Transcript: Episode 0078
This transcript:
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WEBVTT 00:00:37.292 --> 00:00:39.472Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:00:39.772 --> 00:00:40.752 I am Corey J. 00:00:40.772 --> 00:00:41.192 Mahler. 00:00:41.812 --> 00:00:43.012 And I'm still Woe. 00:00:44.752 --> 00:01:02.452 On today's Stone Choir, we're going to be discussing something that has been going on in the world, something that's been accused against us repeatedly, including very recently as the subject of violence and the advocacy of violence versus the incitement of violence and various other forms. 00:01:03.032 --> 00:01:07.992 So today, we're going to be talking for a couple hours entirely about violence. 00:01:08.772 --> 00:01:18.752 And we're going to have a somewhat lengthy preamble here to be very pedantic about what it is that we are and are not saying because people are sloppy with words. 00:01:18.832 --> 00:01:27.032 And so there are times when we will get into things definitionally where some people think that we're being autistic, which is a stupid criticism. 00:01:27.312 --> 00:01:29.432 We're being precise because the words matter. 00:01:30.072 --> 00:01:40.092 And so I didn't even realize that this was going on until this past week, until the controversy that arose that precipitates initially the thought. 00:01:40.492 --> 00:01:42.672 And we'll get into a little bit of details, but not too much. 00:01:43.132 --> 00:02:11.132 But I realized that in the past couple years when lying pastors and other false Christians have slandered and accused Corey and me of advocating slavery or advocating genocide or advocating this or that, it never occurred to me that in one very, very narrow sense, they were not lying, but what they were doing was lying by connotation. 00:02:11.732 --> 00:02:13.032 And so here's what I mean by this. 00:02:13.072 --> 00:02:15.932 That's not an admission of anything evil, by the way. 00:02:16.252 --> 00:02:24.652 And so this is going to be an episode where you could very easily clip probably any 60 seconds and turn us into the bad guys, because we're talking about something very difficult. 00:02:25.232 --> 00:02:29.992 But when you take the whole argument, it's like, well, yeah, that's clearly what's actually going on. 00:02:31.652 --> 00:02:37.792 Advocacy is different than incitement, is different than encouragement. 00:02:38.612 --> 00:02:45.612 So one of the things that we do on Stone Choir very frequently, we encourage people to go to church and to read the Bible. 00:02:46.072 --> 00:02:48.812 We exhort people to do the same. 00:02:49.352 --> 00:02:51.932 You might even say that we incite people to do the same. 00:02:52.992 --> 00:02:59.452 And those three words all have slightly different connotations, but at the same time, they're synonyms. 00:03:00.152 --> 00:03:04.792 They are overlapping in some portions and they're separate in others. 00:03:05.172 --> 00:03:11.192 And so when you only use one word, you get all the baggage of the connotation, even if you just want to mean the one thing. 00:03:11.452 --> 00:03:19.632 So I wouldn't typically say that I'm inciting you to read the Bible, but I would say absolutely that I exhort you to read the Bible, even though it's basically synonymous. 00:03:20.332 --> 00:03:30.132 And I realized as I was thinking about the remarks I would give here today, that my prose and my speech is very often what is called in literature turgid. 00:03:30.272 --> 00:03:32.992 It's I go over the top with my synonyms. 00:03:33.032 --> 00:03:34.632 I'll just kind of layer them on. 00:03:34.952 --> 00:03:38.572 I'll say like two or three things that seem like they mean almost exactly the same thing. 00:03:38.912 --> 00:03:40.752 And I realized that this is precisely why. 00:03:41.132 --> 00:03:44.652 It's because when I layer on, I start with the first word, like insight. 00:03:44.892 --> 00:03:48.872 Say I incite, I exhort, and I encourage you to read the Bible. 00:03:50.352 --> 00:03:51.112 It's over the top. 00:03:51.172 --> 00:03:54.892 And I know that some people think I'm a buffoon, I don't understand the English language, and I do that stuff. 00:03:54.992 --> 00:03:56.132 And I'm fine with that. 00:03:56.472 --> 00:04:08.392 The specific reason that I have that very particular weird kind of annoying habit is that by layering different words over each other, you know, you lay down insight, I'm inciting you to read the Bible. 00:04:08.992 --> 00:04:10.632 You have the complete definition of that word. 00:04:11.072 --> 00:04:15.092 And then when I add exhort, well, exhort's off by like 15 degrees. 00:04:15.372 --> 00:04:22.212 So it lays on top of insight and the junction of those is really what's left. 00:04:22.452 --> 00:04:25.652 If you imagine there are different shapes layered on top of each other. 00:04:26.032 --> 00:04:35.032 Once I have insight, exhort and encourage, all layered stacked up on top of each other, there can be bits and pieces of those definitions hanging off the edges. 00:04:35.492 --> 00:04:38.492 And the junction in the center is what I'm actually talking about. 00:04:39.072 --> 00:04:46.052 So that annoying verbal tick seemingly is just me trying to really narrow down what it is that I'm communicating. 00:04:46.592 --> 00:04:50.072 And the reason for that is that words mean things. 00:04:50.092 --> 00:04:54.272 The precision with which we use language is vital to communication. 00:04:54.792 --> 00:05:02.252 And one of the very common things we do on Stone Choir is complain about and try to illustrate how lazy and sloppy people are with words. 00:05:02.732 --> 00:05:07.312 Because if you only say one of those, it leaves peripheral questions. 00:05:07.392 --> 00:05:10.912 If I say, I encourage you to read the Bible, well, how strong is that encouragement? 00:05:11.212 --> 00:05:12.812 It's kind of a take it or leave it thing. 00:05:13.252 --> 00:05:16.652 If I say that I exhort you to read the Bible, that's much more emphatic. 00:05:17.132 --> 00:05:22.252 I'm basically kind of burdening your conscience to some extent, again, depending on context. 00:05:22.272 --> 00:05:27.612 If I say if I exhort you to read the Bible, it's kind of like I'm somewhere between begging and grabbing you by the lapels. 00:05:28.172 --> 00:05:31.952 And if I say that I'm inciting you to read the Bible, well, that's even a slightly different thing. 00:05:31.972 --> 00:05:35.452 But all of them mean that if you listen, you're going to go read the Bible, right? 00:05:36.232 --> 00:05:42.492 So, the different terms that we use are an important part of a conversation. 00:05:42.512 --> 00:05:45.072 And one of the reasons I do it, like I love the English language. 00:05:45.392 --> 00:05:47.672 I love how incredibly rich and deep it is. 00:05:47.972 --> 00:05:51.452 There's a video from an old interview with William F. 00:05:51.472 --> 00:05:56.312 Buckley and a Spanish author named Borges where he says something absolutely wonderful. 00:05:56.332 --> 00:06:03.272 He's a Spanish speaker natively, but he says he prefers writing and speaking in English because it's a much richer language. 00:06:03.832 --> 00:06:08.352 It's funny because Buckley is trying to argue with him and trying to talk about how rich his native language, Spanish, is. 00:06:08.492 --> 00:06:09.372 He's like, no, it's better. 00:06:09.652 --> 00:06:24.992 And a specific point that he makes is that the English language is simultaneously synthesized and derived from Anglo-Saxon language, from Latin via, in some parts, French, and there are dribs and drabs in Greek kind of at the periphery. 00:06:25.492 --> 00:06:28.632 There are multiple ways for a native English speaker to say anything. 00:06:29.272 --> 00:06:38.872 And in some cases, because they're coming from completely different languages, and one of the examples that he gives is the Holy Spirit, which is a Latinate word, it's a very light word, you know, spirits. 00:06:39.612 --> 00:06:40.132 It's light. 00:06:40.192 --> 00:06:44.852 You just kind of instinctively know that there's an ephemerality and a gentility to a spirit. 00:06:45.692 --> 00:06:49.412 Ghost, on the other hand, he describes as a good dark Saxon word. 00:06:49.552 --> 00:06:54.472 When you say the Holy Ghost, it gives a very different impression than the Holy Spirit, even though it's the same thing. 00:06:54.832 --> 00:07:00.072 And so both of those are used in the English language, but you can choose which one you use for emphasis. 00:07:00.912 --> 00:07:08.252 And for me as a native English speaker, one, I'm eternally grateful to God that I know this language natively, because I would never want to learn this mess. 00:07:08.272 --> 00:07:09.112 It's confusing. 00:07:09.452 --> 00:07:16.652 I have tremendous respect for those of you who are English second language speakers who become fluent because this is a mess. 00:07:17.112 --> 00:07:19.852 But it's an incredibly rich mess once you master it. 00:07:19.872 --> 00:07:22.232 So I just kind of got that for free by being born here. 00:07:23.132 --> 00:07:30.052 When we're using various words, it's very easy to mislead by using one and being sloppy about what it means. 00:07:30.772 --> 00:07:38.392 When we are falsely accused of advocating slavery or advocating violence, what they actually mean is incitement. 00:07:38.732 --> 00:07:43.212 And you can always tell that whenever the accusation is leveled that they mean incitement to violence. 00:07:44.092 --> 00:07:53.232 When I say that we are advocating things like slavery, we're talking about it in the sense that the Holy Ghost, one of his names, is advocate. 00:07:53.792 --> 00:07:55.832 The Holy Ghost is our advocate to God. 00:07:56.432 --> 00:07:59.232 If you have an attorney, he is your advocate in the courtroom. 00:07:59.732 --> 00:08:00.892 Well, what does advocate mean? 00:08:01.032 --> 00:08:03.632 To speak for, you know, vocal, advocate. 00:08:03.892 --> 00:08:06.552 It basically means one who speaks for another. 00:08:07.172 --> 00:08:19.792 And so to advocate for a position is not to say, you know, in a specific example of slavery, and we said this in that episode, it was a two-hour Bible study about the subject of slavery. 00:08:20.072 --> 00:08:21.112 And we advocated for it. 00:08:21.252 --> 00:08:29.492 We said, look, slavery has been accused of being a per se sin, of being the greatest evil in the history of the universe until the Nazis. 00:08:30.332 --> 00:08:33.532 And anytime you see slavery, you see absolute wickedness. 00:08:34.132 --> 00:08:38.652 And we advocated for the scriptural position that that is completely false. 00:08:39.292 --> 00:08:42.772 And yet simultaneously, we said that we are not inciting slavery. 00:08:43.092 --> 00:08:45.572 We're not saying that we want anyone to be enslaved. 00:08:45.912 --> 00:08:52.072 It's simply to advocate for a position is to say, the thing that's being said about this is false. 00:08:52.752 --> 00:08:55.912 And so we had advocated for things that are controversial. 00:08:56.572 --> 00:09:10.052 And it's not to be controversial because as we talked about in the recent target selection episode, when Satan's global religion is coming after things and saying this is the great threat, that peaks our attention, that peaks our curiosity. 00:09:10.732 --> 00:09:13.852 What is it that Satan is threatened by in this subject area? 00:09:14.492 --> 00:09:21.052 And so one of the things that Stone Choir exists for is to advocate on behalf of those things when there's a scriptural basis. 00:09:21.332 --> 00:09:26.652 Now, it's not simply rote, defiance of whatever, like I'll always look, you know. 00:09:27.112 --> 00:09:28.992 If slavery were evil, we would say it was evil. 00:09:29.112 --> 00:09:29.772 I don't care. 00:09:29.792 --> 00:09:33.992 I don't have a vested opinion because I'm not trying to incite anything. 00:09:34.272 --> 00:09:38.672 I benefit not whatsoever, not one whit to say these things. 00:09:38.892 --> 00:09:42.532 It's only been to our detriment to advocate for controversial positions. 00:09:42.952 --> 00:09:44.252 And we don't do it to be controversial. 00:09:44.272 --> 00:09:46.312 We do because that's where the fire is. 00:09:46.332 --> 00:09:47.332 That's where the smoke is. 00:09:48.812 --> 00:09:56.752 So today when we're talking about violence, in one very narrow sense, we are going to be advocating for violence in that very specific sense. 00:09:57.392 --> 00:10:05.352 Violence is not, per se, that is in and of itself at all times and in all places evil in this world. 00:10:05.552 --> 00:10:17.452 And we're going to get into the times and places where and in the moral sense that whether violence should exist at all in the universe and what God's nature is and how it relates to that because it's a very complicated question. 00:10:18.092 --> 00:10:24.072 But part of the reason we're doing this lengthy preamble is that we are not inciting any form of violence. 00:10:24.432 --> 00:10:29.472 We would never do that because A, it is, per se, illegal to incite violence. 00:10:30.092 --> 00:10:32.572 It is retarded to incite violence. 00:10:32.912 --> 00:10:33.992 And it's ineffectual. 00:10:34.492 --> 00:10:38.612 To go do something violent and illegal is dumb. 00:10:38.992 --> 00:10:39.832 It's not going to work. 00:10:39.852 --> 00:10:40.832 It's going to backfire. 00:10:41.232 --> 00:10:42.592 And then you're going to go to hell for it. 00:10:43.452 --> 00:10:48.032 You won't find Cordy or me in any situation where any of those things are in play. 00:10:48.172 --> 00:10:48.952 We're not going to be evil. 00:10:48.972 --> 00:10:49.952 We're not going to be stupid. 00:10:49.972 --> 00:10:51.072 And we're not going to be impotent. 00:10:51.632 --> 00:10:58.812 So the notion that we would ever incite violence or incite slavery or anything else, it's just, it's a lie. 00:10:58.932 --> 00:11:06.652 It's a slanderous lie that is a necessary type of defamation to ensure that no one will ever consider any of these subjects. 00:11:07.052 --> 00:11:14.852 In the case of the slavery episode, we made the case that you cannot have the Christian religion without a proper understanding and respect for slavery. 00:11:15.252 --> 00:11:16.832 If you don't remember that, go back and listen. 00:11:16.852 --> 00:11:18.212 I'm not saying something wild. 00:11:18.912 --> 00:11:21.892 We make the case that you cannot have Christianity without slavery. 00:11:22.512 --> 00:11:29.092 And the attack in the world, in the new global religion against these things, is for precisely that reason. 00:11:29.532 --> 00:11:35.952 As soon as they take something off the table that seems very peripheral, it's not even a going issue anymore, so why would we talk about it? 00:11:36.252 --> 00:11:38.032 Well, why does Satan care? 00:11:38.352 --> 00:11:40.112 If it's a dead issue, why does it matter? 00:11:40.512 --> 00:11:52.692 It matters because if you take that off the table, if no one is any longer advocating for that subject in a manner consistent with the Christian religion, Satan can kill Christianity. 00:11:53.412 --> 00:12:01.212 And almost all the polemics, all the apologetics that exist for the last five centuries, don't look at these things because these are new attacks. 00:12:01.612 --> 00:12:11.992 You say very often, a lot of the stuff that's happening today has never happened in the history of the Church, so we don't have good theology sitting on the shelf to say, this is exactly how to deal with this. 00:12:12.212 --> 00:12:13.692 I have some historical example. 00:12:14.052 --> 00:12:18.952 In many cases, you're going to have brand new attacks doing brand new damage to the Christian faith. 00:12:19.252 --> 00:12:36.432 And we're going to give you a few examples here today where if you neglect the thing that seems like a minor peripheral matter, you have undermined the faith months, years, centuries, millennia down the road because you gave up something that was scriptural and godly and Satan doesn't care about any given generation. 00:12:36.772 --> 00:12:41.412 He might just let that lie sit there for a thousand years before he exploits it. 00:12:41.712 --> 00:12:44.572 And sometimes some of his most effective work has been doing that. 00:12:44.952 --> 00:12:49.452 He makes a lie, he puts it in the timeline, he gets everyone to repeat it, and it doesn't seem to do any harm. 00:12:49.852 --> 00:13:00.012 It just sits there quietly, and a thousand years later it's activated because someone else comes along and they derive some new conclusion on top of that lie, on top of that foundation of quicksand. 00:13:00.352 --> 00:13:05.772 And very quickly it's layered up and layered up and layered up, and soon you have a full blown attack on Christianity. 00:13:06.132 --> 00:13:08.932 And it was made possible by that one lie a long time ago. 00:13:09.512 --> 00:13:18.332 So the necessity of advocating for things which are scriptural and godly, and very often go directly to the nature of God himself, are for these reasons. 00:13:18.772 --> 00:13:24.072 Neither coin nor I want to see any violence anywhere, at any time, in any place for any reason. 00:13:24.212 --> 00:13:26.212 That's never a desirable outcome. 00:13:26.912 --> 00:13:30.612 However, we live in a fallen world and violence exists. 00:13:31.012 --> 00:13:44.492 And so in that fallen world where violence exists, where evil exists, all by itself, if Christians, as many are today, concede that all violence is always per se evil, Satan is going to win. 00:13:45.112 --> 00:13:48.952 Because we'll get into this, pacifism is anti-Christian. 00:13:49.332 --> 00:13:51.372 Pacifist Christian is an oxymoron. 00:13:51.392 --> 00:13:52.572 There is no such thing. 00:13:53.052 --> 00:13:59.432 You cannot refuse at all times and all places to ever exert any form of violence against another man. 00:13:59.672 --> 00:14:00.852 That's not Christian. 00:14:01.292 --> 00:14:03.012 And the law always recognizes that. 00:14:03.032 --> 00:14:04.512 That's not a scandalous position. 00:14:04.712 --> 00:14:06.392 We'll get into some of those details as well. 00:14:06.712 --> 00:14:11.112 Because we have to be very precise about what we're saying so that everyone understands. 00:14:11.132 --> 00:14:13.792 Corey and I are not inciting violence. 00:14:14.172 --> 00:14:18.012 And we're not even advocating violence in the sense that, well, now here's a license. 00:14:18.512 --> 00:14:19.932 That's another crucial part of this. 00:14:20.152 --> 00:14:31.832 You know, if we talk about polygyny or slavery or violence, it's not a license for someone to say, oh, I really wanted to do that anyway, and now somebody gave me license to do it, so I'm going to go do something. 00:14:32.012 --> 00:14:32.792 That's BS. 00:14:33.052 --> 00:14:34.492 That's not what you should do with the Bible. 00:14:34.512 --> 00:14:36.332 It's not what you do with anything that you hear. 00:14:36.652 --> 00:14:38.872 It's the exact opposite of our intent. 00:14:39.472 --> 00:14:46.672 The advocacy is very, very narrowly scoped specifically to the case where this is actually scriptural. 00:14:46.952 --> 00:14:52.692 And anyone who is attacking the subject itself per se is evil is actually attacking God. 00:14:52.972 --> 00:14:54.052 And that's our concern. 00:14:54.072 --> 00:14:56.132 That's our principal spiritual concern. 00:14:57.112 --> 00:15:06.392 Additionally, and downstream from that, there are also very real political concerns from men saying, no, there can never possibly be any violence under any circumstances. 00:15:06.912 --> 00:15:13.472 Because as we see in the world, the very same men saying that are simultaneously enacting violence against us. 00:15:14.012 --> 00:15:17.232 They cry piece piece as the bullets whiz past your head. 00:15:17.532 --> 00:15:20.392 And then when you stand back up bloody, they say, calm down. 00:15:20.872 --> 00:15:22.512 We need to have a conversation about this. 00:15:22.752 --> 00:15:23.692 Don't get angry. 00:15:23.972 --> 00:15:24.812 There's no violence. 00:15:25.492 --> 00:15:33.312 That is a ratchet effect like we see everywhere else, where it's a fundamentally dishonest argument coming from people who want to kill us. 00:15:33.992 --> 00:15:36.752 And we have to acknowledge that. 00:15:36.972 --> 00:15:38.912 We can't just pretend that everything's fine. 00:15:39.232 --> 00:15:41.872 No one wants to do any physical harm in the physical world. 00:15:42.452 --> 00:15:43.832 We are physical creatures. 00:15:43.852 --> 00:15:45.172 God has given us our bodies. 00:15:45.772 --> 00:15:47.212 Our lives are not our own. 00:15:47.572 --> 00:15:48.932 They are bought with a price. 00:15:49.352 --> 00:15:55.112 And we have a duty to God, to self and to neighbor, for God's sake, to preserve that which God has given us. 00:15:55.812 --> 00:16:00.592 And there are certain narrow circumstances where violence is necessary. 00:16:01.092 --> 00:16:03.792 And Corey's going to give his legal disclaimers. 00:16:03.812 --> 00:16:04.772 He's an attorney. 00:16:04.952 --> 00:16:06.132 He's a very competent attorney. 00:16:06.152 --> 00:16:06.972 He's a brilliant attorney. 00:16:07.372 --> 00:16:07.952 I'm a layman. 00:16:08.252 --> 00:16:10.092 Neither one is going to give you legal advice. 00:16:10.672 --> 00:16:14.592 But just know that every state, every country, has different ways of treating these things. 00:16:15.092 --> 00:16:17.332 Nothing that we're saying here is legal advice. 00:16:18.092 --> 00:16:18.812 That's obvious. 00:16:19.352 --> 00:16:22.992 You need to talk to an attorney if you want to know what the law is in your area. 00:16:23.532 --> 00:16:26.692 But there are principles that are also involved. 00:16:26.932 --> 00:16:29.172 And the principles are generally held everywhere. 00:16:29.292 --> 00:16:36.432 So we're going to talk about the principles, how they intersect with faith, with scripture, with history, and with reality. 00:16:36.752 --> 00:16:44.132 Because right now, in this moment, this current year, this week, all those things are coming together in one place from all different directions. 00:16:44.552 --> 00:16:51.392 And so this subject was kind of both handed to us and forced upon us by events in the world. 00:16:51.932 --> 00:16:55.992 And it's critical for someone to be speaking about it faithfully. 00:16:56.952 --> 00:17:03.052 At the same time, part of our exhortation to you as listeners is you shouldn't go around talking about violence. 00:17:03.572 --> 00:17:08.572 We're not trying to put this on the table and say, okay, we're going to have a lot of people talking about violence now. 00:17:09.252 --> 00:17:25.072 The premise of Stone Choir episodes is to lay down a library that tries to treat an individual topic in a somewhat complete fashion where we lay out the argument and someone can go back and listen and say, okay, I have a better understanding now of what the moving parts are for this subject. 00:17:25.612 --> 00:17:28.412 That is not trying to make anything a live issue. 00:17:28.432 --> 00:17:41.692 It's just saying that if someone later comes along and tries to say, you know, Bonhoeffer was a really great saint, he was a wonderful Christian, you can point to the episode on Bonhoeffer and say, well, actually, he was a murderous assassin who hated God. 00:17:42.072 --> 00:17:46.772 And the things that he did were motivated by the very same sort of hate that we've seen this week. 00:17:47.212 --> 00:17:51.712 So they're interlocking pieces here, but this isn't the core of the Christian faith. 00:17:52.112 --> 00:17:54.912 It's not the core of what should be discussion or discourse. 00:17:55.632 --> 00:18:06.612 We don't think that, like, this is not, we don't want mentioning this or discussing it to be any sort of paradigm shift, but it's absolutely crucial and vital that there actually be Christians talking about it somewhere. 00:18:07.212 --> 00:18:15.212 And we hope that we can lay this down and offer it to our listeners and to others, say, okay, I now understand the basis for some of these things. 00:18:15.752 --> 00:18:23.472 And what people do with that in their own lives, in other places and other times, should be informed by what God wants above all else. 00:18:24.012 --> 00:18:29.312 And the law, the written law, in the world, will dictate what the consequences will be. 00:18:29.672 --> 00:18:37.292 So, everyone should be obeying the law after they're obeying God and never wishing violence in any circumstance. 00:18:37.892 --> 00:18:40.752 Yet, when it comes, we can't say, no, there's no such thing. 00:18:42.412 --> 00:18:58.452 So, before we turn to violence as a general subject and as a scriptural subject, and as a moral subject, of course, I want to go over it briefly as a legal subject, because, of course, the law is tied up in all of this. 00:18:59.292 --> 00:19:01.772 I am going to go over it from a US perspective. 00:19:01.812 --> 00:19:15.072 Obviously, if you are listening somewhere else in the world, your laws will differ to some degree, perhaps radically in some places, but in the Western world, this is sort of generally how the law works for this. 00:19:15.072 --> 00:19:30.512 There are definitely some nuances, some differences in most European systems, but this is still a general overview of how these moving parts work with regard to violence, with regard to incitement. 00:19:31.592 --> 00:19:38.792 And so the general law in this area, the most important case, and of course, as Woe said, this is not legal advice. 00:19:39.192 --> 00:19:42.592 If you need legal advice in this area, you should speak to an attorney. 00:19:43.852 --> 00:19:46.592 But the most relevant case is Brandenburg v. 00:19:46.632 --> 00:19:53.932 Ohio, which deals with what qualifies as incitement to violence. 00:19:55.552 --> 00:20:02.672 And so in order to qualify some statement, in order for it to qualify as incitement, there are two elements. 00:20:04.372 --> 00:20:13.212 I am going to, of course, simplify this area of the law to some degree because there are other cases that come in and nuance some of this or explain it. 00:20:13.412 --> 00:20:14.832 But this is the general law. 00:20:14.852 --> 00:20:16.012 This is the overview. 00:20:17.092 --> 00:20:17.872 The two elements. 00:20:18.492 --> 00:20:28.572 It must be directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action, and it must be, as the second element, likely to incite or produce such action. 00:20:30.892 --> 00:20:35.252 There are a number of requirements in those two elements, of course. 00:20:35.812 --> 00:20:40.192 And so you should think of it as intent plus likelihood. 00:20:40.492 --> 00:20:50.352 You have to have the intent to produce the lawless action, and it must be likely that what you did will produce such lawless action, imminently, incidentally. 00:20:50.372 --> 00:20:52.892 It can't be 500 years in the future. 00:20:52.912 --> 00:20:55.052 That would not fulfill the imminent requirement. 00:20:57.152 --> 00:21:01.852 So that is the general law with regard to incitement. 00:21:03.232 --> 00:21:18.512 I want to also go over the issue of fighting words, because fighting words are very much related to this area of the law, and obviously they act as a sort of defense if you do something violent in response to them. 00:21:18.532 --> 00:21:20.752 That's essentially how fighting words work in the law. 00:21:21.812 --> 00:21:30.132 But fighting words are words that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. 00:21:30.152 --> 00:21:33.112 Again, that aspect of imminence or immediacy. 00:21:33.132 --> 00:21:35.432 It can't be in some distant future. 00:21:35.972 --> 00:21:41.272 And so someone looks up something you said in the past and comes and beats you up, that doesn't qualify. 00:21:41.292 --> 00:21:43.272 That's not immediate breach of the peace. 00:21:45.192 --> 00:22:01.892 Now, some of you may be thinking, I can think of some naughty words, some inappropriate or words that are unacceptable socially, currently, that would qualify under that general definition, but they don't generally. 00:22:01.912 --> 00:22:02.992 And there's a reason for that. 00:22:04.892 --> 00:22:12.472 A law that prohibits the utterance of certain words would be a prior restraint. 00:22:12.772 --> 00:22:16.832 And prior restraint requires the highest level of scrutiny in our laws. 00:22:16.852 --> 00:22:17.712 That's strict scrutiny. 00:22:17.732 --> 00:22:20.492 I'll go over how that works in a minute just briefly. 00:22:21.512 --> 00:22:28.272 But the reason you cannot do that typically in the law is because it's prior restraint and it is content based. 00:22:28.692 --> 00:22:41.372