:15:54.529 --> 01:16:02.289
<v SPEAKER_1>But it says an evildoer listens to a slanderer, and the liar gives ear to a mischievous tongue.

01:16:03.949 --> 01:16:09.889
<v SPEAKER_1>The person who listens to a slanderer and does not rebuke him becomes himself a sinner.

01:16:09.909 --> 01:16:13.349
<v SPEAKER_1>He participates in the evil of that slanderer.

01:16:15.229 --> 01:16:21.869
<v SPEAKER_1>Part of the reason for that is, as we have said already, the slanderer is harmful in the speaking of it.

01:16:23.169 --> 01:16:24.289
<v SPEAKER_1>That is part of the harm.

01:16:25.189 --> 01:16:35.549
<v SPEAKER_1>Once you have heard that thing about your neighbor that you should not have heard, that that other man should not have spoken, the harm to your neighbor has increased because now you know that.

01:16:36.589 --> 01:16:48.249
<v SPEAKER_1>Perhaps you'll forget it over time, but for a period of time, you know this thing, whether it's true or false, you know this accusation, this slander against your neighbor that you should never have heard.

01:16:48.889 --> 01:17:01.649
<v SPEAKER_1>And so it is incumbent on you as a Christian to rebuke those wicked lips and that mischievous tongue because otherwise you become the evildoer who listened and you become the liar who gave an ear to a slanderer.

01:17:03.309 --> 01:17:04.849
<v SPEAKER_1>And this is throughout Proverbs.

01:17:05.449 --> 01:17:08.469
<v SPEAKER_1>Woe went over a number of them, but another one, Proverbs 19.

01:17:08.909 --> 01:17:13.829
<v SPEAKER_1>A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

01:17:14.569 --> 01:17:16.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Proverbs 25, 18-19.

01:17:17.269 --> 01:17:22.649
<v SPEAKER_1>A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is like a war club or a sword or a sharp arrow.

01:17:23.169 --> 01:17:28.389
<v SPEAKER_1>Trusting in a treacherous man in time of trouble is like a bad tooth or a foot that slips.

01:17:29.849 --> 01:17:39.409
<v SPEAKER_1>This is all throughout Scripture, and it is something that Christians today are simply not addressing, because it has become ingrained in our culture.

01:17:39.809 --> 01:17:43.589
<v SPEAKER_1>It has become practically one of the pastimes of our culture.

01:17:44.729 --> 01:17:49.729
<v SPEAKER_1>People go out and they gossip in the negative sense of slander about their neighbors.

01:17:50.949 --> 01:18:03.129
<v SPEAKER_1>People hear slander and never rebuke anyone for it, as Woe said, pastors hear slander and do not rebuke the men who do so, and pastors certainly should know better, because Scripture is incredibly clear about this.

01:18:03.649 --> 01:18:06.929
<v SPEAKER_1>It is not just a matter of not slandering your neighbor.

01:18:07.889 --> 01:18:24.089
<v SPEAKER_1>And we could also get into the inverse of what it means not to bear false witness, because the commandments, in short, not only prohibit bad behavior, but in the prohibition of bad behavior, give you opportunity for good works.

01:18:24.989 --> 01:18:27.649
<v SPEAKER_1>So, in essence, to do the opposite of the thing that is prohibited.

01:18:28.829 --> 01:18:33.349
<v SPEAKER_1>And so, not to murder also entails, as good works, to aid your neighbor.

01:18:33.869 --> 01:18:37.229
<v SPEAKER_1>Not to bear false witness also entails to speak well of your neighbor.

01:18:39.589 --> 01:18:45.269
<v SPEAKER_1>But God is very clear that the scope of this is not just not to slander your neighbor.

01:18:45.569 --> 01:18:47.269
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to rebuke those who slander.

01:18:47.609 --> 01:18:49.709
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to attempt not to hear these things.

01:18:50.109 --> 01:19:02.609
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to set up your society in such a way that those who would engage in slander are punished, so that this cancer does not spread throughout your society and destroy men and ultimately your society itself.

01:19:04.589 --> 01:19:14.269
<v SPEAKER_1>Because where everyone is a slanderer or where no one rebukes the slanderer and so he is free to spread his malice throughout society, there can be no Christian culture.

01:19:15.509 --> 01:19:23.149
<v SPEAKER_1>And you cannot live with your neighbor as a Christian neighbor, because it becomes every man against every other man and every man out for himself.

01:19:24.029 --> 01:19:25.909
<v SPEAKER_1>And that's not a society, that's a war.

01:19:27.709 --> 01:19:31.829
<v SPEAKER_1>That is the result, that is the level of seriousness of this issue.

01:19:33.249 --> 01:19:47.109
<v SPEAKER_1>This is something that we should be addressing in our daily lives and practically daily, because we are exposed to slander, and I would hope that many of the listeners are not engaging in it, at least not actively as it were, but we are exposed to it daily.

01:19:48.669 --> 01:19:54.769
<v SPEAKER_1>And it is incumbent on us, lest we become that evildoer who listens, to rebuke those who slander.

01:19:56.409 --> 01:19:57.629
<v SPEAKER_1>That is our Christian duty.

01:19:59.169 --> 01:20:06.549
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus gives us context for all this in John 16 when he says, I have said all these things to keep you from falling away.

01:20:07.049 --> 01:20:08.929
<v SPEAKER_2>They will put you out of the synagogues.

01:20:09.229 --> 01:20:14.409
<v SPEAKER_2>Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.

01:20:15.049 --> 01:20:18.249
<v SPEAKER_2>And they will do these things because they have not known the Father nor me.

01:20:18.709 --> 01:20:23.769
<v SPEAKER_2>But I have said these things to you that when their hour comes, you may remember what I told them to you.

01:20:25.409 --> 01:20:34.789
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, obviously, this was being spoken as Jesus was alive bodily before his crucifixion to the disciples.

01:20:35.869 --> 01:20:39.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And it was certainly true up through the end of the Second Temple.

01:20:40.329 --> 01:20:41.889
<v SPEAKER_2>But it is equally true today.

01:20:42.329 --> 01:20:45.929
<v SPEAKER_2>These words that were spoken among them also apply to us.

01:20:46.489 --> 01:20:47.449
<v SPEAKER_2>And we should remember that.

01:20:47.749 --> 01:20:51.889
<v SPEAKER_2>We should remember that when bad things happen, not to fall away.

01:20:52.909 --> 01:20:56.469
<v SPEAKER_2>That's one of the key things we try to get across in so many episodes.

01:20:56.889 --> 01:20:57.889
<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, things are bad.

01:20:57.909 --> 01:20:58.969
<v SPEAKER_2>That's good news.

01:20:59.429 --> 01:21:02.669
<v SPEAKER_2>That means that you understand that they're bad.

01:21:03.089 --> 01:21:11.489
<v SPEAKER_2>It means you understand that the moral war that's being waged in the world actually has a top and a bottom.

01:21:11.509 --> 01:21:16.669
<v SPEAKER_2>It has a God and it has an anti-God, an antichrist who are waging war.

01:21:17.049 --> 01:21:18.489
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, they're not equals.

01:21:19.229 --> 01:21:19.929
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a joke.

01:21:20.629 --> 01:21:24.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan rages futilely, but he rages nevertheless.

01:21:24.709 --> 01:21:28.869
<v SPEAKER_2>And while we are subject to his whims for a time, we suffer.

01:21:29.329 --> 01:21:33.349
<v SPEAKER_2>And God warns us about it so that we're not going to be knocked out of the park.

01:21:34.949 --> 01:21:42.489
<v SPEAKER_2>If these things were happening and God hadn't said anything, it would be harder to be doxed and slandered and hated and driven from churches.

01:21:42.509 --> 01:21:50.589
<v SPEAKER_2>It would be a little more disconcerting if God had not described that these are the very things that will happen if you're faithful to me.

01:21:53.229 --> 01:22:04.649
<v SPEAKER_2>In Matthew 15, Jesus says to the Pharisees, You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said, This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

01:22:05.029 --> 01:22:09.089
<v SPEAKER_2>In vain do they worship me, teaching his doctrines the commandments of men.

01:22:11.249 --> 01:22:19.789
<v SPEAKER_2>And he called the people to him and said to them, Hear and understand, it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person.

01:22:20.229 --> 01:22:25.189
<v SPEAKER_2>Then the disciples came to him and said, Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?

01:22:26.549 --> 01:22:34.709
<v SPEAKER_2>Sorry, I'm laughing, but just the idea that the Pharisees being offended is cause for concern really causes my ears to burn.

01:22:36.489 --> 01:22:41.029
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus answered, Every plant that my heavenly father has not planted will be rooted up.

01:22:41.369 --> 01:22:46.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Let them alone, they are blind guides, and if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.

01:22:46.969 --> 01:22:49.509
<v SPEAKER_2>But Peter said to him, Explain the parable to us.

01:22:49.829 --> 01:22:52.929
<v SPEAKER_2>And he said, Are you also still without understanding?

01:22:53.189 --> 01:22:57.689
<v SPEAKER_2>Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?

01:22:58.769 --> 01:23:02.509
<v SPEAKER_2>Whatever comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.

01:23:03.129 --> 01:23:10.209
<v SPEAKER_2>For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

01:23:10.629 --> 01:23:12.249
<v SPEAKER_2>These are what defile a person.

01:23:12.609 --> 01:23:15.569
<v SPEAKER_2>But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.

01:23:17.329 --> 01:23:23.189
<v SPEAKER_2>So Jesus ends that list of damnable things with false witness and slander.

01:23:23.909 --> 01:23:35.189
<v SPEAKER_2>And incidentally, he's separating that which is both criminally negligent, because it is false in the courts and in all types of slander, whether true or false.

01:23:35.589 --> 01:23:40.209
<v SPEAKER_2>Because destroying a man's reputation falls under the Proverbs in the Psalm that we read earlier.

01:23:40.889 --> 01:23:46.349
<v SPEAKER_2>It's both things that are true and things that are false that God calls slander.

01:23:46.729 --> 01:23:53.649
<v SPEAKER_2>And he puts them in the same breath with murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.

01:23:53.749 --> 01:23:55.049
<v SPEAKER_2>That's The 10 Commandments right there.

01:23:55.249 --> 01:23:58.289
<v SPEAKER_2>He's reiterating a couple of them, but that's the law.

01:23:58.569 --> 01:23:59.949
<v SPEAKER_2>That's God's eternal will.

01:24:01.549 --> 01:24:11.689
<v SPEAKER_2>As we move ahead to 1st Timothy, we're going to get into a couple of other descriptions of later in the Church, when the established Church is being addressed, what God says.

01:24:13.409 --> 01:24:21.009
<v SPEAKER_2>Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled.

01:24:21.909 --> 01:24:26.629
<v SPEAKER_2>Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers.

01:24:27.149 --> 01:24:33.449
<v SPEAKER_2>Rather, they must serve all the better, since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved.

01:24:34.169 --> 01:24:38.709
<v SPEAKER_2>Incidentally, yet another passage that says that slavery is entirely morally illicit.

01:24:39.449 --> 01:24:42.429
<v SPEAKER_2>You can be a brother in Christ and own another human being.

01:24:43.289 --> 01:24:44.389
<v SPEAKER_2>Cope and sieve.

01:24:44.789 --> 01:24:46.289
<v SPEAKER_2>If you hate that, you hate God.

01:24:46.569 --> 01:24:47.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Did a whole episode about that.

01:24:47.949 --> 01:24:50.469
<v SPEAKER_2>You can go back and listen if that makes you burn.

01:24:51.589 --> 01:24:54.289
<v SPEAKER_2>Paul continues, Teach and urge these things.

01:24:54.469 --> 01:25:05.049
<v SPEAKER_2>If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.

01:25:05.449 --> 01:25:15.489
<v SPEAKER_2>He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people.

01:25:16.269 --> 01:25:21.869
<v SPEAKER_2>Who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

01:25:21.889 --> 01:25:29.029
<v SPEAKER_2>That's an incredibly dense passage just in terms of how much of the modern church is thrown under the bus here.

01:25:29.669 --> 01:25:31.909
<v SPEAKER_2>Everyone who condemns slavery is damned by this.

01:25:32.409 --> 01:25:39.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Everyone who spreads the prosperity gospel, who imagines that godliness is a means of gain, damned according to this.

01:25:40.229 --> 01:25:44.029
<v SPEAKER_2>And God says this is a different doctrine that does not agree with the sound words of Jesus Christ.

01:25:44.529 --> 01:25:46.189
<v SPEAKER_2>These are the words of Jesus Christ.

01:25:46.669 --> 01:25:48.129
<v SPEAKER_2>Everything else is outside of it.

01:25:48.949 --> 01:26:00.949
<v SPEAKER_2>And when slanders and evil suspicions and dissension is spread inside the church, it's to do what the accuser wants us to be doing.

01:26:01.809 --> 01:26:03.769
<v SPEAKER_2>And sometimes we fall for it.

01:26:04.329 --> 01:26:05.229
<v SPEAKER_2>We're all sinners.

01:26:05.249 --> 01:26:06.729
<v SPEAKER_2>We're all capable of these things.

01:26:06.749 --> 01:26:08.189
<v SPEAKER_2>We all sometimes participate.

01:26:08.809 --> 01:26:13.229
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, slander is an easy one because you don't know it's happening.

01:26:13.889 --> 01:26:25.069
<v SPEAKER_2>Unless you are armored against it, unless you're actually conscious of what's going on and what the consequences are about what God says about it, how much He hates it and how easy it is to do it.

01:26:25.369 --> 01:26:27.089
<v SPEAKER_2>Once you become aware of it, it's very easy.

01:26:27.349 --> 01:26:34.629
<v SPEAKER_2>Because as soon as you hear someone about another man and you're like, well, that's bad for him, that's the end of it.

01:26:35.249 --> 01:26:40.989
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, we've talked elsewhere about the separate case of public sin.

01:26:41.749 --> 01:26:48.869
<v SPEAKER_2>If some pastor is running around saying things that are evil, there is a time and a place for that to be rebuked.

01:26:49.329 --> 01:26:50.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Not everywhere and not all the time.

01:26:51.309 --> 01:26:55.729
<v SPEAKER_2>That person doesn't become the object of universal and eternal scorn.

01:26:56.289 --> 01:27:01.129
<v SPEAKER_2>But when discussions about the state of the church arise, absolutely that's part of it.

01:27:01.789 --> 01:27:03.829
<v SPEAKER_2>And other times it's not a party to it at all.

01:27:04.309 --> 01:27:08.629
<v SPEAKER_2>There are other conversations where that thing shouldn't be brought up because it's not relevant.

01:27:09.689 --> 01:27:15.969
<v SPEAKER_2>So fair game may be the wrong term, but I think that the notion is apt.

01:27:16.509 --> 01:27:21.749
<v SPEAKER_2>There's a time and a place for certain things, and there are certain things that never have a time and a place.

01:27:22.469 --> 01:27:36.849
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's only by us actually thinking about these things rigorously that we can clean up our hearts and minds, so that as in the proverb that Cory just read a minute ago, our ears don't make us liars when we hear slander.

01:27:37.189 --> 01:27:38.369
<v SPEAKER_2>That's what that passage said.

01:27:38.769 --> 01:27:42.129
<v SPEAKER_2>Your ears will make you a liar before your tongue does anything.

01:27:42.429 --> 01:27:48.349
<v SPEAKER_2>Even if your tongue never does anything, if your ears entertain slander about another, you have become a liar.

01:27:49.949 --> 01:27:55.489
<v SPEAKER_1>We have brought up a passage from James 3 a number of times in this podcast.

01:27:55.529 --> 01:28:03.649
<v SPEAKER_1>It is particularly relevant, particularly for those who would consider teaching in the Church, because it of course is about the stricter judgment.

01:28:04.769 --> 01:28:20.469
<v SPEAKER_1>But if you read on in that chapter of James, it goes on to say quite a bit about the tongue, which is to say it speaks about slander and about the possibility of destruction that is inherent in what you can do with the tongue.

01:28:20.989 --> 01:28:23.029
<v SPEAKER_1>And so I'll read now from James 3.

01:28:25.329 --> 01:28:40.889
<v SPEAKER_1>Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness, for we all stumble in many ways, and if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

01:28:41.689 --> 01:28:47.269
<v SPEAKER_1>If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well.

01:28:47.989 --> 01:28:49.169
<v SPEAKER_1>Look at the ships also.

01:28:49.649 --> 01:28:57.529
<v SPEAKER_1>Though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder, wherever the will of the pilot directs.

01:28:58.569 --> 01:29:03.069
<v SPEAKER_1>So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.

01:29:03.749 --> 01:29:07.029
<v SPEAKER_1>How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire!

01:29:07.609 --> 01:29:10.789
<v SPEAKER_1>And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness.

01:29:11.369 --> 01:29:20.129
<v SPEAKER_1>The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

01:29:20.669 --> 01:29:27.749
<v SPEAKER_1>For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind.

01:29:28.309 --> 01:29:30.829
<v SPEAKER_1>But no human being can tame the tongue.

01:29:31.349 --> 01:29:34.329
<v SPEAKER_1>It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

01:29:34.849 --> 01:29:40.469
<v SPEAKER_1>With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God.

01:29:41.069 --> 01:29:43.489
<v SPEAKER_1>From the same mouth come blessing and cursing.

01:29:44.089 --> 01:29:47.049
<v SPEAKER_1>My brothers, these things ought not to be so.

01:29:47.549 --> 01:29:52.049
<v SPEAKER_1>Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water?

01:29:52.609 --> 01:29:54.709
<v SPEAKER_1>Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives?

01:29:55.049 --> 01:29:56.929
<v SPEAKER_1>Or a grapevine produce figs?

01:29:57.669 --> 01:30:00.449
<v SPEAKER_1>Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water.

01:30:03.829 --> 01:30:11.769
<v SPEAKER_1>And so this should make you think of the words of Christ that is out of the fullness of the heart that one speaks.

01:30:13.349 --> 01:30:19.749
<v SPEAKER_1>It is evil that comes out of the mouth, not what goes into the mouth that contaminates a man, that makes a man wicked.

01:30:20.709 --> 01:30:22.029
<v SPEAKER_1>And that is what we see here.

01:30:22.149 --> 01:30:33.929
<v SPEAKER_1>If you use the tongue, if you use your ability to speak for both good and evil, that is a mixing of the things of God and the things of Satan.

01:30:34.729 --> 01:30:40.069
<v SPEAKER_1>And if you remember what the term holy means, there is no mixing of good and evil.

01:30:40.929 --> 01:30:44.289
<v SPEAKER_1>A thing that is tainted by wickedness is no longer holy.

01:30:45.749 --> 01:30:56.729
<v SPEAKER_1>We as Christians should not be engaged in slander, we should not be using the tongue both for the service of Satan to speak ill of our neighbor and for the worship of God.

01:30:59.449 --> 01:31:10.409
<v SPEAKER_1>And the tongue, as this passage from James 3 notes, the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet think of the wickedness that you can accomplish simply with speech.

01:31:11.469 --> 01:31:30.909
<v SPEAKER_1>Of course, this is a function of the nature of speech and the fact that it is communication, but the point stands, if you can master your tongue, if you can master the things that you say, the things that you permit to pass your lips, then you have in a very real way mastered your body.

01:31:31.549 --> 01:31:37.249
<v SPEAKER_1>It will be easier to master the rest of the flesh if you can manage to master the tongue.

01:31:40.049 --> 01:31:42.949
<v SPEAKER_1>We should not be giving our tongues free reign.

01:31:42.969 --> 01:31:44.909
<v SPEAKER_1>This is not a matter of indifference.

01:31:45.629 --> 01:31:51.569
<v SPEAKER_1>Really nothing with concern to the body is a matter of indifference in the strict sense of the term.

01:31:51.589 --> 01:32:00.109
<v SPEAKER_1>And yes, of course, the style of clothing you wear is, after a fashion, a matter of indifference, but not entirely because modesty does play into that.

01:32:02.429 --> 01:32:04.369
<v SPEAKER_1>But the body is not a matter of indifference.

01:32:04.409 --> 01:32:08.889
<v SPEAKER_1>As we have said before, the flesh is real.

01:32:09.909 --> 01:32:13.429
<v SPEAKER_1>You are your flesh because you are a Gestalt.

01:32:13.429 --> 01:32:15.189
<v SPEAKER_1>You are more than just a soul.

01:32:15.209 --> 01:32:19.989
<v SPEAKER_1>You're not a spirit operating a meat suit, as some are wont to say.

01:32:21.229 --> 01:32:23.749
<v SPEAKER_1>And so you must keep the body under control.

01:32:24.189 --> 01:32:32.909
<v SPEAKER_1>That, of course, means not overeating, means to be in decent shape to exercise, get some sunlight, various things like that.

01:32:32.929 --> 01:32:36.789
<v SPEAKER_1>You must keep the body under control and maintain it as is appropriate.

01:32:37.829 --> 01:32:41.809
<v SPEAKER_1>It is a gift given you from God, and you should take care of it accordingly.

01:32:42.649 --> 01:32:46.949
<v SPEAKER_1>But there is also the matter of self-control, self-control, of course, being one of the fruits of the spirit.

01:32:48.589 --> 01:32:51.649
<v SPEAKER_1>And self-control starts with the tongue.

01:32:52.349 --> 01:32:56.749
<v SPEAKER_1>It starts with the things that you permit yourself to send out into the world.

01:32:57.229 --> 01:33:01.789
<v SPEAKER_1>Now, to some degree, you will never have perfect control over your thoughts.

01:33:03.929 --> 01:33:06.269
<v SPEAKER_1>That's just a fact of living in this fallen world.

01:33:06.289 --> 01:33:08.209
<v SPEAKER_1>You will have temptations, things will arise.

01:33:08.649 --> 01:33:12.249
<v SPEAKER_1>You can suppress them, you can put them down, you can set them aside.

01:33:12.769 --> 01:33:15.589
<v SPEAKER_1>And that is part of the process of sanctification.

01:33:17.249 --> 01:33:21.829
<v SPEAKER_1>But you can most certainly preclude yourself from speaking evil of your neighbor.

01:33:22.249 --> 01:33:25.309
<v SPEAKER_1>You can stop yourself from actually speaking the slander.

01:33:25.889 --> 01:33:28.269
<v SPEAKER_1>It may be that you can't stop yourself from thinking it.

01:33:29.509 --> 01:33:30.429
<v SPEAKER_1>That is still sin.

01:33:30.789 --> 01:33:32.049
<v SPEAKER_1>You still need to repent of that.

01:33:32.649 --> 01:33:37.649
<v SPEAKER_1>One of the reasons that we pray for forgiveness for all of our sins in the Lord's Prayer.

01:33:39.589 --> 01:33:51.409
<v SPEAKER_1>But it is a bigger issue when you permit that wickedness to pass your lips, to pass out into the world, because then what you have done is in service of Satan, and you have also harmed those who hear those words.

01:33:52.469 --> 01:33:56.269
<v SPEAKER_1>And so control the tongue, bridle the tongue, keep it under control.

01:33:56.949 --> 01:33:58.669
<v SPEAKER_1>This is part of taming the flesh.

01:33:58.929 --> 01:34:00.349
<v SPEAKER_1>This is part of mortification.

01:34:00.889 --> 01:34:11.689
<v SPEAKER_1>You have to keep your body under control, because that exercise of self-control is an exercise of one of the fruits given you by God, one of the fruits of the Spirit.

01:34:12.849 --> 01:34:14.209
<v SPEAKER_1>It is part of sanctification.

01:34:14.509 --> 01:34:15.929
<v SPEAKER_1>It is part of the Christian life.

01:34:16.489 --> 01:34:24.629
<v SPEAKER_1>And again, it is how we live with our neighbors as fellow Christians, by stopping ourselves from harming our neighbor.

01:34:26.149 --> 01:34:27.369
<v SPEAKER_1>It is a difficult task.

01:34:27.649 --> 01:34:29.069
<v SPEAKER_1>Scripture is very clear about that.

01:34:29.089 --> 01:34:31.789
<v SPEAKER_1>It is a very difficult task to tame the tongue.

01:34:32.209 --> 01:34:33.649
<v SPEAKER_1>It verges on the impossible.

01:34:34.449 --> 01:34:38.749
<v SPEAKER_1>And yet it is something that we as Christians must work toward in this life.

01:34:40.569 --> 01:34:57.729
<v SPEAKER_1>If we had a society in which Slander, again, was viewed as something vile, and there were times historically when this was the case in certain societies, some societies were worse than ours when it comes to Slander, in the sense of gossip particularly, some were much better.

01:34:58.729 --> 01:35:12.809
<v SPEAKER_1>If we could get back to a position where when someone thinks about speaking Slander, he stops himself because he fears rebuke, that's actually good enough in a practical sense.

01:35:12.869 --> 01:35:32.569
<v SPEAKER_1>No morally it's not perfect, but in a practical sense, that starts to build up society, that's repositioning, rebuilding those guardrails that helps keep our neighbor Christian, that helps keep our society Christian, that helps build up this proper behavior between and among those of the faith.

01:35:33.269 --> 01:35:38.689
<v SPEAKER_1>Those of the household of faith should be helping each other to maintain Christian behavior.

01:35:39.469 --> 01:35:44.309
<v SPEAKER_1>And part of that is that moral duty to rebuke those who slander.

01:35:45.789 --> 01:36:02.469
<v SPEAKER_2>To wrap up, I want to go into the manner in which Christ was brought to his crucifixion, because we focus on the fact that the Jews were chasing him around for years trying to kill him.

01:36:03.369 --> 01:36:07.749
<v SPEAKER_2>And we focus on what happened with Pilate and the crucifixion itself.

01:36:08.749 --> 01:36:14.749
<v SPEAKER_2>But we don't necessarily pay a lot of attention to what led up to those charges.

01:36:15.509 --> 01:36:22.349
<v SPEAKER_2>And so just one of many examples of passages that say basically the same thing is from Matthew 12.

01:36:22.929 --> 01:36:26.709
<v SPEAKER_2>But the Pharisees went out and conspired against him how to destroy him.

01:36:27.789 --> 01:36:30.889
<v SPEAKER_2>This was the running theme of Jesus' entire ministry.

01:36:31.309 --> 01:36:42.589
<v SPEAKER_2>As soon as he showed up, as we mentioned I think last week, when John the Baptist was baptizing him, the Pharisees and the Sadducees were approaching and he rebuked them.

01:36:43.169 --> 01:36:44.989
<v SPEAKER_2>He said that they knew to flee.

01:36:45.029 --> 01:37:03.429
<v SPEAKER_2>That from the very moment that Jesus appeared, Satan's children appeared right at his heels, nipping at his heels, making false accusations against him, continuously trying to establish grounds by which they could stone him themselves or have him executed.

01:37:04.129 --> 01:37:10.409
<v SPEAKER_2>And he continuously had to slip away because the crowds were, in some cases, violent.

01:37:10.429 --> 01:37:11.529
<v SPEAKER_2>They were preparing to kill him.

01:37:12.489 --> 01:37:14.349
<v SPEAKER_2>This was Jesus' entire ministry.

01:37:14.389 --> 01:37:15.649
<v SPEAKER_2>This is God we're talking about.

01:37:15.669 --> 01:37:18.609
<v SPEAKER_2>Speaking the truth elicited that response.

01:37:19.569 --> 01:37:23.489
<v SPEAKER_2>I think maybe we don't take seriously what was actually going on there.

01:37:24.289 --> 01:37:34.949
<v SPEAKER_2>The same words that we read today in Scripture, when they were spoken among those people, many were filled with the immediate desire to murder him on the spot.

01:37:35.889 --> 01:37:43.709
<v SPEAKER_2>And failing, having the ability to actually murder him on the spot, at least in get away with it, because they didn't want to face any consequences temporally.

01:37:44.349 --> 01:37:45.029
<v SPEAKER_2>What did they do?

01:37:45.409 --> 01:37:49.129
<v SPEAKER_2>They slandered and they plotted continuously in secret.

01:37:50.669 --> 01:37:55.249
<v SPEAKER_2>In Luke 22, we get to the moment of Jesus' betrayal.

01:37:55.269 --> 01:38:01.269
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm going to read the beginning and the end of Luke 22, skipping a little bit, to focus on the passages about Judas.

01:38:01.869 --> 01:38:07.589
<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm also going to read for Matthew 26, the parallel passage, Luke 22.

01:38:08.469 --> 01:38:12.329
<v SPEAKER_2>Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was a member of the Twelve.

01:38:12.629 --> 01:38:17.729
<v SPEAKER_2>He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them.

01:38:18.169 --> 01:38:20.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And they were glad and agreed to give him money.

01:38:20.869 --> 01:38:25.849
<v SPEAKER_2>So he consented and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd.

01:38:27.109 --> 01:38:31.809
<v SPEAKER_2>While he was still speaking, there came a crowd, and a man called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

01:38:32.669 --> 01:38:38.449
<v SPEAKER_2>He drew near to Jesus to kiss him, but Jesus said to him, Judas, would you betray the Son of Man with a kiss?

01:38:39.789 --> 01:38:43.109
<v SPEAKER_2>And the parallel passage from Matthew 26 telling the same event.

01:38:43.849 --> 01:38:52.129
<v SPEAKER_2>While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the Twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people.

01:38:52.729 --> 01:38:57.729
<v SPEAKER_2>Now the betrayer had given them a sign saying, The one I will kiss is the man, seize him.

01:38:58.189 --> 01:39:00.969
<v SPEAKER_2>And he came up to Jesus at once and said, Greetings, Rabbi.

01:39:01.489 --> 01:39:02.249
<v SPEAKER_2>And he kissed him.

01:39:02.729 --> 01:39:05.109
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus said to him, Friend, do what you came to do.

01:39:05.529 --> 01:39:08.229
<v SPEAKER_2>Then they came up and laid hands on Jesus and seized him.

01:39:10.889 --> 01:39:18.489
<v SPEAKER_2>As I was reading this passage, it struck me how functionally fruitless Judas' betrayal actually was.

01:39:18.869 --> 01:39:23.129
<v SPEAKER_2>It was obviously a betrayal because God says it was, but what did he accomplish?

01:39:23.609 --> 01:39:25.329
<v SPEAKER_2>There were no new accusations.

01:39:26.009 --> 01:39:38.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Literally nothing had changed on this night than from any of the prior days where the Pharisees were trying to murder him, where the Jews who had followed him around for three years were trying to murder him.

01:39:39.989 --> 01:39:43.069
<v SPEAKER_2>The only thing that changed was that this was now the moment.

01:39:43.529 --> 01:39:47.429
<v SPEAKER_2>This was the night when Christ prophesied he would be betrayed and handed over.

01:39:48.349 --> 01:39:50.629
<v SPEAKER_2>And he prophesied that they would betray him.

01:39:51.729 --> 01:39:52.489
<v SPEAKER_2>God permitted it.

01:39:52.909 --> 01:39:57.669
<v SPEAKER_2>The only thing that changed was that God finally permitted this to happen because the time was ripe.

01:39:58.309 --> 01:40:02.349
<v SPEAKER_2>And so Judas doxing Jesus was just what that was.

01:40:02.769 --> 01:40:04.629
<v SPEAKER_2>Judas doxed Jesus with a kiss.

01:40:04.649 --> 01:40:07.849
<v SPEAKER_2>He said, this man right here, this is the one to kill.

01:40:08.889 --> 01:40:11.609
<v SPEAKER_2>And then they hauled Jesus off and then Judas went away.

01:40:12.129 --> 01:40:15.909
<v SPEAKER_2>And then he realized his betrayal and the depth of his sin.

01:40:16.389 --> 01:40:23.609
<v SPEAKER_2>But rather than repenting and saying, I have done the most wicked thing in history, he could have fallen on God's mercy.

01:40:24.089 --> 01:40:27.149
<v SPEAKER_2>He knew, he heard God's mercy for years.

01:40:27.549 --> 01:40:28.869
<v SPEAKER_2>He learned at Jesus' feet.

01:40:29.509 --> 01:40:31.409
<v SPEAKER_2>He instead did not repent.

01:40:31.429 --> 01:40:33.609
<v SPEAKER_2>He despaired and he took his own life.

01:40:34.589 --> 01:40:38.529
<v SPEAKER_2>He chose to remain in this, the worst sin of all.

01:40:41.909 --> 01:40:46.089
<v SPEAKER_2>But what he did functionally was just to dox him and say, here, this guy, get him.

01:40:46.509 --> 01:40:49.289
<v SPEAKER_2>He wasn't an accuser in the sense that he brought new charges.

01:40:49.829 --> 01:40:55.989
<v SPEAKER_2>It wasn't like Judas leaked screenshots from a DM and said, here you go Pharisees.

01:40:56.309 --> 01:40:59.109
<v SPEAKER_2>Now you have the secret stuff that you can use to really get this guy.

01:40:59.349 --> 01:41:00.869
<v SPEAKER_2>No, there was nothing new.

01:41:01.249 --> 01:41:04.009
<v SPEAKER_2>It was just that God said, okay, I'll let you do it now.

01:41:04.289 --> 01:41:05.829
<v SPEAKER_2>And so it was set in motion.

01:41:07.649 --> 01:41:19.889
<v SPEAKER_2>And what we read in Mark 14, I'm mixing and matching all the Gospels here, after this, And they led Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests and the elders of the scribes came together.

01:41:20.229 --> 01:41:23.829
<v SPEAKER_2>And Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest.

01:41:24.309 --> 01:41:26.829
<v SPEAKER_2>And he was sitting with the guards and warming himself at the fire.

01:41:27.169 --> 01:41:33.189
<v SPEAKER_2>Now the chief priests and the whole council were seeking testimony against Jesus to put him to death, but they found none.

01:41:33.809 --> 01:41:38.069
<v SPEAKER_2>For many bore false witness against him, but their testimony did not agree.

01:41:38.629 --> 01:41:48.009
<v SPEAKER_2>And some stood up and bore false witness against him, saying, We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.

01:41:48.629 --> 01:41:50.829
<v SPEAKER_2>Yet even about this testimony they did not agree.

01:41:51.209 --> 01:41:54.849
<v SPEAKER_2>And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, Have you no answer to make?

01:41:55.249 --> 01:41:57.149
<v SPEAKER_2>Was it that these men testify against you?

01:41:57.429 --> 01:41:59.469
<v SPEAKER_2>But he remained silent and made no answer.

01:41:59.889 --> 01:42:03.369
<v SPEAKER_2>Again the high priest asked him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

01:42:03.829 --> 01:42:10.329
<v SPEAKER_2>And Jesus said, I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.

01:42:10.869 --> 01:42:14.729
<v SPEAKER_2>And the high priest tore his garments and said, What further witnesses do we need?

01:42:14.989 --> 01:42:16.289
<v SPEAKER_2>You have heard his blasphemy.

01:42:16.509 --> 01:42:17.409
<v SPEAKER_2>What is your decision?

01:42:17.749 --> 01:42:20.229
<v SPEAKER_2>And they all condemned him as deserving death.

01:42:22.209 --> 01:42:26.509
<v SPEAKER_2>This passage describes false witness over and over and over again.

01:42:26.829 --> 01:42:33.509
<v SPEAKER_2>They had all these people who were coming to testify so they could gin up charges to murder Christ, and they couldn't get their act together.

01:42:33.869 --> 01:42:35.369
<v SPEAKER_2>This is the same thing we see today.

01:42:35.689 --> 01:42:40.249
<v SPEAKER_2>When false accusations are laid against men who are Christians today, they're incoherent.

01:42:40.529 --> 01:42:41.449
<v SPEAKER_2>They don't line up.

01:42:41.829 --> 01:42:48.209
<v SPEAKER_2>The same men who bring a charge one day will say the opposite the next day, and yet they consider all of it to be damning.

01:42:48.229 --> 01:42:48.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Why?

01:42:48.829 --> 01:42:49.929
<v SPEAKER_2>Because they're accusers.

01:42:50.409 --> 01:42:51.629
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan is an accuser.

01:42:51.649 --> 01:42:56.429
<v SPEAKER_2>All he needs is to continue lobbing accusations, slander.

01:42:56.949 --> 01:43:04.009
<v SPEAKER_2>As long as he continues to fill the air with slander, hatred is the only thing that he will permit to rule in men's hearts.

01:43:05.229 --> 01:43:19.749
<v SPEAKER_2>Jesus just sat there and took it, and when they finally gave up trying to make up accusations because it all fell apart, even their false witness was pointless, he finally said, I am the son of man, which was what they've been looking for the whole time.

01:43:19.769 --> 01:43:36.309
<v SPEAKER_2>Remember, from the beginning of his ministry, anytime anyone said, you are the son of God, he agreed, and then he said, keep it secret, because the time was not yet ripe for that to be revealed to the world, because when that was revealed, he knew that it would trigger their murder.

01:43:36.889 --> 01:43:38.629
<v SPEAKER_2>Why would it trigger the murder of God?

01:43:39.029 --> 01:43:40.529
<v SPEAKER_2>Because the Jews hated God.

01:43:41.729 --> 01:43:50.289
<v SPEAKER_2>Evil hates God and necessarily must seek God's destruction in all places and all times, including his servants, including his messengers.

01:43:50.749 --> 01:43:54.129
<v SPEAKER_2>Wherever his word is found, you're going to find the same behavior.

01:43:54.609 --> 01:44:00.129
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a pattern that repeats in Scripture, it repeats throughout time, and it repeats today.

01:44:00.689 --> 01:44:01.829
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan has a playbook.

01:44:01.849 --> 01:44:03.689
<v SPEAKER_2>He loves this stuff because it always works.

01:44:05.109 --> 01:44:13.109
<v SPEAKER_2>So just keep in mind that the thing that nailed Christ to the cross was false witness.

01:44:13.669 --> 01:44:17.709
<v SPEAKER_2>It was slander against him for men who lied and lied and lied.

01:44:18.049 --> 01:44:28.129
<v SPEAKER_2>And even though all their lies were incoherent and disagreed, it didn't matter because when the truth of God was told, that was sufficient for them to murder him, which is what he promised.

01:44:28.389 --> 01:44:31.409
<v SPEAKER_2>He promised it of himself and he promises it to us too.

01:44:31.889 --> 01:44:35.569
<v SPEAKER_2>When we say what God says, we're going to receive the same kind of treatment.

01:44:36.269 --> 01:44:39.129
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're not being treated like this, you're not saying enough.

01:44:39.809 --> 01:44:44.549
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a hard thing to hear because some people are not in a position to be able to do that.

01:44:44.969 --> 01:44:49.989
<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm not condemning a man who's not sticking his head up above the line of fire to get it shot off.

01:44:51.429 --> 01:44:52.509
<v SPEAKER_2>We're all going to have our time.

01:44:52.989 --> 01:44:57.289
<v SPEAKER_2>And when men are able to do it before you, have their back.

01:44:57.809 --> 01:45:05.829
<v SPEAKER_2>Don't participate in slander against them because the false witness that you bear against someone who's a messenger of God will be held against you.

01:45:07.049 --> 01:45:21.509
<v SPEAKER_1>We've mentioned a number of times on this show that one of the purposes of Stone Choir is the and then what of the Christian life, which is to say it's how to live a Christian life.

01:45:22.029 --> 01:45:29.989
<v SPEAKER_1>We've gone over topics in episodes that have to deal with the core of what it means to be and to become a Christian.

01:45:30.469 --> 01:45:32.869
<v SPEAKER_1>And so we've gone over the sacraments for instance.

01:45:33.389 --> 01:45:42.329
<v SPEAKER_1>So there's repent, believe the gospel, be baptized, attend the divine service, receive the body and blood of Christ.

01:45:44.049 --> 01:45:44.729
<v SPEAKER_1>And then what?

01:45:45.909 --> 01:45:47.509
<v SPEAKER_1>A lot of this show is about that.

01:45:47.529 --> 01:45:51.049
<v SPEAKER_1>It's how do you live in this world as a Christian?

01:45:51.649 --> 01:45:53.509
<v SPEAKER_1>What does it mean to behave as a Christian?

01:45:54.109 --> 01:45:56.629
<v SPEAKER_1>What are we required to do by scripture?

01:45:57.249 --> 01:45:59.489
<v SPEAKER_1>It's one of the uses of the law, of course.

01:46:01.349 --> 01:46:11.049
<v SPEAKER_1>But in addition to that, in particular in this episode, I would like to offer you something even beyond the and then what, and that is the and now what.

01:46:14.809 --> 01:46:21.169
<v SPEAKER_1>The answer to then in this episode is how a Christian is supposed to view slander.

01:46:21.889 --> 01:46:25.109
<v SPEAKER_1>What you are supposed to do and what you are not supposed to do.

01:46:26.369 --> 01:46:37.449
<v SPEAKER_1>The scope of slander in the theological context as opposed to the civil context, again, to remind you again that it is broader than the civil context.

01:46:38.469 --> 01:46:47.709
<v SPEAKER_1>And we've gone over that, and we will link materials in the show notes for you to read, including the section from The Large Catechism, much of which I already read in the episode.

01:46:50.189 --> 01:46:52.849
<v SPEAKER_1>But the and now what is important?

01:46:52.869 --> 01:46:55.349
<v SPEAKER_1>What do you do with this information?

01:46:56.689 --> 01:47:06.689
<v SPEAKER_1>What do you do now that you have been told, this is what slander is, this is what scripture tells you to do, this is what scripture tells you not to do?

01:47:07.109 --> 01:47:09.149
<v SPEAKER_1>Well, how do I do this in my daily life?

01:47:11.329 --> 01:47:17.089
<v SPEAKER_1>The issue of slander itself issuing from you, of course, is relatively straightforward.

01:47:17.529 --> 01:47:18.749
<v SPEAKER_1>Don't slander your neighbor.

01:47:19.789 --> 01:47:20.509
<v SPEAKER_1>This is easy.

01:47:21.189 --> 01:47:24.369
<v SPEAKER_1>It's very difficult to do, but it's easy to understand.

01:47:24.929 --> 01:47:27.269
<v SPEAKER_1>Do not speak ill of your neighbor.

01:47:27.889 --> 01:47:34.589
<v SPEAKER_1>That's the real core sense to take away from the episode and from what we've said about what slander is.

01:47:34.609 --> 01:47:36.469
<v SPEAKER_1>It is to speak ill of another.

01:47:37.909 --> 01:47:39.889
<v SPEAKER_1>And so do not slander your neighbor.

01:47:40.689 --> 01:47:43.289
<v SPEAKER_1>That's simply a restatement of The 8th Commandment.

01:47:44.869 --> 01:47:46.489
<v SPEAKER_1>But what else do you need to do?

01:47:47.129 --> 01:47:50.849
<v SPEAKER_1>What should you do now that you know the scope of slander?

01:47:51.189 --> 01:47:54.609
<v SPEAKER_1>What is demanded of a Christian in this life by God and His Word?

01:47:57.409 --> 01:48:07.449
<v SPEAKER_1>One of the, I guess we could call it an action item if we were so inclined, but one thing that you can do, something you can put into practice in your own life, is to rebuke those who slander.

01:48:08.769 --> 01:48:26.569
<v SPEAKER_1>We've mentioned this already a couple times in this episode, but if someone starts to tell you gossip about someone else, if someone starts to speak ill of his neighbor, your neighbor, tell him to stop, rebuke him, tell him, if he is a Christian, that is impermissible for a Christian to do.

01:48:26.769 --> 01:48:28.689
<v SPEAKER_1>You are violating the 8th Commandment.

01:48:29.009 --> 01:48:30.589
<v SPEAKER_1>You are slandering your neighbor.

01:48:30.609 --> 01:48:32.049
<v SPEAKER_1>You are bearing false witness.

01:48:32.429 --> 01:48:33.869
<v SPEAKER_1>You need to stop and repent.

01:48:33.889 --> 01:48:36.649
<v SPEAKER_1>If you have a problem with your neighbor, go to him.

01:48:37.089 --> 01:48:38.269
<v SPEAKER_1>Don't tell me about it.

01:48:39.409 --> 01:48:42.709
<v SPEAKER_1>Don't involve me in your wickedness, as we heard in Proverbs.

01:48:43.389 --> 01:48:46.029
<v SPEAKER_1>Do not make me a sinner along with you.

01:48:46.389 --> 01:48:48.729
<v SPEAKER_1>I do not want to participate in your sin.

01:48:49.389 --> 01:48:50.869
<v SPEAKER_1>Stop slandering your neighbor.

01:48:52.829 --> 01:49:01.449
<v SPEAKER_1>And so, yes, one of the things you can do, you can implement this immediately in your life, is to rebuke those who engage in slander.

01:49:02.329 --> 01:49:04.449
<v SPEAKER_1>Is that going to be uncomfortable in many cases?

01:49:04.469 --> 01:49:05.069
<v SPEAKER_1>Yes, of course.

01:49:06.069 --> 01:49:12.349
<v SPEAKER_1>Because it has become something that is alien to our culture, because our culture has strayed so far from God and His Word.

01:49:13.449 --> 01:49:17.269
<v SPEAKER_1>But this is how we start to rebuild a Christian society.

01:49:17.889 --> 01:49:26.449
<v SPEAKER_1>This is how we start to drag society, kicking and screaming, back to proper behavior, back to its Christian foundations where it should be.

01:49:28.229 --> 01:49:32.489
<v SPEAKER_1>And so what you can do in your life is simply rebuke those who engage in slander.

01:49:33.629 --> 01:49:35.469
<v SPEAKER_1>And it's not just a matter of you can do this.

01:49:36.109 --> 01:49:37.189
<v SPEAKER_1>You need to do this.

01:49:38.009 --> 01:49:40.249
<v SPEAKER_1>You are required by Scripture to do this.

01:49:41.429 --> 01:49:52.309
<v SPEAKER_1>Because again, what God says in His Word is that if you do not rebuke the slanderer, if you just listen, you are a participant in that sin.

01:49:52.909 --> 01:49:58.329
<v SPEAKER_1>You become a sinner along with the slanderer because you have participated in his wickedness.

01:49:59.489 --> 01:50:07.789
<v SPEAKER_1>This is not one of those cases where you can simply wash your hands, stand back, and not be a sinner because you didn't participate in the wickedness.

01:50:09.469 --> 01:50:15.249
<v SPEAKER_1>God gives you an affirmative duty here, and that duty is to rebuke the one who slanders.

01:50:16.049 --> 01:50:18.249
<v SPEAKER_1>And as a Christian, that is not an optional matter.

01:50:19.549 --> 01:50:22.769
<v SPEAKER_1>We should view this as an opportunity for good works.

01:50:23.369 --> 01:50:24.749
<v SPEAKER_1>We should view this as a good thing.

01:50:24.769 --> 01:50:35.749
<v SPEAKER_1>We should welcome this because God has given us something to do, not only to better our society, to protect our neighbor, but also to serve God by doing what he commands.

01:50:36.509 --> 01:50:40.069
<v SPEAKER_1>This is an opportunity for good works, and we engage in it.

01:50:41.169 --> 01:50:45.669
<v SPEAKER_1>We are exposed to this opportunity practically daily living in this society.

01:50:46.969 --> 01:50:51.949
<v SPEAKER_1>And so, yes, there is the and now what for this episode.

01:50:53.249 --> 01:50:59.549
<v SPEAKER_1>Go out and rebuke those you hear engaging in slander because it is your Christian duty to do so.

01:51:00.949 --> 01:51:13.149
<v SPEAKER_2>I want to leave you all with the words of 1 Peter 3 as an exhortation not only to do what Cory just said, but also to take heart as you face the difficulties in doing that.

01:51:14.029 --> 01:51:16.829
<v SPEAKER_2>We know that the things that we faced are certainly not unique.

01:51:16.849 --> 01:51:20.229
<v SPEAKER_2>We're certainly not the first, even in our community, to face these things.

01:51:20.829 --> 01:51:28.429
<v SPEAKER_2>Many of you who are listening have shared your stories about the persecution you have faced in your churches, in your employers, in your communities.

01:51:29.089 --> 01:51:30.929
<v SPEAKER_2>This is the norm today.

01:51:31.489 --> 01:51:33.189
<v SPEAKER_2>It is rapidly expanding.

01:51:33.969 --> 01:51:37.489
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, as we've said, there's much in Scripture that encourages us.

01:51:37.989 --> 01:51:38.949
<v SPEAKER_2>You will face this.

01:51:39.289 --> 01:51:39.929
<v SPEAKER_2>God knows.

01:51:40.429 --> 01:51:46.549
<v SPEAKER_2>And if God knows what's going to happen and He calls you His, you don't need to worry that He's not going to take care of you.

01:51:48.009 --> 01:51:48.889
<v SPEAKER_2>So we end with this.

01:51:50.209 --> 01:51:53.249
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good?

01:51:53.869 --> 01:51:57.409
<v SPEAKER_2>But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed.

01:51:57.829 --> 01:51:59.669
<v SPEAKER_2>Have no fear of them, nor be troubled.

01:51:59.949 --> 01:52:07.869
<v SPEAKER_2>But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason, for the hope that is in you.

01:52:08.649 --> 01:52:17.309
<v SPEAKER_2>Yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

01:52:18.009 --> 01:52:23.169
<v SPEAKER_2>For it is better to suffer for doing good if that should be God's will than for doing evil.

01:52:23.189 --> 01:52:23.309
<v SPEAKER_1>Thanks for!