Transcript: Episode 0001
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WEBVTT 00:30.000 --> 00:42.640 Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast. 00:42.640 --> 00:47.920 I am Corey J. Moller, and I'm well in this episode, we will be discussing the issues 00:47.920 --> 00:52.920 of headship, teaching, and women in the church. 00:52.920 --> 01:00.760 So the question that's been raging lately on the Lutheran Twitter sphere has been 01:00.760 --> 01:03.040 Can Girls Teach. 01:03.040 --> 01:07.280 It's an interesting question because it's not a Lutheran question, it's one that's been 01:07.280 --> 01:12.760 really facing the whole church for Japan, how far back you go centuries, but certainly 01:12.760 --> 01:18.320 in the last 50 years, Can Girls Teach has been in the forefront of what's happening in 01:18.320 --> 01:20.760 our Christian churches. 01:21.480 --> 01:25.640 The reason we're going to talk about it today is that in part, that's not actually the 01:25.640 --> 01:27.600 right form of the question. 01:27.600 --> 01:31.800 Form of the question is May Girls Teach, but before we can answer that, we have to answer 01:31.800 --> 01:35.600 a few predicate questions to define our terms. 01:35.600 --> 01:40.120 The first is, what is a girl, what is a woman, where did they come from, what are they 01:40.120 --> 01:46.240 for, and then once we understand that, we can add, address the question, what is teaching? 01:46.240 --> 01:51.840 So Corey, what is a girl? 01:51.840 --> 01:59.560 Well a girl is defined in part, you could define a girl as in contrast to a man, and what 01:59.560 --> 02:06.600 a girl is, is a help meet, woman is made for man, not man for woman, as scripture very 02:06.600 --> 02:15.240 clearly states, and so woman is made in Genesis 1. 02:15.240 --> 02:20.880 We have, of course, we have the more elaborate detail later on in Genesis, but we have in 02:20.880 --> 02:22.760 Genesis 1.27. 02:22.760 --> 02:27.440 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female 02:27.440 --> 02:33.120 he created them, and of course we'll get to some of the grammar and such there a little 02:33.120 --> 02:41.560 bit later, but the whole purpose of a girl is to help her husband, before she has a husband, 02:41.560 --> 02:43.560 it's to help her family. 02:43.560 --> 02:50.080 But that is the purpose of a girl, it is not to be an equal or a competitor to man, 02:50.080 --> 02:55.720 which is sort of what we've allowed girls to become today. 02:55.720 --> 03:00.720 So we have in Genesis 1.27, so God created man in his own image, in the image of God he 03:00.720 --> 03:06.280 created him, male and female he created them. 03:06.280 --> 03:16.120 Now the question of course arises here, is woman is the female made in the image of God? 03:16.120 --> 03:21.560 And we have other places in scripture that will shed light on this, because man is the 03:21.560 --> 03:25.040 glory of God, man is made in the image of God. 03:25.040 --> 03:31.640 Woman is the glory of man, so there's a difference there, is woman ultimately made in the image 03:31.640 --> 03:37.560 of God, yes, in a transitive sense, because she's the image and glory of man who is the 03:37.560 --> 03:39.800 image and glory of God. 03:39.800 --> 03:47.880 And we have that here in Genesis 1.27, because if you actually look at Genesis 1.27, what 03:47.880 --> 03:50.400 is said there? 03:50.400 --> 04:01.160 God created man in his own image, and that is of course masculine singular man. 04:01.160 --> 04:07.880 In the image of God he created him, and again masculine singular. 04:07.880 --> 04:12.560 And then, and the ESV actually does a good job here because there's a semicolon after him, 04:12.560 --> 04:16.080 and then male and female he created them. 04:16.080 --> 04:22.320 Related matter, not the exact same thing, there is a distinction, even here, in the very 04:22.320 --> 04:27.400 beginning, between man and woman and the creation of man and woman. 04:27.400 --> 04:30.160 So what is woman made to do? 04:30.160 --> 04:35.480 She is made to be a help meet, she is made to help her husband, and there's actually 04:35.480 --> 04:43.000 some useful language from Luther here in his actually volume 1, in the American edition, 04:43.000 --> 04:47.920 because the first eight volumes are Luther's commentary on Genesis. 04:47.920 --> 04:54.880 So for Luther's commentary here for Genesis 1.27, I'll skip the first couple paragraphs 04:54.880 --> 04:59.280 here, they're just about similitude and image and comment on the sentences. 04:59.280 --> 05:04.240 But male and female he created them, and this is a quote from Luther. 05:04.240 --> 05:09.200 In order not to give the impression that he was excluding the woman from all the glory 05:09.200 --> 05:13.760 of the future life, Moses includes each of the two sexes. 05:13.760 --> 05:18.240 For the woman appears to be a somewhat different being from the man, having different members 05:18.240 --> 05:20.120 and a much weaker nature. 05:20.120 --> 05:24.480 Although Eve was a most extraordinary creature, similar to Adam so far as the image of God 05:24.480 --> 05:30.600 is concerned, that is, in justice, wisdom and happiness, she was nevertheless a woman. 05:30.600 --> 05:34.560 For as the son is more excellent than the moon, although the moon too was a very excellent 05:34.560 --> 05:39.840 body, so the woman, although she was the most beautiful work of God, nevertheless was 05:39.840 --> 05:44.560 not the equal of the male in glory and prestige. 05:44.560 --> 05:51.360 And so Luther properly recognizes that even in the garden, before the fall, in the state 05:51.360 --> 05:56.160 of perfection, woman is not equal to man. 05:56.160 --> 05:58.400 Men and women are different. 05:58.400 --> 06:02.800 The girl was made for the man, not vice versa. 06:02.800 --> 06:08.720 I think you mentioned early the transitive property, and I'm sure there are people listening 06:08.720 --> 06:13.440 who think that we are denying that women are made in the image of God. 06:13.440 --> 06:21.320 And that's not the point, but it's a subtle distinction that relies on the sort of 06:22.120 --> 06:26.840 reason that really isn't taught anymore that people don't understand, don't think in those terms. 06:26.840 --> 06:31.800 So when you say similar to and you say transitive property, what are you actually saying? 06:31.800 --> 06:35.960 What is the A to B and B to see doing in this scenario? 06:39.080 --> 06:46.200 The point that we are attempting to make is that if you say that two things are entirely equal, 06:46.200 --> 06:49.800 of course, well, that gets into the laws of logic then because two things that can't be 06:49.800 --> 06:55.560 distinguished are of course the same thing. But if man is made in the image of God, 06:55.560 --> 07:00.600 to be made in the image of God means something, it does not mean to be equal to God, 07:00.600 --> 07:04.200 it does not mean to be identical to God because of course it cannot mean that, 07:04.200 --> 07:06.600 because we are finite, God is infinite. 07:06.600 --> 07:12.360 And so if we are created in the image of God, we are a lesser creature than God. 07:13.880 --> 07:19.160 Woman is made in the image of man. Woman is a lesser creature than man. 07:19.400 --> 07:27.320 Still made in the image of God. Still partakes of if she is Christian, salvation and the eternal life, 07:27.960 --> 07:31.880 the good version of the eternal life, you do get the other one if you're not a Christian. 07:32.520 --> 07:36.760 But she is a lesser creature, but still made in the image of God. 07:37.400 --> 07:40.680 There's that difference there. It's important to note that difference. 07:42.440 --> 07:46.760 What is an image in the internet age? We just think of JPEGs. 07:47.640 --> 07:53.880 Frankly, that's about as far as people can take it. But when theologians talk about image, 07:53.880 --> 08:03.400 what does that mean? Well, we could actually go to the Greek here so we can perhaps address 08:03.400 --> 08:09.240 some potential pastoral detractors because what does it actually say in the Greek? 08:09.320 --> 08:17.400 Icona. It's an icon or an idol. Man is meant to image or to represent God in creation. 08:17.400 --> 08:26.360 So man is the pinnacle of creation. Man is at the top of the hierarchy. Man represents God 08:26.360 --> 08:31.560 to creation. And that is what man is supposed to do. And we still have this to some degree today. 08:31.560 --> 08:37.480 Yes, it is to some degree lost and corrupted because of the fall. But if you have a dog, 08:37.640 --> 08:42.360 particularly if you selected well and have a good breed, your dog is going to look to you. 08:43.640 --> 08:48.600 After a fashion, as if you were God, because your dog looks to you for everything good in his life, 08:48.600 --> 08:52.840 he looks to you for food, for shelter, for warmth, for care, affection, 08:53.480 --> 09:00.760 your dog looks to you as the representative of God in creation. So your dog is not necessarily 09:00.760 --> 09:05.880 looking exactly through you to God, but after a fashion, that is what's happening. And that is how 09:06.760 --> 09:15.400 woman properly interfaces and interacts with God because the wife is not the head. The husband is 09:15.400 --> 09:20.360 the head. And so the body interacts with the head, the head interacts with God. That's how things 09:20.360 --> 09:27.320 are supposed to work. There's a natural hierarchy there. There's a footnote reference that is also 09:27.320 --> 09:34.200 relevant from the same work in Lutheran references. Luther's later comments on marriage. And it's 09:34.200 --> 09:39.560 important to to bring this up as well, because I'm sure we'll discuss marriage a little more 09:39.560 --> 09:46.600 shortly. But what appears in the Latin text Luther was reading the Vulgate, as likened to himself 09:46.600 --> 09:52.920 is in Hebrew, which should be about him. With this expression, the text also makes a difference 09:52.920 --> 09:58.040 between the human female and the females of all the remaining animals, which are not always 09:58.040 --> 10:03.640 about their mates. The woman was so created that she should everywhere and always be about her 10:03.640 --> 10:09.720 husband. Thus imperial law also calls the life of married people an inseparable relationship. 10:10.280 --> 10:15.000 The female of the Brutes has a desire for the male only once in a whole year. But after she 10:15.000 --> 10:19.400 has become pregnant, she returns to her home and takes care of herself. For her young born another 10:19.400 --> 10:24.600 time, she has no concern, and she does not always live with her mate. But among men, the nature of 10:24.600 --> 10:30.440 marriage is different. There the wife so binds herself to a man that she will be about him and will 10:30.440 --> 10:39.080 live together with him as one flesh. And so there is this difference between man and the wild 10:39.080 --> 10:44.600 creatures. Now, perhaps the wild creatures were somewhat different before the fall, but 10:45.640 --> 10:53.240 his point about woman is very important to note. What does it say in Scripture about the wife? 10:53.960 --> 11:01.320 She is to obey her husband in everything as she would obey the Lord. That is an exceptionally 11:01.320 --> 11:07.720 high bar. And so woman is supposed to be about her husband, which makes perfect sense if you 11:07.720 --> 11:14.200 understand headship. Because the head is in charge. The body is supposed to follow the head. Your 11:14.200 --> 11:19.240 foot isn't supposed to tell you, no, I don't feel like going for a walk today. That's not how things 11:19.240 --> 11:27.000 are supposed to work. We were talking about this privately recently that until the last really 11:27.640 --> 11:36.600 two generations maybe, whenever a married woman was referenced by a third party, it was as Mrs. 11:36.600 --> 11:43.240 Robert Price. It was never by her first name. Sure, she didn't have her own distinct identity 11:43.240 --> 11:49.720 apart from her husband. And that's one of the things that feminism has sought in greater 11:49.720 --> 11:57.560 nessness for 100 years to cast down to ensure that every woman can be defined entirely apart from 11:57.560 --> 12:05.240 any man, whether it's her father or her husband or the absence of husband. The essence of feminism 12:05.800 --> 12:14.280 is ultimately that girls are first party members of everything and therefore must be granted 12:14.280 --> 12:20.440 all of the same privileges and ultimately the same authority that men have because we're all 12:20.440 --> 12:28.120 the same. And Christians hear those things that did not originate within Christianity. They hear 12:28.120 --> 12:34.520 them and they try to find in scripture where they can justify them. And so you end up people 12:34.600 --> 12:40.040 making an argument about the Amago Dei that, well, yes, women were made an image of God too. So 12:40.680 --> 12:45.000 of course they can do all these things. And that's why we're discussing this right up front is that 12:45.720 --> 12:52.440 the headship that predates the fall, the headship that is the very essence of the created order 12:53.080 --> 12:59.480 is not set of, it is, it's damaged by the fall. It is harmed in its unity by the fall, 12:59.480 --> 13:06.120 but is not set aside. And it's not set aside in redemption either when we are sanctified by Christ 13:06.120 --> 13:15.480 when we are a new creation as brothers in Christ in scripture refers to girls as brothers in 13:15.480 --> 13:20.600 Christ as well for the sake of inheritance, which is something we may not get to today. But if you 13:20.600 --> 13:27.080 read the passages where Paul deals with inheritance, he refers to everyone as a son of God, whether 13:27.080 --> 13:34.920 they're male or female, because inheritance had to belong to the man. And so these categories 13:34.920 --> 13:41.080 in these terms are not, they're not cultural things that we have just sort of read about recently 13:41.080 --> 13:46.840 online and decided that we need to fight over about the Bible. This is how scripture talks about 13:46.840 --> 13:53.640 what God has done in creation since the beginning. And these attacks coming from outside the church 13:53.720 --> 13:59.320 are fundamental attacks on creation itself. And I think as Lutherans, we're not good at 13:59.320 --> 14:05.400 defending attacks against creation because Lutheranism was defined when the attack was against 14:05.400 --> 14:10.920 sanctification and justification. And we were not fighting the Pope anymore, we're fighting, 14:11.560 --> 14:18.120 we're fighting people who deny the first three books of the Bible. And that that's part of this 14:18.360 --> 14:24.520 fight as well. You know, Satan doesn't sleep and he's realized that he can attack us 14:25.480 --> 14:31.160 at something that is tangential and yet still very much connected to the fight that we had 14:31.960 --> 14:39.960 centuries ago. And when it comes to the issue of the use of either the masculine or the feminine 14:39.960 --> 14:46.520 pronouns and such, there are those who will try to argue that, well, the masculine encompasses 14:46.520 --> 14:53.080 the feminine grammatically. And one, there's some irony there because these will be the same people 14:53.080 --> 14:58.600 who like to say she and he, they'll even go so far as to list both and list the feminine first, 14:58.600 --> 15:05.320 just completely throwing grammar aside. But they are correct that the masculine can encompass 15:05.320 --> 15:11.720 the feminine because as we've discussed previously in Latin, if there's a group of a thousand 15:11.720 --> 15:17.080 women and one man, you use the masculine because that's just how it works. And that's how it works 15:17.080 --> 15:25.960 in most languages typically. However, scripture does have places where it says he or she, 15:25.960 --> 15:32.200 effectively, because they man or woman. And so scripture is very clear when men and women are 15:32.200 --> 15:37.800 being addressed separately or when they are being addressed collectively. And so most of the 15:37.800 --> 15:43.000 scripture is in fact written with a male audience in mind. It is written toward men. And that is 15:43.000 --> 15:47.720 of course only right as we even recognize, of course, in the small catechism, as the head of the 15:47.720 --> 15:53.000 household should teach his household. Guess that's how it works. The head is supposed to teach. 15:55.640 --> 16:03.720 It's funny. You mentioned the the fact that we, we look at those language features as quirks, 16:04.520 --> 16:11.160 let's just the sexist, misogynistic past. When in reality, those ancient languages reflected 16:11.160 --> 16:16.440 headship, they reflected created order, they reflected a basic fundamental understanding of what 16:16.440 --> 16:23.480 we're trying to establish with this episode, which is that the presence of a man in a community, 16:23.480 --> 16:28.600 even if it's a one-to-many relationship with one man and lots of women, the man is in charge 16:28.680 --> 16:35.320 period by default. There cannot be an exception if you want to be godly and we're up against a lot 16:35.320 --> 16:40.360 of people, including a lot of pastors who just don't buy that. There are pastors who are very proud 16:40.360 --> 16:48.520 about the fact that they have girls teaching at synodical conferences, teachings theology to pastors. 16:48.520 --> 16:53.320 And I think it's the best thing ever. They're so delighted to be so progressive and so 16:53.320 --> 17:00.680 forward-looking in such celebrators of the quote-unquote gospel. When in reality, what they're doing is 17:00.680 --> 17:07.800 a abdicating their own offices on the spot and be defiling and mocking gods created order. 17:08.360 --> 17:14.280 And they're doing it in a very public way and they're doing it unrepentantly. And I pray that 17:14.280 --> 17:18.920 people will begin to take this issue more seriously because it's not, it's not a small 17:18.920 --> 17:25.880 linguistic matter and it's not about publishing books. It's about whether we submit to God 17:26.600 --> 17:33.160 and if we as all Christians submit to God, then all girls will submit to men in all cases. 17:33.160 --> 17:37.880 There's not a case where a girl cannot submit to a man. There's a question of order. There's 17:37.880 --> 17:43.320 a question of hierarchy and not every girl automatically submits to every man. But the factor 17:44.280 --> 17:50.040 remains, a man will always be in the lead and on top in the superior position. And as you 17:50.040 --> 17:57.400 mentioned, men are superior. And that's something that just sets the egalitarian mind on edge today 17:57.400 --> 18:04.440 because the idea that superior and inferior must necessarily reflect the value of those involved. 18:04.440 --> 18:10.360 And it's simply not the case. If you have a general and you have a colonel, the general is his 18:10.360 --> 18:15.800 superior. That's literally what it's called. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a better soldier. 18:15.800 --> 18:21.480 He might be. He should be. But it means that he is in the superior position and his authority 18:21.480 --> 18:27.800 must be obeyed because of his position. And what God has revealed in Scripture is that man 18:28.520 --> 18:34.920 is superior by virtue of the position that he holds in creation over all of it. And you mentioned 18:34.920 --> 18:41.640 earlier that man was over all of creation. That's why all of creation fell when when Jesus died 18:41.640 --> 18:49.880 in redeemed creation. He didn't just pay for our personal sins. He paid for the disobedient 18:49.880 --> 18:55.320 tree that he cursed that didn't produce fruit. And he paid for the wind that he had to rebuke 18:55.320 --> 19:00.040 because it was blowing and trying to kill them. All of creation fell. And while we wouldn't 19:00.360 --> 19:07.000 categorize the disobedience of creation as sin per se, it is the result of the fall. It's the 19:07.000 --> 19:14.680 result of everything that was under Adam's dominion having lost that proper order. And you will 19:14.680 --> 19:20.280 see, as you mentioned, there's there's a reflection of this thing where sometimes that order is 19:20.280 --> 19:25.720 still properly established where your dog should obey you and your dog shouldn't naturally obey 19:26.440 --> 19:31.640 you. But you must assert your superiority. And in dog training, one of the worst, really the 19:31.640 --> 19:37.080 worst mistake you can make is letting your dog run wild. If your dog is in charge, if your dog 19:37.080 --> 19:43.560 is calling the shots, he will think, well, there's a hierarchy and you're not on top. So I must be. 19:43.560 --> 19:48.760 And as soon as your dog realizes that he's going to run wild and you will never get him back under 19:48.760 --> 19:56.680 control. And that reality does not only apply to animals. It applies to people too, where there is 19:56.680 --> 20:02.600 an order and it is usurped. There's no way to get it properly restored without a lot of pain 20:02.600 --> 20:06.680 because everyone is like, well, hey, I was getting away with it. Why should I stop now? 20:07.960 --> 20:15.240 And we're at the tail end of a century or so of exactly that people just running entirely wild 20:15.320 --> 20:20.520 and doing as they please. And as you mentioned, egalitarianism, we have these priors, these 20:20.520 --> 20:26.120 presuppositions that we inherited from the Enlightenment and they go completely unexamined. 20:26.840 --> 20:33.160 And so this presupposition, this egalitarian prior, this belief that all men are created equal 20:34.040 --> 20:41.800 is just false. It is objectively, demonstrably false and we all know it because we have all been 20:41.800 --> 20:48.280 in a situation where someone was either significantly better or significantly worse at something 20:48.920 --> 20:55.800 than we were at the time. And so there are those who are significantly better at task A, those who 20:55.800 --> 21:02.520 are significantly better at task B. They're not equal with respect to those tasks at which they 21:02.520 --> 21:07.800 are better or worse. And the same thing is true of human attributes. There are those who are 21:07.800 --> 21:13.160 more intelligent. There are more those who are more attractive. There are all sorts of differences. 21:13.160 --> 21:21.560 Man to man is not equal. Man to woman is certainly not equal. And so these fundamentally flawed 21:21.560 --> 21:29.640 priors that we have imported from the secular world from objectively, aggressively, godless world 21:30.600 --> 21:36.280 are just corrupting the church because they go unexamined and even pastors have bought into them. 21:36.280 --> 21:42.280 And we see that like you mentioned when they have women stand up and speak at even worse teach, 21:42.280 --> 21:50.840 but just speaking at a pastor's conference. That is that enlightenment coming back to bite us because 21:50.840 --> 21:58.280 well, we are truly progressive and we are including women and you're not being inclusive. You're not 21:58.280 --> 22:02.600 being progressive and we can discuss whether progressive is even a good thing, but it's not is the 22:02.600 --> 22:09.560 short version. What you are doing is undermining what God built. You are undermining his order. 22:09.560 --> 22:17.240 You are being faithless if you are a pastor to your office. And actually I almost skipped over 22:17.240 --> 22:24.280 something that is worth mentioning with regard to Genesis 127 because we miss it in the English. 22:24.280 --> 22:29.400 And this is one of those cases where it actually surprisingly Hebrew helps a little bit 22:30.360 --> 22:38.280 because it's even more blatant what is being said in Genesis 127 in the Hebrew because we have 22:38.280 --> 22:44.840 of course Anthropone in the Greek, but what word is that translating from the Hebrew Adam? 22:45.720 --> 22:53.080 The word for man is Adam. So you have, he made the man Adam in his image. 22:53.080 --> 23:01.080 There is no missing what is being said there. Adam is the one who is made in the truest, 23:01.080 --> 23:07.080 strictest and highest sense in the image of God. And specifically Adam because all of us who 23:07.080 --> 23:13.720 followed after him are fallen until of course we get to the new Adam. Absolutely. 23:14.920 --> 23:20.360 You had mentioned or referred back to talking about the pastor's conferences and girls teaching 23:20.360 --> 23:25.080 pastors anything it's time to move on to defining what teaching is. 23:28.200 --> 23:34.200 First I just want to go over the fall because I want to point out something vitally important 23:34.200 --> 23:43.480 about women in the fall. And so of course in the fall God's cursing of creation. You have first 23:43.480 --> 23:48.600 the serpent who is essentially just dismissed. There's no discussion here because the serpent is 23:48.600 --> 23:55.880 just cursed because of course it's Satan. But to the woman he said, I will surely multiply your 23:55.880 --> 24:02.440 pain in childbearing. In pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband 24:03.160 --> 24:09.160 and he shall rule over you. But of course as has been mentioned a number of times by a number of 24:09.160 --> 24:14.840 commentators that your desire shall be for your husband is actually better rendered into the English 24:15.000 --> 24:20.920 as your desire shall be against your husband. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband. 24:20.920 --> 24:29.240 And so how is woman cursed? Woman is cursed in the same not the same exact way but in the same 24:29.240 --> 24:36.200 sense as man is cursed. Man is cursed with regard to the soil of course by the sweat of your face 24:36.200 --> 24:45.640 you shall eat bread because the curse falls on the core of the duties what that person is. 24:45.640 --> 24:50.920 And so man is cursed with regard to his work because work isn't supposed to be labor and toil. 24:50.920 --> 24:55.080 Work was something God made for us to do. It's one of the things we are supposed to do 24:55.800 --> 25:04.840 but it was not suffering before the fall. And so woman is cursed in two ways. Really one way to 25:04.840 --> 25:12.680 aspects of it. She is cursed with regard to womanhood, motherhood, and of course being a wife 25:13.800 --> 25:19.800 all tied together. She is cursed in regard to being a mother by having childbearing be painful. 25:19.800 --> 25:26.520 It is now a process that will come at a cost that was not the case before the fall. And so that 25:26.520 --> 25:33.160 strikes at the core of what woman is supposed to be which is wife and mother. And so the desire 25:34.120 --> 25:39.640 against your husband strikes at that other aspect, the central aspect of being a wife because 25:39.640 --> 25:49.080 first wife then mother. And so woman after the fall desires to rule. She desires to usurp the 25:49.080 --> 25:55.480 office that rightly belongs to her husband. She desires to become head. And that is the case 25:56.200 --> 26:01.800 even for women who are attempting to live as they ought and to behave as they ought. 26:02.920 --> 26:09.320 Those women will struggle against that sinful nature in themselves and will try to suppress 26:09.320 --> 26:14.440 the desire to usurp the office of their husbands, to actually submit to their husbands as they 26:14.440 --> 26:19.080 are commanded to do and as they would have been able to do without effort prior to the fall. 26:19.880 --> 26:26.120 But today of course, it requires effort on the part of both the woman and the man. 26:26.840 --> 26:33.240 And man's head of course has the higher duty. He has to keep the women in his life under control. 26:33.800 --> 26:37.480 That is part of what it means to be the head. That is part of what it means to be a man. 26:39.480 --> 26:43.000 As you mentioned there, I just want to reiterate this because it's so important. 26:43.400 --> 26:50.360 And man's work was cursed. His work is a ground. Woman's work is cursed. Her work is childbearing 26:50.360 --> 26:56.760 and obviously child rearing, raising children. Her work is in cursed in the field because she 26:56.760 --> 27:03.800 shouldn't properly be in the field. The man should be providing. Yes, there's that too. 27:05.720 --> 27:11.880 There's two types of working the field that man does. Woman is a field. Indeed. 27:11.880 --> 27:19.880 And to get back to what I said about feminism, it exists to upend all of this, all of it. 27:19.880 --> 27:28.840 First wave, second wave, there's no version of the pro-female machinations in the secular or 27:28.840 --> 27:35.960 religious well realm. They can be sanctified. You cannot take Scripture and take 19th and 20th 27:35.960 --> 27:42.680 century values and somehow legitimize them. And that's something we'll get into in a little bit. 27:42.680 --> 27:47.800 But there's the genealogy these ideas that we need to take seriously because people want to 27:47.800 --> 27:52.440 just grab whatever from the world, which is something that we were actually accused of tonight 27:52.440 --> 27:57.640 by one of the pastors on Twitter of just sort of borrowing cultural things and importing them 27:57.640 --> 28:02.920 into Christianity. Nothing to be further from the truth. All we're doing is pointing to Scripture. 28:02.920 --> 28:07.640 We're having to point to Scripture about the issue of girls teaching and girls writing books 28:07.640 --> 28:14.840 in doing this other work that rightly belongs to men exclusively because, as you said, even 28:14.840 --> 28:18.840 well-meeting, well-intentioned, otherwise faithful Christian men and women 28:20.120 --> 28:25.160 have been so secularized that they don't know they're being secular. They don't know that they're 28:25.160 --> 28:30.680 being worldly when they whitenite for girls who are doing things that they shouldn't be doing. 28:30.680 --> 28:34.440 And when a man speaks up and says, hey, that's not your job. 28:35.560 --> 28:41.160 There's a dog pile against the man who's pointing to Scripture in defense of a girl who is usurping 28:41.160 --> 28:44.040 her father, her son, her husband, and God himself. 28:47.800 --> 28:53.720 And it just comes back to we live at the tail end of generations of faithlessness. And that is a 28:53.720 --> 29:00.360 very hard thing to undo because you have these presuppositions and these priors and indoctrination. 29:00.360 --> 29:05.240 It's not even right to call it education over a course of decades, almost a century, 29:05.800 --> 29:10.840 generations where they have just wholesale adopted the secular culture. 29:12.120 --> 29:19.080 And that comes out everywhere. Just look at the, you could look at the timeline and see what happens. 29:19.080 --> 29:25.000 Well, we have the 19th Amendment. Now women are able to exercise political power, which of course 29:25.000 --> 29:30.040 is an exercise of headship. And we can discuss whether it's right for all men to exercise that 29:30.040 --> 29:35.400 even. Of course, it's not, but it is absolutely wrong for women to exercise it. And what does the 29:35.400 --> 29:40.680 church do in response? Well, now women can vote in our congregations. It follows the culture. 29:40.680 --> 29:47.960 It doesn't follow Scripture. It doesn't listen because we know what the church is. The church is a 29:47.960 --> 29:55.560 harlot. The church rebels against Christ in the same way Eve rebels against Adam in the same 29:55.560 --> 30:02.280 way woman rebels against man. And Christ has to bring the church back to himself. Man has to 30:02.280 --> 30:08.440 bring woman back to himself. It is that constant fight against that fallen nature until things are 30:08.440 --> 30:16.120 perfected in the new creation. Absolutely. And I, I think one of the problems that we struggle with 30:16.120 --> 30:23.240 is that so many pastors and others want to define these battles and terms of the quote unquote 30:23.240 --> 30:29.880 culture war as though there's somehow this political sphere that exists sort of in the in the 30:29.880 --> 30:36.680 periphery or in the distance. And people are importing political things into the church and into 30:36.680 --> 30:42.760 the Christian life. And it's sometimes it's causing harm and sometimes it's doing good. And what 30:42.760 --> 30:50.040 happens is when everyone has a tendency to think, well, I'm a Christian. And I'm not sorry for 30:50.280 --> 30:54.920 anything I'm doing right now. Therefore everything I'm doing right now and everything I believe 30:54.920 --> 31:00.920 must be Christian because I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible. So it's not possible for me to be 31:00.920 --> 31:07.960 disobeying God in an idolatrous and wicked way because I love God. And that is the exact 31:07.960 --> 31:12.360 opposite of what Christians should be thinking. And frankly, it's what we're accused. I've 31:12.360 --> 31:18.680 worked used of ignoring what Scripture says in doing what we want. And I personally find that 31:18.680 --> 31:25.000 laughable because if I were to invent a religion, it would absolutely not be Christianity. If I wanted 31:25.000 --> 31:29.480 to make up my own rules, there would be a lot more some things and a lot less of others. It would 31:29.480 --> 31:36.360 not look like what we do. This is not self-serving. When I open Scripture to any page, I see myself 31:36.360 --> 31:44.120 in my own personal sims condemned. And so it's no surprise to me when I examine my priors after 31:44.120 --> 31:50.280 decades of believing, for example, things like libertarianism were fine. I never examine those 31:50.280 --> 31:54.680 priors. They were sold to me by Christians. There were Christians who said, oh, yeah, this is great. 31:54.680 --> 31:59.800 This is fine. It's political. It's totally consistent with God's word. It's in this separate 31:59.800 --> 32:05.240 sphere. So to have fun, it's better than communism. Like, well, I don't like communism. So libertarian 32:05.240 --> 32:14.280 ism must be fine. And so when we escape from examining our priors rigorously as they relate 32:14.280 --> 32:19.480 to Scripture, you can justify anything. And the problem is what we're facing now is that 32:21.080 --> 32:27.640 proof texting is a terrible thing. And it's something that's easy to do and it's hard to get 32:27.640 --> 32:33.960 away from. But it's why I mentioned the genealogy of ideas earlier. And also we both talked about the 32:34.040 --> 32:42.040 timeline of these things. There's a timeline of what women have done in the church, what women 32:42.040 --> 32:48.600 have done in the home, what women have done in the workplace. In every century, where Christianity 32:48.600 --> 32:56.360 exists, you will see roles of a certain nature. Like I said, the outset, Mrs. Robert Price was 32:56.360 --> 33:04.680 married to Mr. Robert Price or Dr. Robert Price. Her identity was as her husband's wife, 33:04.680 --> 33:10.920 first and foremost, to him. He didn't call her Mrs. Robert Price because she belonged to him. 33:10.920 --> 33:15.400 He called her in a much more personal way, but strangers or those who were not intimately 33:15.400 --> 33:25.320 familiar as they were should not do that. And that was the norm until our grandparents basically. 33:25.320 --> 33:30.360 And what's happening everywhere now is this is a Lutheran problem. This is a societal problem. 33:31.000 --> 33:36.360 And it's the reason that the quote-unquote based and trad crowd constantly gets dragged by 33:36.360 --> 33:41.320 these pastors is that we're skipping right over all the crap that they've been selling us 33:41.320 --> 33:45.960 and their grandparents have been selling us. And we're looking back to prior centuries. And 33:46.840 --> 33:54.120 I think that Lutherans are particularly vulnerable to rejecting appeals to history because Rome did 33:54.120 --> 33:58.920 it to us when Luther popped up and is like, Hey, I'm reading the Bible and I'm not finding this 33:58.920 --> 34:04.200 stuff you're teaching. I think we're doing it wrong. Their argument was, well, we've been doing this 34:04.200 --> 34:09.400 for forever. The church has always believed this and said, you're wrong. And he said, but scripture 34:09.400 --> 34:14.440 says otherwise. And then his others have mentioned he and he and the other Lutherans basically invented 34:14.440 --> 34:20.600 a pitristics to demonstrate that no actually many in the church didn't believe what we believe 34:20.680 --> 34:26.680 in the 16th century and today. And it was in fact Rome who had departed from tradition. 34:27.480 --> 34:37.080 So tradition appeals are not per se invalid, but they are, they can either be good or bad. 34:37.080 --> 34:42.280 They always need to be examined in terms of their priors. And the priors in Latin and Greek and 34:42.280 --> 34:49.560 these other languages were that women had headship under men. The woman was the body that man was the 34:49.560 --> 34:55.480 head. And so that's reflected even in the most basically linguistic elements. It's reflected in 34:55.480 --> 35:02.280 job roles of which the woman existed in the home to be helped me to her husband in his household 35:02.280 --> 35:09.240 for his, his vocation, whatever it was. She was to act and service to that and everything that she 35:09.240 --> 35:20.920 did. A woman is given by the father to the husband to be married. And that is a transfer of title 35:20.920 --> 35:28.040 that no one wants to deal with today. But even the even the forms of the ceremony and the ways 35:28.040 --> 35:34.040 we describe things, at least until very recently, reflected the past that the fact that the headship 35:34.120 --> 35:39.400 went from the father to the husband. And that is godly and that is proper. And wherever you have 35:39.400 --> 35:45.880 girls acting in a way that is contrary to the dominion of either a husband or a father, 35:46.760 --> 35:51.400 whatever they do after that is inherently illegitimate because they're in rebellion. They're 35:51.400 --> 35:58.600 in open rebellion by virtue of their life. And that's also the norm today. And we see pastors 35:58.680 --> 36:03.800 worrying about, well, where do I send my girl to college? And we beg them, please, please don't. 36:03.800 --> 36:07.960 Don't send them to college. Your daughter will become a whore in college, even if she goes to 36:07.960 --> 36:12.680 a Lutheran college. And it was like, oh, no, well, the Christian colleges are fine. It's the 36:12.680 --> 36:18.120 it's those pagans like, no, it isn't. It is rebellion for her to leave your household without 36:18.120 --> 36:24.440 being sent to a man's house to be his husband. And because we've spent so many decades in 36:24.520 --> 36:30.200 now centuries in engaging in some of these activities that we think that since we're Christian, 36:30.200 --> 36:34.680 it must be fine. When in fact, we're Christian, we've been told better when the world hasn't. 36:34.680 --> 36:40.680 And not only we disobey God, but we are setting the worst example for others. And so when the 36:40.680 --> 36:46.840 based and trad crowd looks at what our own churches are teaching today, and they see it's inconsistent 36:46.840 --> 36:51.160 with scripture and with the history of the Christian church, they just look elsewhere because 36:51.160 --> 36:59.160 we don't look Christian to them in they're not wrong. It's absolutely true. And we have the 36:59.160 --> 37:07.720 serious problem where we actually have pagans who are being more faithful in some ways than Christians. 37:07.720 --> 37:13.880 Of course, they're wrong when it comes to the core theological questions. They're wrong, 37:13.880 --> 37:19.240 obviously, unjustification and soteriology. They don't understand those things. But when it comes 37:19.320 --> 37:24.920 to ontology, when it comes to creation, when it comes to the nature of God, there are a lot of 37:24.920 --> 37:32.840 pagans who understand it a lot better than most Christians, including many pastors. And that is not 37:34.440 --> 37:39.240 what we need to have happening. We cannot permit that because as you mentioned, what does that do? 37:39.240 --> 37:43.560 It drives all the young men out of the church. And if you drive all the young men out of the church, 37:43.560 --> 37:49.640 you have killed the church. The church cannot exist with just women. That's not a church. 37:50.200 --> 37:56.760 The church has to have men, not least of all because only men can be pastors, but also because men 37:56.760 --> 38:01.960 as head have to be the ones in charge, have to be the ones who are teaching. And some men 38:03.720 --> 38:08.760 are simply resorting to permitting women to do these things because those men are lazy. They are 38:08.840 --> 38:13.480 derelict in their duty. They don't want to have to do the things they are supposed to do. So they 38:13.480 --> 38:17.880 figured, well, women are good enough at it. Or even if you find a woman who is better at it, 38:17.880 --> 38:22.760 it is still the man's duty to do the task if it falls within the things assigned to man. 38:23.800 --> 38:27.240 But those men don't want to do it because it's so much easier if you just let women do it. And you 38:27.240 --> 38:32.120 don't have to fight with them then. Woman is naturally rebellious. You are going to have to 38:32.840 --> 38:37.560 train a woman. You're going to have to train a wife. You are going to have to deal with this constant 38:37.560 --> 38:42.920 desire she has because she is a fallen creature. And the curse that she has is rebellion 38:42.920 --> 38:47.880 against rightful authority. You have to deal with that. And most men, today at least don't want to 38:47.880 --> 38:50.920 have to deal with it. And you don't have to deal with it if you just let her do whatever she wants. 38:51.720 --> 38:57.240 But if you let her do whatever she wants, she will tear down everything. She will tear down society 38:57.240 --> 39:03.400 and the church. And we see that happening. And she will do that even when she is well-meaning 39:03.400 --> 39:08.200 because the very act itself is usurpation. It has nothing to do with good intentions. 39:08.200 --> 39:13.080 It has nothing to do with how well she knows the catechism or loves Jesus. If she's doing these 39:13.080 --> 39:19.000 things, she is acting in an evil way per se. And that must be stopped per se. 39:21.080 --> 39:26.760 And that is one thing that so many pastors and others do not understand or at least refuse to 39:26.760 --> 39:36.120 accept. You can do something that for all appearances is a great thing. It is a good thing. 39:37.000 --> 39:44.120 But because of who you are, because of the actor, because of the nature, the status of the actor, 39:44.120 --> 39:50.040 the act itself is evil. And pastors should understand that. As should every Christian, 39:50.760 --> 39:56.600 particularly Lutherans, because our doctrine on this is exactly correct, is perfectly sound. 39:57.160 --> 40:04.360 If you do good works and you are not a Christian, they are sin. If you go out and feed the homeless, 40:04.360 --> 40:09.960 you provide them with shelter, you clothe them, you visit people in prison, you do all of these 40:09.960 --> 40:17.320 wonderful things, but you aren't a Christian. They're filthy rags. It's sin. None of it is good. 40:17.320 --> 40:23.960 If you are a Christian, the sin that taints those things is removed, is not counted against you 40:23.960 --> 40:29.400 because you are in Christ, again, headship. And because you are in Christ, your good works are good. 40:30.280 --> 40:37.880 And so it is the status of the individual that matters. And so woman cannot exercise headship. 40:37.880 --> 40:43.160 No matter how well she may do it, you can have someone who is extremely good at the task 40:44.120 --> 40:50.200 and is still prohibited from engaging in that task. And we just look at it because we, 40:51.160 --> 40:55.800 at least in the US, we're largely coming at it with this capitalist mindset of what we should 40:55.800 --> 41:01.000 just pick the person who is best at the job and that person should do it. And that's just not how 41:01.000 --> 41:06.600 it works because there are certain people who should or should not do the job. And so, for instance, 41:06.600 --> 41:13.640 you should not have female soldiers. Is there possibly a woman who is a better soldier than a 41:13.640 --> 41:19.480 particular man? Yes, that could happen. Not often, most women are terrible soldiers compared to men, 41:19.480 --> 41:26.120 but you could conceivably find one who is better. But it would still be sin for her to be a soldier, 41:26.120 --> 41:33.000 it would still be sin to permit it because that is a task that is restricted to men. Women should not 41:33.000 --> 41:39.720 be engaged in it. And so we have to understand ontology, the nature of things. And of course, duty. 41:41.880 --> 41:46.920 Absolutely. So let's talk about teaching. That's why we're here today. 41:47.320 --> 41:59.720 Teaching gets to the heart of the Lutheran conception of vocation. Lutherans have this correct 42:00.360 --> 42:09.160 doctrine of vocation. There is the same as vocal. It means a calling. In this case, a calling from 42:09.160 --> 42:16.840 God. It means that God both created you and then called you to a purpose. So there are vocations 42:16.840 --> 42:22.760 like father and husband of being a pastor as a vocation, being a mother as a vocation. 42:23.960 --> 42:31.480 When God calls you into a vocation, there are certain duties that go along with it. And you are 42:31.480 --> 42:38.280 to fulfill those duties, not because it's the job, but because it is your duty to God. You have been 42:38.280 --> 42:45.400 entrusted with the care of whatever that duty is and is obedience to God for a man or a woman 42:45.400 --> 42:55.240 to faithfully execute those duties in his or her vocation. So as we mentioned in the part about 42:55.240 --> 43:03.720 Genesis, there are vocations that rightly, strictly can only belong to men. That which is work, 43:03.720 --> 43:13.080 that which is outside the household, you will find that those both inscripture and elsewhere 43:13.960 --> 43:20.600 rightly belong to men and a girl will not be called to them by God. She may be thrust into them 43:20.600 --> 43:27.320 by evil circumstance or she may be usurping interactions. But if she ends up wearing one of 43:27.560 --> 43:34.280 those hats, it's because she and others have disobeyed God. And so the question that arose on 43:34.280 --> 43:41.400 Twitter in the last few weeks and elsewhere is, is it teaching to write a book? Is it teaching 43:41.400 --> 43:47.560 for a girl to write a book? Is it pastoral teaching for a girl to write a theological book? 43:48.280 --> 43:55.800 So the first thing we need to talk about is whether teaching is inherently done with authority. 43:56.520 --> 44:01.640 And this is where the Lutheran doctrine of vocation completely falls apart. I'm going to say 44:01.640 --> 44:04.760 some things here. They'll probably make a lot of Lutherans very angry because they'll be 44:04.760 --> 44:10.680 uncomfortable with the idea that maybe the way we talk about things can lead to error. But that's 44:10.680 --> 44:15.960 exactly what's out going on here. And we've seen a left and right from especially pastors 44:16.680 --> 44:24.120 discussing the intersection of the passage in 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 regarding 44:24.120 --> 44:32.920 the proper role of women in the church. I have the first Timothy 2 section pulled up your 44:32.920 --> 44:39.800 space. We'll read it so at least we remind people of what it says. Hopefully most of our audience 44:39.800 --> 44:45.160 will be familiar with it, but nevertheless, I desire then that in every place the men should 44:45.160 --> 44:50.440 pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling. Likewise also that women should adorn 44:50.440 --> 44:55.960 themselves in respectable apparel with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and 44:55.960 --> 45:01.800 gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness with good 45:01.800 --> 45:08.600 works. That a woman learn quietly in all submissiveness, I do not permit a woman to teach or to 45:08.600 --> 45:15.480 exercise authority over a man, rather she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve, 45:15.480 --> 45:21.000 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor, yet she will be 45:21.000 --> 45:28.760 saved through childbearing if they continue in faith. Now there's just, I was going to point out 45:28.760 --> 45:33.960 there are a lot of things in there that need to be addressed because there are so many places 45:33.960 --> 45:39.880 that modern Christians and unfortunately many pastors go off the rails. One in particular, 45:39.880 --> 45:46.600 I'll address before we move on to the next part of this, nowhere in there does it say this is 45:46.600 --> 45:53.480 restricted to the church. Nothing in there says it's restricted to the church. In fact, what does it 45:53.480 --> 45:59.960 say? I desire then that in every place, it doesn't say in every church, just in the church, 45:59.960 --> 46:05.960 in houses of worship, in every Christian home. No, it says every place. These are instructions 46:06.040 --> 46:12.680 for life and the appeal is to the order of creation to the nature of men and women. It is not 46:13.480 --> 46:20.360 simply a set of rules for how we conduct things in the church. This is a statement about the reality 46:21.080 --> 46:27.000 of the world in which we live, the reality of man and woman, and just how things should be 46:27.000 --> 46:33.480 conducted, if we are to be Christians in our lives and not just for an hour on Sunday. 46:34.040 --> 46:42.040 Absolutely. If you were to look at that list of things that God commands through 46:42.680 --> 46:49.320 Paul's writing and limit it to one hour during the divine service on Sunday, you would create 46:49.320 --> 46:54.360 hell on earth. If we're going to be given a world where all these things are permissible for 46:54.360 --> 47:01.320 everyone except when they're in church, you have destroyed civilization. And frankly, we're not 47:01.320 --> 47:05.720 far from it when you go through that list of things. As you said, they're all happening. 47:05.720 --> 47:09.480 They're happening outside of church. And then, of course, they're being brought into church 47:09.480 --> 47:16.280 because when Christians fail to listen to God, when Christians are ashamed of what God has said, 47:16.280 --> 47:22.840 and they backpedal, and they circumscribe, and they narrow down God's law until they're so 47:22.840 --> 47:30.040 little of it left that pretty much anyone can buy into it. Satan is one. And that is what we are 47:30.040 --> 47:37.400 battling today. And the reason that I said that the Lutheran doctrine of vocation falls apart. 47:37.400 --> 47:43.560 It's for that very reason. Is it because Timothy is a pastoral epistle and around that, 47:44.360 --> 47:50.200 Paul is describing things within the church. Christians read that and say, well, this can only 47:50.200 --> 47:55.320 apply to the church because I don't want to deal with the implications of it not applying to the 47:55.320 --> 48:02.360 church. If it applies to the grocery store, if it applies to the school, if it applies to 48:02.360 --> 48:07.480 the government, then we're in trouble. I'm in trouble because I am participating in sin. 48:07.480 --> 48:12.920 And I know that I am free from sin. That's kind of where we are. And it's simply false. 48:14.520 --> 48:21.480 It's interesting to note that grammatically, the Holy Spirit says, 48:21.480 --> 48:27.560 little women learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not a woman permit a woman to teach or 48:27.560 --> 48:33.880 to exercise authority. So teaching is separate from exercising authority because there are 48:33.880 --> 48:40.120 kinds of exercising authority that are not teaching. But it is also connected in the same sense 48:40.120 --> 48:45.880 because teaching is a form of the exercise of authority. And that's been one of the roots of 48:46.120 --> 48:52.360 the argument online that I want to address now. When a Lutheran thinks about authority, 48:53.080 --> 48:58.520 we think about it in terms of vocation. So we think father, we think husband, we think teacher 48:58.520 --> 49:06.760 in a classroom or a pastor over his flock or a prince over his dominion. And those are all 49:06.760 --> 49:14.440 vocations where God has called a particular person, a particular man to a place has given him a 49:14.440 --> 49:22.360 domain, has given him people under his care. And rebellion against that authority is sin 49:22.360 --> 49:27.720 all by itself. If you disobey your father and he is not doing something is 49:28.680 --> 49:35.800 if assuming that he is not directly contributing God, your disobedience to your father is disobedience 49:35.800 --> 49:42.840 to God because of his authority as your father. So when Lutheran think about vocation, they think 49:42.920 --> 49:50.520 that will all authority stems from and flows from vocation. And that's simply not true because 49:50.520 --> 49:55.720 there are two kinds of authority. And this is something that we all understand naturally. And I'll 49:55.720 --> 50:02.840 give you the example of this very podcast is Corey and I are speaking to you. We are teaching. 50:02.840 --> 50:09.720 We are exercising authority. How so? Because I have the microphone and you have the speakers. 50:10.360 --> 50:17.960 I am actively speaking and you are passively listening. I am giving and you are receiving. 50:17.960 --> 50:24.920 That is inherently authority per se just by virtually virtue of the structure of the thing. 50:25.480 --> 50:32.600 Now that is not to suggest that if you disagree with me, you're you're sinning, you're transgressing 50:32.600 --> 50:39.320 against God because this is the type of authority where although it is inherent in the act, 50:39.320 --> 50:44.120 it does not compel submission except through the veracity of its claims. 50:44.840 --> 50:52.120 So if I sit here and talk and I cite scripture and you agree with what I say about scripture, 50:52.760 --> 50:59.240 you're doing that because the Holy Spirit acting in you hears the voice of God in the way I'm 50:59.240 --> 51:05.560 framing something, not that I'm a prophet, not that I'm speaking as God, but that I'm saying what 51:05.560 --> 51:12.360 God says in God within you hears and says, yes, I believe that. That's between you and God. If you 51:12.360 --> 51:17.240 agree with that, you're not submitting to me, you're submitting to God. And if you disagree with it, 51:18.040 --> 51:22.840 if I'm wrong, then you're just disagreeing with me. If I'm right, you're disagreeing with me and 51:22.840 --> 51:29.160 God, but your only sin would be against God because the authority of my speech does not extend to 51:29.160 --> 51:36.280 condemnation of someone who doesn't like it. There are lots of examples of this in the world. 51:36.280 --> 51:45.240 If you go to a lecture, whoever the lecture is is standing. He's typically standing behind a podium. 51:45.240 --> 51:51.880 It's raised. You are seated. You're lower than him. Every physical element of the process of 51:51.880 --> 51:59.080 teaching reinforces the authority of the speaker and the submission of the listener. 51:59.960 --> 52:04.520 Now, in the case of teaching, there are also actually two different kinds of teaching. I had 52:04.520 --> 52:13.240 mentioned that teacher is a vocation. It is a vocation in the realm where a student goes to a classroom, 52:13.240 --> 52:20.600 the teacher takes attendance. In that case, the student has been assigned to that teacher by the 52:20.600 --> 52:26.040 school system by the parents, whatever. There is a one-to-many relationship of the teacher to the 52:26.040 --> 52:33.640 students, but there is a relationship of authority and accountability because the teacher has a 52:33.640 --> 52:39.240 responsibility for the performance of the students. And that is unlike a lecture, that is unlike a 52:39.240 --> 52:45.880 podcast, and that is unlike a book where there is also a one-to-many relationship. But the many 52:45.960 --> 52:54.360 are typically anonymous. There is no accountability from the one to God to make sure that the many 52:55.160 --> 53:01.080 cue to whatever has been said. So the authority is very limited, but nevertheless it is authority 53:01.080 --> 53:10.360 for a man to stand up and pronounce something is done as an act of authority. 53:10.360 --> 53:14.360 Now, maybe usurpation, depending on vocation. There may be cases where, you know, 53:14.360 --> 53:20.120 for example, in the middle of a church service where the pastor is speaking, he's preaching. 53:20.120 --> 53:24.200 If some man stands up in the middle of the service and starts arguing with him, 53:25.160 --> 53:33.400 he's the man is acting with authority, but it's evil. It's a bad type of usurpation 53:33.400 --> 53:39.800 because you're usurping that which the pastor is rightly doing, even if the pastor is wrong. 53:40.600 --> 53:45.240 They're very limited circumstances where it would ever be permissible to do that. I wouldn't say 53:45.240 --> 53:49.400 this should never be done, but there should be so struck, stored, so extraordinary that you should 53:49.400 --> 53:54.600 probably never hear about it. One would hope. Basically, they'd have to be outright heresy. 53:55.240 --> 54:02.120 Yeah, and that does occur, but God willing, it won't happen in our church as at least for a while. 54:02.760 --> 54:08.360 So the reason for pointing out that there are two different kinds of authority and teaching 54:08.360 --> 54:14.440 is to get to the heart of what has been discussed online about girls writing books and girls 54:14.440 --> 54:19.800 writing theology books, because that's exactly what's happening in the Missouri Senate today, 54:19.800 --> 54:26.200 and has been going on for quite some time. Concordia Posh publishing now, CPH is an arm of the 54:26.200 --> 54:33.240 Missouri Senate. It is a holy captive business that belongs to the corporation of the LCMS. 54:33.240 --> 54:39.320 It's a business entity, and this is a game that gets played whenever these questions come up. 54:40.040 --> 54:45.560 On one hand, everything that CPH publishes must go through doctrinal review, 54:46.520 --> 54:52.440 because CPH is the church for the purposes of publishing things that should be sound doctrine. 54:53.880 --> 55:01.400 But when men stand up and say, hey, but we have girls teaching, suddenly the church says, 55:01.400 --> 55:06.760 it's just a publishing, it's like print on demand. They can say what they say, and it's not the 55:06.760 --> 55:13.880 church saying it, and you just need to settle down and quit hating women, which is not what anyone 55:13.880 --> 55:21.160 has said at any point. What has been said is that, again, there are several tiers of this question, 55:21.960 --> 55:29.240 is the publishing house that belongs to a church teaching? Now, the Missouri Senate 55:29.240 --> 55:33.160 played lots of games I don't even want to get into, because I just find them disgusting. But 55:33.160 --> 55:37.640 the answer is yes or no, depending on how you want to interpret it, it's all whistling. 55:38.280 --> 55:43.800 The more basic question, which is what we want to talk about, is whether publishing a book 55:43.800 --> 55:50.680 period is teaching. And again, first Timothy says that teaching is exercising of authority. 55:51.720 --> 55:57.720 And that is the point that I'm trying to make. And when the pastor say, well, no, it can't be 55:58.680 --> 56:02.920 not all teaching can be with authority because it doesn't touch on the pastoral office. 56:02.920 --> 56:07.720 The point that we're trying to make is it doesn't matter because that section of first Timothy 56:07.720 --> 56:15.000 is not about the pastoral office. It is not about what pastors do in the pulpit versus what the 56:15.000 --> 56:22.120 lady are permitted to do, whether male or female. The question is much more fundamental. And this is 56:22.120 --> 56:26.520 where Lutherans have gotten, we just become retarded. We don't understand these ontological 56:26.600 --> 56:33.160 questions of what is the root of the authority to do this. And thank God for telling us right in 56:33.160 --> 56:42.600 the text that the order of creation is the revealed nature of the difference. Eve was deceived. 56:43.160 --> 56:47.400 Now that's that's profound. If you're talking about girls publishing theological books, 56:47.400 --> 56:52.280 God said it wasn't Adam who was tricked by Satan. It was the girl who was tricked by Satan. 56:52.360 --> 56:57.320 And that is the reason why girls can't teach. And for pastors to stand up and say, well, 56:57.320 --> 57:01.800 that just means in church, or that just means, you know, maybe not theological books or certain 57:01.800 --> 57:06.680 kinds of theological books, but maybe not the really hardcore ones. It's nonsense. If a girl 57:06.680 --> 57:13.080 is teaching, and she is the one who was deceived by Satan, she is usurping the created order 57:13.080 --> 57:18.760 by opening her mouth. And this is where the egalitarian thing really just causes everyone to have 57:18.760 --> 57:26.920 a meltdown. The bottom line is very simple. If you are a girl, your will should be expressed 57:26.920 --> 57:32.120 through your father or through your husband. You should not have a public will expressed in any 57:32.120 --> 57:37.080 other way. That is headship. His query talked about, you know, the foot doesn't decide where to go. 57:37.080 --> 57:43.160 The foot doesn't talk. The mouth is on the head. The head speaks. And that's the reason that 57:43.160 --> 57:47.960 it's Mrs. Robert Price and not whatever her name was. I don't even have to know her name. I know 57:47.960 --> 57:55.640 she was Mrs. Robert Price. She was his wife. There's not a permissible circumstance under which 57:55.640 --> 58:03.640 a woman has her views of expressed in public. And that was the root of the 19th amendment. It's 58:03.640 --> 58:08.520 the root of all of this. It's the root of the feminist attack on the created order for the last 58:08.520 --> 58:14.200 hundred and however many years is to say, you know what? Girls, you know, it's girl power. Girls 58:14.280 --> 58:18.760 are going to express themselves. They're going to make their mark. They're going to do those things 58:18.760 --> 58:25.080 which they are capable of doing. And that's another part of the argument is that as Cory mentioned, 58:25.080 --> 58:30.200 you know, you said that it's not about whether or not they are good at it. And honestly, I think one 58:30.200 --> 58:36.280 of the reasons that a lot of these pastors are so willing to embrace all these girls doing 58:36.280 --> 58:41.400 stuff in their churches is that inside they know that they should never have been ordained. 58:41.400 --> 58:45.560 I think they know that they're not competent. And when they see the teaching abilities of some 58:45.560 --> 58:53.560 of the girls in their under their care, under their superior rule, they're ashamed because they 58:53.560 --> 58:59.000 can't do as well as the girls under them. And rather than trying to be by their pastors or maybe 58:59.000 --> 59:03.560 stepping down and saying, you know what? I'm not fit for this office. Instead, they choose to you 59:03.560 --> 59:08.680 serve God's order by elevating girls to do the job that God has tasked them with doing. 59:09.640 --> 59:16.040 There's that. And there is also they know that if they promote women, or at least they believe 59:16.040 --> 59:21.640 that if they promote women in today's society, it's true, that that will insulate them from criticism 59:21.640 --> 59:26.440 from others because look at how progressive I'm being. And I am including women. And I'm doing all 59:26.440 --> 59:32.040 these things that the culture loves which that should set off alarm bells for any Christian. But 59:32.040 --> 59:38.520 they do that because then they're insulated from being criticized by other men. And if they 59:38.520 --> 59:44.360 were instead selecting competent men in their congregations, which unless they've absolutely failed 59:44.360 --> 59:48.600 as a pastor, they should have those in their churches because they don't necessarily want to 59:48.600 --> 59:55.240 select the men because that's competition, which is not how a man would actually see it. Yes, 59:55.240 --> 59:59.880 competition is healthy and it's a good thing. But ultimately, I'm not trying to destroy you 59:59.880 --> 01:00:04.920 if I'm teaching and I'm better at teaching a particular subject. It's simply a recognition that 01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:09.320 God has given me certain abilities. God has given you certain abilities and they should be used 01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:20.040 to serve the church. And we don't, but modern Christians try to weasel around everything in 01:00:20.040 --> 01:00:26.760 scripture. Lutherans do this with some things. Thankfully, we do not do it when it comes to 01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:33.160 justification, when it comes to sanctification, when it comes to these core issues that we got 01:00:33.160 --> 01:00:40.520 absolutely right 500 years ago. And we have held correctly for 500 years, which thanks be to God 01:00:40.520 --> 01:00:47.800 that we have those. But that doesn't excuse us when it comes to all these other issues that 01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:53.160 if we don't get them wrong, we certainly don't get them right. And the CTCR and those who have 01:00:53.160 --> 01:00:59.320 crafted some of the documents made in the 60s definitely got them wrong. And so we have the 01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:05.880 injunctions in 1 Timothy that relate to creation that relate to things. How they are supposed to be 01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:12.280 in a Christian society. What Christians should attempt to create wherever they live? Well, we also 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:19.880 have 1 Corinthians, which addresses the church explicitly. So we have society generally and the 01:01:19.880 --> 01:01:25.960 church explicitly. Well, what is 1 Corinthians say to women? As in all the churches of the saints, 01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:31.080 the women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be 01:01:31.080 --> 01:01:37.160 in submission as the law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their 01:01:37.160 --> 01:01:44.760 husbands at home, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. This could not possibly 01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:52.280 be more clear. It says that women are to be silent in the churches. It does not say that women are 01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:59.320 supposed to speak only if the pastor permits it or the pastor wants to have women lecturers or 01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:05.640 anything like that. No, women are to be silent in the church. Women should not be heard in the church. 01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:12.440 And yes, that applies to the Bible study as well as to the service. As much as we'd like to think 01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:17.000 that, oh, well, it's just no, don't weasel out of it by saying it's just the service. Where does it 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:22.760 say just during the liturgy? Where does it say just during the service of the sacrament? Where does 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:27.240 it say just during the service of the word? It doesn't say that anywhere because it says women are to 01:02:27.240 --> 01:02:33.800 be silent in the churches. Period. No exceptions. And now, of course, you'll have those who try to wiggle 01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:41.160 out of it by saying, well, a woman's not speaking if she writes a book. Yes, she is. If I write something 01:02:41.160 --> 01:02:47.160 and someone else reads it, I'm speaking in his head. That's what that is. So if I write a book 01:02:47.160 --> 01:02:54.360 and it is then used by a pastor to teach his sheep, I am teaching his sheep. I am exercising 01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:59.880 authority. And so if a woman writes a book and the pastor uses that in church, that woman is 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:06.360 exercising authority over those sheep and that pastor is facilitating it. So he is now participating 01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:12.120 in her sin and making it worse because of his office and what he should be doing. And he, 01:03:12.120 --> 01:03:17.560 as a rightful head, is going to be held to a higher standard. And pastors should tremble at the 01:03:17.560 --> 01:03:22.040 fact that yes, you have opted for the stricter judgment. Maybe worry about that a little more. 01:03:24.120 --> 01:03:30.440 And that's a vital point is that this podcast is us speaking with authority. We may be completely 01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:35.080 wrong. That doesn't mean we're not speaking authority authoritatively. It means that we're 01:03:35.080 --> 01:03:38.440 sinning if we're in error because we're saying things that are lies. 01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:45.160 The example you gave of these pastors who say that they're excited to take these books published 01:03:45.160 --> 01:03:52.920 by girls and teach them in their congregations takes the other kind of authority and directly 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:59.160 applies it because the crucial difference between you and I and a pastor is that we don't have a 01:03:59.160 --> 01:04:05.800 caller. When we speak, we do not bind consciences. And we see this every day whenever we've said 01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:11.480 anything online for years, we get dog piled by people who'd never give us the best construction. 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:15.080 We're told that we're not brothers in Christ. We're told that we're evil. We're told 01:04:15.080 --> 01:04:23.720 every malign thing possible has been said about us directly for citing scripture. And frankly, 01:04:23.800 --> 01:04:31.160 that's okay. The point is that when I speak, when you speak, we don't bind anyone's conscience 01:04:31.160 --> 01:04:37.160 unless the Holy Spirit binds their conscience because although speaking has authority inherent 01:04:37.160 --> 01:04:43.640 to itself, that ends the moment that the person is done listening or reading because they go 01:04:43.640 --> 01:04:48.920 and process it and they decide, am I going to believe this or not? That's not the case when a pastor 01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:55.160 speaks. And that's not the case when a pastor sanctifies teaching that's usurping the order of 01:04:55.160 --> 01:05:02.040 creation by a girl doing it. When he does it, a pastor binds consciences. Anything a pastor says, 01:05:02.040 --> 01:05:07.400 where these wearing his collar or not says, this is what God says. It's implicit. And a lot of these 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:13.240 guys are afraid of that because they know that the strict for judgment awaits. And so they just 01:05:13.240 --> 01:05:17.000 think, well, either, you know, it's on Twitter. So it's not really a big deal or I'm not going to 01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:21.000 say what I think because I don't want to get in trouble or cause a cause of kerfuffle. 01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:29.240 When these pastors sanctify usurpation of God's order, they are sinning. They're sinning against 01:05:29.240 --> 01:05:34.600 their flock. They're sinning against God. They're acting an idolatrous way and an evil way. 01:05:36.520 --> 01:05:40.520 I think as we're getting to the end of their time in this first episode, I want to point out that 01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:48.200 part of the reason that we chose the name stone choir is from the verse where Jesus describes 01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:53.960 how the very stones would cry out when the Pharisees implored him to silence his followers. 01:05:54.440 --> 01:06:00.120 The Pharisees were tired of Jesus followers praising him and giving adoration to his word. 01:06:00.600 --> 01:06:05.000 And Jesus understanding the vocation of a follower better than any man could 01:06:05.640 --> 01:06:12.440 under also understands creation itself. And Jesus told the Pharisees, if I tell my people to stop 01:06:12.440 --> 01:06:18.840 confessing me and to stop praising me, it will be creation itself. It will be a stone whose vocation 01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:24.520 is to just sit there silently and be a stone and do nothing. They would literally cry out. And 01:06:24.520 --> 01:06:29.800 that wasn't figurative. That wasn't a metaphor. Any more than bayonet Balum's donkey speaking to warn 01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:36.840 him was true. These stones would literally cry out if every man went silent. So the reason 01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:43.800 that we chose that name for this podcast is that you and I are layman. We have no vocation to speak 01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:51.480 apart from that vocation of Christian of Christian man of Christian man who has been given the aptitude 01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:57.800 and the discernment to read these things and to understand them and to explain them in a way 01:06:57.800 --> 01:07:04.840 that is accessible to any many people. And for all the pastors who accuse us of being cowards 01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:10.760 and being trolls and ogres and all sorts of other nonsense, the bottom line is this what we are 01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:16.440 saying is what scripture is saying. And I will tell Hans and all the other guys that the reason 01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:21.640 that that conversation started a few weeks ago was downstream from conversations that you and I 01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:28.360 have had. And our churches are full filled with men who agree with you and agree with me, Corey. 01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:35.320 And we're not usurping. In our own congregations, we don't pick fights. We don't cause trouble. 01:07:35.320 --> 01:07:41.880 What we do is we step forward. So in all these cases where we see girls usurping, whether they 01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:47.560 deliberately usurper not, when they're acting is ushers and lectures and all these other things, 01:07:48.200 --> 01:07:54.520 the men who agree with us, rather than arguing with those girls, they're stepping forward in the 01:07:54.520 --> 01:08:00.520 church. We are doing those things that men have advocated. And that's fundamentally the root of 01:08:00.520 --> 01:08:08.360 all of this. From start to finish, the only reason that a girl would ever write a book or try to 01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:15.320 be an elder or a lector or any of the other things that goes on is if a man has failed to do so. 01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:22.520 And by our publishing house, publishing all these books by girls, what the LCMS is saying is that 01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:27.320 there are no pastors to say these things. There are no pastors to teach. We need girls to teach 01:08:27.320 --> 01:08:33.720 our theology now. We need girls to teach anything because there are no men to do it. And that's 01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:40.520 simply not the case. This got his blessed Lutheranism and his blessed Christianity outside Lutheranism 01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:46.600 with faithful Christians who hear his word and obey it, even in the face of the most vicious and 01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:53.720 murderous slander. And we are speaking out, we start of this podcast and we will continue to speak 01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:58.840 as long as pastors run faithful, as long as we're the only voices who are saying these things to 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:04.520 need to be said, we will be here saying them. It was hilarious that earlier this evening, Hans 01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:10.040 posted that thread where he basically said, yeah, for 50 years, all these problems have been going 01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:14.760 on in the church and no one said anything until these anonymous cowards started this fight. 01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:21.080 But they have a good point. Well, that's exactly why a lot of guys are anonymous. And that's why 01:09:21.080 --> 01:09:26.920 Cory and I are never going to pursue the pastoral office despite the fact that virtually every pastor, 01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:32.200 both of us have ever talked to his in our first conversation with them. I haven't pastors 01:09:32.280 --> 01:09:37.720 interrupt me after 15 minutes saying you should go to seminary. That's the kind of men that we are 01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:43.160 in person. And all these guys that think that we're stupid or we're evil or we're up to no good, 01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:47.400 not only are they being uncharitable in slanders, but they're also just wrong. 01:09:48.760 --> 01:09:54.920 We will remain layman because layman do not have a vocation to a congregation. 01:09:55.800 --> 01:10:00.680 I think one of the greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses of the Missouri Synod 01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:06.040 is our congregational polity means that every pastor can just be head down with his own sheep 01:10:06.040 --> 01:10:11.160 and pretending these other things are not happening. But that's not the way the world works, 01:10:11.160 --> 01:10:15.880 especially when you have the internet and you have publishing houses and you have catalogs 01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:21.960 where error in any one place will rapidly propagate everywhere. And for every pastor that wants 01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:27.160 to pretend this stuff is not happening, his congregation is full of people who are lapping it up 01:10:27.160 --> 01:10:33.400 167 hours a week. And that one hour a week that he's preaching faithfully isn't going to cut it 01:10:33.400 --> 01:10:39.320 when Satan is catacizing them for the other 167 hours. So as much as we can do anything, 01:10:39.320 --> 01:10:44.360 we are going to speak faithfully and may God help us to reach those who are willing to listen. 01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:55.080 I want to add a little bit of emphasis to the point that we both made about what is actually 01:10:55.080 --> 01:11:01.000 happening when a pastor or another teacher in the church uses materials written by a woman. 01:11:02.440 --> 01:11:09.560 And of course, that is the pastor permitting that woman to exercise authority through him. 01:11:11.240 --> 01:11:17.160 But it's worse than that. And the reason it's worse than that is because what is a pastor 01:11:17.160 --> 01:11:24.200 actually doing? What is a pastor supposed to be doing? A pastor speaks in the stead of Christ. 01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:31.400 When a pastor is up there speaking, he is speaking with the voice of God. At the very least, 01:11:31.400 --> 01:11:35.960 he is supposed to be speaking with the voice of God. So if a pastor is up there teaching 01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:44.200 and he is using materials produced by a girl, he is saying that a girl can speak with the voice 01:11:44.200 --> 01:11:53.320 of God. And that is simply not true. Men speak for God. God chose men to speak for him. God made 01:11:53.320 --> 01:12:00.440 men to speak for him. He did not make girls to do that. Yes, in public, of course. A woman can 01:12:00.440 --> 01:12:06.680 teach her children at home. Absolutely. She should do that. That is one of her duties. We recognize 01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:13.720 that because that is her sphere. And a mother can rightly exercise a sort of headship over her 01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:20.360 children just as children can exercise a sort of headship over their pets. There are different 01:12:20.360 --> 01:12:26.040 levels to the hierarchy. But when it comes to speaking in public, a woman cannot speak with 01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:30.920 the voice of God in public in that way. That is something that is restricted to men. And so the 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:37.480 pastor is misrepresenting God ultimately is what he is doing. And that is a grievous sin. And 01:12:37.480 --> 01:12:43.480 that should absolutely terrify these men when they stand up and defend the indefensible. 01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:49.560 And I just have to say it is funny that they always go after the anonymity thing as if 01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:58.360 I've ever been anonymous. They just name and face everywhere. I am very subtle about it. Yes, 01:12:58.360 --> 01:13:03.480 they're just absolute hypocrites. And they know it. They're just insufferable hypocrites. 01:13:04.440 --> 01:13:10.600 To preantively address one of the criticisms at the last point you made, the argument has been 01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:17.400 made against the position that has been advanced against girls publishing books. Well, what about 01:13:17.400 --> 01:13:25.320 the grocery store? The distinction in teaching is public. It is the one to many relationship. Every 01:13:25.320 --> 01:13:31.480 Christian, male or female has a duty at all times. Young or old, you're five-year-old, whether it's 01:13:31.480 --> 01:13:37.080 a boy or a girl, has a duty to share his or her faith in Christ with anyone who will listen. But 01:13:37.080 --> 01:13:42.280 those are one-to-one relationships. They're interpersonal. If you're in the grocery store and 01:13:42.360 --> 01:13:48.280 your mother and you have an opportunity to share the gospel, you are commanded to do that by God. 01:13:48.280 --> 01:13:53.960 We are not speaking against that because although that is a public place for legal purposes, 01:13:53.960 --> 01:13:58.600 that is not public preaching or teaching. When a woman shares her faith in Christ, 01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:06.040 she's sharing what she knows, hopefully faithfully. But that conversation should always end with, 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:13.960 let me introduce you to my pastor. That's the part that's missing from this. That is where we too, 01:14:15.240 --> 01:14:20.680 you and I between us have probably put, I know I personally put at least 100 souls in Lutheran 01:14:20.680 --> 01:14:26.360 churches. I'm not taking credit. I did that. The fact that I have represented myself as a Lutheran 01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:32.760 online has caused well over 100 men, women, and children to join Lutheran congregations. Not 01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:38.600 once have I ever said, join the church of woe. What I have said is, let me help you find a faithful 01:14:38.600 --> 01:14:46.680 pastor under whose care you and supervision you will be. And then go and be the best layman that you 01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:52.920 can be in that congregation, where you will hopefully someday serve as an elder, where you can 01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:58.040 volunteer, where you can set a good example, where you can learn to cataclyze your own family 01:14:58.200 --> 01:15:05.640 faithfully. So we are not usurpers of the church. We are attempting to enable the church in a way 01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:13.640 that is being battled by the very men who are sworn to God not to do so. And I pray that we can 01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:20.760 once again be on the same side, because we ultimately want everyone to hear the gospel. And as I 01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:26.760 mentioned earlier, a lot of the men that Cory and I have reached through the work that we have done 01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:32.120 have been men. Some of them were baptized as a result. There are several who have been 01:15:32.120 --> 01:15:37.720 baptized and cataclyzed just in the last year, because of me posting the very things that pastors 01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:44.200 say I'm going to go to hell for. And now these men are attending every Sunday. They are excited 01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:50.440 about watching the four-way and daily stream of services. They're reading their Bibles 01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:59.240 voraciously. They are working with their pastors. If that is the fruit of an evil tree, then I 01:15:59.240 --> 01:16:09.480 don't know what a good tree is supposed to look like. It's just ultimately we actually intend 01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:14.600 all of this for the good. Absolutely. There are those who believe that we don't. 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:20.040 And if they're going to believe that, then they can go ahead and believe that. But nothing 01:16:20.040 --> 01:16:26.200 we have said, nothing we have posted, nothing we've written, we give any indication that we 01:16:26.200 --> 01:16:33.160 desire anything other than what we have stated. We want to get men back into the churches. 01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:39.960 And men are not going to come back into the churches, as long as they are just hearing a water 01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:46.360 down 20-year-old version of what the culture tells them every day echoed from the pulpits. 01:16:47.560 --> 01:16:53.160 Because if we have pastors like that, why on earth would I go to church? It makes so much more 01:16:53.160 --> 01:16:59.000 sense to wake up late and go have brunch instead of going to a church where I'm just going to hear 01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:07.000 the same nonsense the culture tells me every single day. So instead, we want pastors to be faithful 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:14.920 and actually teach what Christianity is. Not this water down culturally sensitive 01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:24.120 version of Christianity that is not. As this podcast goes along, I hope that 01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:29.960 I hope that we'll reach the right people. And as we do this, we're going to name names, 01:17:29.960 --> 01:17:34.760 we're going to go after people by name for what they've said in public. And it is never done 01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:43.160 with malicious intent. It is not with the intent of destruction. It is done with the intent of 01:17:43.160 --> 01:17:50.440 calling to repentance because as long as these errors persist, men will be chased away. 01:17:50.440 --> 01:17:54.760 And one of the things that we have seen repeatedly is that there are a lot of pastors that think 01:17:54.760 --> 01:18:00.440 it's hilarious for the type of men who have come into their very own churches because of the things 01:18:00.440 --> 01:18:05.000 that we have said over the past few years. Pastors want those guys to go to hell. They don't want 01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:13.400 them in their pulp and they're in their pews. And you could not find a more different spirit dichotomy 01:18:13.400 --> 01:18:19.080 than what we see with the response to men who've hold the opinions that are contrary to the world. 01:18:19.080 --> 01:18:24.440 And in some cases, as they are learning about Christianity, are contrary to Christianity. 01:18:24.920 --> 01:18:30.200 They're ignorant. They've been raised outside the church by an evil world. 01:18:30.200 --> 01:18:35.160 We are trying to connect them with pastors who will be faithful to the teachings of God. 01:18:35.160 --> 01:18:40.760 And it's astonishing and depressing to me how difficult that is. But the reason that we are 01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:46.440 speaking again, it's not it's not to condemn just for the sake of condemnation. It is because I 01:18:46.440 --> 01:18:52.680 want there to still be Lutheran churches in 20 years for us and for all of these people who are 01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:59.800 trying to come to God to find and to find faithful preaching. And on the trajectory that we're 01:18:59.800 --> 01:19:05.080 on today, that's not going to be the case. There will not be a Christian church in 20 years. 01:19:05.080 --> 01:19:10.280 And I know the pastors think that's not the case because the case of hell not prevailing and all 01:19:10.280 --> 01:19:16.280 that stuff. Yes, that's true. Christianity will always be preserved. But God also promised there 01:19:16.280 --> 01:19:21.640 would be a remnant. And God promised there would be a great apostasy. And God promised that many of 01:19:21.640 --> 01:19:26.920 those who cry out, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons? 01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:33.880 God will say to them, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you. We want that to happen to the 01:19:33.880 --> 01:19:40.120 pastors who hate us. We want them to repent and we want the people who want to come to our churches 01:19:40.120 --> 01:19:44.600 to find churches that are faithful to God so that we can all meet in heaven and not have any of 01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:50.040 these problems. And we can live the perfect lives that God created us to live in the first place. 01:19:52.600 --> 01:20:01.960 I think we can sum up, in large part, in addition to the stones crying out, we can sum up the 01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:10.520 purpose of this podcast with Ezekiel 33. So you son of man, I have made a watchman for the house 01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:16.600 of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. If I say to 01:20:16.600 --> 01:20:22.120 the wicked, a wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn 01:20:22.120 --> 01:20:28.520 from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:33.880 But if you warn the wicked to turn away from his way, and he does not turn from his way, 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:38.040 that person shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul. 01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:42.760 And that's what it comes down to. We don't have a choice. 01:20:43.720 --> 01:20:49.880 If Christ disciples, his followers have been silent, the stones would have cried out. The stones 01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:54.440 would not have had a choice. The stones would have to have cried out. It would have been their 01:20:54.440 --> 01:21:00.680 duty to cry out. Well, it's our duty to address these things, because as was stated previously, 01:21:00.680 --> 01:21:05.880 God has given us the ability to see them and the ability to address them. And so we do not have a 01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:13.560 choice. This isn't a project because it's necessarily enjoyable or fun. This is something that 01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:20.600 has to be done, because there is a duty to do it, and because the consequences of not doing it 01:21:20.600 --> 01:21:23.640 are unthinkable. Amen.