Transcript: Episode 0073
This transcript:
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WEBVTT 00:00:37.309 --> 00:00:39.469Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:00:39.769 --> 00:00:40.749 I am Corey J. 00:00:40.769 --> 00:00:41.189 Mahler. 00:00:41.809 --> 00:00:43.009 And I'm still woe. 00:00:45.389 --> 00:00:51.749 On today's Stone Choir, we are continuing what is the second of our three-part series on various facets of love. 00:00:52.309 --> 00:00:57.429 Last week, we talked about sacrifice and charity as certain aspects of love. 00:00:58.009 --> 00:01:02.689 We made the point in the intro to that episode that these are really all facets of one thing. 00:01:03.609 --> 00:01:06.409 And so, there are lots of different words for them, there are different concepts. 00:01:06.809 --> 00:01:10.009 And some of those concepts and words vary in different languages. 00:01:10.489 --> 00:01:19.189 But our ultimate point is to be talking about love overall, because it's not always the way that we think about love in English. 00:01:19.749 --> 00:01:28.109 You might say that you love Stone Choir, but that's not the same way that you love your kid or the same way that you love the state that you live in. 00:01:29.329 --> 00:01:32.109 It's okay for that word to be overloaded like that. 00:01:32.109 --> 00:01:36.789 And we all instinctively understand that there are different facets when we're using those things. 00:01:37.509 --> 00:01:49.149 But by spending a little time discussing the specifics of the individual facets, we can begin to see certain places in our lives where we're failing to live up to some aspect of them. 00:01:49.789 --> 00:02:03.489 And ultimately, the reason for doing this three-part series is both to illustrate, especially in the third part next week, which as I mentioned last week when we're doing the episode on marriage, that will be a strictly no kids allowed episode. 00:02:03.509 --> 00:02:10.349 And if you already had that conversation screened with your kids and want them to hear it, but we're going to segregate everything about marriage in that. 00:02:10.809 --> 00:02:21.569 But marriage itself, when you're talking about even Eros, there's also Agape, and there's a more, the different facets in Greek of what we will call marital love in English. 00:02:22.449 --> 00:02:31.449 It's a continuum, there's overlap, there are exclusions in some cases because the way you love your wife isn't the way you love your best friend, isn't the way you love your dog. 00:02:31.589 --> 00:02:32.189 That's okay. 00:02:32.629 --> 00:02:42.229 And so when we talk about it, we want to shine a light on where it does come into play because that also illustrates when some of those things are absent. 00:02:42.649 --> 00:02:49.629 Because ultimately all these are duties from God that we have to these various parts of our life. 00:02:50.289 --> 00:02:55.769 We're finite beings, we can only love so much in the context around us. 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:59.509 I can't love you the way I would love my family. 00:02:59.529 --> 00:03:02.389 I'm not supposed to, it would be perverted to try. 00:03:03.069 --> 00:03:06.949 And that's something that we're being told the opposite in most of the world. 00:03:06.969 --> 00:03:10.149 We're all being told, oh, you have to have infinite love for everyone. 00:03:10.429 --> 00:03:11.729 Well, that's God's job. 00:03:12.469 --> 00:03:14.569 God can do that, we can't. 00:03:15.069 --> 00:03:21.309 So when God puts us in a context with neighbors and family, et cetera, that is where we are to manifest that love. 00:03:21.769 --> 00:03:42.929 And it includes things like love of neighbor that we'll be getting into some today, that there's a duty that's involved, there are relationships that are involved, and sometimes they're formal relationships, sometimes they're structural, like family, and sometimes they're transient, like the relationship that you have to a neighbor, as in the case of the Good Samaritan. 00:03:43.449 --> 00:03:52.369 That was a relationship only insofar as he found a man injured by the side of the road, took care of him, paid his medical bills, took him someplace to be cared for and then left. 00:03:52.909 --> 00:04:01.909 That wasn't the sort of relationship that you have with family, but it was a commendable relationship because in the moment the duty that he had was to the man right in front of him. 00:04:02.329 --> 00:04:10.449 So there are all these different aspects that as Christians and as men, we have these duties all the time and we don't think about it for the most part. 00:04:11.269 --> 00:04:14.489 That becomes a problem when we fail to exercise those duties. 00:04:15.149 --> 00:04:17.529 We did the episode on slander, for example. 00:04:18.049 --> 00:04:27.409 It is a failure to love whomever you are hearing slander about when you continue to entertain it because their reputation is being eroded in your mind. 00:04:27.649 --> 00:04:38.469 Even if you don't believe what's being said, if you will tolerate slander against a man who's not present and his name is being destroyed and you don't speak up for him and say, if you got a problem with this guy, go talk to him. 00:04:38.609 --> 00:04:39.629 Don't tell me about it. 00:04:40.229 --> 00:04:43.449 The failure to do that is a deficit of love. 00:04:44.049 --> 00:04:52.369 And so you don't think about not engaging in something like slander as love or not love, but it's fundamentally always present. 00:04:52.849 --> 00:05:01.129 Whenever we fail to do any of these duties to any of our concentric circles of relationships, there's some failure of love there. 00:05:01.729 --> 00:05:07.769 As I said last week, ultimately pointing to all these things is not a bunch of la, la, la, we must do this. 00:05:08.349 --> 00:05:22.089 Ultimately, this is talking about God's good things being poured out through us in His image, in facets of His image, as imperfect humans were able to demonstrate to each other, and the good works that were prepared for us were for others. 00:05:22.509 --> 00:05:24.669 God didn't give me good works to do for myself. 00:05:24.989 --> 00:05:26.889 It's not a good work unless I give it away. 00:05:27.389 --> 00:05:35.569 And so the love that's involved in that sort of giving, that sort of service is from God, it's for neighborly, it's good stuff. 00:05:35.829 --> 00:05:40.369 It's all ultimately about doing and being good in the image of God. 00:05:40.789 --> 00:05:46.469 And as Christians with that restored image of God, that is what we're doing in the world. 00:05:47.309 --> 00:05:50.569 So today we're going to be talking about six other facets. 00:05:50.589 --> 00:05:55.989 This is going to be kind of the biggest collection of the three episodes, but there's all a lot of overlap. 00:05:56.289 --> 00:05:58.389 And so these aren't exclusive. 00:05:58.709 --> 00:06:03.309 We made the case last week, we're not trying to subdivide this stuff. 00:06:03.769 --> 00:06:10.129 Because like I said, sometimes there's a continuum, sometimes like if he's your buddy, what aspect of love is it? 00:06:10.169 --> 00:06:14.789 Even though you never say it's love, a man is typically not going to say that he loves another man most of the time. 00:06:15.049 --> 00:06:16.389 There's nothing wrong with that. 00:06:16.789 --> 00:06:24.229 And it's something that's been destroyed in our culture that now for a man to say that he loves another man in any context, people go, oh, that's gay. 00:06:24.449 --> 00:06:28.869 Like, well, it's kind of perverted that we've begun to think that way. 00:06:28.889 --> 00:06:31.249 That's not how the Christian mind should work. 00:06:31.829 --> 00:06:33.809 You know, there are a lot of other words for these things. 00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:40.209 And so as we go through today's examples, just keep in mind that these are not subdivided, these are not exclusive of each other. 00:06:40.589 --> 00:06:48.489 These are all just different ways that we as men, and particularly we as Christians, interact with each other as we live our lives in the world. 00:06:50.389 --> 00:07:00.769 So as Will mentioned, we're really going over six, not necessarily distinct, but related and overlapping concepts today, types of love. 00:07:02.229 --> 00:07:12.389 You could say there's a seventh if you want to include friendship, but friendship is really at one end of the spectrum under one of these types of love. 00:07:13.409 --> 00:07:23.789 And so the six types we'll be going over are philia, storge, delectio, amor, pietas and amor paternos. 00:07:24.469 --> 00:07:31.009 That last one is important and has sort of faded from our cultural understanding and really from our culture. 00:07:31.409 --> 00:07:34.089 And so we'll probably spend a fair amount of time on that one. 00:07:36.369 --> 00:07:45.589 But as we've said throughout and as we'll mention additional times in this series, the focus is not the terms themselves. 00:07:45.609 --> 00:07:47.329 The focus is not the Greek and the Latin. 00:07:48.809 --> 00:07:51.629 We have words for all of these in English. 00:07:51.869 --> 00:07:54.969 We just don't have single words for many of them. 00:07:55.409 --> 00:08:00.209 And so storge, as mentioned in last week's episode, is familial love. 00:08:01.109 --> 00:08:09.409 Philia is brotherly love, and that is the one under which we would place friendship, if we were going to use that as an umbrella term, which it really is. 00:08:10.729 --> 00:08:15.069 Delectio and Amor are respectively intellectual and emotional love. 00:08:16.489 --> 00:08:26.929 I want to spend a little time on how exactly we're using those terms, because it is distinct to some degree from the historical usage, but not entirely. 00:08:28.089 --> 00:08:33.289 We don't have to be entirely in line with how any particular ancient culture used these terms. 00:08:33.309 --> 00:08:44.349 And so we're not saying that how the Romans conceived of these was exactly correct, and we're using only those terms, which should be obvious from the fact that we're using both Greek and Latin terms. 00:08:45.789 --> 00:08:50.749 To some degree, we are using them in the same sense that they would have been used in the ancient world. 00:08:52.689 --> 00:08:56.389 But we're using them with a particular nuance or force to them. 00:08:56.889 --> 00:09:06.969 And I want you to think of these two forms of love almost more as an accent or an emphasis for the other forms of love. 00:09:07.309 --> 00:09:09.989 They don't really stand alone as it were. 00:09:10.729 --> 00:09:12.509 None of these forms stand alone. 00:09:12.529 --> 00:09:19.849 They're all interrelated to the point where if you have one, you'll always have one of the others present as well, one or more of the others present. 00:09:21.329 --> 00:09:26.929 But again, think of a more as emotional love and delectio as intellectual love. 00:09:28.149 --> 00:09:36.669 Because those are two different, two distinct kinds of love, two different emphases that you can place onto the other forms of love. 00:09:37.009 --> 00:09:48.469 And so for instance, you could have a friend that would fall under philia, the brotherly love, but you could have a relationship with that friend that is more intellectual than emotional. 00:09:49.429 --> 00:09:53.249 And there are some friends where it's more of an emotional relationship than an intellectual one. 00:09:53.609 --> 00:09:58.109 And there will be distinctions there between male friendship and female friendship. 00:09:59.189 --> 00:10:03.349 There are going to be different nuances for different kinds of relationships. 00:10:03.709 --> 00:10:12.089 And so amor, emotional love, and delectio, intellectual love, are a sort of accent on to the other forms of love. 00:10:12.689 --> 00:10:18.129 A way that you can help couch those forms with regard to actual human relationships. 00:10:19.849 --> 00:10:23.869 And then the third pair would be Piatas and Amor Paternus. 00:10:24.429 --> 00:10:26.889 Piatas, of course, we have the term piety. 00:10:28.009 --> 00:10:35.269 We are using it in this series in a particular sense that is more in line with the ancient sense than the modern sense. 00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:48.449 Because the modern sense really has been collapsed into the religious sense of the ancient term, which is piety with regard to religion, with regard to veneration, worship, things like that. 00:10:49.509 --> 00:10:56.809 That's not the extent of the ancient term, and it's not the way, not the exclusive way, in which we are using it in this series. 00:10:57.889 --> 00:11:03.149 So I want you to think of pietos, piety, we'll probably just stick with the English term mostly. 00:11:03.509 --> 00:11:11.409 I want you to think of it as being more expansive than how you have become accustomed to using it and thinking of it in English. 00:11:12.069 --> 00:11:14.409 It is not just with regard to religion. 00:11:14.749 --> 00:11:19.289 It is also with regard to those who are above you in the social hierarchy. 00:11:19.729 --> 00:11:25.749 It is with regard to those who are higher up the ladder with regard to the government. 00:11:27.909 --> 00:11:37.669 Not necessarily with regard to our current form of government, but think of a more appropriate form of government, how the government should be, how things should be run. 00:11:37.969 --> 00:12:02.569 And so if we had an aristocracy, the aristocrat with regard to the peasants or whatever you want to call the person at the lowest rung of the ladder, with regard to that man, he would have the paternalistic love with regard to those lower, but the man who is lower down would have piety with regard to those higher. 00:12:03.149 --> 00:12:10.329 And of course that leads into the other half of this pair, which is a more paternus, which is paternal or paternalistic love. 00:12:12.009 --> 00:12:14.709 Do not think of that as simply being fatherly. 00:12:14.729 --> 00:12:17.009 That's why I didn't say fatherly love. 00:12:17.029 --> 00:12:19.629 It is paternal or paternalistic love. 00:12:19.649 --> 00:12:22.489 Those are equivalent terms for all of our purposes here. 00:12:23.729 --> 00:12:31.869 That is the love of the higher for the lower, because there are certain duties that flow from that, and we'll get more into that as the episode proceeds. 00:12:32.929 --> 00:12:41.189 But there are duties that you have if you are higher up the social hierarchy, if you are effectively an aristocrat. 00:12:41.209 --> 00:12:50.189 We still have that to some degree in our society because we do have largely economic classes today instead of what they used to be. 00:12:50.989 --> 00:13:01.149 But nonetheless, if God has blessed you with that station, with a higher station in life, you are to use that in part to the benefit of those beneath you. 00:13:03.329 --> 00:13:12.349 As we have mentioned many times before, simply saying that someone is beneath or below or another person is superior or higher is not an assessment of moral worth. 00:13:12.849 --> 00:13:15.189 It is simply a reflection of the reality. 00:13:15.749 --> 00:13:20.289 If you are king, you are superior to everyone else in your kingdom. 00:13:21.789 --> 00:13:28.249 If you are an aristocrat, you are superior to the serfs who are below you in the hierarchy. 00:13:28.889 --> 00:13:35.089 And you're going to have various levels of lords and aristocrats and such in a properly organized system. 00:13:35.109 --> 00:13:37.229 We won't get into those because the terms don't matter. 00:13:37.249 --> 00:13:42.089 A given system is going to use one set versus another system using another set. 00:13:42.549 --> 00:13:53.069 The point is the existence of that hierarchy and the duties that are owed up the ladder and down the ladder and the form of love that that takes. 00:13:54.069 --> 00:13:55.689 Because all of this should be done in love. 00:13:55.689 --> 00:13:58.389 As a Christian, that much should be obvious. 00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:02.189 Scripture speaks everywhere of love. 00:14:03.509 --> 00:14:05.809 And love is not just a warm feeling. 00:14:05.829 --> 00:14:09.129 And so a more emotional love is not just a warm feeling. 00:14:09.149 --> 00:14:09.989 There's more to it. 00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:14.389 There's a depth to it that isn't encompassed by just a warm feeling. 00:14:15.469 --> 00:14:18.789 But there are duties that come along with love as well. 00:14:19.749 --> 00:14:25.209 We see this very clearly in the instance of paternal love when it applies specifically to a father. 00:14:25.929 --> 00:14:28.309 Because we all know that a father has certain duties. 00:14:29.489 --> 00:14:35.209 Now, of course, this is going to be related to agape as well and shtorge, because shtorge is familial love. 00:14:36.829 --> 00:14:44.629 But with regard to the father, specifically, you have the paternalistic duties that come along with it, and that is a form of love. 00:14:46.289 --> 00:14:56.209 However, to start off the episode, as it were, now that we've laid the foundation, the groundwork for it, we'll start with the pairing of philia and shtorge. 00:14:57.609 --> 00:15:01.209 These two are relatively closely related. 00:15:02.069 --> 00:15:06.429 In essence, the difference between them is the form of relationship. 00:15:06.449 --> 00:15:09.889 So remember that framework that we gave you last week. 00:15:10.409 --> 00:15:12.649 Who is doing the love? 00:15:13.569 --> 00:15:17.129 To whom is the love being done or to whom is it owed? 00:15:17.629 --> 00:15:20.889 And what is the nature and scope of the love? 00:15:24.529 --> 00:15:30.289 That essentially is the distinction here, the first two, who and whom. 00:15:31.109 --> 00:15:34.649 Really it's whom, but obviously you can change either one and have that change. 00:15:35.789 --> 00:15:40.109 The whom has to be related to the who with regard to familial love. 00:15:40.149 --> 00:15:46.249 One would think that practically goes without saying, given that the type of love is familial love. 00:15:46.729 --> 00:15:49.169 It is the love of one family member for another. 00:15:50.789 --> 00:15:55.569 As we mentioned in the last episode, each of these terms for love will be going over in the series. 00:15:57.409 --> 00:16:01.429 Really hide underneath them, within them, a spectrum. 00:16:01.709 --> 00:16:09.029 And that is the same for familial love, because of course you owe a higher duty to your parents than your third cousins. 00:16:10.549 --> 00:16:15.189 Many of these things in this episode and in the series in general are going to be obvious. 00:16:15.929 --> 00:16:19.929 You inherently understand this, because God has built this into nature. 00:16:19.949 --> 00:16:21.409 He has built it into reality. 00:16:21.929 --> 00:16:23.469 This is how you live out your life. 00:16:24.049 --> 00:16:27.849 If things do not follow these patterns, then they are disordered. 00:16:29.089 --> 00:16:31.629 And our society is incredibly disordered. 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:43.589 With regard to some of these pairs, when it comes to familial love, things inherently are going to be a little more ordered, just because of the way that biology works, quite frankly. 00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:50.829 You are most closely related to your siblings, assuming you have the same parents. 00:16:51.289 --> 00:17:01.269 You are then most closely related to your parents, and then you start moving outward from there for cousins and whatever degree removed, whatever degree of cousin. 00:17:02.729 --> 00:17:04.129 These are concentric circles. 00:17:05.009 --> 00:17:06.409 You owe the higher duty. 00:17:06.789 --> 00:17:11.429 You owe the stronger form of philia to those who are in the inner circle. 00:17:12.449 --> 00:17:23.409 And then as it extends outward, you owe a weaker version, a less demanding version of philia to each of those in those circles. 00:17:25.949 --> 00:17:43.689 Now, with regard to familial love, the greatest extent of it is going to be the nation, because a nation, as we have mentioned many times before in many other episodes, properly understood, is just an extended family. 00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:46.549 That is what it means to be a nation. 00:17:46.589 --> 00:17:49.369 A nation is an extended family. 00:17:49.389 --> 00:17:50.809 It is a people of one blood. 00:17:51.809 --> 00:18:00.429 And so the most tenuous, as it were, the most extended form of philia is going to be for your nation. 00:18:01.529 --> 00:18:06.749 This, of course, overlaps with piety, because piety is also a matter of national love. 00:18:07.089 --> 00:18:11.209 You could almost use the term national love for one of the aspects of piety. 00:18:11.629 --> 00:18:21.569 You just can't use it for all of piety because it encompasses more things to remind you that that term is being used more expansively than English typically uses it. 00:18:21.569 --> 00:18:23.389 Modern English typically uses it. 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:27.329 Many terms have lost some of the scope of their meaning over time. 00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:34.209 But that gives you the full spectrum, as it were, of the types of philia. 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:36.869 And of course, they shade one into the other at the edges. 00:18:37.529 --> 00:18:43.909 You have your immediate family, to whom you owe the highest duty, the strongest form of philia. 00:18:44.309 --> 00:18:49.229 And then you have your nation, which is the most extended form of that. 00:18:50.929 --> 00:18:55.789 And then you have, as we've mentioned, philia, which is brotherly love. 00:18:57.649 --> 00:19:05.049 This is what you have for your friends, for your acquaintances, for those to whom you are not related. 00:19:05.669 --> 00:19:14.749 Now, you can have philia, for those to whom you are related, on top of, as it were, or in addition to, shtorge, in addition to familial love. 00:19:16.169 --> 00:19:17.189 But it's not the same. 00:19:18.369 --> 00:19:19.229 And we all know this. 00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:24.149 The love that you have for a sibling is a different thing from the love you have for a friend. 00:19:24.729 --> 00:19:25.549 And that's fine. 00:19:25.569 --> 00:19:26.569 That is good order. 00:19:26.589 --> 00:19:28.529 That is how God has designed things. 00:19:29.409 --> 00:19:31.189 You don't choose your siblings. 00:19:31.409 --> 00:19:33.609 You do to some degree choose your friends. 00:19:35.669 --> 00:19:45.109 Of course, part of that is just going to be the fact that you are near certain people for extended periods of time, or you work with them, whatever it happens to be. 00:19:46.869 --> 00:19:49.769 Felia also is a spectrum. 00:19:50.849 --> 00:19:54.149 Brotherly love is a spectrum, much like familial love. 00:19:54.169 --> 00:19:58.849 And in English, maybe that gets a little confusing, a little gray, because they sound very similar. 00:19:59.229 --> 00:20:02.569 The Greek philia and the English familial love. 00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:08.769 That's part of the reason we're distinguishing them as familial love and brotherly love. 00:20:08.889 --> 00:20:16.409 And yes, to say something that practically doesn't need to be said, it doesn't just apply for men or between men. 00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:22.749 We are using the expansive form of brother or brotherly here. 00:20:23.169 --> 00:20:28.509 This is simply the love between those who are unrelated to one another. 00:20:31.489 --> 00:20:33.609 I think that the Latin helps here. 00:20:33.629 --> 00:20:40.269 Fraternal is the way that works better in English because that's more of a word that we understand. 00:20:40.289 --> 00:20:43.949 It comes from the Latin for brother, just like philia in Greek. 00:20:44.589 --> 00:20:58.129 We understand the things like fraternal societies, fraternal brotherhoods, which is redundant, but it's an important way of thinking about it because these are based on some sort of commonality. 00:20:58.489 --> 00:21:06.209 It's based on opting into something or some common shared bond that isn't necessarily directly familial. 00:21:07.089 --> 00:21:19.149 And one of the things that we see with fraternal bonds is that sometimes their formation comes about through specific events in someone's life. 00:21:19.629 --> 00:21:35.189 I think one of the most prominent examples of a fraternal bond that's very deep being formed between two men who are not related would be in the circumstance of combat, someone who's been in conflict, armed conflict, where you're physically in danger next to another man. 00:21:35.209 --> 00:21:38.109 As Corey said, that combines philia and more. 00:21:38.129 --> 00:21:43.569 There's emotional love, there's an emotional bond, and there's a brotherly fraternal bond. 00:21:44.129 --> 00:21:51.289 It's figuratively forged in fire by the fact that you are next to a man and you're fighting for his life, and he's fighting for yours. 00:21:51.869 --> 00:22:02.189 And that creates what is a lifelong fraternal bond that in many cases is stronger than what you're even necessarily going to feel for your own immediate biological family. 00:22:02.749 --> 00:22:09.069 Because as Corey said, you don't opt in to your family members, and you don't necessarily opt in to the man you're in a foxhole with. 00:22:09.589 --> 00:22:24.209 But when you're put through that together, no matter what the politics are, no matter what someone who hasn't served, like myself, you know, when I hear the term service, to me it kind of conjures the political sphere. 00:22:24.489 --> 00:22:27.449 It conjures things that I have a lot of problems with in one sense. 00:22:27.929 --> 00:22:40.449 But on the other sense, I absolutely understand that whatever steps it takes for a man to end up in a foxhole, in United States uniform with another man, in that moment, they're not fighting for me. 00:22:40.489 --> 00:22:43.569 They're not fighting for the American flag or for ideals. 00:22:43.969 --> 00:22:45.809 They're fighting for their brother next to them. 00:22:46.269 --> 00:22:52.129 And that brotherhood is formed, that fraternal bond is formed by the immediate threat that they're both facing. 00:22:52.609 --> 00:23:00.429 And so that forms an emotional bond, the bond of amor, of love, and it forms the bond of brotherly love. 00:23:00.529 --> 00:23:05.209 It's all those at once, and the crucible is the immediate physical danger. 00:23:05.869 --> 00:23:06.609 I haven't been there. 00:23:06.629 --> 00:23:09.389 I can put myself there intellectually, and I don't really want to. 00:23:09.409 --> 00:23:10.629 I don't need to think about that. 00:23:11.689 --> 00:23:16.709 Many of you who are listening have served and have been in those positions, and you have some of those lifelong friendships. 00:23:17.309 --> 00:23:21.449 And many of you perhaps lost brothers in those circumstances. 00:23:21.969 --> 00:23:27.989 And that loss isn't simply the sort of loss that one feels for, hey, I knew a coworker and he died. 00:23:28.349 --> 00:23:29.709 Like, I have coworkers who died. 00:23:29.929 --> 00:23:36.889 It's not remotely the same as when you're facing immediate danger together and one man lives and another man dies. 00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:39.949 That is a familial loss. 00:23:40.069 --> 00:23:45.369 It's a loss of love that has been forged by circumstance. 00:23:47.249 --> 00:24:06.689 Again, those brothers are your family and it's created by the fact that you've been together in that circumstance where you're both facing unbelievable hardship and privation and someone who hasn't been there can't understand, which is why something like stolen valor to someone who hasn't served may seem kind of goofy and kind of over the top. 00:24:06.709 --> 00:24:08.789 Sometimes it gets made fun of, especially online. 00:24:09.189 --> 00:24:12.869 But for someone who's actually done it, you're absolutely going to take it very seriously. 00:24:13.329 --> 00:24:22.649 For someone to pretend to have forged those bonds that you fought and you lost people for and you risked for, yeah, you're going to take that personally. 00:24:22.809 --> 00:24:31.889 It's going to trigger an emotional response because it's someone pretending to the sort of fraternal bond that I can't know from firsthand experience. 00:24:32.149 --> 00:24:35.469 And for someone to pretend to that is despicable. 00:24:35.829 --> 00:24:37.129 It's absolutely disgusting. 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:38.509 And it's rightly reviled. 00:24:38.929 --> 00:24:55.889 It's rightly received with an emotional response because you're messing with family, not with the biological family, with the sort of family that's been forged through loss and suffering and death in circumstances that someone who hasn't been there cannot understand. 00:24:56.429 --> 00:24:57.429 You can think about it. 00:24:57.549 --> 00:24:58.609 I don't really want to. 00:24:58.889 --> 00:25:03.569 It's not something I think normal men would dwell on, unless someone wants to write fiction or something. 00:25:03.589 --> 00:25:05.649 But even then, leave it to somebody who's been there. 00:25:05.669 --> 00:25:06.729 He's going to do a better job. 00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:15.789 But for the rest of us, it's kind of difficult to understand how closely tied men can be through those circumstances. 00:25:16.389 --> 00:25:22.169 And at the other end, you have the sort of brotherly friendship that may just be the guy who helps you move. 00:25:22.829 --> 00:25:30.369 I think one of the other good examples of the opposite end of bonding is the guy who's, I need to move across town. 00:25:30.669 --> 00:25:31.509 Who's going to show up? 00:25:32.229 --> 00:25:33.429 Those guys are your friends. 00:25:33.449 --> 00:25:34.389 Those are real friends. 00:25:34.809 --> 00:25:45.129 Maybe you have intellectual friends, guys you like to talk to, but the guy who shows up to help you move all day, especially if you're a little older and have a bunch of crap, it's going to take 8, 10 hours to move at all. 00:25:45.809 --> 00:25:46.789 That's a real friend. 00:25:47.069 --> 00:25:48.589 Even if he's not your closest friend. 00:25:49.069 --> 00:26:01.509 That's why I think moving is an interesting example because the guy who shows up to help you move, it's going to show he has a higher degree of character than maybe some of your friends who will talk to you all the time, but they're not going to show up when you need them. 00:26:02.089 --> 00:26:07.569 That's also the difference between the delectio, the intellectual love and the emotional love. 00:26:08.089 --> 00:26:19.629