Transcript: Episode 0090

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<v SPEAKER_2>Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I am Corey J.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Mahler.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I'm still, whoa.

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<v SPEAKER_3>On today's Stone Choir, we're going to be talking about persecution and perseverance.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We talked last week about loyalty and specifically when loyalty is not due, when duty doesn't attach.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This week, we're not really talking about honor as it's connected to these things.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So we already decided we're going to title this one, persecution and perseverance, because as we look at the state of the church, as we look at the state of the world, as we look at the state of many of our lives, it's clear that there is a persecution that is taking place in isolated areas.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And more broadly, there's persecution at large that we're collectively facing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And at the largest scale, there's persecution that's been going on for as long as there's been a church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so today, we're going to be focusing very heavily on Scripture, on looking at the places where persecution occurs.

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<v SPEAKER_3>From what quarters does that persecution come?

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then how do Christians persevere?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Not only in the faith, but simply, well, it is persevering in the faith, but remaining in the faith means also persevering in the moment.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So it's not simply a question of saying the Lord's Prayer and confessing the creeds.

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<v SPEAKER_3>However you want to specifically define maintaining your faith, draw the line wherever you want.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There's more to perseverance than that, because to some degree, it's easy for that to be lip service.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The actual perseverance is continuing to show up, even when it doesn't look like it has anything to do with Christianity.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So we're going to talk today about the Old Testament, the New Testament, touch a little bit on history and the Church, but overall, the point that we want to make here today is not to bury the lead.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I think we all have a habit.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I certainly in the past have had a habit, which I was taught, of reading the Bible as a collection of stories.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You have these old guys in the olden times doing olden things in isolated, culturally specific places and circumstances.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And yes, we should emulate some tiny portion of whatever they did right, and we should certainly condemn whatever they did wrong.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the Bible tells us what those are most of the time.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But we don't look at them as human beings.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Over the last year especially, as I read the prophets and the things that happened to them, I see them much more as men.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I see them as guys who had a really miserable job.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I read between the lines.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I put myself in the shoes of one of those prophets.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Not that I think I'm a prophet, but like having been abused for some time, those things stand out to me a little more.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You know, we all get sensitive to whatever crap has happened to you.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You tend to be a little more sensitive when it pops up in whatever circumstances.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so, when I see someone who is sent by God to speak to people and they try to kill him and he runs away and God says, and you have to go back, and the prophet says, no, they're going to kill me.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They hate me.

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<v SPEAKER_3>God says, yeah, just go do it anyway.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You see that pattern happen over and over again.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I have begun to have a great deal more empathy for the man sitting in a cave or sitting out in the desert or whatever, being fed by ravens.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And it's just, you got to feel for the guy.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I think we don't necessarily look at them even as human beings.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's like, oh, he's a prophet.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so like, that's all he did.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Well, even if his entire life was devoted to prophecy, at least what was revealed of it, he was a man.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He had to eat, he had to sleep.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He was stressed out.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so I was talking to somebody earlier this week about history and I said that I hate how much, I hate generally the opinions of people who spend a ton of time studying history because they make precisely this error.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's not that learning history is bad itself.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's that when you reduce whatever has happened in the past, whether it's in the Bible or Napoleonic Wars, you take your pick, wherever you want to draw your focus historically.

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<v SPEAKER_3>When you collapse it into names and dates and locations on a map and troop counts and whatever, when you make it a numerical calculation that can be put on a spreadsheet and on a timeline, you strip the humanity from those moments.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the problem when people are doing that with historical analysis is that those were human beings.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Regardless of what they're doing, regardless of the moral tenor, regardless of even the outcome, they were men in a place at a time.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They had imperfect knowledge.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They had impure motives.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They were not perfect.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so we try to read back everything that we know from here into a situation where they didn't know all those things.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then the problem with that, besides the fact that when you do that, you no longer actually understand the object you're looking at, to then extrapolate that incomplete, incoherent view of how people behave into our own circumstances, just if flat out fails.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Because you try to map the quantities of troops or the direction or the weather or whatever, and say, well, here's what's going to happen in Ukraine in the winter of 2025, because this happened a hundred years ago.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's the wrong lesson, because you're not looking at the human beings and the stress that they were under, the fact that they were getting no sleep, the fact that their families were starving.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Whatever was going wrong, they were human beings suffering in human ways.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The good, the bad, the victories, the defeats have a human cost internally on every man.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Some things weigh on you, and I think when we look at the suffering and the perseverance and the persecution in the church and in history, we make the same error, and that's the connection.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Whether you're looking at historical events or biblical events, which are the same thing, Scripture is history.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's the oldest account of human history that we have, and it's inspired by God, so it's accurate.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And yet, it's just very frustrating that we look at these things and we just try to...

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's kind of the hermeneutic version of proof texting, just whatever you wanted from one little corner.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You don't look at the prophet who was afraid to go back out and talk to the crowd because they wanted to kill him.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And God said, no, go do it anyway.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Don't worry about it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Over and over again.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Those men had to do something.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They had to persevere.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They were persevering in the faith in a way that at the time was ugly.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It was difficult.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the story that we're trying to convey today is that that's not isolated in history.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That's not olden time stuff.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's not just Bible stuff.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is what the Church looks like in all times and in all places.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Wherever the elect exists, there will be men persecuting the elect.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And it doesn't matter if it was before the Church age or after.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That distinction has its place.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But these were Christians 4,000 years ago, 3,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago and today.

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<v SPEAKER_3>These were all Christians because they all had the faith of Abraham and the promise that God had made.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is important because when you look at who is being persecuted and who is doing the persecution, it's inside the same house.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So we're going to talk about a number of passages in Scripture today that, frankly, until I brought this theme, this idea, to the scriptural passages that I looked up, I had forgotten how much this was there.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I had sort of bought into the view that we're all basically taught that, you know, the persecution in the New Testament, the Old Testament was like, the king was wicked, Ahab was wicked.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so that's political, right?

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<v SPEAKER_3>If the king doing is political, that's not inside the church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Nonsense.

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<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at that story, it was absolutely the church persecuting the church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>In the New Testament, like, oh, well, the Pharisees did it, the Sadducees did it, or the crowds did it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It was the church doing it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It was the people who called themselves believers.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the formation of what we called the church in the first century AD was the separation of those in that moment of those who claimed to be believers, but were not, and those who were, in fact, believers.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And they demonstrated by their perseverance in the faith.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But in the moment, in those synagogues, in those locations that are described in scripture, and later on in history, what we very clearly find is that the men who were persecuting called themselves believers too.

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<v SPEAKER_3>When Saul stood there and approvingly held the coats of the men who were stoning Stephen to death, he was a believer.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He wasn't a believer in the true God, like that was the division.

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<v SPEAKER_3>But he was there for the Church of his day.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That was an official, not formal, but it was very much a proceeding of Church discipline to stone that man to death because he had blasphemed, because he said he saw the Son of God in heaven.

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<v SPEAKER_3>After incidentally having preached a sermon, where he described every evil thing the Jews had done for a thousand years, up to murdering Christ, and they murdered him for it on the spot.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That was Church discipline.

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<v SPEAKER_3>He was a martyr, he was a witness, and that was an entirely internal Church matter.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't the state.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't the Romans coming along and being mean to the believers.

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<v SPEAKER_3>No, that was inside.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That was one man saying, I believe in God and I'm here to serve God, doing it to another man.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the message that we want to demonstrate and to make the case for today, because that's mostly what we're seeing now.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We are going to increasingly see persecution in and of the Church by the Church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It will be men who say they are Christians and they're doing this in the name of God who do the bad things, who do the worst things I have ever personally witnessed in my entire life.

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<v SPEAKER_3>I've seen some heinous crap and I've never seen anything remotely like what I've seen from men who call themselves Christians in the last two years.

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<v SPEAKER_3>If we think that the Bible is just old-timey stuff and those are sequestered in the past and they don't actually apply to us as a continuum, we're not going to get the message.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so we're going to go through a bunch of passages today to try to convey as best we can that it's the same picture.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There's not a division of millennia.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There's not a division of anything except for the two sides.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And they're inside the Church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The goats and the sheep are collected together under one roof.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that's how God says things will be until the last day.

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<v SPEAKER_3>When we talk about sheep and goats, we mostly focus on, oh, it's the unbelievers outside the Church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Those are the goats.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Those are the bad people.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They're not morally justified.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Not like us.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then inside the Church, you have all the sheep.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Except that's not remotely true.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The Church is full of goats too.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Not ontologically.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You know, the definition of the Church in one sense is strictly the elect, only the elect.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And then the intermingling can only possibly be undone on Judgment Day.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There are parables about the sower and the reaping.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff and the goats from the sheep is to wait until the day of harvest.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Because to do so beforehand would destroy the whole thing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Why?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Because they're all in the one place.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that's where we are today.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We are all mashed together, wicked, reprobate, demonic men alongside believers, all saying that they confess the same God, all saying that they serve the same Jesus Christ.

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<v SPEAKER_3>If you believe that everyone who says he's Christian is Christian, you're going to be in a situation where you can be destroyed.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And we're doing this episode today because this persecution is rapidly ramping up inside the churches.

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<v SPEAKER_3>There are numerous witch hunts today as we're recording of anyone who has ever said anything nice about Stone Choir.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Like us, hate us, whatever, at least listen and figure out why you hate us.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Most people won't do that.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They will hear that we're bad and then decide it without ever listening.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The funny thing is that when people actually listen, like, what was the big deal?

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<v SPEAKER_3>People say we sound like NPR and they're not wrong.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Like we're mild-mannered, like this is not bomb throwing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We're making scriptural cases for things and it changes people's minds.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We're not playing tricks and that is what is dangerous.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And so this is not an episode about us.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is an episode about the Church, but it's a microcosm.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's typological.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The things that are being done today to some of the people who listen to Stone Choir, even if they don't like us, just having listened is enough for you to be driven from your Church.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And we want to warn you that there are men who want to hurt you for that.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that alone, if you will not publicly disavow us, they want you dead.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that sounds like a very extreme thing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Some people get it and some people don't.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Having been on the other side of that hatred, I promise you it's not reserved for Corey and me.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It is reserved for the truth that we are discussing because it's straight from Scripture.

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<v SPEAKER_3>We're not making anything up.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You have to judge that for yourself.

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<v SPEAKER_3>If we're evil and wicked and twisting everything, figure out how.

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<v SPEAKER_3>How is it that we've twisted Scripture?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Because you need to be able to defend yourself against wolves.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That's a lot of what we talk about here.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Saying this is what a wolf sounds like, this is what a shepherd sounds like.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And if you believe that we're evil, then figure out how we're tricking people because we're doing it really well.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And no one has yet to make a case against that.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The persecution, if we were evil men, then it wouldn't be properly persecution.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It would be justice.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That's of course the framing.

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<v SPEAKER_3>That's always the framing in these circumstances.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Yeah, they deserved it.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Those guys were absolutely evil and wicked and has nothing to do with Jesus whatsoever.

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<v SPEAKER_3>The final calculus is in determining that, which is scriptural and that which is against God.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And that's why we make these cases from scripture.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Either we're lying and we're twisting scripture, or we're saying the same thing that God says, and we're pointing out that there are discontinuities in our churches, in our pastors, in our doctrines, in our lives.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And those discontinuities, if they're there, if we're not liars, then those are caused for repentance.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Go back and listen to the repentance episode.

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<v SPEAKER_3>When you realize that you have been in error, you have sinned, repenting is not feeling bad.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Repenting is turning away from your own wickedness.

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<v SPEAKER_3>It's saying, this thing that I did was disgusting, I rejected, I'm not doing it again.

00:14:48.531 --> 00:14:54.371
<v SPEAKER_3>I am going the opposite direction, and you should come with me, because I don't want you to be evil like I was.

00:14:54.371 --> 00:14:55.511
<v SPEAKER_3>That's repentance.

00:14:55.511 --> 00:15:00.591
<v SPEAKER_3>It's throwing yourself under the bus and throwing yourself on God's mercy, and He'll forgive you.

00:15:00.591 --> 00:15:04.251
<v SPEAKER_3>He will absolutely forgive you when you call on Him for forgiveness.

00:15:04.251 --> 00:15:06.211
<v SPEAKER_3>But repentance is more than feeling bad.

00:15:06.211 --> 00:15:08.471
<v SPEAKER_3>It's about doing the opposite.

00:15:08.471 --> 00:15:18.291
<v SPEAKER_3>When anyone comes along and illustrates that the thing that you were doing yesterday turns out it was bad, nobody ever told you, you didn't know, but it turns out it was actually against what God says.

00:15:18.291 --> 00:15:21.711
<v SPEAKER_3>The Christian response is, I had no idea.

00:15:21.711 --> 00:15:23.791
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't know that eating seed oils would hurt me.

00:15:24.351 --> 00:15:27.331
<v SPEAKER_3>I didn't know that nylon underwear would hurt me.

00:15:27.331 --> 00:15:29.591
<v SPEAKER_3>Now that I know, I'm going to live a different life.

00:15:29.591 --> 00:15:35.131
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, those are trivial examples, but only because they're not moral, but the damage is just the same.

00:15:35.131 --> 00:15:39.411
<v SPEAKER_3>They're these things that are intrinsically either good or they're harmful.

00:15:39.411 --> 00:15:45.731
<v SPEAKER_3>Even if you don't know, you can know nothing about nutrition or clothing or anything, and you can harm yourself by doing the wrong thing.

00:15:45.731 --> 00:15:47.871
<v SPEAKER_3>The same is always true spiritually.

00:15:47.871 --> 00:15:57.431
<v SPEAKER_3>The persecution that's going to occur in the Church and is occurring today is in those places where the Church for decades, not centuries, and that's one of the problems.

00:15:57.431 --> 00:16:00.731
<v SPEAKER_3>Most of these things we're talking about now, they're not century disagreements.

00:16:00.731 --> 00:16:02.731
<v SPEAKER_3>They're decadeal disagreements.

00:16:02.731 --> 00:16:07.251
<v SPEAKER_3>That is itself one of the arguments against this modern wickedness.

00:16:07.251 --> 00:16:17.351
<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at these things that have changed, and you point out that someone who lived 200 years ago is in heaven, even if I agree with him, the persecution is turned on.

00:16:17.351 --> 00:16:19.871
<v SPEAKER_3>They're saying you can't believe what people believe 200 years ago.

00:16:20.331 --> 00:16:23.351
<v SPEAKER_3>You have to believe the new thing or you're going to hell.

00:16:23.351 --> 00:16:35.811
<v SPEAKER_3>All by itself, any reasonable understanding of logic and the very most basic scriptural understanding must lead one to believe that someone who says that is not from God.

00:16:35.811 --> 00:16:36.671
<v SPEAKER_3>God is unchanging.

00:16:36.671 --> 00:16:37.811
<v SPEAKER_3>His word is unchanging.

00:16:37.811 --> 00:16:39.831
<v SPEAKER_3>His commands are unchanging.

00:16:39.831 --> 00:16:43.731
<v SPEAKER_3>The faith inherited is unchanging.

00:16:43.731 --> 00:16:55.231
<v SPEAKER_3>What we have inherited, what we have been taught, cannot be from God if it's fickle, if it's 80 years old, or 50 years old, or 20 years old, as some of these new teachings that are coming in.

00:16:55.231 --> 00:17:01.671
<v SPEAKER_3>There are things that were illegal in the 90s, but today we're told we'll go to hell if we say they're wrong.

00:17:01.671 --> 00:17:13.451
<v SPEAKER_3>These tests have to be applied rationally and out loud and in ways that are going to divide men against each other because we've gotten them wrong and we've done it with a clean conscience.

00:17:13.451 --> 00:17:21.091
<v SPEAKER_3>And so when the Church begins to reorient itself, when believers begin to say, you know what, I was misled.

00:17:21.091 --> 00:17:23.151
<v SPEAKER_3>My grandmother got rid of head coverings.

00:17:23.151 --> 00:17:26.711
<v SPEAKER_3>I now think that I should be covering my head if I'm a woman.

00:17:26.711 --> 00:17:37.651
<v SPEAKER_3>That turn back towards the things that God commands illustrates plainly that the last 60 to 80 years of what has happened in the West is anti-Christian.

00:17:37.651 --> 00:17:40.551
<v SPEAKER_3>And the response is persecution.

00:17:40.551 --> 00:17:43.551
<v SPEAKER_3>It is hatred, bottomless hatred.

00:17:43.551 --> 00:17:49.271
<v SPEAKER_3>It's directed at anyone who will dare to say, the thing that my grandparents believed, I believe too.

00:17:49.271 --> 00:17:51.431
<v SPEAKER_3>Anyone who does that is in danger.

00:17:51.431 --> 00:17:53.091
<v SPEAKER_3>They're not in danger from the state.

00:17:53.091 --> 00:17:54.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Like, that's going on too.

00:17:54.551 --> 00:17:57.991
<v SPEAKER_3>But the point of this episode, that's a minor part of it.

00:17:57.991 --> 00:18:04.651
<v SPEAKER_3>Most of the persecution of the faithful is going to come from those who call themselves faithful.

00:18:04.651 --> 00:18:05.951
<v SPEAKER_3>What better place for it?

00:18:05.951 --> 00:18:09.531
<v SPEAKER_3>And as we're going to illustrate today, it's exactly what Scripture says is going to take place.

00:18:11.811 --> 00:18:26.571
<v SPEAKER_2>When we mention persecution and martyrdom and related matters, some of you undoubtedly will think of possibly the most famous statement by Tertullian, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.

00:18:27.931 --> 00:18:31.411
<v SPEAKER_2>But is that statement actually true?

00:18:31.411 --> 00:18:37.251
<v SPEAKER_2>And similar to some degree to the answer one must give to the question, is baptism necessary?

00:18:38.331 --> 00:18:40.971
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer is yes, but no.

00:18:42.851 --> 00:18:51.891
<v SPEAKER_2>And the reason for that is that are martyrs necessary in a sense, or at very least, are they useful?

00:18:51.891 --> 00:18:55.711
<v SPEAKER_2>Do they help to spread the word, God's truth?

00:18:55.711 --> 00:18:58.291
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer to that obviously is yes.

00:18:58.291 --> 00:19:02.351
<v SPEAKER_2>Woe certainly mentioned several martyrs in his opening.

00:19:02.351 --> 00:19:04.851
<v SPEAKER_2>Stephen, of course, being one of the chief among them.

00:19:06.271 --> 00:19:12.031
<v SPEAKER_2>Did his blood, for instance, help to spread God's word, help to spread God's truth?

00:19:12.031 --> 00:19:14.851
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer to that is yes.

00:19:14.851 --> 00:19:21.731
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, in that case, and to that degree, his blood was indeed a seed of the Church.

00:19:21.731 --> 00:19:24.391
<v SPEAKER_2>It seeded the Church in the world.

00:19:25.831 --> 00:19:30.291
<v SPEAKER_2>But persecution does not always grow the Church.

00:19:30.291 --> 00:19:40.071
<v SPEAKER_2>There are many today, particularly, who will try to argue that where the Church is persecuted in the world, it is growing the most rapidly.

00:19:40.071 --> 00:19:44.571
<v SPEAKER_2>If you look at the actual data, that does not pan out.

00:19:44.571 --> 00:19:52.951
<v SPEAKER_2>But we can also look at history, because we have more than just surveys for the last 20, 30, 40 years.

00:19:52.951 --> 00:19:55.751
<v SPEAKER_2>We have centuries of data on this.

00:19:55.751 --> 00:20:00.071
<v SPEAKER_2>We can look at the history of the Church in various places at various times.

00:20:00.771 --> 00:20:05.111
<v SPEAKER_2>Did persecution cause the Church to grow?

00:20:05.111 --> 00:20:08.691
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer again is yes and no.

00:20:08.691 --> 00:20:16.131
<v SPEAKER_2>Sometimes when the Church was persecuted, for instance, early on in Rome, the Church grew as a result.

00:20:16.131 --> 00:20:21.371
<v SPEAKER_2>Sometimes when the Church was persecuted, the Church was all but eradicated.

00:20:21.371 --> 00:20:22.871
<v SPEAKER_2>There are a number of examples of that.

00:20:22.871 --> 00:20:25.311
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not a one-off thing.

00:20:25.311 --> 00:20:33.291
<v SPEAKER_2>For instance, Anatolia, what we today call Turkey, used to be Christian.

00:20:33.291 --> 00:20:39.051
<v SPEAKER_2>Those Churches in Revelation to which the letters are written are located in Anatolia.

00:20:40.391 --> 00:20:46.671
<v SPEAKER_2>The Christian population today of Turkey is one-fifth of one percent.

00:20:48.071 --> 00:20:55.351
<v SPEAKER_2>The Church there was destroyed by persecution, Muslim persecution in this case, with a great deal of Jewish help.

00:20:56.651 --> 00:21:00.311
<v SPEAKER_2>North Africa used to be Christian.

00:21:00.311 --> 00:21:05.371
<v SPEAKER_2>North Africa is no longer majority Christian.

00:21:05.371 --> 00:21:13.551
<v SPEAKER_2>The Christian communities there were destroyed, largely murdered out of existence by Jews and Muslims.

00:21:14.631 --> 00:21:31.711
<v SPEAKER_2>A more modern example, and one of which we should all undoubtedly at this point be aware, under the Soviet government, under the USSR, under Communism, Christianity in Russia and other parts of Eastern Europe was destroyed.

00:21:31.711 --> 00:21:39.291
<v SPEAKER_2>It was basically eradicated because the Christians were sent off to gulags and worked to death.

00:21:39.291 --> 00:21:54.191
<v SPEAKER_2>Sure, Stalin and others propped up a new form, as it were, of the EO Church in order to use it for propaganda purposes, but Christianity in that part of the world effectively died.

00:21:54.191 --> 00:22:00.891
<v SPEAKER_2>If you actually look at the hard numbers on the things people there believe and do, they are not Christian.

00:22:00.891 --> 00:22:07.051
<v SPEAKER_2>It does not matter if they claim membership in the EO Church.

00:22:07.051 --> 00:22:09.831
<v SPEAKER_2>That's one of the central points that we're making.

00:22:09.831 --> 00:22:15.971
<v SPEAKER_2>Just because someone claims membership in a church doesn't mean he's a sheep.

00:22:15.971 --> 00:22:24.971
<v SPEAKER_2>In the case of the East, the former Eastern churches, it may be that he simply doesn't believe anything about Christianity.

00:22:24.971 --> 00:22:36.531
<v SPEAKER_2>In our case here today, many of those who actually are persecutors of the saints will claim to believe in many of the things that Christianity advances.

00:22:36.531 --> 00:22:39.611
<v SPEAKER_2>They may very well recite the creeds.

00:22:39.611 --> 00:22:42.731
<v SPEAKER_2>They may very well say that Christ is Lord.

00:22:42.731 --> 00:22:51.911
<v SPEAKER_2>But if you actually look at the things that they ultimately believe and the things that they do in their lives, it is very clear that they are not sheep.

00:22:51.911 --> 00:22:56.431
<v SPEAKER_2>They are goats, because they will have a different God.

00:22:56.431 --> 00:23:02.571
<v SPEAKER_2>It will not be blasphemy against Christ that is the thing they detest most severely.

00:23:02.571 --> 00:23:08.491
<v SPEAKER_2>It will be some other idol, blasphemy against which will be the most important thing in their life.

00:23:08.491 --> 00:23:11.731
<v SPEAKER_2>That is the thing over which they will be willing to murder you.

00:23:13.571 --> 00:23:21.751
<v SPEAKER_2>When is the last time you saw one of these supposed Christians advocate for any punishment, for blasphemy?

00:23:21.751 --> 00:23:25.031
<v SPEAKER_2>Don't forget, the punishment in Scripture is a capital punishment.

00:23:25.031 --> 00:23:34.171
<v SPEAKER_2>But when have you seen them advocate for that, for blasphemy against Christ, for blasphemy against the Father, for blasphemy against the Spirit?

00:23:34.171 --> 00:23:35.311
<v SPEAKER_2>Never.

00:23:35.311 --> 00:23:41.291
<v SPEAKER_2>You will never see them advocate for that or argue for that, because that is not their God.

00:23:41.751 --> 00:23:45.631
<v SPEAKER_2>The Lord God is not their God, because they are goats.

00:23:45.631 --> 00:23:47.031
<v SPEAKER_2>They have a different God.

00:23:47.031 --> 00:23:48.411
<v SPEAKER_2>They have idols.

00:23:49.671 --> 00:24:02.671
<v SPEAKER_2>They are the ones who are going to be persecuting the saints, because if Satan can persecute the Church from within the Church, that is going to be a lot more effective than persecuting from without.

00:24:02.671 --> 00:24:06.931
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, of course, that's not to say that persecuting the Church from without is never effective.

00:24:07.411 --> 00:24:10.311
<v SPEAKER_2>I gave three examples where it was very effective.

00:24:11.371 --> 00:24:41.551
<v SPEAKER_2>But it's much easier for Satan to persecute the Church from within, because if he can hollow out the Church and destroy the true faith and leave the Churches intact, that's even better, because then men will believe that they have the Christian faith, because while I attend Church and I listen to this pastor, when they don't actually have the Christian faith, because the Church they attend isn't a Church and the pastor isn't a Christian, that is a much greater victory for Satan.

00:24:41.551 --> 00:24:47.371
<v SPEAKER_2>He would much rather have that victory than simply stamping out the Church entirely.

00:24:47.371 --> 00:24:57.931
<v SPEAKER_2>If you will believe something wicked and at the same time think yourself holy, that is much better than simply having you believe nothing at all.

00:24:57.931 --> 00:25:05.451
<v SPEAKER_2>It is far worse to do something wicked and call it good than simply to do nothing.

00:25:05.451 --> 00:25:08.211
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan wants the greater victory.

00:25:08.211 --> 00:25:15.451
<v SPEAKER_2>And so when it comes to persecution, we cannot believe that persecution is always a good thing for the Church.

00:25:15.451 --> 00:25:17.911
<v SPEAKER_2>We should not seek out persecution.

00:25:19.511 --> 00:25:22.331
<v SPEAKER_2>This is also something that we hear sometimes.

00:25:22.331 --> 00:25:26.811
<v SPEAKER_2>There are those who will say that persecution is good for the Church because the Church grows under persecution.

00:25:26.811 --> 00:25:27.971
<v SPEAKER_2>It's a very similar argument.

00:25:29.411 --> 00:25:32.011
<v SPEAKER_2>And it's an insane argument.

00:25:32.011 --> 00:25:35.791
<v SPEAKER_2>One way we can look at this is with the analogy of warfare.

00:25:37.371 --> 00:25:55.351
<v SPEAKER_2>A nation that is at war, particularly for an extended period of time, and a war that is significant enough to expend a large percentage of the overall efforts of the nation toward it, will make technological advancements, typically speaking, that far outpace those seen in peacetime.

00:25:57.231 --> 00:26:03.051
<v SPEAKER_2>In some ways, and to some degree, there are benefits of being at war.

00:26:03.051 --> 00:26:10.731
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, you could achieve those same results with proper organization and incentives in your society, but that's a topic for another time.

00:26:10.731 --> 00:26:18.671
<v SPEAKER_2>But generally speaking, historically, warfare has driven human progress with regard to technology.

00:26:18.671 --> 00:26:26.991
<v SPEAKER_2>Does that mean we should desire to be at war constantly, ignoring the fact that we more or less have been as the United States?

00:26:26.991 --> 00:26:32.211
<v SPEAKER_2>Not on the grand scale necessary to drive that development necessarily, though.

00:26:32.211 --> 00:26:33.731
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer is no.

00:26:33.731 --> 00:26:41.671
<v SPEAKER_2>We would never say that you should desire to be at war at all times simply because there are these certain benefits.

00:26:43.751 --> 00:26:49.371
<v SPEAKER_2>Similarly, would we say that you would want widespread violence in society?

00:26:49.371 --> 00:26:55.591
<v SPEAKER_2>Well, that gives you a certain mindset to learn to defend yourself, to train properly, to do these various things.

00:26:55.591 --> 00:27:02.571
<v SPEAKER_2>Those may be beneficial, but is the cause, is the impetus worthwhile?

00:27:02.571 --> 00:27:07.051
<v SPEAKER_2>Is the benefit sufficient to warrant the detriment?

00:27:07.051 --> 00:27:07.951
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer is no.

00:27:07.951 --> 00:27:10.711
<v SPEAKER_2>We wouldn't want that either.

00:27:10.711 --> 00:27:13.391
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, you should do some sort of physical training.

00:27:13.391 --> 00:27:22.151
<v SPEAKER_2>I am a strong advocate, a staunch advocate for taking some sort of martial arts, whether it is Hima or Japanese.

00:27:22.211 --> 00:27:24.151
<v SPEAKER_2>Those are basically my two preferences.

00:27:24.151 --> 00:27:26.611
<v SPEAKER_2>Whichever one you happen to take, I advocate for that.

00:27:26.611 --> 00:27:28.931
<v SPEAKER_2>That's a good thing.

00:27:28.931 --> 00:27:32.511
<v SPEAKER_2>But do we need to be at war in order to train men in that way?

00:27:32.511 --> 00:27:34.611
<v SPEAKER_2>The answer is no.

00:27:34.611 --> 00:27:37.531
<v SPEAKER_2>The same thing is true with regard to the Church.

00:27:37.531 --> 00:27:41.391
<v SPEAKER_2>We do not want the Church to be persecuted.

00:27:41.391 --> 00:28:07.051
<v SPEAKER_2>It is a blessing from God to live in a time of minimal or even no persecution and peace, just because there are some countervailing concerns and you have to structure things in order to account for those, does not mean that you say you don't want the blessing, that you seek persecution, that you seek warfare, that you seek these bad things, these things that are bad in themselves.

00:28:08.271 --> 00:28:12.271
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, persecution in this life is going to come.

00:28:12.271 --> 00:28:21.091
<v SPEAKER_2>And depending on how broadly you want to define or describe persecution, there are different sorts of persecution.

00:28:21.091 --> 00:28:29.791
<v SPEAKER_2>There's the personal or the internal, which we usually would call temptation instead, but it is a form of persecution, really.

00:28:29.791 --> 00:28:33.791
<v SPEAKER_2>But in this episode, we're speaking of persecution on the grander scale.

00:28:33.791 --> 00:28:51.671
<v SPEAKER_2>And so that's persecution from the world, really, because those who are in the church in particular, but also those who are without the church, are acting on behalf of the world and on behalf of Satan in persecuting the church.

00:28:51.671 --> 00:29:13.891
<v SPEAKER_2>But even if we lived in a restored Christendom, even if we lived in a thoroughly Christian society in which there was no persecution from the world, because the world in this microcosm is structured to basically be the church, to be part of the church uppercase C, you will still face temptation from the flesh.

00:29:13.891 --> 00:29:17.291
<v SPEAKER_2>You will still face temptation from the devil.

00:29:17.291 --> 00:29:27.711
<v SPEAKER_2>You will not be able to escape those things entirely in this life, even if we had a society that was perfectly constructed, perfectly organized and thoroughly Christian.

00:29:27.711 --> 00:29:29.851
<v SPEAKER_2>So we shouldn't long for persecution.

00:29:29.851 --> 00:29:35.071
<v SPEAKER_2>We shouldn't seek out persecution, because it is not good in itself.

00:29:35.851 --> 00:29:42.251
<v SPEAKER_2>There may be good benefits from it, because under persecution, you must persevere, and that's a good thing.

00:29:42.251 --> 00:29:46.551
<v SPEAKER_2>But the perseverance is not going to be absent.

00:29:46.551 --> 00:29:53.011
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not something that will just disappear in your life if there is no persecution from the world and from the goats.

00:29:53.011 --> 00:29:56.371
<v SPEAKER_2>Because again, the temptation will still be there.

00:29:56.371 --> 00:30:02.291
<v SPEAKER_2>As scripture says, temptation must come, but woe to the one by whom it comes, of course.

00:30:02.291 --> 00:30:03.831
<v SPEAKER_2>The same thing is true with persecution.

00:30:04.651 --> 00:30:15.051
<v SPEAKER_2>Persecution will come, but the one who does the persecuting is particularly cursed, is particularly damned for being the persecutor.

00:30:15.051 --> 00:30:22.991
<v SPEAKER_2>So one of the last things you want to be is the goat that is pretending to be a sheep and persecuting the saints in the Church.

00:30:22.991 --> 00:30:30.471
<v SPEAKER_2>If you become that persecutor of the brothers, it would have been far better for you simply never to believe.

00:30:30.471 --> 00:30:36.031
<v SPEAKER_2>Because as it says in scripture, that second state is far worse than the first.

00:30:36.031 --> 00:30:57.191
<v SPEAKER_2>It is better to be an atheist than it is to be a Christian, so called, who is persecuting the actual saints, who doesn't have a true and living faith himself, but simply uses it as sort of a sheepskin coat in order to hide himself among the sheep and cause them harm.

00:30:57.191 --> 00:31:03.251
<v SPEAKER_2>That is a far worse thing to be, and that person will have a far worse eternity because of it.

00:31:04.731 --> 00:31:19.171
<v SPEAKER_3>One of the beatitudes is specifically related to this sort of persecution, and Jesus says that blessed are you when it happens, and that's not remotely contradictory to what Corey just said.

00:31:19.171 --> 00:31:39.271
<v SPEAKER_3>The fact that God blesses us with persecution and with suffering and reviling and being hated and all the depredations of life, those are blessings because God promises that our reward will be great in heaven for having endured them, for having been a persevere under those circumstances.

00:31:39.271 --> 00:31:44.311
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't mean that we should cheerlead it, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should invite it.

00:31:44.311 --> 00:31:46.311
<v SPEAKER_3>And that was Corey's point.

00:31:46.311 --> 00:31:48.611
<v SPEAKER_3>We do not invite evil.

00:31:48.611 --> 00:31:55.931
<v SPEAKER_3>Nevertheless, when we see evil come, we need to recognize that God will use it for his purposes.

00:31:55.931 --> 00:32:07.751
<v SPEAKER_3>Nothing happens that God doesn't permit, and that's a hard thing to understand, especially when it's pointed at you, because some of the things that God permits seem unspeakably evil.

00:32:07.751 --> 00:32:17.931
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's one of the great struggles that people have, especially when they're weak in their faith, earlier in their faith, and they're confronted with the worst thing that's ever happened to you in your life.

00:32:17.931 --> 00:32:19.751
<v SPEAKER_3>How did God let that happen?

00:32:19.751 --> 00:32:22.591
<v SPEAKER_3>How can a loving God let this happen?

00:32:22.591 --> 00:32:33.651
<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at the preaching of Jesus, he makes clear that the fallen world is not his fault, but he uses the fallen world for his glory.

00:32:33.651 --> 00:32:39.511
<v SPEAKER_3>And sometimes the only reason that we can attain is to accept that.

00:32:39.511 --> 00:32:42.371
<v SPEAKER_3>We can't make sense of it otherwise.

00:32:42.371 --> 00:32:47.631
<v SPEAKER_3>In Luke 6, I'm gonna use the Beatitudes in Luke rather than Matthew, because Matthew gets all the attention.

00:32:47.631 --> 00:32:56.691
<v SPEAKER_3>And I'm thankful I looked at Luke for this, because it actually makes the point that I hope to make here even better than the version that's in Matthew.

00:32:56.691 --> 00:33:05.231
<v SPEAKER_3>Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil on the account of the Son of Man.

00:33:05.231 --> 00:33:15.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven, for so their fathers did to the prophets.

00:33:15.031 --> 00:33:17.911
<v SPEAKER_3>That last phrase is what's missing from Matthew.

00:33:18.671 --> 00:33:21.851
<v SPEAKER_3>For so their fathers did to the prophets.

00:33:21.851 --> 00:33:27.171
<v SPEAKER_3>And this gets back to my point at the beginning and then the overall essence of this episode.

00:33:27.171 --> 00:33:46.011
<v SPEAKER_3>Most people, most preaching, when it talks about the persecution of the saints, when it talks about when you're going to be hated and reviled and excluded on account of the Son of Man, Christians will look to when they had to go to DEI training at work, or they will look to when they were spit on in anti-abortion rally.

00:33:46.551 --> 00:33:55.251
<v SPEAKER_3>And so yes, here's a moment where I was reviled for my faith, where something evil was done to me in the name of evil when I was standing for what was Christian.

00:33:55.251 --> 00:33:57.091
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's absolutely true.

00:33:57.091 --> 00:34:10.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Those moments of persecution are undoubtedly also what God is talking about when he talks about the wickedness in the world being directed at his saints, at the elect, at us.

00:34:10.771 --> 00:34:18.551
<v SPEAKER_3>But in this particular beatitude, when he says, Blessed are you and people hate you, exclude you, revile you, spurn your name as evil.

00:34:18.551 --> 00:34:22.611
<v SPEAKER_3>He finishes by saying, For so their fathers did to the prophets.

00:34:22.611 --> 00:34:23.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Who is they?

00:34:23.091 --> 00:34:24.351
<v SPEAKER_3>Who are their fathers?

00:34:24.351 --> 00:34:26.451
<v SPEAKER_3>He's talking about the Jews.

00:34:26.451 --> 00:34:28.171
<v SPEAKER_3>And who are their fathers?

00:34:28.171 --> 00:34:30.351
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, it was the Jews of history.

00:34:30.351 --> 00:34:31.411
<v SPEAKER_3>What did they do?

00:34:31.411 --> 00:34:33.731
<v SPEAKER_3>They continuously murdered the prophets.

00:34:33.731 --> 00:34:38.751
<v SPEAKER_3>Like I was saying in the beginning, when you look at the lives of the prophets, they were miserable.

00:34:38.751 --> 00:34:43.391
<v SPEAKER_3>They, almost all of them were continuously harangued and hunted.

00:34:43.391 --> 00:34:46.011
<v SPEAKER_3>They were despised and they hated it.

00:34:46.011 --> 00:34:47.651
<v SPEAKER_3>They begged God not to send them.

00:34:47.651 --> 00:34:48.871
<v SPEAKER_3>They didn't want to go.

00:34:48.871 --> 00:34:50.711
<v SPEAKER_3>They complained about it.

00:34:50.711 --> 00:34:52.651
<v SPEAKER_3>They didn't come across as very faithful.

00:34:52.651 --> 00:34:56.851
<v SPEAKER_3>In a lot of cases, if you look at them, like in the best case, they were whiners.

00:34:56.851 --> 00:35:00.591
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, somebody like Jonah went to his death rather than obey God.

00:35:00.651 --> 00:35:01.971
<v SPEAKER_3>He was like, just throw me in the ocean.

00:35:01.971 --> 00:35:03.671
<v SPEAKER_3>I'd rather die than do what he said.

00:35:03.671 --> 00:35:05.871
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want to go be a prophet in Nineveh.

00:35:05.871 --> 00:35:06.991
<v SPEAKER_3>He was a prophet.

00:35:06.991 --> 00:35:07.491
<v SPEAKER_3>God sent him.

00:35:07.491 --> 00:35:09.591
<v SPEAKER_3>God spoke to him personally and said, go do this.

00:35:09.591 --> 00:35:10.751
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want to do that.

00:35:10.751 --> 00:35:11.751
<v SPEAKER_3>And so he died for it.

00:35:11.751 --> 00:35:14.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And God was like, nope, you still got to go.

00:35:14.911 --> 00:35:17.951
<v SPEAKER_3>He raised him from the dead and sent him anyway.

00:35:17.951 --> 00:35:22.131
<v SPEAKER_3>That you know, sometimes the perseverance of the saints, it's not up to you at all.

00:35:22.131 --> 00:35:26.031
<v SPEAKER_3>That's an extreme example of God persevering somebody against their own will.

00:35:26.031 --> 00:35:28.791
<v SPEAKER_3>But that's the point.

00:35:28.791 --> 00:35:33.011
<v SPEAKER_3>God will preserve his faithful for his purposes.

00:35:33.011 --> 00:35:36.291
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's probably going to hurt when he does it.

00:35:36.291 --> 00:35:40.591
<v SPEAKER_3>But when you look at the Old Testament in particular, because that's where the prophets were.

00:35:40.591 --> 00:35:47.831
<v SPEAKER_3>And also in the New Test, when you look at what happened to the apostles, historically, we learn that I think all but one of them was martyred.

00:35:47.831 --> 00:35:49.571
<v SPEAKER_3>They're virtually all killed.

00:35:49.571 --> 00:35:54.451
<v SPEAKER_3>We have every reason to believe that most, if not all, those accounts are accurate because they're very old.

00:35:54.451 --> 00:36:00.091
<v SPEAKER_3>We tend to treat really old stories that aren't specifically recorded in scripture as myth.

00:36:00.091 --> 00:36:01.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Like, oh, what did they know?

00:36:01.091 --> 00:36:03.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Well, they're the closest to the events.

00:36:03.451 --> 00:36:06.831
<v SPEAKER_3>It's what everyone was saying at the time was true, and it was accepted and it was written down.

00:36:07.631 --> 00:36:13.131
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't mean it's absolutely true, but it is by far the best witness we have to those events.

00:36:13.131 --> 00:36:14.251
<v SPEAKER_3>They were killed.

00:36:14.251 --> 00:36:15.711
<v SPEAKER_3>They were all killed.

00:36:15.711 --> 00:36:18.151
<v SPEAKER_3>The prophets, most of them died.

00:36:18.151 --> 00:36:21.151
<v SPEAKER_3>Elijah is a notable example because he didn't die at all.

00:36:21.151 --> 00:36:27.171
<v SPEAKER_3>God whisked him up into heaven and replaced him with somebody who had an equally hard time of things.

00:36:27.171 --> 00:36:32.951
<v SPEAKER_3>The fact that Jesus says this, for so their fathers did to the prophets, tells us two things.

00:36:33.351 --> 00:36:41.491
<v SPEAKER_3>One, for all time, within the group of believers, we have had goats, we have had evil men.

00:36:41.491 --> 00:36:44.731
<v SPEAKER_3>There were good Jews and there were evil Jews.

00:36:44.731 --> 00:36:47.431
<v SPEAKER_3>And however you want to use the term, you can separate Jew from Israel.

00:36:47.431 --> 00:36:48.791
<v SPEAKER_3>We did an whole episode about that.

00:36:49.151 --> 00:36:51.531
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not trying to make a fiddly point there.

00:36:51.531 --> 00:36:56.011
<v SPEAKER_3>The people in those places, there was always some faithful remnant.

00:36:56.011 --> 00:37:08.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes that faithful remnant was down to one guy or a few guys, you know, a hundred prophets being hidden in a cave, while the rest of the prophets, who were also prophets, but they were prophets of Baal, were worshipping Baal.

00:37:08.711 --> 00:37:11.351
<v SPEAKER_3>For Israel, they were doing it for the king.

00:37:11.351 --> 00:37:13.551
<v SPEAKER_3>It was the majority religion.

00:37:13.551 --> 00:37:15.531
<v SPEAKER_3>It was what everybody knew to be true.

00:37:15.531 --> 00:37:16.811
<v SPEAKER_3>It was the official belief.

00:37:16.811 --> 00:37:18.591
<v SPEAKER_3>It was the same belief as from before.

00:37:18.591 --> 00:37:19.831
<v SPEAKER_3>They just, you know, tweaked it a little.

00:37:19.831 --> 00:37:24.831
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, they had Ashur poles and sacrificing bulls to Moloch and all that stuff, but it was still for God.

00:37:24.831 --> 00:37:26.691
<v SPEAKER_3>They were still God's prophets.

00:37:26.691 --> 00:37:28.191
<v SPEAKER_3>That was the deal.

00:37:28.191 --> 00:37:36.271
<v SPEAKER_3>And so the prophets that were being hunted and killed by Jezebel and in all the other examples, they were the bad guys.

00:37:36.271 --> 00:37:43.671
<v SPEAKER_3>They were being hunted by the government because they were evil, because they were set out as outlaws.

00:37:43.671 --> 00:37:58.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And so when Jesus says for so their fathers did to the prophets, he's saying that the sons of Satan, the synagogue of Satan has continuously persecuted the faithful inside the Church, inside the group of the elect.

00:37:58.311 --> 00:38:02.831
<v SPEAKER_3>The gathering of the faithful is always going to have persecutors inside it.

00:38:02.831 --> 00:38:03.831
<v SPEAKER_3>Go read Luke 6.

00:38:03.831 --> 00:38:05.871
<v SPEAKER_3>Go read that passage.

00:38:05.871 --> 00:38:12.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It makes it very clear that this persecution that he's talking about is exclusively inside the Church in the way it's described here.

00:38:12.851 --> 00:38:17.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Obviously it comes from all quarters and in different times and in different places.

00:38:17.451 --> 00:38:19.171
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes it's exclusively outside.

00:38:19.171 --> 00:38:21.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes it's both.

00:38:21.711 --> 00:38:25.531
<v SPEAKER_3>But most of what we see in current year is internal.

00:38:25.931 --> 00:38:29.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And that should not surprise us because it's a film in a prophecy.

00:38:29.911 --> 00:38:43.031
<v SPEAKER_3>A few lines later in the same passage in Luke, Jesus also says, As a counterpoint to blessed are you when people hate you and exclude you and or vile you and spurn your name for the account of the Son of Man.

00:38:43.031 --> 00:38:51.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Jesus then says, Woe to you when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.

00:38:51.031 --> 00:38:55.171
<v SPEAKER_3>Jezebel's prophets, Baal's prophets, everyone spoke well of them.

00:38:55.171 --> 00:38:58.851
<v SPEAKER_3>They were the official spokespersons for Israel.

00:38:58.851 --> 00:39:00.511
<v SPEAKER_3>They were God's prophets.

00:39:00.511 --> 00:39:02.631
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what everyone said.

00:39:02.631 --> 00:39:08.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And Elijah and the others who were persecuted and killed, they were the bad guys.

00:39:08.231 --> 00:39:09.971
<v SPEAKER_3>They were persecuted.

00:39:09.971 --> 00:39:16.251
<v SPEAKER_3>They were persecuted and they were singled out, not because they were evil, but because they were faithful.

00:39:16.251 --> 00:39:18.951
<v SPEAKER_3>And what Jesus is saying is this is what it looks like.

00:39:18.951 --> 00:39:26.711
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're faithful, you're going to be reviled by everyone, including inside the Church in some times, not in all times.

00:39:26.711 --> 00:39:31.591
<v SPEAKER_3>This isn't something that's universally always true in every moment of Church history.

00:39:31.591 --> 00:39:41.511
<v SPEAKER_3>We can look at extensive periods of history where things seem to be, at least from our historical perspective, which, as I said earlier, is admittedly divorced from reality.

00:39:41.511 --> 00:39:46.531
<v SPEAKER_3>But when the accounts are generally good, it's all you have to go on.

00:39:46.531 --> 00:39:50.751
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not always true that all the persecution is inside the Church, but it's often been true.

00:39:51.671 --> 00:40:03.451
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're not Roman Catholic, then you would agree that the Reformation was another one of those moments when people had been hunted and killed for being faithful before the Reformation.

00:40:03.451 --> 00:40:05.151
<v SPEAKER_3>And finally it popped off.

00:40:05.151 --> 00:40:09.211
<v SPEAKER_3>Enough men stood up at the same time and said, no, this is not scriptural.

00:40:09.211 --> 00:40:11.051
<v SPEAKER_3>This is not obedience to God.

00:40:11.051 --> 00:40:15.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And you in Rome are no longer faithful.

00:40:15.231 --> 00:40:17.571
<v SPEAKER_3>We must be faithful.

00:40:17.571 --> 00:40:19.971
<v SPEAKER_3>And the Reformation was not rebellion.

00:40:20.091 --> 00:40:21.711
<v SPEAKER_3>It was like, look, we need to clean house.

00:40:21.711 --> 00:40:23.351
<v SPEAKER_3>This is not what the Church looks like.

00:40:23.351 --> 00:40:27.171
<v SPEAKER_3>And the Roman Catholic Church said, okay, we're going to kill you all.

00:40:27.171 --> 00:40:31.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And so the split came about as a result of persecution.

00:40:31.911 --> 00:40:40.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Single those guys out, hunt them, kill them, call them wicked, say they're rebels, call them all manner of evil filth.

00:40:40.091 --> 00:40:44.671
<v SPEAKER_3>Never say that they're speaking for God, because that begs the question, doesn't it?

00:40:44.671 --> 00:40:48.251
<v SPEAKER_3>If these guys are speaking for God and we're standing against them, what does that make us?

00:40:49.511 --> 00:40:52.571
<v SPEAKER_3>It makes us the rebels, it makes us the evil ones.

00:40:52.571 --> 00:40:59.191
<v SPEAKER_3>So of course, the man who stands up and says, God says this and is faithful, is going to get singled out as a rebel.

00:40:59.191 --> 00:41:01.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Those are the accusations against Jesus.

00:41:01.571 --> 00:41:05.991
<v SPEAKER_3>He points to himself as well, and elsewhere in scripture, it points to him as the prime example.

00:41:05.991 --> 00:41:08.091
<v SPEAKER_3>He is the archetype of this.

00:41:08.091 --> 00:41:10.931
<v SPEAKER_3>He came and told the truth, and they killed him for it.

00:41:10.931 --> 00:41:19.831
<v SPEAKER_3>They didn't kill him for lying, they didn't kill him for rebelling, not against God, but he did rebel against the Church of that day.

00:41:19.831 --> 00:41:30.231
<v SPEAKER_3>He rebelled against the leaders of that day, against the denominational presidents, against the YouTube superstars of the Sadducees.

00:41:30.231 --> 00:41:32.791
<v SPEAKER_3>Those guys were all on the same page.

00:41:32.791 --> 00:41:36.831
<v SPEAKER_3>And then John the Baptist comes, and Jesus comes, and what do you do?

00:41:36.831 --> 00:41:38.871
<v SPEAKER_3>You kill the rabble rousers.

00:41:38.871 --> 00:41:40.811
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the pattern of the Church.

00:41:40.811 --> 00:41:44.731
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you see it happening again today, know that this is not a fluke.

00:41:45.491 --> 00:41:54.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Now, none of this is to intimate that Corey and I are prophets or that you are going to be prophets, except in the most minor sense of saying what God says to some extent as a prophet.

00:41:54.911 --> 00:42:00.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Any pastor who stands in a pulpit and says what God says, that is in a very small way prophetic.

00:42:00.311 --> 00:42:03.191
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not revelatory of anything outside of scripture.

00:42:03.191 --> 00:42:05.611
<v SPEAKER_3>It's speaking the words that God gave.

00:42:05.611 --> 00:42:16.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And the difference between what we think of as a prophet who has been given a new revelation from God, which as far as we know is not happening, you should be incredibly suspicious if anyone comes along and says that.

00:42:16.911 --> 00:42:22.271
<v SPEAKER_3>But when someone comes and says the same thing that God says, that is also in a small way prophetic.

00:42:22.271 --> 00:42:24.951
<v SPEAKER_3>Because that's what the prophets were doing.

00:42:24.951 --> 00:42:27.331
<v SPEAKER_3>God said, go tell them this.

00:42:27.331 --> 00:42:29.131
<v SPEAKER_3>And scripture says the same thing.

00:42:29.131 --> 00:42:33.031
<v SPEAKER_3>It says for us as Christians to go and tell men this.

00:42:33.031 --> 00:42:34.751
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's all the stuff in the Bible.

00:42:34.751 --> 00:42:36.351
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not the stuff that's popular.

00:42:36.351 --> 00:42:38.191
<v SPEAKER_3>It's all of it.

00:42:38.191 --> 00:42:42.411
<v SPEAKER_3>So when Jesus warns, woe to you when all people speak well of you.

00:42:42.991 --> 00:42:45.711
<v SPEAKER_3>For so their fathers did to the false prophets.

00:42:45.711 --> 00:42:47.331
<v SPEAKER_3>Take that to heart.

00:42:47.331 --> 00:42:49.291
<v SPEAKER_3>Who is getting all of the adulation?

00:42:49.291 --> 00:42:51.191
<v SPEAKER_3>Who has said, he's a good man.

00:42:51.191 --> 00:42:53.971
<v SPEAKER_3>He does everything that we want to see in the Church.

00:42:53.971 --> 00:42:57.671
<v SPEAKER_3>The test is how does he respond in these situations?

00:42:57.671 --> 00:43:00.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Does he continue to be a good faithful man?

00:43:00.091 --> 00:43:03.391
<v SPEAKER_3>Does he go fangs out, knives out?

00:43:03.391 --> 00:43:08.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Does every wicked impulse inside him become revealed in that moment?

00:43:08.311 --> 00:43:16.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And he does every depraved thing to try to harm someone who even if they're wrong doesn't deserve that level of malice.

00:43:16.231 --> 00:43:20.311
<v SPEAKER_3>That's why Jesus says, woe to you, not if you get persecuted.

00:43:20.311 --> 00:43:24.931
<v SPEAKER_3>Woe to you if people like you too much under the wrong circumstances.

00:43:24.931 --> 00:43:26.651
<v SPEAKER_3>That is a warning.

00:43:26.651 --> 00:43:29.111
<v SPEAKER_3>Blessed are you when they revile your name.

00:43:29.111 --> 00:43:31.611
<v SPEAKER_3>Woe to you when people speak well of you.

00:43:31.611 --> 00:43:36.251
<v SPEAKER_3>These are not back to back in the text, but they're back to back thematically.

00:43:36.251 --> 00:43:38.211
<v SPEAKER_3>It's two sides of the same coin.

00:43:38.211 --> 00:43:39.311
<v SPEAKER_3>And we don't believe that today.

00:43:39.731 --> 00:43:41.371
<v SPEAKER_3>Nobody believes it.

00:43:41.371 --> 00:43:48.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Everyone knows that when someone is pointed at and shouted down and reviled, that means they're bad.

00:43:48.031 --> 00:43:49.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the only signal we have.

00:43:49.851 --> 00:43:50.851
<v SPEAKER_3>What is that?

00:43:50.851 --> 00:43:53.211
<v SPEAKER_3>That is completely feminine thinking.

00:43:53.211 --> 00:43:54.691
<v SPEAKER_3>That is utterly feminine.

00:43:54.691 --> 00:43:58.031
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's why girls are disqualified from judging these matters.

00:43:58.031 --> 00:44:03.831
<v SPEAKER_3>By God, there is a masculine way to judge things and there's a feminine way to judge things.

00:44:03.831 --> 00:44:06.251
<v SPEAKER_3>And consensus is feminine.

00:44:06.251 --> 00:44:13.971
<v SPEAKER_3>The masculine way is the way where you have a single man standing up and saying, this is a lie and we cannot permit this.

00:44:13.971 --> 00:44:16.931
<v SPEAKER_3>In come what may, he's going to speak the truth.

00:44:16.931 --> 00:44:20.711
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the masculine approach to these circumstances.

00:44:20.711 --> 00:44:23.891
<v SPEAKER_3>The church today is entirely feminized.

00:44:23.891 --> 00:44:25.371
<v SPEAKER_3>Entirely.

00:44:25.371 --> 00:44:30.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Anytime there are any harsh noises or there's any criticism, everyone loses their minds.

00:44:30.971 --> 00:44:32.731
<v SPEAKER_3>Like, oh no, the worst thing in the world has happened.

00:44:32.731 --> 00:44:33.951
<v SPEAKER_3>There's disagreement.

00:44:33.951 --> 00:44:35.471
<v SPEAKER_3>We gotta all agree again.

00:44:35.471 --> 00:44:36.951
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm so upset that there's disagreement.

00:44:37.111 --> 00:44:38.211
<v SPEAKER_3>It's terrible.

00:44:38.211 --> 00:44:39.271
<v SPEAKER_3>Really?

00:44:39.271 --> 00:44:41.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Worry about the fact that someone has pulled the fire alarm.

00:44:41.971 --> 00:44:51.791
<v SPEAKER_3>Because either they're a vandal or a terrorist who's starting an alarm when there's nothing wrong, or they're telling the truth and there's a fire and you have a real problem.

00:44:51.791 --> 00:44:53.831
<v SPEAKER_3>One of those two things is true.

00:44:53.831 --> 00:44:55.171
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't worry about bad feelings.

00:44:55.171 --> 00:45:00.851
<v SPEAKER_3>Worry about whether or not there's a fire or there's a vandal, because you've got one of them on your hands.

00:45:00.851 --> 00:45:08.111
<v SPEAKER_3>This approach to viewing our circumstances and every time and every place, saying this applies to Luther just as much as today.

00:45:08.111 --> 00:45:12.431
<v SPEAKER_3>He stood up and said, hey, I just read the Bible and these guys are saying something different.

00:45:12.431 --> 00:45:14.191
<v SPEAKER_3>We got a problem.

00:45:14.191 --> 00:45:18.291
<v SPEAKER_3>God occasionally does that as a corrective matter.

00:45:18.291 --> 00:45:21.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And Jesus talks about it and the New Testament talks about it.

00:45:21.971 --> 00:45:40.031
<v SPEAKER_3>In 2 Timothy 3, Paul writes, You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me in Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra, which persecutions I endured.

00:45:40.031 --> 00:45:42.111
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet from them all the Lord rescued me.

00:45:42.111 --> 00:45:52.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Indeed, all who desire to live of godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and imposters will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

00:45:52.971 --> 00:46:07.011
<v SPEAKER_3>But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

00:46:07.011 --> 00:46:17.891
<v SPEAKER_3>All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching and for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, that the men of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

00:46:18.771 --> 00:46:25.571
<v SPEAKER_3>So this passage that often gets cited, especially by us talking about how all scripture is breathed out by God, and that's redundant.

00:46:25.571 --> 00:46:27.571
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what scripture means.

00:46:27.571 --> 00:46:34.331
<v SPEAKER_3>That scripture which has that power is the scripture for which you will be persecuted if you believe.

00:46:34.351 --> 00:46:37.671
<v SPEAKER_3>As Paul was persecuted, he was hunted.

00:46:37.671 --> 00:46:43.131
<v SPEAKER_3>He went through the ringer so many times because God sent him and kept sending him.

00:46:43.131 --> 00:46:45.391
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sure many times he probably just wanted to die.

00:46:46.051 --> 00:46:49.551
<v SPEAKER_3>God was like, no, you got to go over here now, you got to go over here now.

00:46:49.551 --> 00:46:56.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Not every Christian is going to have that sort of life, but that example of perseverance is a rule for us too.

00:46:56.911 --> 00:47:01.031
<v SPEAKER_3>You don't get to quit just because it's unpleasant.

00:47:01.031 --> 00:47:04.511
<v SPEAKER_3>The only question that matters is, am I obeying God?

00:47:04.511 --> 00:47:08.791
<v SPEAKER_3>And if we are obeying God, that has to be enough.

00:47:08.791 --> 00:47:17.771
<v SPEAKER_3>If God is merciful, there will be more than that, more than simply obedience to God, and then something good will come from it, and you won't be killed, and you won't be hated.

00:47:17.771 --> 00:47:19.091
<v SPEAKER_3>That would be nice.

00:47:19.091 --> 00:47:20.991
<v SPEAKER_3>I wish that for everyone listening.

00:47:20.991 --> 00:47:22.731
<v SPEAKER_3>But there's no guarantee.

00:47:22.731 --> 00:47:27.511
<v SPEAKER_3>There's only a guarantee that you will prove yourself one way or another when these things come to you.

00:47:27.511 --> 00:47:36.791
<v SPEAKER_3>Because we are being put in a situation today where this persecution that Christ warns about is coming from inside the Church as it always has.

00:47:36.791 --> 00:47:39.611
<v SPEAKER_3>For so their fathers did to the prophets.

00:47:39.611 --> 00:47:41.871
<v SPEAKER_3>For so their fathers did to the false prophets.

00:47:42.471 --> 00:47:46.191
<v SPEAKER_3>One was hating, the other was loving.

00:47:46.191 --> 00:47:48.331
<v SPEAKER_3>Those are the only two sides here.

00:47:48.331 --> 00:47:50.971
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's inside the Church that those things are occurring.

00:47:50.971 --> 00:47:52.211
<v SPEAKER_3>We must believe this.

00:47:52.211 --> 00:47:53.951
<v SPEAKER_3>These are not Bible stories.

00:47:53.951 --> 00:47:58.891
<v SPEAKER_3>This is the pattern of the Christian life, and it will be so until the end of time.

00:47:58.891 --> 00:48:03.971
<v SPEAKER_3>And if we don't take it seriously, that that's not just a Bible story, that's not just about Paul or Elijah.

00:48:03.971 --> 00:48:08.811
<v SPEAKER_3>Like you can turn to just about any page, and you're not going to be very far from one of these stories.

00:48:08.811 --> 00:48:09.871
<v SPEAKER_3>Maybe think about why that is.

00:48:10.551 --> 00:48:13.391
<v SPEAKER_3>Why does God keep showing these examples?

00:48:13.391 --> 00:48:14.811
<v SPEAKER_3>And they're not all perfect examples.

00:48:14.811 --> 00:48:26.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Like Jonah is in some ways, he's not a terrible example, but he's an example of God making his glory manifest in situations where the prophet falls short.

00:48:26.551 --> 00:48:30.411
<v SPEAKER_3>The prophet wants to be unfaithful to the point of death.

00:48:30.411 --> 00:48:32.431
<v SPEAKER_3>The most shameful thing imaginable.

00:48:32.431 --> 00:48:33.951
<v SPEAKER_3>God's like, no, doesn't matter.

00:48:33.951 --> 00:48:35.731
<v SPEAKER_3>You're not done.

00:48:35.731 --> 00:48:38.311
<v SPEAKER_3>We should take that seriously because it applies to us too.

00:48:38.771 --> 00:48:42.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Not that God is going to resurrect us and say, you know, keep going, but that it's going to hurt.

00:48:42.971 --> 00:48:45.111
<v SPEAKER_3>It's going to be miserable.

00:48:45.111 --> 00:48:49.411
<v SPEAKER_3>The reason the storm came about Jonah on the boat was because he was disobeying God.

00:48:49.411 --> 00:48:51.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And that was why he ended the storm and he knew it.

00:48:51.771 --> 00:48:56.071
<v SPEAKER_3>He knew that it was his disobedience to God that jeopardized everyone.

00:48:56.071 --> 00:48:58.271
<v SPEAKER_3>The lesson there is don't disobey God.

00:48:58.271 --> 00:48:59.191
<v SPEAKER_3>Just go.

00:48:59.191 --> 00:49:04.191
<v SPEAKER_3>If he sends you, if he tells you what to do, and he does in Scripture, he tells us all what to do.

00:49:04.191 --> 00:49:07.531
<v SPEAKER_3>To be faithful in small ways and great ways in your life.

00:49:08.071 --> 00:49:11.411
<v SPEAKER_3>You don't have to change what you are doing unless you are not doing anything.

00:49:11.411 --> 00:49:14.711
<v SPEAKER_3>But do the thing that you are doing for God more faithfully.

00:49:14.711 --> 00:49:16.531
<v SPEAKER_3>Do it more steadfastly.

00:49:16.531 --> 00:49:20.851
<v SPEAKER_3>And know that when you do so at some point, you are going to be a threat to the world.

00:49:20.851 --> 00:49:22.991
<v SPEAKER_3>And you are going to be persecuted for it.

00:49:22.991 --> 00:49:24.251
<v SPEAKER_3>You are not going to get a pat on the back.

00:49:24.251 --> 00:49:26.491
<v SPEAKER_3>You are not going to get a parade.

00:49:26.491 --> 00:49:30.451
<v SPEAKER_3>You are going to be hated if you are actually effective for the Kingdom of God.

00:49:30.451 --> 00:49:33.031
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what time it is.

00:49:33.031 --> 00:49:35.991
<v SPEAKER_2>None of this should really be surprising at all to anyone.

00:49:37.151 --> 00:49:48.671
<v SPEAKER_2>Because we see this playing out not only in the church, but I won't say everywhere else, but many other places simply in human society and in our lives.

00:49:48.671 --> 00:50:02.211
<v SPEAKER_2>Because the man who stands up and says, hang on a minute, I think this is wrong, is seldom met with happiness or with approval by the crowd.

00:50:02.211 --> 00:50:14.771
<v SPEAKER_2>Typically speaking, the man who stands up and says, no, you're all wrong is met with stones or the equivalent, depending on the era and the proximity of stones.

00:50:14.771 --> 00:50:19.651
<v SPEAKER_2>In the case of the church, this obviously is more important.

00:50:19.651 --> 00:50:26.551
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a weightier matter because we're ultimately speaking about ultimate things.

00:50:26.551 --> 00:50:39.011
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're in a corporate meeting and you stand up and say, we've been doing this particular thing wrong for 10 years, however long it's been, we need to change.

00:50:39.011 --> 00:50:40.731
<v SPEAKER_2>That could cost a lot of money.

00:50:40.731 --> 00:50:42.131
<v SPEAKER_2>It could cause problems.

00:50:42.131 --> 00:50:44.651
<v SPEAKER_2>It could get some people fired.

00:50:44.651 --> 00:50:48.891
<v SPEAKER_2>But no one's going to hell for that, typically speaking.

00:50:48.891 --> 00:50:51.051
<v SPEAKER_2>Perhaps different if you're planned parenthood.

00:50:52.251 --> 00:51:07.851
<v SPEAKER_2>But when it comes to the Christian faith, if someone stands up and says, know what you believe is false, what you are doing is blasphemous, that's a different matter, because that is a matter of heaven or hell.

00:51:07.851 --> 00:51:16.791
<v SPEAKER_2>And so when it comes to the church, these things are far more important than any of the similar conflicts that we have elsewhere in our lives.

00:51:17.991 --> 00:51:52.931
<v SPEAKER_2>And so to some degree, it should be entirely expected that you're going to see men take a stronger stance and have, let's call it, a stronger reaction when someone says that they are wrong about something with regard to the Christian faith, particularly if it is something that is a matter of salvation, which of course, any error with regard to doctrine or theology can rise to the level of a matter of salvation if you make it part of your core belief, because it becomes an idol then, and you are no longer Christian.

00:51:54.431 --> 00:51:57.331
<v SPEAKER_2>As we have gone over in other episodes.

00:51:58.931 --> 00:52:03.951
<v SPEAKER_2>But the reaction should not be simply to blindly double down.

00:52:03.951 --> 00:52:06.371
<v SPEAKER_2>The reaction should be to look at God's word.

00:52:06.371 --> 00:52:18.651
<v SPEAKER_2>That is why in our episodes and elsewhere, our writings, when we comment on social media, whatever it happens to be, we refer to God's word, because that's what Christians should do.

00:52:19.671 --> 00:52:27.871
<v SPEAKER_2>If someone says, You are wrong on this point, there needs to be a follow-up of here is why.

00:52:27.871 --> 00:52:30.631
<v SPEAKER_2>Not just, you're wrong.

00:52:30.631 --> 00:52:33.111
<v SPEAKER_2>That's not helpful to anyone.

00:52:33.111 --> 00:52:41.631
<v SPEAKER_2>If you say, you believe X, that is incorrect, because here in scripture, it clearly says not X.

00:52:41.631 --> 00:52:44.451
<v SPEAKER_2>That's helpful, because then there can be a discussion.

00:52:44.451 --> 00:52:55.051
<v SPEAKER_2>You can look at what God's word says, and discuss that as supposed Christian brothers, hopefully actual Christian brothers, because there are going to be divisions.

00:52:55.051 --> 00:52:56.951
<v SPEAKER_2>Scripture is very clear on that.

00:52:56.951 --> 00:53:04.791
<v SPEAKER_2>There will be divisions within the Christian church, and those divisions are between actual Christians.

00:53:04.791 --> 00:53:11.551
<v SPEAKER_2>Every time there's a disagreement, it doesn't mean that someone is a goat, and someone's a sheep.

00:53:11.551 --> 00:53:13.591
<v SPEAKER_2>It means that someone is wrong.

00:53:13.591 --> 00:53:18.011
<v SPEAKER_2>It could be you're both wrong, but at least one person is wrong.

00:53:18.011 --> 00:53:21.211
<v SPEAKER_2>Simple laws of logic dictate that.

00:53:21.211 --> 00:53:38.811
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as Christian brothers, we should look to the Word of God, and other helpful writings, insofar as they are true, and help us to interpret the Word of God, discuss the issue, and figure out who is right, or what is right if neither party is right.

00:53:38.811 --> 00:53:52.451
<v SPEAKER_2>The reaction should not be to attempt to destroy men, and drive them from the churches, and label them as apostate, and wicked, and excommunicate them, and do all of these things.

00:53:52.451 --> 00:53:54.631
<v SPEAKER_2>That is not how Christians behave.

00:53:56.911 --> 00:53:59.351
<v SPEAKER_2>Christians are known by their love.

00:53:59.351 --> 00:54:07.091
<v SPEAKER_2>Christians are known by their concern for one another, and notably, love does not just mean a happy, fuzzy feeling.

00:54:07.091 --> 00:54:10.471
<v SPEAKER_2>We went over that at length in previous episodes.

00:54:10.471 --> 00:54:12.151
<v SPEAKER_2>But part of love is speaking the truth.

00:54:12.971 --> 00:54:24.351
<v SPEAKER_2>Love is not permitting a brother to continue in error because it would be uncomfortable or painful to correct that error, and possibly even risk that friendship if it comes to that.

00:54:24.351 --> 00:54:33.331
<v SPEAKER_2>Love is correcting someone when he is in error, particularly about something as important as Christian doctrine, as the Christian faith.

00:54:33.331 --> 00:54:38.431
<v SPEAKER_2>But again, simply because there is disagreement does not mean that one party is a goat.

00:54:39.711 --> 00:54:44.631
<v SPEAKER_2>I will not say the Reformed are all goats, simply because I'm Lutheran.

00:54:44.631 --> 00:54:47.091
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, I disagree with Reformed doctrine.

00:54:47.091 --> 00:54:48.971
<v SPEAKER_2>Well, when I both do.

00:54:48.971 --> 00:54:54.611
<v SPEAKER_2>We do not agree with the Reformed conception of predestination, for instance.

00:54:54.611 --> 00:54:58.491
<v SPEAKER_2>We do not agree with the Reformed conception of the Lord's Supper.

00:54:58.491 --> 00:55:02.151
<v SPEAKER_2>But that doesn't mean that we believe the Reformed are all goats.

00:55:02.151 --> 00:55:05.531
<v SPEAKER_2>We believe they are fellow sheep who are in error.

00:55:05.531 --> 00:55:07.971
<v SPEAKER_2>We're never going to sugarcoat that or paper over it.

00:55:08.431 --> 00:55:12.911
<v SPEAKER_2>We're not going to deny that we believe those doctrines are erroneous.

00:55:12.911 --> 00:55:17.931
<v SPEAKER_2>But we are not going to say, those men are damned because of that.

00:55:17.931 --> 00:55:26.371
<v SPEAKER_2>We can discuss these things with them in a civil and brotherly fashion, which is what Christians are supposed to do.

00:55:26.371 --> 00:55:37.931
<v SPEAKER_2>One of the ways that you can identify these goats who are in the churches instead of fellow sheep who may be in error is how they respond when these issues arise.

00:55:40.031 --> 00:55:46.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Christians do not respond by issuing of fatwa against their enemies.

00:55:46.811 --> 00:55:50.991
<v SPEAKER_2>They don't respond by saying, that man has to be killed.

00:55:50.991 --> 00:55:52.471
<v SPEAKER_2>That man has to be destroyed.

00:55:52.471 --> 00:55:54.571
<v SPEAKER_2>He has to be driven from the church.

00:55:54.571 --> 00:55:57.931
<v SPEAKER_2>They respond by looking at the claim.

00:55:57.931 --> 00:56:00.011
<v SPEAKER_2>What is the man saying?

00:56:00.011 --> 00:56:03.671
<v SPEAKER_2>What is he using to support that claim?

00:56:03.671 --> 00:56:11.631
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, I'm not saying that there is no point at which a man has to be excommunicated or driven from the church for the good of the body.

00:56:11.631 --> 00:56:13.451
<v SPEAKER_2>Obviously, that happens.

00:56:13.451 --> 00:56:27.831
<v SPEAKER_2>If someone remains in persistent and high-handed wicked error over a period of time, will not listen to Christian council, will not yield to the Word of God, then yes, there are measures the body of Christ must take.

00:56:27.831 --> 00:56:33.671
<v SPEAKER_2>And that is entirely within the realm of not only the permissible, but the required.

00:56:33.671 --> 00:56:42.071
<v SPEAKER_2>But if you look at what is happening in the churches today, and has happened many times in history, that is certainly not what is happening at all.

00:56:42.071 --> 00:56:45.431
<v SPEAKER_2>We do not see reasoned discussions.

00:56:45.431 --> 00:56:49.991
<v SPEAKER_2>We do not see arguments founded upon and grounded in the Word of God.

00:56:49.991 --> 00:56:54.051
<v SPEAKER_2>We see things that are founded on idol worship.

00:56:54.051 --> 00:56:56.411
<v SPEAKER_2>We see the post-war consensus.

00:56:56.411 --> 00:57:07.191
<v SPEAKER_2>We see all of these new beliefs that cropped up since the 40s, and now are held out as being core parts of the Christian faith.

00:57:07.191 --> 00:57:10.251
<v SPEAKER_2>Those who are advancing those things are goats.

00:57:10.251 --> 00:57:13.691
<v SPEAKER_2>They are not fellow sheep who are simply in error.

00:57:13.691 --> 00:57:26.111
<v SPEAKER_2>They are believing openly wicked things, demonstrably wicked things, things that have not been believed by any Christian at any point in the entire history of the Church.

00:57:26.111 --> 00:57:31.571
<v SPEAKER_2>And yet supposedly, according to these goats, these things are necessary.

00:57:31.571 --> 00:57:34.531
<v SPEAKER_2>They are required of the Christian.

00:57:34.531 --> 00:57:51.551
<v SPEAKER_2>If anyone tells you that some novel belief is required of the Christian and that you go to hell if you do not believe it, what that person is saying is that everyone who was born before this new belief was discovered, probably in the 1960s, is in hell.

00:57:54.551 --> 00:58:03.291
<v SPEAKER_2>That should strike you as so wicked and absurd that you immediately know that person is a false teacher.

00:58:03.291 --> 00:58:04.971
<v SPEAKER_2>That person is wicked.

00:58:04.971 --> 00:58:08.111
<v SPEAKER_2>He is attempting to do you harm.

00:58:08.111 --> 00:58:12.271
<v SPEAKER_2>There are some sheep who have been misled, and they should be rescued.

00:58:12.271 --> 00:58:16.511
<v SPEAKER_2>But those who are teaching these things, they are false teachers.

00:58:16.511 --> 00:58:18.491
<v SPEAKER_2>You don't rescue wolves.

00:58:18.491 --> 00:58:19.611
<v SPEAKER_2>You destroy wolves.

00:58:20.631 --> 00:58:21.611
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a matter of wisdom.

00:58:21.611 --> 00:58:29.631
<v SPEAKER_2>You have to be able to distinguish between the sheep, the brother who is in error, and the wolf who is seeking to devour.

00:58:30.731 --> 00:58:40.151
<v SPEAKER_2>As has been said by a number of writers in the past, when God sets up a church, Satan opens a synagogue next door.

00:58:40.151 --> 00:58:45.411
<v SPEAKER_2>If only it were so easy, because in reality, he doesn't bother.

00:58:45.411 --> 00:58:52.751
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, we have those unfortunately as well, but typically speaking, he just infiltrates the church.

00:58:52.751 --> 00:58:54.651
<v SPEAKER_2>It's much more effective.

00:58:54.651 --> 00:59:08.491
<v SPEAKER_2>If the attacks come from within the church, that is much more effective at dividing and destroying the body of Christ, than would be an external attack, because sometimes external attacks serve to strengthen unity.

00:59:08.491 --> 00:59:12.151
<v SPEAKER_2>Internal attacks sow division and discord.

00:59:12.151 --> 00:59:13.351
<v SPEAKER_2>That is what Satan wants.

00:59:14.291 --> 00:59:20.411
<v SPEAKER_2>By and large, the world, at this point, doesn't care that much about attacking the church.

00:59:20.411 --> 00:59:22.731
<v SPEAKER_2>Why would it bother?

00:59:22.731 --> 00:59:28.891
<v SPEAKER_2>The church isn't currently doing anything to challenge the wickedness of the world.

00:59:28.891 --> 00:59:33.291
<v SPEAKER_2>Why would the secular authorities care to attack the church?

00:59:33.291 --> 00:59:35.971
<v SPEAKER_2>Why would they enact any persecution?

00:59:35.971 --> 00:59:37.651
<v SPEAKER_2>It would be totally pointless.

00:59:37.651 --> 00:59:39.291
<v SPEAKER_2>It would be a waste of effort for them.

00:59:40.171 --> 00:59:55.011
<v SPEAKER_2>The only time we see the authorities attacking the church is when the authorities are so thoroughly subverted and so extensively wicked that they basically serve as the right arm of Satan himself.

00:59:55.011 --> 00:59:58.711
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, of course, the Soviet example should come to mind.

00:59:58.711 --> 01:00:02.751
<v SPEAKER_2>We don't quite have that today, and they don't care what the churches are doing.

01:00:02.751 --> 01:00:06.071
<v SPEAKER_2>Because again, the churches aren't really doing anything.

01:00:06.071 --> 01:00:12.211
<v SPEAKER_2>The churches, by and large, are parroting all of the things the government itself is saying.

01:00:12.211 --> 01:00:14.811
<v SPEAKER_2>And so the persecution is not external.

01:00:14.811 --> 01:00:21.091
<v SPEAKER_2>The persecution is from within the church by those claiming to be Christian.

01:00:21.091 --> 01:00:26.691
<v SPEAKER_2>And they are doing it, whether they are conscious of that or unconscious of it.

01:00:26.691 --> 01:00:33.131
<v SPEAKER_2>They are doing it to subvert the church and to destroy Christ's body and devour the sheep.

01:00:33.131 --> 01:00:33.871
<v SPEAKER_2>That is their goal.

01:00:36.111 --> 01:00:45.471
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, of course, we know that just because that is their goal, because that's been Satan's goal from the beginning, he is pure malice, as it were.

01:00:45.471 --> 01:00:49.351
<v SPEAKER_2>We know that Christ promises that he will lose none out of his hand.

01:00:49.351 --> 01:00:52.311
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as Christians, we have that comfort.

01:00:52.311 --> 01:00:55.891
<v SPEAKER_2>We know that not one of the elect will fall away.

01:00:55.891 --> 01:00:58.831
<v SPEAKER_2>So, yes, these things are important.

01:00:58.831 --> 01:01:01.011
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, they are a matter of concern.

01:01:01.011 --> 01:01:03.671
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, they are something we have to recognize.

01:01:04.051 --> 01:01:05.731
<v SPEAKER_2>And we have to combat.

01:01:05.731 --> 01:01:13.211
<v SPEAKER_2>But they are not something about which we should worry in that sort of teleological or eschatological sense.

01:01:13.211 --> 01:01:15.911
<v SPEAKER_2>We don't worry about the outcome.

01:01:15.911 --> 01:01:24.211
<v SPEAKER_2>We have a healthy concern for the things here and now, the things that it is our duty to address.

01:01:24.211 --> 01:01:26.551
<v SPEAKER_2>But the outcome belongs to God.

01:01:26.551 --> 01:01:28.511
<v SPEAKER_2>We don't have to worry about that outcome.

01:01:29.051 --> 01:01:36.591
<v SPEAKER_2>And so, just because we're doing an episode on persecution and perseverance doesn't mean you need to worry about the persecution of the Church.

01:01:36.591 --> 01:01:38.751
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not a matter for worrying.

01:01:38.751 --> 01:01:43.571
<v SPEAKER_2>By and large, the recommendation is, Christians should not worry.

01:01:43.571 --> 01:01:49.871
<v SPEAKER_2>There's a fine line there, of course, between having an appropriate level of concern for something and worrying about it.

01:01:49.871 --> 01:01:53.091
<v SPEAKER_2>Because obviously, again, we have to be concerned.

01:01:53.091 --> 01:01:54.371
<v SPEAKER_2>There are wolves.

01:01:54.371 --> 01:01:55.811
<v SPEAKER_2>There are wolves in sheep's clothing.

01:01:56.391 --> 01:01:59.191
<v SPEAKER_2>There are goats mixed in among the sheep.

01:01:59.191 --> 01:02:04.911
<v SPEAKER_2>Particularly as men, we have a duty to recognize these things and to defend against them.

01:02:04.911 --> 01:02:08.511
<v SPEAKER_2>Because as a man, there are other sheep entrusted to your care.

01:02:08.511 --> 01:02:10.671
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're a husband, that's your wife.

01:02:10.671 --> 01:02:12.811
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're a father, that's your children.

01:02:12.811 --> 01:02:15.171
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're a grandfather, that's your children.

01:02:15.171 --> 01:02:19.031
<v SPEAKER_2>And hopefully your grandchildren, whatever number of them happen to be there.

01:02:20.091 --> 01:02:22.931
<v SPEAKER_2>You have very real duties.

01:02:22.931 --> 01:02:24.331
<v SPEAKER_2>You have to take them seriously.

01:02:24.751 --> 01:02:32.031
<v SPEAKER_2>You have to recognize that these problems exist in the churches, not simply as an external threat.

01:02:32.031 --> 01:02:39.351
<v SPEAKER_2>In fact, by and large, there is very little external threat from certain authorities right now at this juncture.

01:02:39.351 --> 01:02:42.451
<v SPEAKER_2>Because again, the government doesn't care.

01:02:42.451 --> 01:02:48.991
<v SPEAKER_2>There's no reason to expend the effort in persecuting the churches when they'll do it to themselves.

01:02:50.411 --> 01:02:53.611
<v SPEAKER_2>If your enemy is making a mistake, don't interrupt him.

01:02:54.971 --> 01:02:58.451
<v SPEAKER_2>Very simple rule, very effective.

01:02:58.451 --> 01:03:00.811
<v SPEAKER_2>The enemy certainly follows it.

01:03:00.811 --> 01:03:07.771
<v SPEAKER_2>But again, as Christian men, we have these duties, and so we have to recognize the reality of what is going on.

01:03:07.771 --> 01:03:12.931
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as men, we have to recognize that this persecution is coming from within the churches.

01:03:12.931 --> 01:03:14.891
<v SPEAKER_2>It's not a matter of the external.

01:03:14.891 --> 01:03:17.371
<v SPEAKER_2>It is a matter of the internal.

01:03:17.371 --> 01:03:30.351
<v SPEAKER_2>And so we have to be able to identify the sheep and identify the goats and particularly identify the wolves and sheep's clothing, because they are there to devour and destroy the sheep.

01:03:30.351 --> 01:03:34.911
<v SPEAKER_2>And if we don't do this, no one else is going to do it.

01:03:34.911 --> 01:03:38.571
<v SPEAKER_2>This persecution will continue, and it will grow.

01:03:40.111 --> 01:03:42.611
<v SPEAKER_2>Look at the state of the churches today.

01:03:42.611 --> 01:03:49.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Very few churches, and certainly no church bodies, can be said to be in good order, or healthy, or doing well.

01:03:49.811 --> 01:03:51.311
<v SPEAKER_2>There are exceptions here and there, of course.

01:03:52.231 --> 01:03:55.691
<v SPEAKER_2>But we should take this as a warning.

01:03:55.691 --> 01:04:00.611
<v SPEAKER_2>It is possible for entire nations to fall away.

01:04:00.611 --> 01:04:02.391
<v SPEAKER_2>We have seen that throughout history.

01:04:02.391 --> 01:04:05.851
<v SPEAKER_2>It is possible for entire regions to be lost.

01:04:05.851 --> 01:04:08.971
<v SPEAKER_2>Anatolia should come to mind.

01:04:08.971 --> 01:04:18.091
<v SPEAKER_2>The persecution from within the church is at least as salient, and often more salient, than the persecution from without the church.

01:04:19.131 --> 01:04:24.251
<v SPEAKER_2>Because the persecution from within the church is often more difficult to recognize.

01:04:24.251 --> 01:04:31.411
<v SPEAKER_2>Because those who are persecuting the sheep, seeking to devour them from within the church, pose as Christians.

01:04:31.411 --> 01:04:39.891
<v SPEAKER_2>And so some will say, well, he says he's a Christian, he confesses the creeds with me, he says all the right words.

01:04:39.891 --> 01:04:44.391
<v SPEAKER_2>But then you have to look at the other things that he says, and you have to look at the things that he does.

01:04:45.591 --> 01:04:52.911
<v SPEAKER_2>Because Christians are going to respond in a certain way, and goats are going to respond in another.

01:04:52.911 --> 01:05:26.091
<v SPEAKER_2>Again, when faced with a disagreement, when faced with a man who says, I don't believe that's right, or I think that's wrong, the sheep will look to the Word of God, the sheep will look to the things where the truth can be found, and assess the comment, assess the contention, assess the argument, the goat will not, the goat will attack, the wolf in particular will attack, because that is Satan acting through his agents.

01:05:26.091 --> 01:05:30.351
<v SPEAKER_2>The goal for the goat, the goal for the wolf is not truth.

01:05:30.351 --> 01:05:33.411
<v SPEAKER_2>The goal for the sheep must always be truth.

01:05:33.411 --> 01:05:44.251
<v SPEAKER_2>And so look carefully at how men respond to these things, the tact that they take, because Christians will act one way, and those who are only pretending will act another.

01:05:45.311 --> 01:06:04.931
<v SPEAKER_3>At the beginning of this year, we did a five-part series beginning with true religion and following on with the Judaizing heresy, the Gnostic heresy, apostasy, and then finishing with Galatians 3.28, where we laid out over the course of those five episodes a lot of what we're saying here in different words.

01:06:04.931 --> 01:06:09.851
<v SPEAKER_3>Namely, you can judge what a man's true religion is by what he'll go to war for.

01:06:10.611 --> 01:06:14.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And this is the proof within the churches today.

01:06:14.771 --> 01:06:25.071
<v SPEAKER_3>Men who will identify things, as Cory was saying, that didn't exist several hundred years ago and say, this is a test of the faith, they are confessing their true faith.

01:06:25.071 --> 01:06:27.731
<v SPEAKER_3>They are not confessing the Christian faith.

01:06:27.731 --> 01:06:31.351
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's the hard part because they're saying, I'm doing it in the name of God.

01:06:31.351 --> 01:06:35.251
<v SPEAKER_3>I had a series of posts yesterday and today on X I want to repeat here.

01:06:35.251 --> 01:06:40.251
<v SPEAKER_3>A lot of people say, oh, well, the podcast has one thing and their timelines on social media say another.

01:06:40.251 --> 01:06:43.071
<v SPEAKER_3>No, they're exactly the same thing.

01:06:43.071 --> 01:06:48.911
<v SPEAKER_3>The only difference is that what will fit in 280 characters is not the same as what will fit in two hours.

01:06:48.911 --> 01:06:55.971
<v SPEAKER_3>And a lot of things that we say on social media are distilled versions of what some of them could be two-hour episodes.

01:06:55.971 --> 01:06:59.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Some of them be 15 or 20-minute episodes because they're so obvious.

01:06:59.451 --> 01:07:08.931
<v SPEAKER_3>But putting in 280 characters is a distillation that is a trap for those who are faithless, for those who do not understand what's going on.

01:07:08.931 --> 01:07:16.151
<v SPEAKER_3>And so the reason that people get so upset about the distillations, where they listen to the episodes and say, well, that was fine, is that they're not thinking clearly.

01:07:16.151 --> 01:07:23.731
<v SPEAKER_3>And one of the reasons for us doing that is to illustrate some of you are not either thinking clearly or not capable of thinking clearly.

01:07:23.731 --> 01:07:28.731
<v SPEAKER_3>And for those of you who are capable and just failing, we exhort you to do better.

01:07:28.731 --> 01:07:29.911
<v SPEAKER_3>So here's an example of that.

01:07:30.311 --> 01:07:33.651
<v SPEAKER_3>That's also a summation of the five episodes from earlier.

01:07:33.651 --> 01:07:38.671
<v SPEAKER_3>First, I posted, You can go to heaven with 18th century beliefs.

01:07:38.671 --> 01:07:42.851
<v SPEAKER_3>This is so obvious that no Christian can actually argue against it.

01:07:42.851 --> 01:07:57.371
<v SPEAKER_3>To say that it's false that you can go to heaven with 18th century beliefs is necessarily to say that there is a new religion that came after the 18th century that they weren't aware of and therefore they couldn't possibly be saved.

01:07:57.371 --> 01:08:08.131
<v SPEAKER_3>After a while, I posted the corollary to this, which is, you can go to heaven while explicitly rejecting every value or belief invented or changed after the 18th century.

01:08:08.131 --> 01:08:10.931
<v SPEAKER_3>So, there the trap is unfolding.

01:08:10.931 --> 01:08:22.091
<v SPEAKER_3>If everyone in the 18th century who is a Christian can be in heaven, then their views which necessarily rejected values and beliefs that were invented later, that's fine.

01:08:22.091 --> 01:08:25.431
<v SPEAKER_3>They can be in heaven rejecting things that came later.

01:08:25.431 --> 01:08:28.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And then I gave the summation today this morning.

01:08:28.231 --> 01:08:41.171
<v SPEAKER_3>You can go to heaven if you reject the equality of races and sexes, if you demand that everyone in your country is a blood relation, if you support making all sexual marital acts outside of these bounds a felony, and so forth.

01:08:41.171 --> 01:08:44.151
<v SPEAKER_3>God rewarded all the generations who did so.

01:08:44.151 --> 01:08:47.891
<v SPEAKER_3>And that's a trap fully springing, because that is the entire fight today.

01:08:47.891 --> 01:08:52.471
<v SPEAKER_3>All of those things are the things that make people lose their minds about the things that we say.

01:08:52.471 --> 01:09:04.711
<v SPEAKER_3>All we're doing is presenting a defense of A, what is scripturally true, B, what is revealed in nature to be true, and C, what every Christian believed until about five minutes ago.

01:09:04.711 --> 01:09:12.991
<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't until these new sins were invented in the last century, or at worst the last two century, that anyone disagreed with the things that we believe.

01:09:12.991 --> 01:09:22.211
<v SPEAKER_3>And yet today there is a long list of men who seek our physical destruction for saying things that are a defense of Christians who have been dead for hundreds of years.

01:09:22.211 --> 01:09:31.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Christians who are in heaven, who are sainted, who have every reason to have their names upheld as perfect examples of the faith lived.

01:09:31.911 --> 01:09:39.631
<v SPEAKER_3>Not that they were perfect men, but that their perfection in Christ was by his blood and it was not contravened by their confession.

01:09:39.631 --> 01:09:48.291
<v SPEAKER_3>Even when their confession was racist, even when their confession was sexist, even when their confession was nationalist, those guys are in heaven too, because you know what?

01:09:48.291 --> 01:09:49.631
<v SPEAKER_3>That was everybody.

01:09:49.631 --> 01:09:57.851
<v SPEAKER_3>None of this crap that has the world attacking Christians today even existed in the 18th century, didn't exist.

01:09:57.851 --> 01:10:04.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It was a follow-on from the Enlightenment, which came before the 18th century, but it hadn't come to its fruition.

01:10:04.851 --> 01:10:08.231
<v SPEAKER_3>Those men are in heaven and you can go to heaven if you agree with them.

01:10:08.231 --> 01:10:09.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It's just that simple.

01:10:09.851 --> 01:10:11.931
<v SPEAKER_3>And see how dividing that is?

01:10:11.931 --> 01:10:13.271
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't take a two-hour episode.

01:10:13.271 --> 01:10:20.131
<v SPEAKER_3>And we've spent a hundred hours in various aspects of Stone Choir, laying out the bits and pieces of that.

01:10:20.131 --> 01:10:25.071
<v SPEAKER_3>But the bottom line is you can go to heaven if you have 18th-century beliefs.

01:10:25.071 --> 01:10:26.511
<v SPEAKER_3>And I picked that for a specific reason.

01:10:26.631 --> 01:10:28.271
<v SPEAKER_3>You could draw the line elsewhere.

01:10:28.271 --> 01:10:32.331
<v SPEAKER_3>17th, 16th, 15th, I could do a whole series of posts that would be redundant.

01:10:32.331 --> 01:10:41.571
<v SPEAKER_3>But I picked the 18th century because it was before slavery was abolished, it was before feminism, all the things that incidentally we've done episodes about.

01:10:41.571 --> 01:10:45.891
<v SPEAKER_3>Before all those things were attacks on Christendom, they were Christians.

01:10:45.891 --> 01:10:55.431
<v SPEAKER_3>They rejected the things that Corey and I reject and that we exhort you to reject in the name of God because it is false, it is wicked, it is a new religion.

01:10:55.431 --> 01:11:02.911
<v SPEAKER_3>And the dividing line that we face today is that the churches are full of men who hold a new religion.

01:11:02.911 --> 01:11:07.571
<v SPEAKER_3>The series at the beginning of this year that I just went over briefly was about that new religion.

01:11:07.571 --> 01:11:13.091
<v SPEAKER_3>You know, the reason we did the episode on Gnosticism and Judaizing is that it's old stuff.

01:11:13.091 --> 01:11:17.231
<v SPEAKER_3>These are ancient heresies that have come roaring back.

01:11:17.231 --> 01:11:20.291
<v SPEAKER_3>Satan is unleashed and he is running the boards right now.

01:11:20.511 --> 01:11:24.831
<v SPEAKER_3>Inside the church is Christ's promise that would occur.

01:11:24.831 --> 01:11:26.751
<v SPEAKER_3>Listen to this in 1 Peter 4.

01:11:26.751 --> 01:11:33.631
<v SPEAKER_3>Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you.

01:11:33.631 --> 01:11:40.691
<v SPEAKER_3>But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

01:11:40.691 --> 01:11:47.651
<v SPEAKER_3>If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

01:11:47.651 --> 01:11:51.871
<v SPEAKER_3>But let none of you suffer as a murder or a thief or an evildoer or a meddler.

01:11:51.871 --> 01:11:58.271
<v SPEAKER_3>Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him be not ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.

01:11:58.271 --> 01:12:01.531
<v SPEAKER_3>For it was time for judgment to begin at the household of God.

01:12:01.531 --> 01:12:07.391
<v SPEAKER_3>And if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

01:12:07.391 --> 01:12:10.691
<v SPEAKER_3>For those who do not obey the gospel of God.

01:12:10.691 --> 01:12:12.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Choke on that, Lutherans.

01:12:12.971 --> 01:12:18.051
<v SPEAKER_3>And if the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

01:12:18.811 --> 01:12:25.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Therefore, let those who suffer according to God's will and trust their souls to a faithful creator while doing good.

01:12:25.771 --> 01:12:27.031
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the gist of it.

01:12:27.031 --> 01:12:33.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Therefore, let those who suffer according to God's will and trust their souls to the faithful creator while doing good.

01:12:33.711 --> 01:12:37.691
<v SPEAKER_3>You show up, you live a Christian life, and you leave the rest to God.

01:12:37.691 --> 01:12:40.271
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're persecuted, give thanks.

01:12:40.271 --> 01:12:42.011
<v SPEAKER_3>Know that it is a blessing.

01:12:42.011 --> 01:12:46.051
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't welcome it as, oh great, I want more persecution in the world.

01:12:46.051 --> 01:12:47.671
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to see more Christians persecuted.

01:12:48.051 --> 01:12:49.771
<v SPEAKER_3>I want them to be blessed like I am.

01:12:49.771 --> 01:12:52.491
<v SPEAKER_3>No, it's absolutely evil.

01:12:52.491 --> 01:13:02.551
<v SPEAKER_3>The point is that God will use the evil of these wicked men inside the Church to glorify his name and to show the division between the sheep and the goats.

01:13:02.551 --> 01:13:11.631
<v SPEAKER_3>Because these matters which today many men think are, eh, I don't really want to have an opinion like this is, some of this stuff is strident and there are no books I can read about this.

01:13:11.631 --> 01:13:14.511
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm not sure I can know what to believe.

01:13:14.511 --> 01:13:15.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Okay, maybe you just need to check out.

01:13:16.251 --> 01:13:19.231
<v SPEAKER_3>But don't hold an opinion one way or another.

01:13:19.231 --> 01:13:23.031
<v SPEAKER_3>These divisions have come because this is the state of the world.

01:13:23.031 --> 01:13:30.171
<v SPEAKER_3>This is, again, this is coming from outside the world, in the outside, in the world, into the Church.

01:13:30.171 --> 01:13:33.311
<v SPEAKER_3>That's a case that we make almost every week.

01:13:33.311 --> 01:13:39.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Satan's new global religion is imported by false prophets inside the Church.

01:13:39.571 --> 01:13:42.051
<v SPEAKER_3>They pick up garbage off the sidewalk.

01:13:42.051 --> 01:13:42.831
<v SPEAKER_3>They bring it in.

01:13:43.351 --> 01:13:44.191
<v SPEAKER_3>They polish it.

01:13:44.191 --> 01:13:46.311
<v SPEAKER_3>They sprinkle some Jesus dust on it.

01:13:46.311 --> 01:13:51.051
<v SPEAKER_3>And they say, look what God said over and over and over again.

01:13:51.051 --> 01:13:54.711
<v SPEAKER_3>And then if you say, well, I don't want this thing you picked off the sidewalk.

01:13:54.711 --> 01:13:59.791
<v SPEAKER_3>I want what the saints had believed for a thousand years, for two thousand years, for three thousand years.

01:13:59.791 --> 01:14:00.971
<v SPEAKER_3>No, no, no, you can't have that.

01:14:00.971 --> 01:14:01.691
<v SPEAKER_3>They had slaves.

01:14:01.691 --> 01:14:02.091
<v SPEAKER_3>They're evil.

01:14:02.091 --> 01:14:02.971
<v SPEAKER_3>They're in hell.

01:14:02.971 --> 01:14:03.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Are they?

01:14:03.511 --> 01:14:04.971
<v SPEAKER_3>Are they all in hell?

01:14:04.971 --> 01:14:06.571
<v SPEAKER_3>And then we're off to the races.

01:14:06.571 --> 01:14:08.671
<v SPEAKER_3>This is the division.

01:14:08.671 --> 01:14:14.651
<v SPEAKER_3>The new global religion is going to persecute inside the church just as it does in the world.

01:14:14.651 --> 01:14:20.511
<v SPEAKER_3>There are all sorts of worldly examples entirely outside the realm of the church where we see persecution.

01:14:20.511 --> 01:14:23.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Those are pretty easy to see in most cases.

01:14:23.091 --> 01:14:24.791
<v SPEAKER_3>COVID was a prime example.

01:14:24.791 --> 01:14:26.251
<v SPEAKER_3>Churches were shuttered.

01:14:26.251 --> 01:14:30.811
<v SPEAKER_3>People had limitations on how many saints could be inside a church.

01:14:30.811 --> 01:14:35.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Churches were banned from singing, from praising God with their mouths.

01:14:35.771 --> 01:14:37.291
<v SPEAKER_3>That was persecution of the saints.

01:14:37.851 --> 01:14:42.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It was wicked and we were tested and almost without fail, we failed.

01:14:42.851 --> 01:14:43.411
<v SPEAKER_3>I failed.

01:14:43.411 --> 01:14:48.011
<v SPEAKER_3>We all failed to see at that time precisely how wicked that was.

01:14:48.011 --> 01:14:48.671
<v SPEAKER_3>What do we do?

01:14:48.671 --> 01:14:49.651
<v SPEAKER_3>We repent.

01:14:49.651 --> 01:14:52.291
<v SPEAKER_3>We say, look at all the ways that we failed when we were tested.

01:14:52.291 --> 01:14:53.631
<v SPEAKER_3>We didn't know.

01:14:53.631 --> 01:14:56.531
<v SPEAKER_3>If you happen to get a perfect score on that test, God bless you.

01:14:56.531 --> 01:14:58.231
<v SPEAKER_3>Being an example to everybody else.

01:14:58.231 --> 01:15:02.791
<v SPEAKER_3>But for the rest of us who got something or everything wrong, it's not the end of the world.

01:15:02.831 --> 01:15:07.291
<v SPEAKER_3>You throw yourself on Christmers, you repent and you don't let it happen again.

01:15:07.291 --> 01:15:13.811
<v SPEAKER_3>You know that that persecution, when it comes, your duty to God exceeds your duty to the law.

01:15:13.811 --> 01:15:16.871
<v SPEAKER_3>Especially when the laws aren't even legal.

01:15:16.871 --> 01:15:22.271
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a time and a place for a Christian to submit to persecution, and there's a time and a place to fight it.

01:15:22.271 --> 01:15:23.511
<v SPEAKER_3>We're not going to get into that today.

01:15:23.511 --> 01:15:24.631
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not the point.

01:15:24.631 --> 01:15:33.391
<v SPEAKER_3>The point is that it's easy when you see it coming from your local stasi, when they're saying what you can and can't do inside your church.

01:15:33.391 --> 01:15:35.671
<v SPEAKER_3>It's easy to see if that's persecution.

01:15:35.671 --> 01:15:54.211
<v SPEAKER_3>It's very much harder when it's your own pastor, when it's your own elders, when it's all the ladies downstairs after church gossiping about something that they heard, and that they don't want to make sure it doesn't happen in their church, because they've been doing things the right way for a long time, and they don't know what's going on, but it's not good.

01:15:54.211 --> 01:15:56.471
<v SPEAKER_3>Scripture is the judge of all of us.

01:15:56.471 --> 01:15:57.731
<v SPEAKER_3>God is the judge of all of us.

01:15:58.711 --> 01:16:08.531
<v SPEAKER_3>These fights have come because this is Satan's last gasp at destroying what is left of Christianity, and he's doing an incredibly good job.

01:16:08.531 --> 01:16:11.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Not because he's that bright, it's because we're that faithless.

01:16:11.911 --> 01:16:17.211
<v SPEAKER_3>We're so lazy that we look to these things that are happening, say, oh, that's great.

01:16:17.211 --> 01:16:22.011
<v SPEAKER_3>Some Jew pops up in the 60s and says, hey, ladies in church, burn your head coverings.

01:16:22.011 --> 01:16:24.251
<v SPEAKER_3>And all the girls in church are like, yeah, we should do that.

01:16:24.251 --> 01:16:25.931
<v SPEAKER_3>We should burn the head coverings.

01:16:25.931 --> 01:16:27.071
<v SPEAKER_3>Down with the patriarchy.

01:16:28.151 --> 01:16:30.331
<v SPEAKER_3>That happened in our churches.

01:16:30.331 --> 01:16:31.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Who was assaulting there?

01:16:31.911 --> 01:16:35.511
<v SPEAKER_3>It was a Jew, it was Satan, and it was the churches themselves.

01:16:35.511 --> 01:16:39.031
<v SPEAKER_3>It was rebellion openly in the churches.

01:16:39.031 --> 01:16:45.391
<v SPEAKER_3>The only way to restore the Christian churches to turn all of that back, to say that the 1960s were wicked.

01:16:45.391 --> 01:16:52.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Anything that is a product of the 1960s, legally, morally, doctrinally, is per se wicked.

01:16:52.711 --> 01:16:54.351
<v SPEAKER_3>None of it is Christian.

01:16:54.351 --> 01:16:59.331
<v SPEAKER_3>You can draw that line without a second thought, and you will be right every single time.

01:17:00.651 --> 01:17:07.691
<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at things this way, when you look at things starkly, and then decide just as it works, you don't have to necessarily agree.

01:17:07.691 --> 01:17:10.731
<v SPEAKER_3>Again, as we often say, I don't just agree with the things that we say.

01:17:10.731 --> 01:17:12.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Use it as a test.

01:17:12.031 --> 01:17:15.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Assume for the sake of argument that we're right.

01:17:15.311 --> 01:17:17.571
<v SPEAKER_3>If so, does it hold up?

01:17:17.571 --> 01:17:22.731
<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at the new doctrines, and you look at the old doctrines, and you look at scripture, which one wins?

01:17:23.971 --> 01:17:25.471
<v SPEAKER_3>Every single time.

01:17:25.471 --> 01:17:28.451
<v SPEAKER_3>The old ways win because they were Christian.

01:17:28.451 --> 01:17:30.371
<v SPEAKER_3>The new ways are rebellion.

01:17:30.371 --> 01:17:33.471
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's not simply that new ways are introduced into the Church.

01:17:33.471 --> 01:17:44.711
<v SPEAKER_3>It's that when men resist, those men are hated, they're shouted down, they're persecuted, they're reviled for the sake of the Son of Man, without exception.

01:17:44.711 --> 01:17:47.751
<v SPEAKER_3>And as I said earlier, it's never glorious.

01:17:47.751 --> 01:17:49.651
<v SPEAKER_3>It's never, oh, what a faithful stand.

01:17:50.371 --> 01:17:57.911
<v SPEAKER_3>It makes me sick today when people point to Martin Luther saying, here I stand, and they thump their chest and say, I'm just like him.

01:17:57.911 --> 01:17:59.391
<v SPEAKER_3>None of these men are just like him.

01:17:59.391 --> 01:18:01.611
<v SPEAKER_3>These are the men who are trying to have him killed.

01:18:01.611 --> 01:18:05.751
<v SPEAKER_3>These are the men who, if they had known who Junker Jorg was, they would have ratted him out.

01:18:05.751 --> 01:18:08.131
<v SPEAKER_3>They would have collected the bounty on his head.

01:18:08.131 --> 01:18:12.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Because doxxing and murdering Christian men is a sacrament.

01:18:12.451 --> 01:18:14.591
<v SPEAKER_3>He is a sacrament in this religion.

01:18:14.591 --> 01:18:16.031
<v SPEAKER_3>You see it everywhere now.

01:18:16.031 --> 01:18:16.931
<v SPEAKER_3>We see it rampant.

01:18:16.931 --> 01:18:19.171
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're not on social media, you're lucky.

01:18:19.171 --> 01:18:25.951
<v SPEAKER_3>Because the volume of wickedness that's been unleashed about these questions is, it's shocking.

01:18:25.951 --> 01:18:29.491
<v SPEAKER_3>It's genuinely shocking how open the malice is.

01:18:29.491 --> 01:18:30.851
<v SPEAKER_3>I knew it was there.

01:18:30.851 --> 01:18:32.751
<v SPEAKER_3>I knew that this wickedness was there.

01:18:32.751 --> 01:18:37.371
<v SPEAKER_3>I have been shocked at how masked off all of these men have become.

01:18:37.371 --> 01:18:50.231
<v SPEAKER_3>Across denominations, across all sorts of historical battle lines, you got all sorts of Baptists and Reformed and Lutheran gathered together at the same trough saying, yes, own these men.

01:18:50.231 --> 01:18:52.171
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a reason for that.

01:18:52.171 --> 01:18:56.411
<v SPEAKER_3>The reason is the same reason that all those guys say Bonhoeffer is a saint.

01:18:56.411 --> 01:19:01.651
<v SPEAKER_3>By the time this episode is out this Friday, the Bonhoeffer movie is going to be released.

01:19:01.651 --> 01:19:05.591
<v SPEAKER_3>Please go listen to that episode so you can share with your friends.

01:19:05.591 --> 01:19:08.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Bonhoeffer is going to be coming up all over the place from now on.

01:19:08.511 --> 01:19:15.831
<v SPEAKER_3>They're reinserting this brand new martyr that was invented in the 21st century because he is necessary for the new global religion.

01:19:15.831 --> 01:19:26.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Pointing to a man who was an assassin, who was a traitor, who was a murderer, who was a blasphemer, who was not remotely Christian, saying yes, this is the kind of Christianity we want.

01:19:26.571 --> 01:19:28.091
<v SPEAKER_3>It's in all of our churches.

01:19:28.091 --> 01:19:32.011
<v SPEAKER_3>You'll find books and pamphlets about Bonhoeffer in your church in Arthex.

01:19:32.011 --> 01:19:34.791
<v SPEAKER_3>In your pastors got books about Bonhoeffer on a shelf.

01:19:34.791 --> 01:19:39.211
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't matter what religion, even what denomination he is, everybody likes Bonhoeffer.

01:19:39.211 --> 01:19:40.551
<v SPEAKER_3>That has a reason.

01:19:40.551 --> 01:19:41.391
<v SPEAKER_3>We already addressed it.

01:19:41.871 --> 01:19:43.831
<v SPEAKER_3>How do we beat that to the punch by over a year?

01:19:43.831 --> 01:19:45.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Because it's obvious.

01:19:45.551 --> 01:19:47.951
<v SPEAKER_3>This is Satan's attack.

01:19:47.951 --> 01:19:54.291
<v SPEAKER_3>This is Satan's persecution of the church, inside the church, and by the church.

01:19:54.291 --> 01:19:56.671
<v SPEAKER_3>There's no escaping for a faithful Christian.

01:19:56.671 --> 01:19:58.191
<v SPEAKER_3>Where do you escape?

01:19:58.191 --> 01:20:03.591
<v SPEAKER_3>If you leave your church and then you just abandon God, that's what Satan wants.

01:20:03.591 --> 01:20:07.251
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're destroyed where you stand, that's what Satan wants to.

01:20:07.831 --> 01:20:13.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Satan wants men devouring each other, hating each other, hating the name of Christ.

01:20:13.571 --> 01:20:15.271
<v SPEAKER_3>These are dark times.

01:20:15.271 --> 01:20:23.531
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sorry to have to deliver a bleak message and strident talk and bad news, but I'm not going to lie to you.

01:20:23.531 --> 01:20:24.891
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't care if you hate me.

01:20:24.891 --> 01:20:26.971
<v SPEAKER_3>I care if you don't know what's going on.

01:20:26.971 --> 01:20:31.711
<v SPEAKER_3>I would rather be the guy that pulled the fire alarm and made loud noises and made you aggravated.

01:20:31.711 --> 01:20:34.531
<v SPEAKER_3>At least you get up out of your chair because the alternative is burning.

01:20:37.031 --> 01:20:48.591
<v SPEAKER_2>Part of the foundation for essentially all of this modern persecution in the Church is the false belief in what is called progress.

01:20:50.291 --> 01:20:56.931
<v SPEAKER_2>This comes from a number of sources, and we will undoubtedly get into this in greater depth in future episodes.

01:20:56.931 --> 01:21:01.371
<v SPEAKER_2>But one salient source is, of course, Darwinism.

01:21:02.971 --> 01:21:09.531
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of Darwinism, whether the classical or the neo-version.

01:21:09.531 --> 01:21:12.631
<v SPEAKER_2>It doesn't really matter, any of the formulations.

01:21:13.651 --> 01:21:23.331
<v SPEAKER_2>But there is this idea that Darwinism means that life progresses, becomes better, greater in some way.

01:21:23.331 --> 01:21:27.751
<v SPEAKER_2>Ignore that that's impossible in a materialist system.

01:21:27.751 --> 01:21:31.091
<v SPEAKER_2>But the argument that these things become better over time.

01:21:31.191 --> 01:21:32.691
<v SPEAKER_2>There's progress.

01:21:32.691 --> 01:21:40.091
<v SPEAKER_2>You go from pond scum to man if you only have enough years, billions of years.

01:21:41.351 --> 01:21:47.111
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, of course, that's absurd, and we took that apart in a previous episode.

01:21:47.111 --> 01:21:54.271
<v SPEAKER_2>But that has been imported into our culture, into our societal consciousness, as it were.

01:21:55.931 --> 01:22:26.031
<v SPEAKER_2>There is a belief among many, most, in fact, that our ancestors were primitive, that they had these quaint, antiquated, sometimes wicked beliefs about things, that they were simply wrong on so many things, and we are right, and we are enlightened, and so we can make it a tenet of our religion that slavery is wrong.

01:22:26.031 --> 01:22:34.551
<v SPEAKER_2>We can make it a tenet of our religion that women are equal to men, and that all men are equal to all other men.

01:22:34.551 --> 01:22:49.391
<v SPEAKER_2>We can make it a tenet of our religion that we should tear down hierarchy because of that equality, that we should tear down distinctions between the sexes because of that equality.

01:22:49.391 --> 01:22:53.051
<v SPEAKER_2>And on and on and on, the list is virtually endless.

01:22:53.051 --> 01:23:00.791
<v SPEAKER_2>It's this belief in progress so-called that undergirds this persecution in the Church.

01:23:00.791 --> 01:23:07.411
<v SPEAKER_2>Because to a man, those engaged in this persecution believe in that sort of progress.

01:23:07.411 --> 01:23:15.671
<v SPEAKER_2>Whether they do it consciously or unconsciously really doesn't matter because it's what they ultimately believe.

01:23:15.671 --> 01:23:26.791
<v SPEAKER_2>It's the same ridiculous notion as believing that our ancestors lived in caves and we are so much more enlightened because we live in houses.

01:23:26.791 --> 01:23:33.211
<v SPEAKER_2>That's false and provably so, not just logically, rationally, but also archaeologically.

01:23:33.211 --> 01:23:35.291
<v SPEAKER_2>We know that's not the case.

01:23:35.291 --> 01:23:47.011
<v SPEAKER_2>But it's these sorts of ridiculous nonsensical beliefs that undergird the worldview that enables these men to engage in this persecution with what passes for a clean conscience.

01:23:47.671 --> 01:23:57.611
<v SPEAKER_2>Of course, in most cases, it's simply so seared that it's impossible to judge whether or not what they're doing is with a clean conscience because they no longer have one effectively.

01:23:59.031 --> 01:24:08.231
<v SPEAKER_2>But another layer of this in the modern world, another thing that feeds into this belief, is that we do in fact see progress of a different kind.

01:24:08.231 --> 01:24:12.531
<v SPEAKER_2>We see technological progress, we see industrial progress.

01:24:12.531 --> 01:24:19.051
<v SPEAKER_2>And so as we record this, I'm holding a pen that could not have been made a thousand years ago.

01:24:19.051 --> 01:24:22.331
<v SPEAKER_2>It has materials in it that didn't exist.

01:24:22.331 --> 01:24:27.271
<v SPEAKER_2>It was made using technologies of which no man had yet conceived.

01:24:27.271 --> 01:24:33.711
<v SPEAKER_2>Even the metallurgy that went into the nib was beyond the reach of men a thousand years ago.

01:24:33.711 --> 01:24:36.591
<v SPEAKER_2>And so technological progress is very much a real thing.

01:24:38.671 --> 01:24:49.651
<v SPEAKER_2>But the men who made these things did not themselves progress, because progress in that sense doesn't exist.

01:24:49.651 --> 01:24:57.531
<v SPEAKER_2>There is no biological progress, so no Darwinian evolution, no progress in that sense.

01:24:57.531 --> 01:25:02.431
<v SPEAKER_2>And there isn't a moral progress as among men.

01:25:02.431 --> 01:25:18.791
<v SPEAKER_2>Conflating technological progress with these other sorts of so-called progress is how you wind up with such a perverse and perverted world view that you can justify to yourself, at least, the sorts of things that these persecutors of the brethren believe.

01:25:18.791 --> 01:25:21.071
<v SPEAKER_2>And so you have to reject that.

01:25:21.071 --> 01:25:31.191
<v SPEAKER_2>Because if you don't reject that conception of progress, you're not addressing the disease, you're attempting to treat only the symptoms, and that never works.

01:25:31.191 --> 01:25:33.551
<v SPEAKER_2>If you're treating symptoms, that's called hospice.

01:25:34.171 --> 01:25:37.691
<v SPEAKER_2>You're alleviating pain while the patient dies.

01:25:37.691 --> 01:25:40.111
<v SPEAKER_2>You are not healing the patient.

01:25:40.111 --> 01:25:43.531
<v SPEAKER_2>You are not addressing the underlying issue.

01:25:45.431 --> 01:25:51.291
<v SPEAKER_2>Our ancestors were not less moral than we are.

01:25:51.291 --> 01:25:59.531
<v SPEAKER_2>In fact, in most cases, they were more moral than we are, at least for those of us who can look back to our ancestors in Christendom.

01:25:59.531 --> 01:26:18.411
<v SPEAKER_2>And even before that, as I've mentioned before, and I may even put the book in the show notes for this episode, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote of the Germanic tribes that marriage was so esteemed among them that adultery was basically unheard of.

01:26:19.691 --> 01:26:23.671
<v SPEAKER_2>Can we say that about our society today?

01:26:23.671 --> 01:26:27.071
<v SPEAKER_2>Can we say that about a single society on the face of this planet today?

01:26:28.971 --> 01:26:36.391
<v SPEAKER_2>And yet, we're supposed to believe that we are more enlightened, more moral, better than our ancestors.

01:26:36.391 --> 01:26:40.871
<v SPEAKER_2>The better angels of our nature is a complete nonsense phrase.

01:26:40.871 --> 01:26:42.411
<v SPEAKER_2>It means nothing.

01:26:42.411 --> 01:26:43.631
<v SPEAKER_2>It's propaganda.

01:26:43.631 --> 01:26:46.711
<v SPEAKER_2>It's meant to deceive you and to mislead you.

01:26:46.711 --> 01:26:49.831
<v SPEAKER_2>We are not getting better over time.

01:26:49.831 --> 01:26:55.551
<v SPEAKER_2>If anything, the world and those who dwell in it are getting worse over time.

01:26:56.651 --> 01:27:02.131
<v SPEAKER_2>And the reason for that is that the fall was not a one-off curse.

01:27:02.131 --> 01:27:06.851
<v SPEAKER_2>The fall is ongoing because the consequences are ongoing.

01:27:06.851 --> 01:27:08.951
<v SPEAKER_2>The curse is ongoing.

01:27:08.951 --> 01:27:13.351
<v SPEAKER_2>Things are degenerating over time.

01:27:13.351 --> 01:27:17.871
<v SPEAKER_2>We can see that from the smallest scale up to the grandest scale.

01:27:17.871 --> 01:27:23.691
<v SPEAKER_2>On the small scale, every time your cells reproduce, there's a small chance you'll get cancer.

01:27:24.731 --> 01:27:27.931
<v SPEAKER_2>And in fact, you have cancer cells in your body right now.

01:27:27.931 --> 01:27:31.071
<v SPEAKER_2>Typically, your body is able to take care of that.

01:27:31.071 --> 01:27:35.211
<v SPEAKER_2>But sometimes it spins out of control, and it kills you.

01:27:35.211 --> 01:27:44.671
<v SPEAKER_2>On the grander scale, all the celestial bodies are slowly but surely floating and spinning out of control.

01:27:45.751 --> 01:27:46.931
<v SPEAKER_2>All of them away from one another.

01:27:46.931 --> 01:27:48.851
<v SPEAKER_2>The moon is floating away from the earth.

01:27:50.571 --> 01:27:54.871
<v SPEAKER_2>Every year, it gets just a little farther.

01:27:54.871 --> 01:27:58.291
<v SPEAKER_2>Everything is degenerating and falling apart.

01:27:59.531 --> 01:28:05.291
<v SPEAKER_2>Now, similar to what Woe said, I'm not telling you these things as cause for despair.

01:28:05.291 --> 01:28:26.991
<v SPEAKER_2>I am telling you this because it is necessary to recognize this reality, to be able to reject the evil worldview that is held by those who are persecuting the sheep, who are persecuting the actual Christians and doing it in the name of Christ, which is sin heaped upon sin.

01:28:26.991 --> 01:28:40.051
<v SPEAKER_2>If you do not recognize their worldview and what undergirds, what supports upon what their worldview is founded, that you cannot accurately and competently respond to it.

01:28:40.051 --> 01:28:44.651
<v SPEAKER_2>You cannot even recognize it because you don't know what it is.

01:28:44.651 --> 01:28:51.191
<v SPEAKER_2>And so you have to know their worldview is founded on this belief of an upward trend.

01:28:51.191 --> 01:28:57.811
<v SPEAKER_2>It's this Pollyanna version of the end of history where everything will eventually reach apotheosis.

01:28:57.811 --> 01:29:02.391
<v SPEAKER_2>And everything will be so good, there will be no conflict, there will be no problems anymore.

01:29:02.391 --> 01:29:05.871
<v SPEAKER_2>We'll live in a veritable paradise of our own making.

01:29:07.591 --> 01:29:09.931
<v SPEAKER_2>Look at the last century.

01:29:09.931 --> 01:29:11.531
<v SPEAKER_2>Are things better off or worse off?

01:29:12.451 --> 01:29:14.971
<v SPEAKER_2>Here at the end than at the beginning.

01:29:16.591 --> 01:29:28.171
<v SPEAKER_2>No man who recognizes the reality, no man who knows the truth of the last 100, 150, 200 years can possibly say we are better off today.

01:29:28.171 --> 01:29:35.251
<v SPEAKER_2>The only way in which we're better off is that we have a handful of material comforts that they didn't have.

01:29:35.251 --> 01:29:38.531
<v SPEAKER_2>But even on that count, are we better off?

01:29:38.531 --> 01:29:39.871
<v SPEAKER_2>Their food didn't poison them.

01:29:40.451 --> 01:29:42.591
<v SPEAKER_2>Their clothing didn't poison them.

01:29:42.591 --> 01:29:45.371
<v SPEAKER_2>They didn't have microplastic in their blood.

01:29:45.371 --> 01:29:46.831
<v SPEAKER_2>And on and on.

01:29:47.851 --> 01:29:50.731
<v SPEAKER_2>In many ways, we aren't even better off materially.

01:29:50.731 --> 01:29:57.771
<v SPEAKER_2>We certainly aren't better off spiritually or culturally, societally, all of the ways that actually matter.

01:29:57.771 --> 01:29:59.991
<v SPEAKER_2>Because ultimately speaking, does material comfort matter?

01:29:59.991 --> 01:30:01.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Of course it does.

01:30:01.811 --> 01:30:05.991
<v SPEAKER_2>The hierarchy of needs to some degree is a very real thing.

01:30:05.991 --> 01:30:11.171
<v SPEAKER_2>If you want to teach a starving man about God, give him a sandwich first.

01:30:11.171 --> 01:30:12.311
<v SPEAKER_2>These things are real.

01:30:12.311 --> 01:30:14.211
<v SPEAKER_2>We cannot ignore them.

01:30:14.211 --> 01:30:18.331
<v SPEAKER_2>But the ultimate things do matter more, because they are in fact ultimate.

01:30:19.531 --> 01:30:43.011
<v SPEAKER_2>And so it is necessary to recognize the perverseness and just the outright folly and incoherence of the worldview of the enemies and adversaries, so that you can respond to the persecution, so that you know why they are persecuting you, so you can know why and how they are justifying the persecution to themselves and to others.

01:30:43.011 --> 01:30:50.711
<v SPEAKER_2>And so reject the idea of progress, not in the sense of saying we can't have better technology, although that's a discussion for another time.

01:30:50.711 --> 01:30:53.251
<v SPEAKER_2>There are some problems there, certainly.

01:30:53.251 --> 01:31:10.771
<v SPEAKER_2>But in this sense that is employed by the enemies, in this sense where we discover new and better morality as we progress, as we ascend this ladder, that should remind you of a certain sort of religion, but it's not the Christian religion.

01:31:10.771 --> 01:31:24.271
<v SPEAKER_2>The Christian religion does not say that mankind is going to progress morally over time, that mankind is going to get better over time, that we're going to construct a paradise here on earth.

01:31:24.271 --> 01:31:30.451
<v SPEAKER_2>Every time humanity has undertaken that sort of project, it has turned into a hell.

01:31:31.471 --> 01:31:32.091
<v SPEAKER_2>That was Babel.

01:31:33.891 --> 01:31:35.171
<v SPEAKER_2>That was Communism.

01:31:36.811 --> 01:31:40.711
<v SPEAKER_2>That's every commune you've ever heard of and every cult.

01:31:40.711 --> 01:31:43.311
<v SPEAKER_2>It always ends poorly.

01:31:43.311 --> 01:31:47.571
<v SPEAKER_2>It is always worse than the starting conditions.

01:31:47.571 --> 01:31:50.611
<v SPEAKER_2>That's the same thing these men are attempting to do.

01:31:50.611 --> 01:31:54.951
<v SPEAKER_2>That's why you see these men supporting mass so-called migration.

01:31:54.951 --> 01:31:56.911
<v SPEAKER_2>They're rebuilding Babel.

01:31:56.911 --> 01:31:59.371
<v SPEAKER_2>Satan is attempting the same thing again.

01:31:59.371 --> 01:32:00.651
<v SPEAKER_2>Many centuries removed.

01:32:02.091 --> 01:32:04.351
<v SPEAKER_2>It's why you see them advocate against slavery.

01:32:04.351 --> 01:32:07.131
<v SPEAKER_2>We can't possibly have a hierarchy.

01:32:07.131 --> 01:32:08.691
<v SPEAKER_2>We have to have egalitarianism.

01:32:08.691 --> 01:32:13.651
<v SPEAKER_2>We have to have equality in this new paradise we're building.

01:32:13.651 --> 01:32:20.311
<v SPEAKER_2>If you know anything about communism, it's going to sound very similar to the claims made by the communists.

01:32:20.311 --> 01:32:22.991
<v SPEAKER_2>How did that go for them?

01:32:22.991 --> 01:32:31.831
<v SPEAKER_2>These men who are persecuting Christians in the Church are doing Satan's work on his behalf, sometimes consciously.

01:32:31.831 --> 01:32:35.591
<v SPEAKER_2>Mostly not, but sometimes consciously.

01:32:35.591 --> 01:32:43.371
<v SPEAKER_2>And they are doing it because if Satan manages to destroy the churches in the West, he will have won.

01:32:43.371 --> 01:32:50.091
<v SPEAKER_2>As Woe said, if the Western churches fall, there is nothing left to oppose him.

01:32:50.091 --> 01:32:55.991
<v SPEAKER_2>There is no one coming from anywhere else to restore the Gospel if it is lost here and now.

01:32:57.331 --> 01:33:02.411
<v SPEAKER_2>That is why Satan is working so feverishly, so fervently.

01:33:02.411 --> 01:33:05.051
<v SPEAKER_2>These may be the end times, they may not be the end times.

01:33:05.051 --> 01:33:06.691
<v SPEAKER_2>We don't really know.

01:33:08.011 --> 01:33:09.671
<v SPEAKER_2>But it doesn't actually matter.

01:33:09.671 --> 01:33:16.411
<v SPEAKER_2>As I've said before, it's always the end times for any individual Christian, because you could die tomorrow.

01:33:16.411 --> 01:33:18.891
<v SPEAKER_2>You could die right now while you're listening to this podcast.

01:33:18.891 --> 01:33:22.671
<v SPEAKER_2>I could die right now while I'm recording it, although chances are you wouldn't hear it then.

01:33:26.511 --> 01:33:34.391
<v SPEAKER_2>Eternity is always a second away for any mortal, and so it doesn't matter if these are the end times or not the end times.

01:33:34.391 --> 01:33:46.351
<v SPEAKER_2>It matters how we respond to what is happening in our churches, in our countries today, what is being done to our nations, what Satan is doing in the world.

01:33:46.351 --> 01:33:59.371
<v SPEAKER_2>It matters how we respond to those things, because God gives us the duty to do what we can with what we have been given, with the time in which we have been given to do it.

01:33:59.371 --> 01:34:11.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, the standard is, of course, perfection, and we will all fall short of that, but ultimately and practically speaking, the standard is not perfection when it comes to what we must do in this life.

01:34:11.811 --> 01:34:13.931
<v SPEAKER_2>The standard is doing your duty.

01:34:16.071 --> 01:34:23.311
<v SPEAKER_2>God does not expect you to go out and conquer the entire world and bring it under the cross.

01:34:23.311 --> 01:34:26.651
<v SPEAKER_2>He certainly doesn't expect every single man to do that.

01:34:26.651 --> 01:34:30.151
<v SPEAKER_2>No one would advance that claim because that would be insane.

01:34:31.171 --> 01:34:42.231
<v SPEAKER_2>But he does expect you, if you are a father, to raise up your children in the faith, to instruct them in the faith, to baptize them, to keep them in the faith, to take them to church.

01:34:43.311 --> 01:34:46.851
<v SPEAKER_2>And the same of course is true with regard to your wife.

01:34:46.851 --> 01:34:52.911
<v SPEAKER_2>He does expect you to do the things that are your duty with the things he has given you.

01:34:52.911 --> 01:34:58.791
<v SPEAKER_2>Part of that is defending the churches against these wolves.

01:34:58.791 --> 01:35:13.171
<v SPEAKER_2>Part of that is recognizing the wickedness of what they preach, recognizing that it is not the Christian religion, that it is a very different religion from a very different source that ends in a very different place.

01:35:13.171 --> 01:35:19.871
<v SPEAKER_2>It is recognizing that this is our battle here and now for our time, for our generation.

01:35:19.871 --> 01:35:24.371
<v SPEAKER_2>Different generations have different battles to fight.

01:35:24.371 --> 01:35:27.331
<v SPEAKER_2>Some lived relatively peaceful lives.

01:35:27.331 --> 01:35:35.071
<v SPEAKER_2>There were periods of Christendom, even when there may have been plague or other problems, certainly in certain centuries.

01:35:35.071 --> 01:35:38.951
<v SPEAKER_2>There were periods where things were relatively peaceful.

01:35:38.951 --> 01:35:53.851
<v SPEAKER_2>And so those men had the standard battles that all men have against temptation, whether it's the flesh or the devil, against sloth, against lust, against all of these problems that are common to men at all times and all places.

01:35:55.531 --> 01:36:00.771
<v SPEAKER_2>But there are certain generations and there are certain times that have exceptional battles.

01:36:00.771 --> 01:36:03.731
<v SPEAKER_2>And we are faced with one of those.

01:36:03.731 --> 01:36:10.771
<v SPEAKER_2>Because what we see happening may not be the great apostasy, but it is a great apostasy.

01:36:11.791 --> 01:36:13.511
<v SPEAKER_2>We see many falling away from the faith.

01:36:13.511 --> 01:36:16.071
<v SPEAKER_2>Now there are some coming back to the faith.

01:36:16.071 --> 01:36:17.611
<v SPEAKER_2>And that is wonderful news.

01:36:17.611 --> 01:36:22.411
<v SPEAKER_2>And we are always happy to receive those messages because it means that God is still at work.

01:36:22.411 --> 01:36:27.651
<v SPEAKER_2>And we know that he is still at work because he promises to be with us even to the end of the age.

01:36:29.631 --> 01:36:31.951
<v SPEAKER_2>But there is much work to be done.

01:36:31.951 --> 01:36:44.311
<v SPEAKER_2>Because if we are to rescue the churches, and certainly if we are to rescue the sheep still in these churches, in particular the wicked ones, then it falls to us to do that.

01:36:44.311 --> 01:36:46.851
<v SPEAKER_2>Again, no one else is coming to save us.

01:36:46.851 --> 01:36:52.251
<v SPEAKER_2>I'm not saying that Christ is ineffectual or that his arm is shortened.

01:36:52.251 --> 01:36:54.311
<v SPEAKER_2>Because, of course, he will save all of the elect.

01:36:55.231 --> 01:36:59.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Rather, I am saying that there is work to be done, and it is our duty to do it.

01:36:59.811 --> 01:37:01.751
<v SPEAKER_2>Think of the parable of the talents.

01:37:02.771 --> 01:37:11.951
<v SPEAKER_2>You are to do what you can with what God has given you, not bury your talent in the ground and simply wait for his return and hope for the best.

01:37:11.951 --> 01:37:13.971
<v SPEAKER_2>That is not the Christian life.

01:37:13.971 --> 01:37:20.951
<v SPEAKER_2>The Christian life is standing up under this persecution and facing it down and doing what needs to be done.

01:37:22.231 --> 01:37:28.951
<v SPEAKER_2>Because you want to see every single soul entrusted to your care in paradise for eternity.

01:37:28.951 --> 01:37:35.391
<v SPEAKER_2>And yes, of course, we don't deny that there is predestination, that there is election.

01:37:35.391 --> 01:37:37.891
<v SPEAKER_2>But these things aren't so simple.

01:37:37.891 --> 01:37:43.291
<v SPEAKER_2>And God has given you things to do, and God expects you to do them.

01:37:43.291 --> 01:37:46.591
<v SPEAKER_2>He expects you to do your duty.

01:37:46.591 --> 01:38:07.911
<v SPEAKER_2>And again, part of that is discerning the reality of the time in which we live, knowing the times, discerning the sheep and the goats, figuring out which men aren't actually sheep, but rather wolves in sheep's clothing, and dealing with them as Christian men have always dealt with wolves.

01:38:07.911 --> 01:38:15.511
<v SPEAKER_2>Because that is a Christian duty, and as Christian men, we cannot neglect that duty, or we cease to be Christians.

01:38:18.831 --> 01:38:27.191
<v SPEAKER_2>So now we're actually going to do something that we don't typically do in episodes, but every now and then it's nice to have someone else speaking, perhaps.

01:38:27.191 --> 01:38:36.891
<v SPEAKER_2>We are going to share a clip from Paul Washer going over persecution and what it means for the modern church, for our time.

01:38:38.151 --> 01:38:47.811
<v SPEAKER_1>The church in America is going to suffer so terribly, and we laugh now, but they will come after us, and they will come after our children.

01:38:47.811 --> 01:38:53.171
<v SPEAKER_1>They will close the net around us while we are playing soccer mom and soccer dad.

01:38:53.171 --> 01:39:05.271
<v SPEAKER_1>While we are arguing over so many little things and mesmerized by so many trinkets, the net even now is closing around you and your children and your grandchildren, and it does not cause you to fear.

01:39:05.271 --> 01:39:11.091
<v SPEAKER_1>You will be isolated from society as has already happened.

01:39:11.091 --> 01:39:19.571
<v SPEAKER_1>Anyone who tries to run for office, who actually believes the Bible, will be considered a lunatic until finally we are silenced.

01:39:19.571 --> 01:39:30.451
<v SPEAKER_1>We will be called things that were not and persecuted, not for being followers of Christ, but for being radical fundamentalists who do not know the true way of Christ, which of course is love and tolerance.

01:39:30.451 --> 01:39:35.631
<v SPEAKER_1>You'll go down as the greatest bigots and haters of mankind in history.

01:39:37.711 --> 01:39:41.411
<v SPEAKER_1>They've already come after your children, and for most of you, they got them.

01:39:42.431 --> 01:39:50.531
<v SPEAKER_1>They got them through the public schools and indoctrination and the university and indoctrination, and then you wonder why your children come out not serving the Lord.

01:39:50.531 --> 01:39:54.591
<v SPEAKER_1>It's because you fed them right into the devil's mouth.

01:39:54.591 --> 01:39:58.211
<v SPEAKER_1>So little by little, the net is closing around, and then it's not little by little.

01:39:58.211 --> 01:40:04.211
<v SPEAKER_1>Look how fast things are going downhill just in a matter of weeks, matter of weeks.

01:40:05.591 --> 01:40:14.571
<v SPEAKER_1>But at the same time, know this, persecution is always meant for evil, but God always means it for good.

01:40:14.571 --> 01:40:22.511
<v SPEAKER_1>And is it not better to suffer in this life, to have an extra weight of glory in heaven?

01:40:22.511 --> 01:40:24.691
<v SPEAKER_1>You must settle this in your mind.

01:40:24.691 --> 01:40:28.291
<v SPEAKER_1>This is the one thing I want to say over and over.

01:40:28.291 --> 01:40:34.251
<v SPEAKER_1>Do not believe down through history, you have a wrong idea of martyrdom and persecution.

01:40:34.251 --> 01:40:41.971
<v SPEAKER_1>You think that these men were persecuted and martyred for their sincere faith in Jesus Christ.

01:40:41.971 --> 01:40:46.431
<v SPEAKER_1>That was the real reason, but no one heard that publicly.

01:40:46.431 --> 01:41:02.911
<v SPEAKER_1>They were martyred, and they were persecuted as enemies of the state, as child molesters, as bigots, as narrow-minded stupid people who had fallen for a ruse and can contribute nothing to society.

01:41:02.911 --> 01:41:21.051
<v SPEAKER_1>Your suffering will not be noble, so your mind must be filled with the Word of God when all people persecute you and turn on you, and the Spirit of God and common grace pulls back, and you see even your children and your grandchildren tossing in the lot that you should die.

01:41:21.051 --> 01:41:22.731
<v SPEAKER_1>This is no game.

01:41:22.731 --> 01:41:26.611
<v SPEAKER_1>You want revival and awakening, but know this.

01:41:26.611 --> 01:41:33.431
<v SPEAKER_1>For the most part, great awakenings have come only preceding great national catastrophes or the persecution of the church.

01:41:34.571 --> 01:41:47.371
<v SPEAKER_1>I believe God is bringing a great awakening, but I believe that He is raising up young men who are strong in trust in the providence of God to be able to wade through the hell that's going to break loose on us.

01:41:47.371 --> 01:41:57.511
<v SPEAKER_1>And it will be on us before we even recognize it, unless, unless in God's providence, He is not done.

01:41:57.511 --> 01:41:59.531
<v SPEAKER_1>He is not done.

01:41:59.531 --> 01:42:02.371
<v SPEAKER_1>And note, this is, this is not silly talk.

01:42:03.171 --> 01:42:07.231
<v SPEAKER_1>Apart from a great awakening, these things are going to come upon you.

01:42:07.231 --> 01:42:10.911
<v SPEAKER_1>Be ready to lose your homes, your cars and everything.

01:42:12.651 --> 01:42:20.031
<v SPEAKER_3>So that Paul Washer clip is 16 years old, and it may as well have been recorded this week, or next week, or next year.

01:42:20.031 --> 01:42:26.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It is truly evergreen because it's talking about the same things we're talking about, the state of the world.

01:42:26.851 --> 01:42:28.951
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not about one denomination.

01:42:28.951 --> 01:42:32.171
<v SPEAKER_3>It is about everything that we see around us.

01:42:32.791 --> 01:42:36.431
<v SPEAKER_3>And what he says is entirely consistent with scripture, despite he's not a Lutheran.

01:42:36.431 --> 01:42:42.431
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm sure we would argue about all sorts of things, but we don't argue about the one thing that matters right now.

01:42:42.431 --> 01:42:51.731
<v SPEAKER_3>That's part of the reason that Stone Choir exists, despite the fact that we're Lutheran, and we talk about certain things in very Lutheran ways, and we're not going to budge on those beliefs.

01:42:51.731 --> 01:42:58.771
<v SPEAKER_3>But the fight that stands before the remainder of the Church today is not one that breaks along denominational lines.

01:42:58.771 --> 01:43:00.351
<v SPEAKER_3>And we see that everywhere.

01:43:00.351 --> 01:43:01.351
<v SPEAKER_3>It's unavoidable.

01:43:02.111 --> 01:43:16.611
<v SPEAKER_3>When you see the Southern Baptist Convention and the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod, all on the same page about certain issues, that has an external force and it is not from God.

01:43:16.611 --> 01:43:20.471
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to read now from the end of John 15 and beginning of John 16.

01:43:20.471 --> 01:43:23.851
<v SPEAKER_3>We're going to bury you in Scripture like I said we would.

01:43:23.851 --> 01:43:27.251
<v SPEAKER_3>Once again, this is Jesus speaking as in all the Scripture.

01:43:28.811 --> 01:43:32.971
<v SPEAKER_3>If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.

01:43:32.971 --> 01:43:36.431
<v SPEAKER_3>If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own.

01:43:36.431 --> 01:43:42.391
<v SPEAKER_3>But because you were not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

01:43:42.391 --> 01:43:44.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Remember the word that I have said to you.

01:43:44.711 --> 01:43:47.551
<v SPEAKER_3>A servant is not greater than his master.

01:43:47.551 --> 01:43:50.571
<v SPEAKER_3>If they persecuted me, they will persecute you.

01:43:50.571 --> 01:43:53.451
<v SPEAKER_3>If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

01:43:53.451 --> 01:43:59.371
<v SPEAKER_3>But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me.

01:43:59.371 --> 01:44:03.731
<v SPEAKER_3>If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin.

01:44:03.731 --> 01:44:06.211
<v SPEAKER_3>But now they have no excuse for their sin.

01:44:06.211 --> 01:44:09.051
<v SPEAKER_3>Whoever hates me hates my father also.

01:44:09.051 --> 01:44:14.411
<v SPEAKER_3>If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin.

01:44:14.411 --> 01:44:17.831
<v SPEAKER_3>But now they have seen and hated both me and my father.

01:44:17.831 --> 01:44:20.811
<v SPEAKER_3>But the word that is written in their law must be fulfilled.

01:44:20.811 --> 01:44:23.351
<v SPEAKER_3>They hated me without a cause.

01:44:23.351 --> 01:44:26.011
<v SPEAKER_3>I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away.

01:44:26.911 --> 01:44:28.971
<v SPEAKER_3>They will put you out of the synagogues.

01:44:28.971 --> 01:44:34.271
<v SPEAKER_3>Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.

01:44:34.271 --> 01:44:38.571
<v SPEAKER_3>And they will do these things because they have not known the father nor me.

01:44:38.571 --> 01:44:45.031
<v SPEAKER_3>But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told them to you.

01:44:45.031 --> 01:45:02.771
<v SPEAKER_3>One of the reasons that Cory and I are so vehemently opposed to preterist arguments about which portions of scripture are completely fulfilled, whether it's all fulfilled, whether all prophecy is done, or some prophecies but not others, is it's a rejection of typology.

01:45:02.771 --> 01:45:13.731
<v SPEAKER_3>It is necessary to understand that when Jesus and when the apostles and the prophets speak, there are prophecies that they give that are evergreen.

01:45:13.731 --> 01:45:18.191
<v SPEAKER_3>They are recurring, just as there will be wars and rumors of wars.

01:45:18.191 --> 01:45:24.851
<v SPEAKER_3>Perhaps the most evergreen statement of prophecy in scripture, it's the state of things.

01:45:24.851 --> 01:45:35.971
<v SPEAKER_3>So when Jesus says, they are going to throw you out of the synagogues and they are going to kill you and they are going to say they are doing it in my name, yes, that absolutely happened up to and after AD 70.

01:45:35.971 --> 01:45:38.011
<v SPEAKER_3>That doesn't mean that was the last time it happened.

01:45:38.011 --> 01:45:41.871
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't mean that was a complete fulfillment of what is prophesied.

01:45:41.871 --> 01:45:43.831
<v SPEAKER_3>We see that today.

01:45:43.831 --> 01:45:54.431
<v SPEAKER_3>There are men who have been thrown out of the synagogues today for saying what God says and they have sought to kill those men and they will continue to do so.

01:45:54.431 --> 01:45:57.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And they may eventually succeed if God permits it.

01:45:57.771 --> 01:45:59.351
<v SPEAKER_3>Glory be to God.

01:45:59.351 --> 01:46:01.991
<v SPEAKER_3>We don't have to worry about the outcome.

01:46:01.991 --> 01:46:03.031
<v SPEAKER_3>We have to worry about it.

01:46:03.031 --> 01:46:05.631
<v SPEAKER_3>Are we going to show up and be faithful?

01:46:05.631 --> 01:46:08.031
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the only thing we can control.

01:46:08.031 --> 01:46:16.251
<v SPEAKER_3>We can control whether or not we're going to be faithful with the things that God has given us and with the promises that he has made to us.

01:46:16.251 --> 01:46:20.031
<v SPEAKER_3>All of these exhortations, they're not about saving ourselves.

01:46:20.031 --> 01:46:21.331
<v SPEAKER_3>They're not about picking fights.

01:46:21.391 --> 01:46:24.611
<v SPEAKER_3>They're not about anything except for believing God.

01:46:24.611 --> 01:46:29.571
<v SPEAKER_3>That should be the simplest plea for any Christian to give to another.

01:46:29.571 --> 01:46:35.291
<v SPEAKER_3>And any man who hears a Christian pleading with him to obey God should take it seriously.

01:46:35.291 --> 01:46:38.011
<v SPEAKER_3>As I've said before, I do take it seriously.

01:46:38.011 --> 01:46:45.191
<v SPEAKER_3>When these opponents say, God says, do this, you're being bad, you're sinning, I take the premise seriously.

01:46:45.191 --> 01:46:47.391
<v SPEAKER_3>Because if that's true, I'm going to repent.

01:46:47.391 --> 01:46:56.991
<v SPEAKER_3>There have been things that I've done like I just, I flip so fast you wouldn't even know, it's unsatisfying to accuse me of sin when I'm sinning because I try.

01:46:56.991 --> 01:47:04.251
<v SPEAKER_3>My strict goal for myself is to suck it up and immediately repent and to thank someone who has called me to repent.

01:47:04.251 --> 01:47:06.191
<v SPEAKER_3>That is my spirit.

01:47:06.191 --> 01:47:10.731
<v SPEAKER_3>The things that we are all accused of now are things that are not sins.

01:47:10.731 --> 01:47:12.251
<v SPEAKER_3>They are not from God.

01:47:12.251 --> 01:47:13.891
<v SPEAKER_3>They are of the devil.

01:47:13.891 --> 01:47:17.151
<v SPEAKER_3>They are of the devil's children who speak all around us.

01:47:18.131 --> 01:47:21.111
<v SPEAKER_3>Contact with the devil's children is damning.

01:47:21.111 --> 01:47:27.331
<v SPEAKER_3>Everywhere we see that when men can sort with them, damnation follows in its wake.

01:47:27.331 --> 01:47:30.551
<v SPEAKER_3>All of these issues have been driven by the devil's children.

01:47:30.551 --> 01:47:33.951
<v SPEAKER_3>And men who will stand up and say that are going to be hated.

01:47:33.951 --> 01:47:35.791
<v SPEAKER_3>They are going to be thrown out of the churches.

01:47:35.791 --> 01:47:40.531
<v SPEAKER_3>They are going to be killed in the name of God by men who say they are serving God.

01:47:40.531 --> 01:47:45.531
<v SPEAKER_3>Just as Paul was serving God when he held the cloaks for those who stoned Stephen to death.

01:47:46.511 --> 01:47:50.931
<v SPEAKER_3>It was one of the wickedest acts recorded in scripture, and they were all doing it in the name of God.

01:47:50.931 --> 01:47:53.031
<v SPEAKER_3>That's what it looks like.

01:47:53.031 --> 01:47:54.551
<v SPEAKER_3>The Romans didn't kill Christ.

01:47:54.551 --> 01:47:56.711
<v SPEAKER_3>They were the proximate cause.

01:47:56.711 --> 01:47:58.991
<v SPEAKER_3>They just happened to be the instrument.

01:47:58.991 --> 01:48:01.711
<v SPEAKER_3>He who wielded the sword had another name.

01:48:01.711 --> 01:48:05.951
<v SPEAKER_3>All of these matters are going to look like one thing, and they are actually going to be another.

01:48:05.951 --> 01:48:09.951
<v SPEAKER_3>And the problem is that so many men today do not have spiritual eyes.

01:48:09.951 --> 01:48:16.651
<v SPEAKER_3>They are either blind or they are asleep, and they can't be bothered to look and see what's actually happening.

01:48:16.651 --> 01:48:20.631
<v SPEAKER_3>And those of you who do have spiritual eyes have been astonished at these things.

01:48:20.631 --> 01:48:24.891
<v SPEAKER_3>Because, you know, in the case of Stone Choir and the things that we've said, we're not bomb throwers.

01:48:24.891 --> 01:48:25.951
<v SPEAKER_3>We're not.

01:48:25.951 --> 01:48:28.391
<v SPEAKER_3>This sounds like NPR most of the time.

01:48:28.391 --> 01:48:30.551
<v SPEAKER_3>It kind of is, except it's Christian.

01:48:30.551 --> 01:48:33.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Like, we just sit down and talk about something that's important.

01:48:33.771 --> 01:48:38.831
<v SPEAKER_3>We talk about it articulately and well, but we talk about the things that are crucial.

01:48:38.831 --> 01:48:41.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Unlike NPR, we're talking about things that actually matter.

01:48:42.371 --> 01:48:47.591
<v SPEAKER_3>This is not an anesthetic to just dull your day so that you can get through it.

01:48:47.591 --> 01:48:49.351
<v SPEAKER_3>This isn't a warm bath.

01:48:49.351 --> 01:48:54.611
<v SPEAKER_3>And we try to be sensitive to the fact that when we have heavy episodes like this, we don't want to bury people.

01:48:54.611 --> 01:48:57.011
<v SPEAKER_3>But you need to know what time it is.

01:48:57.011 --> 01:49:00.671
<v SPEAKER_3>Paul Washer was warning men 16 years ago what time it is.

01:49:00.671 --> 01:49:02.611
<v SPEAKER_3>It's even more urgent today.

01:49:02.611 --> 01:49:05.551
<v SPEAKER_3>We are that much closer to the end of all things.

01:49:05.551 --> 01:49:09.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Persecution inside the Church is coming from men who claim they're Christians.

01:49:10.411 --> 01:49:25.311
<v SPEAKER_3>The only way to discern what Christ promises is to discern that there are those who will claim in the name of Christ things that are satanic, things that are positively, utterly wicked, are going to be declared in the name of Christ.

01:49:25.311 --> 01:49:30.491
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you do not know your master's voice, you will follow Satan into hell.

01:49:30.491 --> 01:49:35.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Those who understand and recognize their master's voice follow him.

01:49:35.031 --> 01:49:35.891
<v SPEAKER_3>That's all this is.

01:49:36.511 --> 01:49:40.151
<v SPEAKER_3>Scripture says one thing, the pastors are saying another thing.

01:49:40.151 --> 01:49:41.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Who's telling the truth?

01:49:41.771 --> 01:49:46.171
<v SPEAKER_3>God or the man who's standing there saying he's speaking in the name of God?

01:49:46.171 --> 01:49:48.131
<v SPEAKER_3>Somebody's lying.

01:49:48.131 --> 01:49:49.891
<v SPEAKER_3>You better put your money on God.

01:49:49.891 --> 01:49:51.611
<v SPEAKER_3>You better obey God.

01:49:51.611 --> 01:49:55.751
<v SPEAKER_3>And if you're persecuted and you're thrown out of the synagogue for it, you know what?

01:49:55.751 --> 01:49:57.691
<v SPEAKER_3>Know that it was always a synagogue.

01:49:57.691 --> 01:50:01.351
<v SPEAKER_3>Maybe you didn't see it, but it had to have been to have gotten to that point.

01:50:02.411 --> 01:50:08.351
<v SPEAKER_3>This wickedness that is rampant today is because past generations have failed to be faithful.

01:50:08.351 --> 01:50:09.351
<v SPEAKER_3>We have no time machine.

01:50:09.351 --> 01:50:12.331
<v SPEAKER_3>We can't go back and fix past errors.

01:50:12.331 --> 01:50:15.231
<v SPEAKER_3>We have to fix the accumulated errors today.

01:50:15.231 --> 01:50:22.711
<v SPEAKER_3>And that begins with pulling this fire alarm and declaring to every man, this wickedness is going on among us just as it was prophesied.

01:50:22.711 --> 01:50:27.071
<v SPEAKER_3>The persecution of the church is in the church by the church.

01:50:27.071 --> 01:50:32.131
<v SPEAKER_3>It is false Christians persecuting true Christians, and it's not going to look like it.

01:50:32.131 --> 01:50:34.011
<v SPEAKER_3>It's going to be called church discipline.

01:50:34.011 --> 01:50:38.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Something I would wager most of you have never even heard of actually happening in your churches.

01:50:38.451 --> 01:50:41.471
<v SPEAKER_3>Church discipline is almost a fiction.

01:50:41.471 --> 01:50:46.151
<v SPEAKER_3>It's something that technically exists in someone who's removed from the role so they didn't show up.

01:50:46.151 --> 01:50:49.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Or maybe once in a while, something really egregious happens.

01:50:49.451 --> 01:50:51.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Today, it's on everybody's lips.

01:50:51.551 --> 01:50:53.991
<v SPEAKER_3>Church discipline out the wazoo.

01:50:53.991 --> 01:51:07.111
<v SPEAKER_3>Wouldn't it be great if there were a great awakening where we were going to call to repentance all of those who have children, who are not virgins, who have left their homes, who are drug addicted, who are doing all these things and don't repent?

01:51:07.111 --> 01:51:10.611
<v SPEAKER_3>Those parents should be expelled from the churches for unrepentance.

01:51:10.611 --> 01:51:15.251
<v SPEAKER_3>Wouldn't that be delightful if we actually held men to account to God's standards?

01:51:15.251 --> 01:51:16.571
<v SPEAKER_3>But that's not what's happening.

01:51:16.571 --> 01:51:17.991
<v SPEAKER_3>None of it's what's happening.

01:51:17.991 --> 01:51:29.491
<v SPEAKER_3>The only place where you see this sort of so-called discipline is to persecute Christians who despise the new global religion and the priests who will murder for it.

01:51:29.491 --> 01:51:30.871
<v SPEAKER_3>That's it.

01:51:30.871 --> 01:51:32.931
<v SPEAKER_3>It's real simple.

01:51:32.931 --> 01:51:37.511
<v SPEAKER_3>You can have 18th-century beliefs and go to heaven, I promise you.

01:51:37.511 --> 01:51:41.231
<v SPEAKER_3>Your great-great-great-grandparents are in heaven if they were Europeans.

01:51:41.231 --> 01:51:43.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Almost all of them are probably in heaven.

01:51:43.031 --> 01:51:44.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Most people were Christian.

01:51:44.511 --> 01:51:45.411
<v SPEAKER_3>Were they great Christians?

01:51:45.411 --> 01:51:46.471
<v SPEAKER_3>Probably not.

01:51:46.471 --> 01:51:47.411
<v SPEAKER_3>Are you great Christians?

01:51:47.411 --> 01:51:48.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Probably not.

01:51:48.511 --> 01:51:52.231
<v SPEAKER_3>I'm certainly not a great Christian, but I trust in God's promises.

01:51:53.491 --> 01:51:56.251
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the measure of the Christian faith.

01:51:56.251 --> 01:51:58.811
<v SPEAKER_3>The creeds are the measure of Christian faith.

01:51:58.811 --> 01:52:03.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Things that happened in the 1960s are not the measure of the Christian faith.

01:52:03.511 --> 01:52:06.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Any man who says so is anti-Christ, period.

01:52:06.311 --> 01:52:08.711
<v SPEAKER_3>It doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth after that.

01:52:08.711 --> 01:52:18.471
<v SPEAKER_3>If he said that you need to believe something from 1945 or 1964 or 1861, he is going to hell and he is trying to drag you there with him.

01:52:18.471 --> 01:52:19.711
<v SPEAKER_3>There's no other way around it.

01:52:19.991 --> 01:52:23.551
<v SPEAKER_3>And you don't need to be confused and you don't need to listen to his arguments.

01:52:23.551 --> 01:52:28.851
<v SPEAKER_3>Because what he is actually saying is that everyone is in hell until this came along.

01:52:28.851 --> 01:52:33.471
<v SPEAKER_3>If that is Christianity, then Christianity is nothing and we are wasting our time.

01:52:33.471 --> 01:52:36.611
<v SPEAKER_3>I have lots of things that would be much more pleasurable to do than this.

01:52:36.611 --> 01:52:43.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Things that would actually help me materially, help me in my body and my days instead of this.

01:52:43.511 --> 01:52:45.771
<v SPEAKER_3>Being despised is not pleasant.

01:52:45.771 --> 01:52:47.411
<v SPEAKER_3>Being isolated is not pleasant.

01:52:48.511 --> 01:52:53.411
<v SPEAKER_3>And so, it's important to remember that when it happens, there's a reason for it.

01:52:53.411 --> 01:52:56.311
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's not just that you said something that was unpopular.

01:52:56.311 --> 01:52:59.251
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not that you believed something that was unpopular.

01:52:59.251 --> 01:53:01.731
<v SPEAKER_3>It's that you were faithful to God.

01:53:01.731 --> 01:53:07.431
<v SPEAKER_3>You believed God and you believed His promises and you stand with a cloud of saints.

01:53:07.431 --> 01:53:12.251
<v SPEAKER_3>And the world is going to hate you and that world includes most of the church.

01:53:12.251 --> 01:53:14.951
<v SPEAKER_3>That was part of the lesson of that series at the beginning of the year.

01:53:15.511 --> 01:53:19.911
<v SPEAKER_3>When you look at the beliefs of those inside the church, it's overwhelmingly not Christian.

01:53:19.911 --> 01:53:34.731
<v SPEAKER_3>People who show up for church, who call themselves Christians, who say they're good Christians, they might even seem like it until they're put to the test on these very simple matters and the fangs come out and the knives come out and the murder begins instantly.

01:53:34.731 --> 01:53:40.531
<v SPEAKER_3>These issues instantly cause behavior for men that we all thought were Christians for decades.

01:53:40.531 --> 01:53:41.611
<v SPEAKER_3>We all thought, wow, what a great guy.

01:53:41.611 --> 01:53:42.971
<v SPEAKER_3>He's devoted his life to Christ.

01:53:42.971 --> 01:53:44.111
<v SPEAKER_3>He's done all these good things.

01:53:44.671 --> 01:53:53.811
<v SPEAKER_3>I've benefited from his teaching and then one thing comes out that has to do with something that's happened in the last 200 years and they want to murder men.

01:53:53.811 --> 01:53:55.711
<v SPEAKER_3>That is a spirit of antichrist.

01:53:55.711 --> 01:53:58.331
<v SPEAKER_3>Satan cannot conceal himself forever.

01:53:58.331 --> 01:54:01.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And this is what we're seeing and we're seeing it inside the church.

01:54:01.771 --> 01:54:03.991
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't worry about state persecution.

01:54:03.991 --> 01:54:06.651
<v SPEAKER_3>Don't worry about the state of Christianity in China.

01:54:06.651 --> 01:54:09.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Worry about the state of Christianity in your zip code.

01:54:09.451 --> 01:54:14.911
<v SPEAKER_3>There are probably fewer Christians than many of the zip codes of the listeners of this show than there are in China.

01:54:14.911 --> 01:54:16.631
<v SPEAKER_3>That's not a joke.

01:54:16.631 --> 01:54:17.351
<v SPEAKER_3>I live in New England.

01:54:17.351 --> 01:54:21.331
<v SPEAKER_3>There are more witches in New England than there are Lutherans.

01:54:21.331 --> 01:54:24.271
<v SPEAKER_3>And Lutherans think I'm the problem.

01:54:24.271 --> 01:54:27.771
<v SPEAKER_3>I think I'm their problem for this very reason.

01:54:27.771 --> 01:54:29.291
<v SPEAKER_3>They're not worried about the witches.

01:54:29.291 --> 01:54:31.611
<v SPEAKER_3>They're worried about Christians.

01:54:31.611 --> 01:54:35.711
<v SPEAKER_3>That is what persecution is about and that is what perseverance is about.

01:54:35.711 --> 01:54:46.411
<v SPEAKER_3>We have to be thinking about these things, as Paul Washer mentioned, because if you don't think about it before it happens, when it comes, you're going to be so confused and overwhelmed that you will probably submit.

01:54:46.411 --> 01:54:53.351
<v SPEAKER_3>Someone comes to you and tells you to confess a false sin, as many of my friends have, as these events have unfolded.

01:54:53.351 --> 01:54:58.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Men I trusted and thought were good men, they have folded like cheap suits.

01:54:58.311 --> 01:55:02.051
<v SPEAKER_3>They have confessed false sins to false gods because it was easier.

01:55:02.051 --> 01:55:12.411
<v SPEAKER_3>I pray that they repent, but they will answer to God for their refusal to persevere, their refusal to stand with God against these evil things.

01:55:12.411 --> 01:55:15.591
<v SPEAKER_3>It's easier to stand with evil because that's where the crowd is.

01:55:15.591 --> 01:55:19.111
<v SPEAKER_3>That's where all of the adulation is.

01:55:19.111 --> 01:55:20.811
<v SPEAKER_3>That is where the good names are.

01:55:20.811 --> 01:55:28.431
<v SPEAKER_3>That goes back to what Jesus said in Luke, woe to you when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did, of the false prophets.

01:55:28.431 --> 01:55:31.871
<v SPEAKER_3>The false prophets were told to be good men.

01:55:31.871 --> 01:55:35.271
<v SPEAKER_3>The prophets who were actually faithful were murdered.

01:55:35.271 --> 01:55:36.831
<v SPEAKER_3>The false prophets were praised.

01:55:37.471 --> 01:55:40.471
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the rule, that is the rule.

01:55:40.471 --> 01:55:52.011
<v SPEAKER_3>When God blessed past generations with an exception to that rule, they were blessed for their faithfulness over generations, where entire nations were Christian, entire races were Christian.

01:55:52.011 --> 01:55:54.051
<v SPEAKER_3>None of that exists anymore.

01:55:54.051 --> 01:56:03.671
<v SPEAKER_3>God seems to have withdrawn his blessing, and all we have now is persecution inside the church, outside the church, from the church, of Christian men.

01:56:03.671 --> 01:56:07.631
<v SPEAKER_3>You must persevere in the face of it, so because God promised these things would happen.

01:56:07.631 --> 01:56:13.331
<v SPEAKER_3>If he promised they would happen, he promised that he would take care of you, and he promised he would reward you.

01:56:13.331 --> 01:56:18.871
<v SPEAKER_3>Not that doing what God says just for the sake of reward has never been a motivation for me.

01:56:18.871 --> 01:56:24.151
<v SPEAKER_3>I just don't want to betray the God who created me and the God who died for me on the cross.

01:56:24.151 --> 01:56:26.971
<v SPEAKER_3>What a despicable, cowardly thing that would be.

01:56:26.971 --> 01:56:33.071
<v SPEAKER_3>I would much rather be crapped on for being a Christian than to betray God.

01:56:34.171 --> 01:56:35.851
<v SPEAKER_3>It's just that simple.

01:56:35.851 --> 01:56:40.551
<v SPEAKER_3>If nobody likes you, maybe you're a jerk or maybe you're faithful.

01:56:40.551 --> 01:56:41.491
<v SPEAKER_3>You got to figure it out.

01:56:41.491 --> 01:56:42.851
<v SPEAKER_3>Some people are just jerks.

01:56:42.851 --> 01:56:44.191
<v SPEAKER_3>Some people are just terrible.

01:56:44.191 --> 01:56:48.751
<v SPEAKER_3>They don't have any friends and nobody likes you and everyone says they're terrible because they're actually terrible.

01:56:48.751 --> 01:56:51.811
<v SPEAKER_3>It's not proof, but it's also not proof that they're bad.

01:56:51.811 --> 01:56:59.831
<v SPEAKER_3>And scripture says that many times when that happens, especially in the end of days, is because those are the faithful remnant speaking against this evil.

01:57:00.991 --> 01:57:10.351
<v SPEAKER_3>The last thing that I want to say is a quote from Stonewall Jackson about his faith and a quote from James, because they're both a summation of a lot of this.

01:57:10.351 --> 01:57:11.971
<v SPEAKER_3>There's a quote that many of you have heard before.

01:57:11.971 --> 01:57:13.951
<v SPEAKER_3>Stonewall was an awesome man.

01:57:13.951 --> 01:57:19.851
<v SPEAKER_3>He said, My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in bed as in bed.

01:57:19.851 --> 01:57:21.951
<v SPEAKER_3>God has fixed the time for my death.

01:57:21.951 --> 01:57:27.971
<v SPEAKER_3>I do not concern myself about that, but to always be ready no matter when it may overtake me.

01:57:27.971 --> 01:57:29.471
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the way all men should live.

01:57:29.931 --> 01:57:32.931
<v SPEAKER_3>And then they would all be equally brave.

01:57:32.931 --> 01:57:34.271
<v SPEAKER_3>He's absolutely right.

01:57:34.271 --> 01:57:40.231
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's something that you have to think about before the bullets start flying, before the accusations start flying.

01:57:40.231 --> 01:57:47.031
<v SPEAKER_3>Because if you don't take that sort of confident faith into the battle, you will not find it when you're under fire.

01:57:47.031 --> 01:57:51.451
<v SPEAKER_3>You're not going to just suddenly remember, Oh, God's going to take care of me.

01:57:51.451 --> 01:57:54.091
<v SPEAKER_3>If you don't remember it going in.

01:57:54.091 --> 01:58:03.751
<v SPEAKER_3>The breastplate of righteousness, all that talk about armor and swords and battle, and equipment, is about what we take into it.

01:58:03.751 --> 01:58:07.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And it's from God, but you got to carry it with you.

01:58:07.771 --> 01:58:13.611
<v SPEAKER_3>James 1 writes, Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial.

01:58:13.611 --> 01:58:20.071
<v SPEAKER_3>For when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

01:58:20.071 --> 01:58:23.951
<v SPEAKER_3>Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God.

01:58:23.951 --> 01:58:27.351
<v SPEAKER_3>For God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one.

01:58:28.071 --> 01:58:32.011
<v SPEAKER_3>But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

01:58:32.011 --> 01:58:38.371
<v SPEAKER_3>Then desire when it has conceived brings birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

01:58:40.311 --> 01:58:47.691
<v SPEAKER_3>Our steadfastness as Christian men and women is in those terms.

01:58:47.691 --> 01:59:05.411
<v SPEAKER_3>We are steadfast in the faith, not only in the terms of withstanding these assaults in perseverance, we are steadfast in terms of just living Christian lives, where we try not to sin as much as we possibly can, and we know that when we fail, we throw ourselves on Christ's mercy.

01:59:05.411 --> 01:59:11.251
<v SPEAKER_3>The steadfastness also involves persevering when we are under assault from without.

01:59:11.251 --> 01:59:12.551
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes it's also within.

01:59:12.551 --> 01:59:14.271
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes it's just doubts.

01:59:14.271 --> 01:59:17.511
<v SPEAKER_3>Sometimes it's, I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing.

01:59:17.511 --> 01:59:19.071
<v SPEAKER_3>All these people are mad at me.

01:59:19.071 --> 01:59:20.671
<v SPEAKER_3>Does that mean I've sinned?

01:59:20.671 --> 01:59:21.731
<v SPEAKER_3>It's an important question.

01:59:22.071 --> 01:59:23.811
<v SPEAKER_3>It's the most important question.

01:59:23.811 --> 01:59:27.791
<v SPEAKER_3>Have I sinned should always be in the back of your mind.

01:59:27.871 --> 01:59:30.531
<v SPEAKER_3>It should pop to the front of your mind fairly often.

01:59:30.531 --> 01:59:33.011
<v SPEAKER_3>And when you're reading scripture, you're also going to find passages.

01:59:33.011 --> 01:59:37.651
<v SPEAKER_3>They're like, hey, here's a sin that you were trying to commit and you didn't want to think about.

01:59:37.651 --> 01:59:38.091
<v SPEAKER_3>Guess what?

01:59:38.091 --> 01:59:40.451
<v SPEAKER_3>You got to do the other thing.

01:59:40.451 --> 01:59:42.611
<v SPEAKER_3>God works that way.

01:59:42.611 --> 01:59:48.931
<v SPEAKER_3>When we flee from his word, when we flee from his commands, he will not remember us.

01:59:48.931 --> 01:59:50.851
<v SPEAKER_3>All we have to do is throw ourselves on his mercy.

01:59:51.471 --> 01:59:55.131
<v SPEAKER_3>And then everything else will take care of itself as he has promised.

01:59:55.131 --> 02:00:01.371
<v SPEAKER_3>So as Corey said, it's not that we want people worrying about these things apart from just planning.

02:00:01.371 --> 02:00:03.751
<v SPEAKER_3>I was doxxed a year and a half ago.

02:00:03.751 --> 02:00:07.451
<v SPEAKER_3>I did my response to being doxxed in 2022.

02:00:07.451 --> 02:00:10.851
<v SPEAKER_3>The episode, A Name No Man Knows, was my response.

02:00:10.851 --> 02:00:12.891
<v SPEAKER_3>And I described everything that would happen.

02:00:12.891 --> 02:00:15.391
<v SPEAKER_3>And I described what my response would be.

02:00:15.391 --> 02:00:18.691
<v SPEAKER_3>I already had been doxxed in my mind before it happened.

02:00:18.691 --> 02:00:20.291
<v SPEAKER_3>And so none of it surprised me on the day.

02:00:20.751 --> 02:00:23.311
<v SPEAKER_3>Like, okay, this is what I expected.

02:00:23.311 --> 02:00:37.991
<v SPEAKER_3>So I didn't run, I didn't hide, I didn't apologize for things that weren't sins, I didn't throw myself or anyone else under the bus, because the false accusations from murderers and child rapists We're of the devil.

02:00:37.991 --> 02:00:42.291
<v SPEAKER_3>In all the sins that I've committed in the past, I'm forgiven by God.

02:00:42.291 --> 02:00:48.471
<v SPEAKER_3>And all the reasons that I'm hated today are for trying, however imperfectly, to serve him.

02:00:48.471 --> 02:00:50.231
<v SPEAKER_3>That is the threat.

02:00:50.231 --> 02:00:54.071
<v SPEAKER_3>So I was able to persevere in that moment because I was mentally prepared.

02:00:54.071 --> 02:00:55.431
<v SPEAKER_3>It wasn't mental toughness.

02:00:55.431 --> 02:00:57.471
<v SPEAKER_3>It was just, okay, what's going to happen?

02:00:57.471 --> 02:00:58.531
<v SPEAKER_3>Here's what's going to happen.

02:00:58.531 --> 02:00:59.611
<v SPEAKER_3>What do you do?

02:00:59.611 --> 02:01:00.651
<v SPEAKER_3>This is what you do.

02:01:00.651 --> 02:01:02.211
<v SPEAKER_3>And I did it.

02:01:02.211 --> 02:01:08.611
<v SPEAKER_3>It can be very simple for most men, I hope, for some men at least, if you think things through.

02:01:08.611 --> 02:01:11.231
<v SPEAKER_3>That's the reason for doing an episode like this.

02:01:11.231 --> 02:01:17.571
<v SPEAKER_3>Mental preparedness, spiritual preparedness, must take place before the moment of testing.

02:01:17.571 --> 02:01:20.251
<v SPEAKER_3>If you're not prepared, you will fail.

02:01:20.251 --> 02:01:40.011
<v SPEAKER_3>I mean, God may help you, but God is going to help you better when you have put your trust in Him months and years ahead of time, when you've already thought, there are men in my church that might want me dead, that if they knew what I believed about something that is completely incidental, they would try to harm my family.

02:01:40.011 --> 02:01:43.251
<v SPEAKER_3>There are many of you who don't believe that today, they're going to learn the hard way.

02:01:43.251 --> 02:01:45.031
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want you to learn the hard way.

02:01:45.031 --> 02:01:48.771
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want it to be true, first of all, but it is true.

02:01:48.771 --> 02:01:54.431
<v SPEAKER_3>And this fire has been lit, and it is spreading like a wildfire.

02:01:54.431 --> 02:02:00.711
<v SPEAKER_3>Not because Stone Choir has said anything false or evil, but because we are shining a light in dark places.

02:02:01.731 --> 02:02:14.051
<v SPEAKER_3>The persecution in the church, by the church, and of the church is going to look to most men, like just good, solid Christian men trying to tamp down on these internet bad guys.

02:02:14.051 --> 02:02:16.471
<v SPEAKER_3>If that's true, then I would cheer them on.

02:02:16.471 --> 02:02:23.571
<v SPEAKER_3>There are bad people on the internet, I can name a few, but what is occurring is not of God.

02:02:23.571 --> 02:02:28.011
<v SPEAKER_3>And the spirit and the lies that are told in service to approve that.

02:02:28.891 --> 02:02:36.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Any man who looks at the behavior of those who hate us cannot possibly think that there's a good Christian response to us.

02:02:36.911 --> 02:02:41.911
<v SPEAKER_3>Even if we are wrong about everything, none of the responses have been good Christian responses.

02:02:41.911 --> 02:02:50.571
<v SPEAKER_3>They have been wildly out of character, they have been over the top, false, hysterical, malicious, incoherent.

02:02:50.571 --> 02:02:56.831
<v SPEAKER_3>No one has mustered an actual argument because all that matters is destruction.

02:02:57.731 --> 02:03:01.231
<v SPEAKER_3>The persecution is going to come for you, it's going to come for every man who's listening.

02:03:01.231 --> 02:03:02.871
<v SPEAKER_3>They have promised.

02:03:02.871 --> 02:03:07.151
<v SPEAKER_3>It is dangerous to listen to Stone Choir, and I hope you believe that.

02:03:07.151 --> 02:03:12.451
<v SPEAKER_3>Not because what we're saying is false, not because what we're saying is evil, because what we're saying is true.

02:03:12.451 --> 02:03:18.431
<v SPEAKER_3>And we're saying it to men who are in churches, and we're saying it to men who have joined churches because of Stone Choir.

02:03:18.431 --> 02:03:21.691
<v SPEAKER_3>The kingdom of God has grown because of what we say.

02:03:21.691 --> 02:03:25.391
<v SPEAKER_3>That is not the fruit of a poisonous tree, that is the fruit of God's work.

02:03:26.131 --> 02:03:29.731
<v SPEAKER_3>That is what must be stamped out.

02:03:29.731 --> 02:03:33.211
<v SPEAKER_3>This is a precarious time for all Christians everywhere.

02:03:33.211 --> 02:03:35.971
<v SPEAKER_3>You have nothing to do with any of this internet crap.

02:03:35.971 --> 02:03:42.471
<v SPEAKER_3>All Christians are in danger because if they're faithful, they will have to persevere in the face of persecution.

02:03:42.471 --> 02:03:47.791
<v SPEAKER_3>Believe it now because when it comes, if you are not prepared, you will fail the test.

02:03:47.791 --> 02:03:49.631
<v SPEAKER_3>I don't want that for any man.

02:03:49.631 --> 02:03:51.191
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to meet all of you in heaven.

02:03:51.191 --> 02:03:53.911
<v SPEAKER_3>I want to hang out in the new earth and have a great time.

02:03:53.971 --> 02:03:56.771
<v SPEAKER_3>And if we remember any of this crap, we're going to laugh.

02:03:56.771 --> 02:03:59.111
<v SPEAKER_3>If we don't remember, even better.

02:03:59.111 --> 02:04:02.471
<v SPEAKER_3>We have an eternity together in joy.

02:04:02.471 --> 02:04:08.191
<v SPEAKER_3>We will not share that joy together if we do not persevere together here where things are bad.

02:04:10.551 --> 02:04:15.751
<v SPEAKER_2>I want to close out with three more readings from scripture.

02:04:15.751 --> 02:04:19.891
<v SPEAKER_2>Not very lengthy ones, but three important readings on this topic.

02:04:20.851 --> 02:04:28.391
<v SPEAKER_2>But before I get to those, I just want to emphasize what Woe said about church discipline.

02:04:28.391 --> 02:04:30.331
<v SPEAKER_2>I want you to think about something.

02:04:31.691 --> 02:04:39.331
<v SPEAKER_2>We see many beliefs and many actions among supposed Christians that are very much not Christian.

02:04:40.571 --> 02:04:49.391
<v SPEAKER_2>And yet I want you to ask yourself, have you ever seen church discipline for someone who believes abortion is morally permissible?

02:04:51.351 --> 02:04:56.631
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for a woman who had an abortion?

02:04:56.631 --> 02:05:01.911
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for a man who pushed a woman to have an abortion?

02:05:01.911 --> 02:05:04.991
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for adultery?

02:05:06.151 --> 02:05:12.911
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for divorce and remarriage, which is of course adultery, except in the case of sexual immorality?

02:05:14.951 --> 02:05:20.451
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for obesity, which is indeed a sin?

02:05:21.731 --> 02:05:27.651
<v SPEAKER_2>Have you ever seen church discipline for cohabiting, which again is indeed a sin?

02:05:29.591 --> 02:05:41.291
<v SPEAKER_2>It is not the things that are manifestly sin that are being pursued by these persecutors within the church, because they are persecutors, they are not Christians.

02:05:42.651 --> 02:05:51.231
<v SPEAKER_2>If they were Christians, they would be dealing with these issues of open, high-handed manifest sin.

02:05:51.231 --> 02:06:10.371
<v SPEAKER_2>That is not what they are addressing, because again, they are not sheep, they are not shepherds, they are not working on behalf of Christ for the sake of his church, they are persecutors and accusers of the brethren, they are wicked, they are evil, they are wolves.

02:06:11.711 --> 02:06:18.931
<v SPEAKER_2>It is obvious from what they do and what they believe when pressed because they reveal it.

02:06:20.031 --> 02:06:25.991
<v SPEAKER_2>I wish that more men had the eyes to see this, because then we would be in a better position.

02:06:28.551 --> 02:06:37.151
<v SPEAKER_2>Part of that is spending time in scripture and developing that scriptural outlook, developing spiritual faculties.

02:06:39.131 --> 02:07:02.131
<v SPEAKER_2>This is not something that you just get when you're baptized or when you convert to Christianity, really when you are converted to Christianity, of course, because this is a matter of something that you build up over a lifetime of faithfulness, of time spent with other Christians, time spent in Christ's Word.

02:07:04.691 --> 02:07:13.831
<v SPEAKER_2>If you do not spend the time in the things of Christ and his Church, you will not persevere.

02:07:13.831 --> 02:07:18.771
<v SPEAKER_2>You will not stand up under the persecution, because you weren't ready.

02:07:20.051 --> 02:07:23.371
<v SPEAKER_2>You will be the seed that falls in the rocky soil.

02:07:23.371 --> 02:07:26.491
<v SPEAKER_2>You will have no root, and you will wither away.

02:07:26.491 --> 02:07:27.871
<v SPEAKER_2>That is the reality of this.

02:07:29.591 --> 02:07:33.831
<v SPEAKER_2>And that is why we are blunt on these matters.

02:07:33.831 --> 02:07:39.771
<v SPEAKER_2>It is why the things we're saying are stark, because these are eternal matters.

02:07:39.771 --> 02:07:45.051
<v SPEAKER_2>This is a matter of your eternal soul, of where you will spend your eternity.

02:07:45.051 --> 02:07:50.191
<v SPEAKER_2>It matters above and beyond everything else in life.

02:07:50.191 --> 02:07:57.611
<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, the things of this life matter, because how you execute those things is service or disservice to God.

02:07:57.611 --> 02:07:59.531
<v SPEAKER_2>Is faithfulness or unfaithfulness.

02:08:01.971 --> 02:08:04.971
<v SPEAKER_2>But you need to spend the time in God's Word.

02:08:04.971 --> 02:08:09.491
<v SPEAKER_2>And as we continually say, don't simply believe the things we say.

02:08:09.491 --> 02:08:12.371
<v SPEAKER_2>It's one of the reasons we're closing with God's Word.

02:08:12.371 --> 02:08:15.711
<v SPEAKER_2>Compare what we say to the words of God.

02:08:15.711 --> 02:08:23.771
<v SPEAKER_2>Compare what we say to what Christians have always believed, and subject the words of the adversaries to the exact same treatment.

02:08:25.151 --> 02:08:39.951
<v SPEAKER_2>Because what you will find is that what we are saying is written in the Word of God, is echoed by the saints down through the ages, and what the enemies are saying, what the adversaries are saying, is not found in the Word of God.

02:08:39.951 --> 02:08:48.931
<v SPEAKER_2>It's found in a very different sort of literature, and it has not been believed by the saints down through the ages, because it is not Christian.

02:08:50.711 --> 02:08:51.851
<v SPEAKER_2>God does not change.

02:08:52.591 --> 02:08:54.771
<v SPEAKER_2>Christianity does not change.

02:08:54.771 --> 02:08:58.891
<v SPEAKER_2>The beliefs of Christians do not change.

02:08:58.891 --> 02:09:02.411
<v SPEAKER_2>That is one of the reasons we recite the creeds.

02:09:02.411 --> 02:09:05.471
<v SPEAKER_2>It is a bulwark against false belief.

02:09:06.731 --> 02:09:12.611
<v SPEAKER_2>You can look to the great cloud of witnesses because they all believe the same things.

02:09:12.611 --> 02:09:19.471
<v SPEAKER_2>Because again, Christianity does not change because Christianity belongs to God, just the same as your faith belongs to God.

02:09:19.471 --> 02:09:23.831
<v SPEAKER_2>Even though it's a free gift from God to you, it belongs to God.

02:09:23.831 --> 02:09:26.271
<v SPEAKER_2>It's why you won't be lost out of his hand.

02:09:28.251 --> 02:09:35.311
<v SPEAKER_2>But we'll close with a reading from Matthew, a reading from Romans, and a reading from Jeremiah.

02:09:36.991 --> 02:09:38.991
<v SPEAKER_2>This is the first one from Matthew.

02:09:38.991 --> 02:09:44.331
<v SPEAKER_2>We've gone over a number of times before, but it certainly bears repeating.

02:09:46.111 --> 02:09:57.731
<v SPEAKER_2>As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

02:09:57.731 --> 02:10:10.291
<v SPEAKER_2>And Jesus answered them, See that no one leads you astray, for many will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they will lead many astray, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars.

02:10:10.291 --> 02:10:15.471
<v SPEAKER_2>See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.

02:10:15.471 --> 02:10:23.431
<v SPEAKER_2>For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

02:10:23.431 --> 02:10:26.851
<v SPEAKER_2>All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

02:10:26.851 --> 02:10:34.151
<v SPEAKER_2>Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

02:10:34.151 --> 02:10:42.651
<v SPEAKER_2>And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.

02:10:42.651 --> 02:10:46.771
<v SPEAKER_2>And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

02:10:47.511 --> 02:10:50.731
<v SPEAKER_2>And the one who endures to the end will be saved.

02:10:50.731 --> 02:10:59.091
<v SPEAKER_2>And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to the nations, and then the end will come.

02:11:00.531 --> 02:11:04.691
<v SPEAKER_2>The second of the three readings is from Romans 8.

02:11:04.691 --> 02:11:07.271
<v SPEAKER_2>What then shall we say to these things?

02:11:07.271 --> 02:11:10.831
<v SPEAKER_2>If God is for us, who can be against us?

02:11:10.831 --> 02:11:19.851
<v SPEAKER_2>He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

02:11:19.851 --> 02:11:22.751
<v SPEAKER_2>Who shall bring any charge against God's elect?

02:11:22.751 --> 02:11:24.791
<v SPEAKER_2>It is God who justifies.

02:11:24.791 --> 02:11:26.691
<v SPEAKER_2>Who is to condemn?

02:11:26.691 --> 02:11:35.811
<v SPEAKER_2>Christ Jesus is the one who died, more than that who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

02:11:35.811 --> 02:11:38.691
<v SPEAKER_2>Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?

02:11:38.731 --> 02:11:45.131
<v SPEAKER_2>Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

02:11:45.131 --> 02:11:49.931
<v SPEAKER_2>As it is written, For your sake we are being killed all the day long.

02:11:49.931 --> 02:11:52.831
<v SPEAKER_2>We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.

02:11:52.831 --> 02:11:58.711
<v SPEAKER_2>No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

02:11:58.711 --> 02:12:15.291
<v SPEAKER_2>For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

02:12:17.571 --> 02:12:21.911
<v SPEAKER_2>And the last of the three readings from the Old Testament.

02:12:21.911 --> 02:12:30.191
<v SPEAKER_2>Because of all the things of which I am willing to be accused, I hope that neglecting the Old Testament is never one of them.

02:12:30.251 --> 02:12:31.251
<v SPEAKER_2>And so from Jeremiah.

02:12:33.331 --> 02:12:38.571
<v SPEAKER_2>But the Lord is with me as a dread warrior, therefore my persecutors will stumble.

02:12:38.571 --> 02:12:40.631
<v SPEAKER_2>They will not overcome me.

02:12:40.631 --> 02:12:44.231
<v SPEAKER_2>They will be greatly shamed, for they will not succeed.

02:12:44.231 --> 02:12:47.771
<v SPEAKER_2>Their eternal dishonor will never be forgotten.

02:12:47.771 --> 02:12:58.231
<v SPEAKER_2>O Lord of hosts, who tests the righteous, who sees the heart and the mind, let me see your vengeance upon them, for to you have I committed my cause.

02:12:59.391 --> 02:12:59.791
<v SPEAKER_2>Amen.