Transcript: Episode 0001

“Talking Heads: On Headship, Teaching, and Women in the Church”

This transcript:
  1. Was machine generated.
  2. Has not been checked for errors.
  3. May not be entirely accurate.

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00:00:30 – 00:00:42:	Welcome to the Stone Choir Podcast.

00:00:42 – 00:00:47:	I am Corey J. Moller, and I'm well in this episode, we will be discussing the issues

00:00:47 – 00:00:52:	of headship, teaching, and women in the church.

00:00:52 – 00:01:00:	So the question that's been raging lately on the Lutheran Twitter sphere has been

00:01:00 – 00:01:03:	Can Girls Teach.

00:01:03 – 00:01:07:	It's an interesting question because it's not a Lutheran question, it's one that's been

00:01:07 – 00:01:12:	really facing the whole church for Japan, how far back you go centuries, but certainly

00:01:12 – 00:01:18:	in the last 50 years, Can Girls Teach has been in the forefront of what's happening in

00:01:18 – 00:01:20:	our Christian churches.

00:01:21 – 00:01:25:	The reason we're going to talk about it today is that in part, that's not actually the

00:01:25 – 00:01:27:	right form of the question.

00:01:27 – 00:01:31:	Form of the question is May Girls Teach, but before we can answer that, we have to answer

00:01:31 – 00:01:35:	a few predicate questions to define our terms.

00:01:35 – 00:01:40:	The first is, what is a girl, what is a woman, where did they come from, what are they

00:01:40 – 00:01:46:	for, and then once we understand that, we can add, address the question, what is teaching?

00:01:46 – 00:01:51:	So Corey, what is a girl?

00:01:51 – 00:01:59:	Well a girl is defined in part, you could define a girl as in contrast to a man, and what

00:01:59 – 00:02:06:	a girl is, is a help meet, woman is made for man, not man for woman, as scripture very

00:02:06 – 00:02:15:	clearly states, and so woman is made in Genesis 1.

00:02:15 – 00:02:20:	We have, of course, we have the more elaborate detail later on in Genesis, but we have in

00:02:20 – 00:02:22:	Genesis 1.27.

00:02:22 – 00:02:27:	So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female

00:02:27 – 00:02:33:	he created them, and of course we'll get to some of the grammar and such there a little

00:02:33 – 00:02:41:	bit later, but the whole purpose of a girl is to help her husband, before she has a husband,

00:02:41 – 00:02:43:	it's to help her family.

00:02:43 – 00:02:50:	But that is the purpose of a girl, it is not to be an equal or a competitor to man,

00:02:50 – 00:02:55:	which is sort of what we've allowed girls to become today.

00:02:55 – 00:03:00:	So we have in Genesis 1.27, so God created man in his own image, in the image of God he

00:03:00 – 00:03:06:	created him, male and female he created them.

00:03:06 – 00:03:16:	Now the question of course arises here, is woman is the female made in the image of God?

00:03:16 – 00:03:21:	And we have other places in scripture that will shed light on this, because man is the

00:03:21 – 00:03:25:	glory of God, man is made in the image of God.

00:03:25 – 00:03:31:	Woman is the glory of man, so there's a difference there, is woman ultimately made in the image

00:03:31 – 00:03:37:	of God, yes, in a transitive sense, because she's the image and glory of man who is the

00:03:37 – 00:03:39:	image and glory of God.

00:03:39 – 00:03:47:	And we have that here in Genesis 1.27, because if you actually look at Genesis 1.27, what

00:03:47 – 00:03:50:	is said there?

00:03:50 – 00:04:01:	God created man in his own image, and that is of course masculine singular man.

00:04:01 – 00:04:07:	In the image of God he created him, and again masculine singular.

00:04:07 – 00:04:12:	And then, and the ESV actually does a good job here because there's a semicolon after him,

00:04:12 – 00:04:16:	and then male and female he created them.

00:04:16 – 00:04:22:	Related matter, not the exact same thing, there is a distinction, even here, in the very

00:04:22 – 00:04:27:	beginning, between man and woman and the creation of man and woman.

00:04:27 – 00:04:30:	So what is woman made to do?

00:04:30 – 00:04:35:	She is made to be a help meet, she is made to help her husband, and there's actually

00:04:35 – 00:04:43:	some useful language from Luther here in his actually volume 1, in the American edition,

00:04:43 – 00:04:47:	because the first eight volumes are Luther's commentary on Genesis.

00:04:47 – 00:04:54:	So for Luther's commentary here for Genesis 1.27, I'll skip the first couple paragraphs

00:04:54 – 00:04:59:	here, they're just about similitude and image and comment on the sentences.

00:04:59 – 00:05:04:	But male and female he created them, and this is a quote from Luther.

00:05:04 – 00:05:09:	In order not to give the impression that he was excluding the woman from all the glory

00:05:09 – 00:05:13:	of the future life, Moses includes each of the two sexes.

00:05:13 – 00:05:18:	For the woman appears to be a somewhat different being from the man, having different members

00:05:18 – 00:05:20:	and a much weaker nature.

00:05:20 – 00:05:24:	Although Eve was a most extraordinary creature, similar to Adam so far as the image of God

00:05:24 – 00:05:30:	is concerned, that is, in justice, wisdom and happiness, she was nevertheless a woman.

00:05:30 – 00:05:34:	For as the son is more excellent than the moon, although the moon too was a very excellent

00:05:34 – 00:05:39:	body, so the woman, although she was the most beautiful work of God, nevertheless was

00:05:39 – 00:05:44:	not the equal of the male in glory and prestige.

00:05:44 – 00:05:51:	And so Luther properly recognizes that even in the garden, before the fall, in the state

00:05:51 – 00:05:56:	of perfection, woman is not equal to man.

00:05:56 – 00:05:58:	Men and women are different.

00:05:58 – 00:06:02:	The girl was made for the man, not vice versa.

00:06:02 – 00:06:08:	I think you mentioned early the transitive property, and I'm sure there are people listening

00:06:08 – 00:06:13:	who think that we are denying that women are made in the image of God.

00:06:13 – 00:06:21:	And that's not the point, but it's a subtle distinction that relies on the sort of

00:06:22 – 00:06:26:	reason that really isn't taught anymore that people don't understand, don't think in those terms.

00:06:26 – 00:06:31:	So when you say similar to and you say transitive property, what are you actually saying?

00:06:31 – 00:06:35:	What is the A to B and B to see doing in this scenario?

00:06:39 – 00:06:46:	The point that we are attempting to make is that if you say that two things are entirely equal,

00:06:46 – 00:06:49:	of course, well, that gets into the laws of logic then because two things that can't be

00:06:49 – 00:06:55:	distinguished are of course the same thing. But if man is made in the image of God,

00:06:55 – 00:07:00:	to be made in the image of God means something, it does not mean to be equal to God,

00:07:00 – 00:07:04:	it does not mean to be identical to God because of course it cannot mean that,

00:07:04 – 00:07:06:	because we are finite, God is infinite.

00:07:06 – 00:07:12:	And so if we are created in the image of God, we are a lesser creature than God.

00:07:13 – 00:07:19:	Woman is made in the image of man. Woman is a lesser creature than man.

00:07:19 – 00:07:27:	Still made in the image of God. Still partakes of if she is Christian, salvation and the eternal life,

00:07:27 – 00:07:31:	the good version of the eternal life, you do get the other one if you're not a Christian.

00:07:32 – 00:07:36:	But she is a lesser creature, but still made in the image of God.

00:07:37 – 00:07:40:	There's that difference there. It's important to note that difference.

00:07:42 – 00:07:46:	What is an image in the internet age? We just think of JPEGs.

00:07:47 – 00:07:53:	Frankly, that's about as far as people can take it. But when theologians talk about image,

00:07:53 – 00:08:03:	what does that mean? Well, we could actually go to the Greek here so we can perhaps address

00:08:03 – 00:08:09:	some potential pastoral detractors because what does it actually say in the Greek?

00:08:09 – 00:08:17:	Icona. It's an icon or an idol. Man is meant to image or to represent God in creation.

00:08:17 – 00:08:26:	So man is the pinnacle of creation. Man is at the top of the hierarchy. Man represents God

00:08:26 – 00:08:31:	to creation. And that is what man is supposed to do. And we still have this to some degree today.

00:08:31 – 00:08:37:	Yes, it is to some degree lost and corrupted because of the fall. But if you have a dog,

00:08:37 – 00:08:42:	particularly if you selected well and have a good breed, your dog is going to look to you.

00:08:43 – 00:08:48:	After a fashion, as if you were God, because your dog looks to you for everything good in his life,

00:08:48 – 00:08:52:	he looks to you for food, for shelter, for warmth, for care, affection,

00:08:53 – 00:09:00:	your dog looks to you as the representative of God in creation. So your dog is not necessarily

00:09:00 – 00:09:05:	looking exactly through you to God, but after a fashion, that is what's happening. And that is how

00:09:06 – 00:09:15:	woman properly interfaces and interacts with God because the wife is not the head. The husband is

00:09:15 – 00:09:20:	the head. And so the body interacts with the head, the head interacts with God. That's how things

00:09:20 – 00:09:27:	are supposed to work. There's a natural hierarchy there. There's a footnote reference that is also

00:09:27 – 00:09:34:	relevant from the same work in Lutheran references. Luther's later comments on marriage. And it's

00:09:34 – 00:09:39:	important to to bring this up as well, because I'm sure we'll discuss marriage a little more

00:09:39 – 00:09:46:	shortly. But what appears in the Latin text Luther was reading the Vulgate, as likened to himself

00:09:46 – 00:09:52:	is in Hebrew, which should be about him. With this expression, the text also makes a difference

00:09:52 – 00:09:58:	between the human female and the females of all the remaining animals, which are not always

00:09:58 – 00:10:03:	about their mates. The woman was so created that she should everywhere and always be about her

00:10:03 – 00:10:09:	husband. Thus imperial law also calls the life of married people an inseparable relationship.

00:10:10 – 00:10:15:	The female of the Brutes has a desire for the male only once in a whole year. But after she

00:10:15 – 00:10:19:	has become pregnant, she returns to her home and takes care of herself. For her young born another

00:10:19 – 00:10:24:	time, she has no concern, and she does not always live with her mate. But among men, the nature of

00:10:24 – 00:10:30:	marriage is different. There the wife so binds herself to a man that she will be about him and will

00:10:30 – 00:10:39:	live together with him as one flesh. And so there is this difference between man and the wild

00:10:39 – 00:10:44:	creatures. Now, perhaps the wild creatures were somewhat different before the fall, but

00:10:45 – 00:10:53:	his point about woman is very important to note. What does it say in Scripture about the wife?

00:10:53 – 00:11:01:	She is to obey her husband in everything as she would obey the Lord. That is an exceptionally

00:11:01 – 00:11:07:	high bar. And so woman is supposed to be about her husband, which makes perfect sense if you

00:11:07 – 00:11:14:	understand headship. Because the head is in charge. The body is supposed to follow the head. Your

00:11:14 – 00:11:19:	foot isn't supposed to tell you, no, I don't feel like going for a walk today. That's not how things

00:11:19 – 00:11:27:	are supposed to work. We were talking about this privately recently that until the last really

00:11:27 – 00:11:36:	two generations maybe, whenever a married woman was referenced by a third party, it was as Mrs.

00:11:36 – 00:11:43:	Robert Price. It was never by her first name. Sure, she didn't have her own distinct identity

00:11:43 – 00:11:49:	apart from her husband. And that's one of the things that feminism has sought in greater

00:11:49 – 00:11:57:	nessness for 100 years to cast down to ensure that every woman can be defined entirely apart from

00:11:57 – 00:12:05:	any man, whether it's her father or her husband or the absence of husband. The essence of feminism

00:12:05 – 00:12:14:	is ultimately that girls are first party members of everything and therefore must be granted

00:12:14 – 00:12:20:	all of the same privileges and ultimately the same authority that men have because we're all

00:12:20 – 00:12:28:	the same. And Christians hear those things that did not originate within Christianity. They hear

00:12:28 – 00:12:34:	them and they try to find in scripture where they can justify them. And so you end up people

00:12:34 – 00:12:40:	making an argument about the Amago Dei that, well, yes, women were made an image of God too. So

00:12:40 – 00:12:45:	of course they can do all these things. And that's why we're discussing this right up front is that

00:12:45 – 00:12:52:	the headship that predates the fall, the headship that is the very essence of the created order

00:12:53 – 00:12:59:	is not set of, it is, it's damaged by the fall. It is harmed in its unity by the fall,

00:12:59 – 00:13:06:	but is not set aside. And it's not set aside in redemption either when we are sanctified by Christ

00:13:06 – 00:13:15:	when we are a new creation as brothers in Christ in scripture refers to girls as brothers in

00:13:15 – 00:13:20:	Christ as well for the sake of inheritance, which is something we may not get to today. But if you

00:13:20 – 00:13:27:	read the passages where Paul deals with inheritance, he refers to everyone as a son of God, whether

00:13:27 – 00:13:34:	they're male or female, because inheritance had to belong to the man. And so these categories

00:13:34 – 00:13:41:	in these terms are not, they're not cultural things that we have just sort of read about recently

00:13:41 – 00:13:46:	online and decided that we need to fight over about the Bible. This is how scripture talks about

00:13:46 – 00:13:53:	what God has done in creation since the beginning. And these attacks coming from outside the church

00:13:53 – 00:13:59:	are fundamental attacks on creation itself. And I think as Lutherans, we're not good at

00:13:59 – 00:14:05:	defending attacks against creation because Lutheranism was defined when the attack was against

00:14:05 – 00:14:10:	sanctification and justification. And we were not fighting the Pope anymore, we're fighting,

00:14:11 – 00:14:18:	we're fighting people who deny the first three books of the Bible. And that that's part of this

00:14:18 – 00:14:24:	fight as well. You know, Satan doesn't sleep and he's realized that he can attack us

00:14:25 – 00:14:31:	at something that is tangential and yet still very much connected to the fight that we had

00:14:31 – 00:14:39:	centuries ago. And when it comes to the issue of the use of either the masculine or the feminine

00:14:39 – 00:14:46:	pronouns and such, there are those who will try to argue that, well, the masculine encompasses

00:14:46 – 00:14:53:	the feminine grammatically. And one, there's some irony there because these will be the same people

00:14:53 – 00:14:58:	who like to say she and he, they'll even go so far as to list both and list the feminine first,

00:14:58 – 00:15:05:	just completely throwing grammar aside. But they are correct that the masculine can encompass

00:15:05 – 00:15:11:	the feminine because as we've discussed previously in Latin, if there's a group of a thousand

00:15:11 – 00:15:17:	women and one man, you use the masculine because that's just how it works. And that's how it works

00:15:17 – 00:15:25:	in most languages typically. However, scripture does have places where it says he or she,

00:15:25 – 00:15:32:	effectively, because they man or woman. And so scripture is very clear when men and women are

00:15:32 – 00:15:37:	being addressed separately or when they are being addressed collectively. And so most of the

00:15:37 – 00:15:43:	scripture is in fact written with a male audience in mind. It is written toward men. And that is

00:15:43 – 00:15:47:	of course only right as we even recognize, of course, in the small catechism, as the head of the

00:15:47 – 00:15:53:	household should teach his household. Guess that's how it works. The head is supposed to teach.

00:15:55 – 00:16:03:	It's funny. You mentioned the the fact that we, we look at those language features as quirks,

00:16:04 – 00:16:11:	let's just the sexist, misogynistic past. When in reality, those ancient languages reflected

00:16:11 – 00:16:16:	headship, they reflected created order, they reflected a basic fundamental understanding of what

00:16:16 – 00:16:23:	we're trying to establish with this episode, which is that the presence of a man in a community,

00:16:23 – 00:16:28:	even if it's a one-to-many relationship with one man and lots of women, the man is in charge

00:16:28 – 00:16:35:	period by default. There cannot be an exception if you want to be godly and we're up against a lot

00:16:35 – 00:16:40:	of people, including a lot of pastors who just don't buy that. There are pastors who are very proud

00:16:40 – 00:16:48:	about the fact that they have girls teaching at synodical conferences, teachings theology to pastors.

00:16:48 – 00:16:53:	And I think it's the best thing ever. They're so delighted to be so progressive and so

00:16:53 – 00:17:00:	forward-looking in such celebrators of the quote-unquote gospel. When in reality, what they're doing is

00:17:00 – 00:17:07:	a abdicating their own offices on the spot and be defiling and mocking gods created order.

00:17:08 – 00:17:14:	And they're doing it in a very public way and they're doing it unrepentantly. And I pray that

00:17:14 – 00:17:18:	people will begin to take this issue more seriously because it's not, it's not a small

00:17:18 – 00:17:25:	linguistic matter and it's not about publishing books. It's about whether we submit to God

00:17:26 – 00:17:33:	and if we as all Christians submit to God, then all girls will submit to men in all cases.

00:17:33 – 00:17:37:	There's not a case where a girl cannot submit to a man. There's a question of order. There's

00:17:37 – 00:17:43:	a question of hierarchy and not every girl automatically submits to every man. But the factor

00:17:44 – 00:17:50:	remains, a man will always be in the lead and on top in the superior position. And as you

00:17:50 – 00:17:57:	mentioned, men are superior. And that's something that just sets the egalitarian mind on edge today

00:17:57 – 00:18:04:	because the idea that superior and inferior must necessarily reflect the value of those involved.

00:18:04 – 00:18:10:	And it's simply not the case. If you have a general and you have a colonel, the general is his

00:18:10 – 00:18:15:	superior. That's literally what it's called. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a better soldier.

00:18:15 – 00:18:21:	He might be. He should be. But it means that he is in the superior position and his authority

00:18:21 – 00:18:27:	must be obeyed because of his position. And what God has revealed in Scripture is that man

00:18:28 – 00:18:34:	is superior by virtue of the position that he holds in creation over all of it. And you mentioned

00:18:34 – 00:18:41:	earlier that man was over all of creation. That's why all of creation fell when when Jesus died

00:18:41 – 00:18:49:	in redeemed creation. He didn't just pay for our personal sins. He paid for the disobedient

00:18:49 – 00:18:55:	tree that he cursed that didn't produce fruit. And he paid for the wind that he had to rebuke

00:18:55 – 00:19:00:	because it was blowing and trying to kill them. All of creation fell. And while we wouldn't

00:19:00 – 00:19:07:	categorize the disobedience of creation as sin per se, it is the result of the fall. It's the

00:19:07 – 00:19:14:	result of everything that was under Adam's dominion having lost that proper order. And you will

00:19:14 – 00:19:20:	see, as you mentioned, there's there's a reflection of this thing where sometimes that order is

00:19:20 – 00:19:25:	still properly established where your dog should obey you and your dog shouldn't naturally obey

00:19:26 – 00:19:31:	you. But you must assert your superiority. And in dog training, one of the worst, really the

00:19:31 – 00:19:37:	worst mistake you can make is letting your dog run wild. If your dog is in charge, if your dog

00:19:37 – 00:19:43:	is calling the shots, he will think, well, there's a hierarchy and you're not on top. So I must be.

00:19:43 – 00:19:48:	And as soon as your dog realizes that he's going to run wild and you will never get him back under

00:19:48 – 00:19:56:	control. And that reality does not only apply to animals. It applies to people too, where there is

00:19:56 – 00:20:02:	an order and it is usurped. There's no way to get it properly restored without a lot of pain

00:20:02 – 00:20:06:	because everyone is like, well, hey, I was getting away with it. Why should I stop now?

00:20:07 – 00:20:15:	And we're at the tail end of a century or so of exactly that people just running entirely wild

00:20:15 – 00:20:20:	and doing as they please. And as you mentioned, egalitarianism, we have these priors, these

00:20:20 – 00:20:26:	presuppositions that we inherited from the Enlightenment and they go completely unexamined.

00:20:26 – 00:20:33:	And so this presupposition, this egalitarian prior, this belief that all men are created equal

00:20:34 – 00:20:41:	is just false. It is objectively, demonstrably false and we all know it because we have all been

00:20:41 – 00:20:48:	in a situation where someone was either significantly better or significantly worse at something

00:20:48 – 00:20:55:	than we were at the time. And so there are those who are significantly better at task A, those who

00:20:55 – 00:21:02:	are significantly better at task B. They're not equal with respect to those tasks at which they

00:21:02 – 00:21:07:	are better or worse. And the same thing is true of human attributes. There are those who are

00:21:07 – 00:21:13:	more intelligent. There are more those who are more attractive. There are all sorts of differences.

00:21:13 – 00:21:21:	Man to man is not equal. Man to woman is certainly not equal. And so these fundamentally flawed

00:21:21 – 00:21:29:	priors that we have imported from the secular world from objectively, aggressively, godless world

00:21:30 – 00:21:36:	are just corrupting the church because they go unexamined and even pastors have bought into them.

00:21:36 – 00:21:42:	And we see that like you mentioned when they have women stand up and speak at even worse teach,

00:21:42 – 00:21:50:	but just speaking at a pastor's conference. That is that enlightenment coming back to bite us because

00:21:50 – 00:21:58:	well, we are truly progressive and we are including women and you're not being inclusive. You're not

00:21:58 – 00:22:02:	being progressive and we can discuss whether progressive is even a good thing, but it's not is the

00:22:02 – 00:22:09:	short version. What you are doing is undermining what God built. You are undermining his order.

00:22:09 – 00:22:17:	You are being faithless if you are a pastor to your office. And actually I almost skipped over

00:22:17 – 00:22:24:	something that is worth mentioning with regard to Genesis 127 because we miss it in the English.

00:22:24 – 00:22:29:	And this is one of those cases where it actually surprisingly Hebrew helps a little bit

00:22:30 – 00:22:38:	because it's even more blatant what is being said in Genesis 127 in the Hebrew because we have

00:22:38 – 00:22:44:	of course Anthropone in the Greek, but what word is that translating from the Hebrew Adam?

00:22:45 – 00:22:53:	The word for man is Adam. So you have, he made the man Adam in his image.

00:22:53 – 00:23:01:	There is no missing what is being said there. Adam is the one who is made in the truest,

00:23:01 – 00:23:07:	strictest and highest sense in the image of God. And specifically Adam because all of us who

00:23:07 – 00:23:13:	followed after him are fallen until of course we get to the new Adam. Absolutely.

00:23:14 – 00:23:20:	You had mentioned or referred back to talking about the pastor's conferences and girls teaching

00:23:20 – 00:23:25:	pastors anything it's time to move on to defining what teaching is.

00:23:28 – 00:23:34:	First I just want to go over the fall because I want to point out something vitally important

00:23:34 – 00:23:43:	about women in the fall. And so of course in the fall God's cursing of creation. You have first

00:23:43 – 00:23:48:	the serpent who is essentially just dismissed. There's no discussion here because the serpent is

00:23:48 – 00:23:55:	just cursed because of course it's Satan. But to the woman he said, I will surely multiply your

00:23:55 – 00:24:02:	pain in childbearing. In pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband

00:24:03 – 00:24:09:	and he shall rule over you. But of course as has been mentioned a number of times by a number of

00:24:09 – 00:24:14:	commentators that your desire shall be for your husband is actually better rendered into the English

00:24:15 – 00:24:20:	as your desire shall be against your husband. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband.

00:24:20 – 00:24:29:	And so how is woman cursed? Woman is cursed in the same not the same exact way but in the same

00:24:29 – 00:24:36:	sense as man is cursed. Man is cursed with regard to the soil of course by the sweat of your face

00:24:36 – 00:24:45:	you shall eat bread because the curse falls on the core of the duties what that person is.

00:24:45 – 00:24:50:	And so man is cursed with regard to his work because work isn't supposed to be labor and toil.

00:24:50 – 00:24:55:	Work was something God made for us to do. It's one of the things we are supposed to do

00:24:55 – 00:25:04:	but it was not suffering before the fall. And so woman is cursed in two ways. Really one way to

00:25:04 – 00:25:12:	aspects of it. She is cursed with regard to womanhood, motherhood, and of course being a wife

00:25:13 – 00:25:19:	all tied together. She is cursed in regard to being a mother by having childbearing be painful.

00:25:19 – 00:25:26:	It is now a process that will come at a cost that was not the case before the fall. And so that

00:25:26 – 00:25:33:	strikes at the core of what woman is supposed to be which is wife and mother. And so the desire

00:25:34 – 00:25:39:	against your husband strikes at that other aspect, the central aspect of being a wife because

00:25:39 – 00:25:49:	first wife then mother. And so woman after the fall desires to rule. She desires to usurp the

00:25:49 – 00:25:55:	office that rightly belongs to her husband. She desires to become head. And that is the case

00:25:56 – 00:26:01:	even for women who are attempting to live as they ought and to behave as they ought.

00:26:02 – 00:26:09:	Those women will struggle against that sinful nature in themselves and will try to suppress

00:26:09 – 00:26:14:	the desire to usurp the office of their husbands, to actually submit to their husbands as they

00:26:14 – 00:26:19:	are commanded to do and as they would have been able to do without effort prior to the fall.

00:26:19 – 00:26:26:	But today of course, it requires effort on the part of both the woman and the man.

00:26:26 – 00:26:33:	And man's head of course has the higher duty. He has to keep the women in his life under control.

00:26:33 – 00:26:37:	That is part of what it means to be the head. That is part of what it means to be a man.

00:26:39 – 00:26:43:	As you mentioned there, I just want to reiterate this because it's so important.

00:26:43 – 00:26:50:	And man's work was cursed. His work is a ground. Woman's work is cursed. Her work is childbearing

00:26:50 – 00:26:56:	and obviously child rearing, raising children. Her work is in cursed in the field because she

00:26:56 – 00:27:03:	shouldn't properly be in the field. The man should be providing. Yes, there's that too.

00:27:05 – 00:27:11:	There's two types of working the field that man does. Woman is a field. Indeed.

00:27:11 – 00:27:19:	And to get back to what I said about feminism, it exists to upend all of this, all of it.

00:27:19 – 00:27:28:	First wave, second wave, there's no version of the pro-female machinations in the secular or

00:27:28 – 00:27:35:	religious well realm. They can be sanctified. You cannot take Scripture and take 19th and 20th

00:27:35 – 00:27:42:	century values and somehow legitimize them. And that's something we'll get into in a little bit.

00:27:42 – 00:27:47:	But there's the genealogy these ideas that we need to take seriously because people want to

00:27:47 – 00:27:52:	just grab whatever from the world, which is something that we were actually accused of tonight

00:27:52 – 00:27:57:	by one of the pastors on Twitter of just sort of borrowing cultural things and importing them

00:27:57 – 00:28:02:	into Christianity. Nothing to be further from the truth. All we're doing is pointing to Scripture.

00:28:02 – 00:28:07:	We're having to point to Scripture about the issue of girls teaching and girls writing books

00:28:07 – 00:28:14:	in doing this other work that rightly belongs to men exclusively because, as you said, even

00:28:14 – 00:28:18:	well-meeting, well-intentioned, otherwise faithful Christian men and women

00:28:20 – 00:28:25:	have been so secularized that they don't know they're being secular. They don't know that they're

00:28:25 – 00:28:30:	being worldly when they whitenite for girls who are doing things that they shouldn't be doing.

00:28:30 – 00:28:34:	And when a man speaks up and says, hey, that's not your job.

00:28:35 – 00:28:41:	There's a dog pile against the man who's pointing to Scripture in defense of a girl who is usurping

00:28:41 – 00:28:44:	her father, her son, her husband, and God himself.

00:28:47 – 00:28:53:	And it just comes back to we live at the tail end of generations of faithlessness. And that is a

00:28:53 – 00:29:00:	very hard thing to undo because you have these presuppositions and these priors and indoctrination.

00:29:00 – 00:29:05:	It's not even right to call it education over a course of decades, almost a century,

00:29:05 – 00:29:10:	generations where they have just wholesale adopted the secular culture.

00:29:12 – 00:29:19:	And that comes out everywhere. Just look at the, you could look at the timeline and see what happens.

00:29:19 – 00:29:25:	Well, we have the 19th Amendment. Now women are able to exercise political power, which of course

00:29:25 – 00:29:30:	is an exercise of headship. And we can discuss whether it's right for all men to exercise that

00:29:30 – 00:29:35:	even. Of course, it's not, but it is absolutely wrong for women to exercise it. And what does the

00:29:35 – 00:29:40:	church do in response? Well, now women can vote in our congregations. It follows the culture.

00:29:40 – 00:29:47:	It doesn't follow Scripture. It doesn't listen because we know what the church is. The church is a

00:29:47 – 00:29:55:	harlot. The church rebels against Christ in the same way Eve rebels against Adam in the same

00:29:55 – 00:30:02:	way woman rebels against man. And Christ has to bring the church back to himself. Man has to

00:30:02 – 00:30:08:	bring woman back to himself. It is that constant fight against that fallen nature until things are

00:30:08 – 00:30:16:	perfected in the new creation. Absolutely. And I, I think one of the problems that we struggle with

00:30:16 – 00:30:23:	is that so many pastors and others want to define these battles and terms of the quote unquote

00:30:23 – 00:30:29:	culture war as though there's somehow this political sphere that exists sort of in the in the

00:30:29 – 00:30:36:	periphery or in the distance. And people are importing political things into the church and into

00:30:36 – 00:30:42:	the Christian life. And it's sometimes it's causing harm and sometimes it's doing good. And what

00:30:42 – 00:30:50:	happens is when everyone has a tendency to think, well, I'm a Christian. And I'm not sorry for

00:30:50 – 00:30:54:	anything I'm doing right now. Therefore everything I'm doing right now and everything I believe

00:30:54 – 00:31:00:	must be Christian because I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible. So it's not possible for me to be

00:31:00 – 00:31:07:	disobeying God in an idolatrous and wicked way because I love God. And that is the exact

00:31:07 – 00:31:12:	opposite of what Christians should be thinking. And frankly, it's what we're accused. I've

00:31:12 – 00:31:18:	worked used of ignoring what Scripture says in doing what we want. And I personally find that

00:31:18 – 00:31:25:	laughable because if I were to invent a religion, it would absolutely not be Christianity. If I wanted

00:31:25 – 00:31:29:	to make up my own rules, there would be a lot more some things and a lot less of others. It would

00:31:29 – 00:31:36:	not look like what we do. This is not self-serving. When I open Scripture to any page, I see myself

00:31:36 – 00:31:44:	in my own personal sims condemned. And so it's no surprise to me when I examine my priors after

00:31:44 – 00:31:50:	decades of believing, for example, things like libertarianism were fine. I never examine those

00:31:50 – 00:31:54:	priors. They were sold to me by Christians. There were Christians who said, oh, yeah, this is great.

00:31:54 – 00:31:59:	This is fine. It's political. It's totally consistent with God's word. It's in this separate

00:31:59 – 00:32:05:	sphere. So to have fun, it's better than communism. Like, well, I don't like communism. So libertarian

00:32:05 – 00:32:14:	ism must be fine. And so when we escape from examining our priors rigorously as they relate

00:32:14 – 00:32:19:	to Scripture, you can justify anything. And the problem is what we're facing now is that

00:32:21 – 00:32:27:	proof texting is a terrible thing. And it's something that's easy to do and it's hard to get

00:32:27 – 00:32:33:	away from. But it's why I mentioned the genealogy of ideas earlier. And also we both talked about the

00:32:34 – 00:32:42:	timeline of these things. There's a timeline of what women have done in the church, what women

00:32:42 – 00:32:48:	have done in the home, what women have done in the workplace. In every century, where Christianity

00:32:48 – 00:32:56:	exists, you will see roles of a certain nature. Like I said, the outset, Mrs. Robert Price was

00:32:56 – 00:33:04:	married to Mr. Robert Price or Dr. Robert Price. Her identity was as her husband's wife,

00:33:04 – 00:33:10:	first and foremost, to him. He didn't call her Mrs. Robert Price because she belonged to him.

00:33:10 – 00:33:15:	He called her in a much more personal way, but strangers or those who were not intimately

00:33:15 – 00:33:25:	familiar as they were should not do that. And that was the norm until our grandparents basically.

00:33:25 – 00:33:30:	And what's happening everywhere now is this is a Lutheran problem. This is a societal problem.

00:33:31 – 00:33:36:	And it's the reason that the quote-unquote based and trad crowd constantly gets dragged by

00:33:36 – 00:33:41:	these pastors is that we're skipping right over all the crap that they've been selling us

00:33:41 – 00:33:45:	and their grandparents have been selling us. And we're looking back to prior centuries. And

00:33:46 – 00:33:54:	I think that Lutherans are particularly vulnerable to rejecting appeals to history because Rome did

00:33:54 – 00:33:58:	it to us when Luther popped up and is like, Hey, I'm reading the Bible and I'm not finding this

00:33:58 – 00:34:04:	stuff you're teaching. I think we're doing it wrong. Their argument was, well, we've been doing this

00:34:04 – 00:34:09:	for forever. The church has always believed this and said, you're wrong. And he said, but scripture

00:34:09 – 00:34:14:	says otherwise. And then his others have mentioned he and he and the other Lutherans basically invented

00:34:14 – 00:34:20:	a pitristics to demonstrate that no actually many in the church didn't believe what we believe

00:34:20 – 00:34:26:	in the 16th century and today. And it was in fact Rome who had departed from tradition.

00:34:27 – 00:34:37:	So tradition appeals are not per se invalid, but they are, they can either be good or bad.

00:34:37 – 00:34:42:	They always need to be examined in terms of their priors. And the priors in Latin and Greek and

00:34:42 – 00:34:49:	these other languages were that women had headship under men. The woman was the body that man was the

00:34:49 – 00:34:55:	head. And so that's reflected even in the most basically linguistic elements. It's reflected in

00:34:55 – 00:35:02:	job roles of which the woman existed in the home to be helped me to her husband in his household

00:35:02 – 00:35:09:	for his, his vocation, whatever it was. She was to act and service to that and everything that she

00:35:09 – 00:35:20:	did. A woman is given by the father to the husband to be married. And that is a transfer of title

00:35:20 – 00:35:28:	that no one wants to deal with today. But even the even the forms of the ceremony and the ways

00:35:28 – 00:35:34:	we describe things, at least until very recently, reflected the past that the fact that the headship

00:35:34 – 00:35:39:	went from the father to the husband. And that is godly and that is proper. And wherever you have

00:35:39 – 00:35:45:	girls acting in a way that is contrary to the dominion of either a husband or a father,

00:35:46 – 00:35:51:	whatever they do after that is inherently illegitimate because they're in rebellion. They're

00:35:51 – 00:35:58:	in open rebellion by virtue of their life. And that's also the norm today. And we see pastors

00:35:58 – 00:36:03:	worrying about, well, where do I send my girl to college? And we beg them, please, please don't.

00:36:03 – 00:36:07:	Don't send them to college. Your daughter will become a whore in college, even if she goes to

00:36:07 – 00:36:12:	a Lutheran college. And it was like, oh, no, well, the Christian colleges are fine. It's the

00:36:12 – 00:36:18:	it's those pagans like, no, it isn't. It is rebellion for her to leave your household without

00:36:18 – 00:36:24:	being sent to a man's house to be his husband. And because we've spent so many decades in

00:36:24 – 00:36:30:	now centuries in engaging in some of these activities that we think that since we're Christian,

00:36:30 – 00:36:34:	it must be fine. When in fact, we're Christian, we've been told better when the world hasn't.

00:36:34 – 00:36:40:	And not only we disobey God, but we are setting the worst example for others. And so when the

00:36:40 – 00:36:46:	based and trad crowd looks at what our own churches are teaching today, and they see it's inconsistent

00:36:46 – 00:36:51:	with scripture and with the history of the Christian church, they just look elsewhere because

00:36:51 – 00:36:59:	we don't look Christian to them in they're not wrong. It's absolutely true. And we have the

00:36:59 – 00:37:07:	serious problem where we actually have pagans who are being more faithful in some ways than Christians.

00:37:07 – 00:37:13:	Of course, they're wrong when it comes to the core theological questions. They're wrong,

00:37:13 – 00:37:19:	obviously, unjustification and soteriology. They don't understand those things. But when it comes

00:37:19 – 00:37:24:	to ontology, when it comes to creation, when it comes to the nature of God, there are a lot of

00:37:24 – 00:37:32:	pagans who understand it a lot better than most Christians, including many pastors. And that is not

00:37:34 – 00:37:39:	what we need to have happening. We cannot permit that because as you mentioned, what does that do?

00:37:39 – 00:37:43:	It drives all the young men out of the church. And if you drive all the young men out of the church,

00:37:43 – 00:37:49:	you have killed the church. The church cannot exist with just women. That's not a church.

00:37:50 – 00:37:56:	The church has to have men, not least of all because only men can be pastors, but also because men

00:37:56 – 00:38:01:	as head have to be the ones in charge, have to be the ones who are teaching. And some men

00:38:03 – 00:38:08:	are simply resorting to permitting women to do these things because those men are lazy. They are

00:38:08 – 00:38:13:	derelict in their duty. They don't want to have to do the things they are supposed to do. So they

00:38:13 – 00:38:17:	figured, well, women are good enough at it. Or even if you find a woman who is better at it,

00:38:17 – 00:38:22:	it is still the man's duty to do the task if it falls within the things assigned to man.

00:38:23 – 00:38:27:	But those men don't want to do it because it's so much easier if you just let women do it. And you

00:38:27 – 00:38:32:	don't have to fight with them then. Woman is naturally rebellious. You are going to have to

00:38:32 – 00:38:37:	train a woman. You're going to have to train a wife. You are going to have to deal with this constant

00:38:37 – 00:38:42:	desire she has because she is a fallen creature. And the curse that she has is rebellion

00:38:42 – 00:38:47:	against rightful authority. You have to deal with that. And most men, today at least don't want to

00:38:47 – 00:38:50:	have to deal with it. And you don't have to deal with it if you just let her do whatever she wants.

00:38:51 – 00:38:57:	But if you let her do whatever she wants, she will tear down everything. She will tear down society

00:38:57 – 00:39:03:	and the church. And we see that happening. And she will do that even when she is well-meaning

00:39:03 – 00:39:08:	because the very act itself is usurpation. It has nothing to do with good intentions.

00:39:08 – 00:39:13:	It has nothing to do with how well she knows the catechism or loves Jesus. If she's doing these

00:39:13 – 00:39:19:	things, she is acting in an evil way per se. And that must be stopped per se.

00:39:21 – 00:39:26:	And that is one thing that so many pastors and others do not understand or at least refuse to

00:39:26 – 00:39:36:	accept. You can do something that for all appearances is a great thing. It is a good thing.

00:39:37 – 00:39:44:	But because of who you are, because of the actor, because of the nature, the status of the actor,

00:39:44 – 00:39:50:	the act itself is evil. And pastors should understand that. As should every Christian,

00:39:50 – 00:39:56:	particularly Lutherans, because our doctrine on this is exactly correct, is perfectly sound.

00:39:57 – 00:40:04:	If you do good works and you are not a Christian, they are sin. If you go out and feed the homeless,

00:40:04 – 00:40:09:	you provide them with shelter, you clothe them, you visit people in prison, you do all of these

00:40:09 – 00:40:17:	wonderful things, but you aren't a Christian. They're filthy rags. It's sin. None of it is good.

00:40:17 – 00:40:23:	If you are a Christian, the sin that taints those things is removed, is not counted against you

00:40:23 – 00:40:29:	because you are in Christ, again, headship. And because you are in Christ, your good works are good.

00:40:30 – 00:40:37:	And so it is the status of the individual that matters. And so woman cannot exercise headship.

00:40:37 – 00:40:43:	No matter how well she may do it, you can have someone who is extremely good at the task

00:40:44 – 00:40:50:	and is still prohibited from engaging in that task. And we just look at it because we,

00:40:51 – 00:40:55:	at least in the US, we're largely coming at it with this capitalist mindset of what we should

00:40:55 – 00:41:01:	just pick the person who is best at the job and that person should do it. And that's just not how

00:41:01 – 00:41:06:	it works because there are certain people who should or should not do the job. And so, for instance,

00:41:06 – 00:41:13:	you should not have female soldiers. Is there possibly a woman who is a better soldier than a

00:41:13 – 00:41:19:	particular man? Yes, that could happen. Not often, most women are terrible soldiers compared to men,

00:41:19 – 00:41:26:	but you could conceivably find one who is better. But it would still be sin for her to be a soldier,

00:41:26 – 00:41:33:	it would still be sin to permit it because that is a task that is restricted to men. Women should not

00:41:33 – 00:41:39:	be engaged in it. And so we have to understand ontology, the nature of things. And of course, duty.

00:41:41 – 00:41:46:	Absolutely. So let's talk about teaching. That's why we're here today.

00:41:47 – 00:41:59:	Teaching gets to the heart of the Lutheran conception of vocation. Lutherans have this correct

00:42:00 – 00:42:09:	doctrine of vocation. There is the same as vocal. It means a calling. In this case, a calling from

00:42:09 – 00:42:16:	God. It means that God both created you and then called you to a purpose. So there are vocations

00:42:16 – 00:42:22:	like father and husband of being a pastor as a vocation, being a mother as a vocation.

00:42:23 – 00:42:31:	When God calls you into a vocation, there are certain duties that go along with it. And you are

00:42:31 – 00:42:38:	to fulfill those duties, not because it's the job, but because it is your duty to God. You have been

00:42:38 – 00:42:45:	entrusted with the care of whatever that duty is and is obedience to God for a man or a woman

00:42:45 – 00:42:55:	to faithfully execute those duties in his or her vocation. So as we mentioned in the part about

00:42:55 – 00:43:03:	Genesis, there are vocations that rightly, strictly can only belong to men. That which is work,

00:43:03 – 00:43:13:	that which is outside the household, you will find that those both inscripture and elsewhere

00:43:13 – 00:43:20:	rightly belong to men and a girl will not be called to them by God. She may be thrust into them

00:43:20 – 00:43:27:	by evil circumstance or she may be usurping interactions. But if she ends up wearing one of

00:43:27 – 00:43:34:	those hats, it's because she and others have disobeyed God. And so the question that arose on

00:43:34 – 00:43:41:	Twitter in the last few weeks and elsewhere is, is it teaching to write a book? Is it teaching

00:43:41 – 00:43:47:	for a girl to write a book? Is it pastoral teaching for a girl to write a theological book?

00:43:48 – 00:43:55:	So the first thing we need to talk about is whether teaching is inherently done with authority.

00:43:56 – 00:44:01:	And this is where the Lutheran doctrine of vocation completely falls apart. I'm going to say

00:44:01 – 00:44:04:	some things here. They'll probably make a lot of Lutherans very angry because they'll be

00:44:04 – 00:44:10:	uncomfortable with the idea that maybe the way we talk about things can lead to error. But that's

00:44:10 – 00:44:15:	exactly what's out going on here. And we've seen a left and right from especially pastors

00:44:16 – 00:44:24:	discussing the intersection of the passage in 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 regarding

00:44:24 – 00:44:32:	the proper role of women in the church. I have the first Timothy 2 section pulled up your

00:44:32 – 00:44:39:	space. We'll read it so at least we remind people of what it says. Hopefully most of our audience

00:44:39 – 00:44:45:	will be familiar with it, but nevertheless, I desire then that in every place the men should

00:44:45 – 00:44:50:	pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling. Likewise also that women should adorn

00:44:50 – 00:44:55:	themselves in respectable apparel with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and

00:44:55 – 00:45:01:	gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness with good

00:45:01 – 00:45:08:	works. That a woman learn quietly in all submissiveness, I do not permit a woman to teach or to

00:45:08 – 00:45:15:	exercise authority over a man, rather she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve,

00:45:15 – 00:45:21:	and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor, yet she will be

00:45:21 – 00:45:28:	saved through childbearing if they continue in faith. Now there's just, I was going to point out

00:45:28 – 00:45:33:	there are a lot of things in there that need to be addressed because there are so many places

00:45:33 – 00:45:39:	that modern Christians and unfortunately many pastors go off the rails. One in particular,

00:45:39 – 00:45:46:	I'll address before we move on to the next part of this, nowhere in there does it say this is

00:45:46 – 00:45:53:	restricted to the church. Nothing in there says it's restricted to the church. In fact, what does it

00:45:53 – 00:45:59:	say? I desire then that in every place, it doesn't say in every church, just in the church,

00:45:59 – 00:46:05:	in houses of worship, in every Christian home. No, it says every place. These are instructions

00:46:06 – 00:46:12:	for life and the appeal is to the order of creation to the nature of men and women. It is not

00:46:13 – 00:46:20:	simply a set of rules for how we conduct things in the church. This is a statement about the reality

00:46:21 – 00:46:27:	of the world in which we live, the reality of man and woman, and just how things should be

00:46:27 – 00:46:33:	conducted, if we are to be Christians in our lives and not just for an hour on Sunday.

00:46:34 – 00:46:42:	Absolutely. If you were to look at that list of things that God commands through

00:46:42 – 00:46:49:	Paul's writing and limit it to one hour during the divine service on Sunday, you would create

00:46:49 – 00:46:54:	hell on earth. If we're going to be given a world where all these things are permissible for

00:46:54 – 00:47:01:	everyone except when they're in church, you have destroyed civilization. And frankly, we're not

00:47:01 – 00:47:05:	far from it when you go through that list of things. As you said, they're all happening.

00:47:05 – 00:47:09:	They're happening outside of church. And then, of course, they're being brought into church

00:47:09 – 00:47:16:	because when Christians fail to listen to God, when Christians are ashamed of what God has said,

00:47:16 – 00:47:22:	and they backpedal, and they circumscribe, and they narrow down God's law until they're so

00:47:22 – 00:47:30:	little of it left that pretty much anyone can buy into it. Satan is one. And that is what we are

00:47:30 – 00:47:37:	battling today. And the reason that I said that the Lutheran doctrine of vocation falls apart.

00:47:37 – 00:47:43:	It's for that very reason. Is it because Timothy is a pastoral epistle and around that,

00:47:44 – 00:47:50:	Paul is describing things within the church. Christians read that and say, well, this can only

00:47:50 – 00:47:55:	apply to the church because I don't want to deal with the implications of it not applying to the

00:47:55 – 00:48:02:	church. If it applies to the grocery store, if it applies to the school, if it applies to

00:48:02 – 00:48:07:	the government, then we're in trouble. I'm in trouble because I am participating in sin.

00:48:07 – 00:48:12:	And I know that I am free from sin. That's kind of where we are. And it's simply false.

00:48:14 – 00:48:21:	It's interesting to note that grammatically, the Holy Spirit says,

00:48:21 – 00:48:27:	little women learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not a woman permit a woman to teach or

00:48:27 – 00:48:33:	to exercise authority. So teaching is separate from exercising authority because there are

00:48:33 – 00:48:40:	kinds of exercising authority that are not teaching. But it is also connected in the same sense

00:48:40 – 00:48:45:	because teaching is a form of the exercise of authority. And that's been one of the roots of

00:48:46 – 00:48:52:	the argument online that I want to address now. When a Lutheran thinks about authority,

00:48:53 – 00:48:58:	we think about it in terms of vocation. So we think father, we think husband, we think teacher

00:48:58 – 00:49:06:	in a classroom or a pastor over his flock or a prince over his dominion. And those are all

00:49:06 – 00:49:14:	vocations where God has called a particular person, a particular man to a place has given him a

00:49:14 – 00:49:22:	domain, has given him people under his care. And rebellion against that authority is sin

00:49:22 – 00:49:27:	all by itself. If you disobey your father and he is not doing something is

00:49:28 – 00:49:35:	if assuming that he is not directly contributing God, your disobedience to your father is disobedience

00:49:35 – 00:49:42:	to God because of his authority as your father. So when Lutheran think about vocation, they think

00:49:42 – 00:49:50:	that will all authority stems from and flows from vocation. And that's simply not true because

00:49:50 – 00:49:55:	there are two kinds of authority. And this is something that we all understand naturally. And I'll

00:49:55 – 00:50:02:	give you the example of this very podcast is Corey and I are speaking to you. We are teaching.

00:50:02 – 00:50:09:	We are exercising authority. How so? Because I have the microphone and you have the speakers.

00:50:10 – 00:50:17:	I am actively speaking and you are passively listening. I am giving and you are receiving.

00:50:17 – 00:50:24:	That is inherently authority per se just by virtually virtue of the structure of the thing.

00:50:25 – 00:50:32:	Now that is not to suggest that if you disagree with me, you're you're sinning, you're transgressing

00:50:32 – 00:50:39:	against God because this is the type of authority where although it is inherent in the act,

00:50:39 – 00:50:44:	it does not compel submission except through the veracity of its claims.

00:50:44 – 00:50:52:	So if I sit here and talk and I cite scripture and you agree with what I say about scripture,

00:50:52 – 00:50:59:	you're doing that because the Holy Spirit acting in you hears the voice of God in the way I'm

00:50:59 – 00:51:05:	framing something, not that I'm a prophet, not that I'm speaking as God, but that I'm saying what

00:51:05 – 00:51:12:	God says in God within you hears and says, yes, I believe that. That's between you and God. If you

00:51:12 – 00:51:17:	agree with that, you're not submitting to me, you're submitting to God. And if you disagree with it,

00:51:18 – 00:51:22:	if I'm wrong, then you're just disagreeing with me. If I'm right, you're disagreeing with me and

00:51:22 – 00:51:29:	God, but your only sin would be against God because the authority of my speech does not extend to

00:51:29 – 00:51:36:	condemnation of someone who doesn't like it. There are lots of examples of this in the world.

00:51:36 – 00:51:45:	If you go to a lecture, whoever the lecture is is standing. He's typically standing behind a podium.

00:51:45 – 00:51:51:	It's raised. You are seated. You're lower than him. Every physical element of the process of

00:51:51 – 00:51:59:	teaching reinforces the authority of the speaker and the submission of the listener.

00:51:59 – 00:52:04:	Now, in the case of teaching, there are also actually two different kinds of teaching. I had

00:52:04 – 00:52:13:	mentioned that teacher is a vocation. It is a vocation in the realm where a student goes to a classroom,

00:52:13 – 00:52:20:	the teacher takes attendance. In that case, the student has been assigned to that teacher by the

00:52:20 – 00:52:26:	school system by the parents, whatever. There is a one-to-many relationship of the teacher to the

00:52:26 – 00:52:33:	students, but there is a relationship of authority and accountability because the teacher has a

00:52:33 – 00:52:39:	responsibility for the performance of the students. And that is unlike a lecture, that is unlike a

00:52:39 – 00:52:45:	podcast, and that is unlike a book where there is also a one-to-many relationship. But the many

00:52:45 – 00:52:54:	are typically anonymous. There is no accountability from the one to God to make sure that the many

00:52:55 – 00:53:01:	cue to whatever has been said. So the authority is very limited, but nevertheless it is authority

00:53:01 – 00:53:10:	for a man to stand up and pronounce something is done as an act of authority.

00:53:10 – 00:53:14:	Now, maybe usurpation, depending on vocation. There may be cases where, you know,

00:53:14 – 00:53:20:	for example, in the middle of a church service where the pastor is speaking, he's preaching.

00:53:20 – 00:53:24:	If some man stands up in the middle of the service and starts arguing with him,

00:53:25 – 00:53:33:	he's the man is acting with authority, but it's evil. It's a bad type of usurpation

00:53:33 – 00:53:39:	because you're usurping that which the pastor is rightly doing, even if the pastor is wrong.

00:53:40 – 00:53:45:	They're very limited circumstances where it would ever be permissible to do that. I wouldn't say

00:53:45 – 00:53:49:	this should never be done, but there should be so struck, stored, so extraordinary that you should

00:53:49 – 00:53:54:	probably never hear about it. One would hope. Basically, they'd have to be outright heresy.

00:53:55 – 00:54:02:	Yeah, and that does occur, but God willing, it won't happen in our church as at least for a while.

00:54:02 – 00:54:08:	So the reason for pointing out that there are two different kinds of authority and teaching

00:54:08 – 00:54:14:	is to get to the heart of what has been discussed online about girls writing books and girls

00:54:14 – 00:54:19:	writing theology books, because that's exactly what's happening in the Missouri Senate today,

00:54:19 – 00:54:26:	and has been going on for quite some time. Concordia Posh publishing now, CPH is an arm of the

00:54:26 – 00:54:33:	Missouri Senate. It is a holy captive business that belongs to the corporation of the LCMS.

00:54:33 – 00:54:39:	It's a business entity, and this is a game that gets played whenever these questions come up.

00:54:40 – 00:54:45:	On one hand, everything that CPH publishes must go through doctrinal review,

00:54:46 – 00:54:52:	because CPH is the church for the purposes of publishing things that should be sound doctrine.

00:54:53 – 00:55:01:	But when men stand up and say, hey, but we have girls teaching, suddenly the church says,

00:55:01 – 00:55:06:	it's just a publishing, it's like print on demand. They can say what they say, and it's not the

00:55:06 – 00:55:13:	church saying it, and you just need to settle down and quit hating women, which is not what anyone

00:55:13 – 00:55:21:	has said at any point. What has been said is that, again, there are several tiers of this question,

00:55:21 – 00:55:29:	is the publishing house that belongs to a church teaching? Now, the Missouri Senate

00:55:29 – 00:55:33:	played lots of games I don't even want to get into, because I just find them disgusting. But

00:55:33 – 00:55:37:	the answer is yes or no, depending on how you want to interpret it, it's all whistling.

00:55:38 – 00:55:43:	The more basic question, which is what we want to talk about, is whether publishing a book

00:55:43 – 00:55:50:	period is teaching. And again, first Timothy says that teaching is exercising of authority.

00:55:51 – 00:55:57:	And that is the point that I'm trying to make. And when the pastor say, well, no, it can't be

00:55:58 – 00:56:02:	not all teaching can be with authority because it doesn't touch on the pastoral office.

00:56:02 – 00:56:07:	The point that we're trying to make is it doesn't matter because that section of first Timothy

00:56:07 – 00:56:15:	is not about the pastoral office. It is not about what pastors do in the pulpit versus what the

00:56:15 – 00:56:22:	lady are permitted to do, whether male or female. The question is much more fundamental. And this is

00:56:22 – 00:56:26:	where Lutherans have gotten, we just become retarded. We don't understand these ontological

00:56:26 – 00:56:33:	questions of what is the root of the authority to do this. And thank God for telling us right in

00:56:33 – 00:56:42:	the text that the order of creation is the revealed nature of the difference. Eve was deceived.

00:56:43 – 00:56:47:	Now that's that's profound. If you're talking about girls publishing theological books,

00:56:47 – 00:56:52:	God said it wasn't Adam who was tricked by Satan. It was the girl who was tricked by Satan.

00:56:52 – 00:56:57:	And that is the reason why girls can't teach. And for pastors to stand up and say, well,

00:56:57 – 00:57:01:	that just means in church, or that just means, you know, maybe not theological books or certain

00:57:01 – 00:57:06:	kinds of theological books, but maybe not the really hardcore ones. It's nonsense. If a girl

00:57:06 – 00:57:13:	is teaching, and she is the one who was deceived by Satan, she is usurping the created order

00:57:13 – 00:57:18:	by opening her mouth. And this is where the egalitarian thing really just causes everyone to have

00:57:18 – 00:57:26:	a meltdown. The bottom line is very simple. If you are a girl, your will should be expressed

00:57:26 – 00:57:32:	through your father or through your husband. You should not have a public will expressed in any

00:57:32 – 00:57:37:	other way. That is headship. His query talked about, you know, the foot doesn't decide where to go.

00:57:37 – 00:57:43:	The foot doesn't talk. The mouth is on the head. The head speaks. And that's the reason that

00:57:43 – 00:57:47:	it's Mrs. Robert Price and not whatever her name was. I don't even have to know her name. I know

00:57:47 – 00:57:55:	she was Mrs. Robert Price. She was his wife. There's not a permissible circumstance under which

00:57:55 – 00:58:03:	a woman has her views of expressed in public. And that was the root of the 19th amendment. It's

00:58:03 – 00:58:08:	the root of all of this. It's the root of the feminist attack on the created order for the last

00:58:08 – 00:58:14:	hundred and however many years is to say, you know what? Girls, you know, it's girl power. Girls

00:58:14 – 00:58:18:	are going to express themselves. They're going to make their mark. They're going to do those things

00:58:18 – 00:58:25:	which they are capable of doing. And that's another part of the argument is that as Cory mentioned,

00:58:25 – 00:58:30:	you know, you said that it's not about whether or not they are good at it. And honestly, I think one

00:58:30 – 00:58:36:	of the reasons that a lot of these pastors are so willing to embrace all these girls doing

00:58:36 – 00:58:41:	stuff in their churches is that inside they know that they should never have been ordained.

00:58:41 – 00:58:45:	I think they know that they're not competent. And when they see the teaching abilities of some

00:58:45 – 00:58:53:	of the girls in their under their care, under their superior rule, they're ashamed because they

00:58:53 – 00:58:59:	can't do as well as the girls under them. And rather than trying to be by their pastors or maybe

00:58:59 – 00:59:03:	stepping down and saying, you know what? I'm not fit for this office. Instead, they choose to you

00:59:03 – 00:59:08:	serve God's order by elevating girls to do the job that God has tasked them with doing.

00:59:09 – 00:59:16:	There's that. And there is also they know that if they promote women, or at least they believe

00:59:16 – 00:59:21:	that if they promote women in today's society, it's true, that that will insulate them from criticism

00:59:21 – 00:59:26:	from others because look at how progressive I'm being. And I am including women. And I'm doing all

00:59:26 – 00:59:32:	these things that the culture loves which that should set off alarm bells for any Christian. But

00:59:32 – 00:59:38:	they do that because then they're insulated from being criticized by other men. And if they

00:59:38 – 00:59:44:	were instead selecting competent men in their congregations, which unless they've absolutely failed

00:59:44 – 00:59:48:	as a pastor, they should have those in their churches because they don't necessarily want to

00:59:48 – 00:59:55:	select the men because that's competition, which is not how a man would actually see it. Yes,

00:59:55 – 00:59:59:	competition is healthy and it's a good thing. But ultimately, I'm not trying to destroy you

59:59 – 01:00:04
if I'm teaching and I'm better at teaching a particular subject. It's simply a recognition that

01:00:04 – 01:00:09:	God has given me certain abilities. God has given you certain abilities and they should be used

01:00:09 – 01:00:20:	to serve the church. And we don't, but modern Christians try to weasel around everything in

01:00:20 – 01:00:26:	scripture. Lutherans do this with some things. Thankfully, we do not do it when it comes to

01:00:26 – 01:00:33:	justification, when it comes to sanctification, when it comes to these core issues that we got

01:00:33 – 01:00:40:	absolutely right 500 years ago. And we have held correctly for 500 years, which thanks be to God

01:00:40 – 01:00:47:	that we have those. But that doesn't excuse us when it comes to all these other issues that

01:00:47 – 01:00:53:	if we don't get them wrong, we certainly don't get them right. And the CTCR and those who have

01:00:53 – 01:00:59:	crafted some of the documents made in the 60s definitely got them wrong. And so we have the

01:00:59 – 01:01:05:	injunctions in 1 Timothy that relate to creation that relate to things. How they are supposed to be

01:01:05 – 01:01:12:	in a Christian society. What Christians should attempt to create wherever they live? Well, we also

01:01:12 – 01:01:19:	have 1 Corinthians, which addresses the church explicitly. So we have society generally and the

01:01:19 – 01:01:25:	church explicitly. Well, what is 1 Corinthians say to women? As in all the churches of the saints,

01:01:25 – 01:01:31:	the women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be

01:01:31 – 01:01:37:	in submission as the law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their

01:01:37 – 01:01:44:	husbands at home, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. This could not possibly

01:01:44 – 01:01:52:	be more clear. It says that women are to be silent in the churches. It does not say that women are

01:01:52 – 01:01:59:	supposed to speak only if the pastor permits it or the pastor wants to have women lecturers or

01:01:59 – 01:02:05:	anything like that. No, women are to be silent in the church. Women should not be heard in the church.

01:02:06 – 01:02:12:	And yes, that applies to the Bible study as well as to the service. As much as we'd like to think

01:02:12 – 01:02:17:	that, oh, well, it's just no, don't weasel out of it by saying it's just the service. Where does it

01:02:17 – 01:02:22:	say just during the liturgy? Where does it say just during the service of the sacrament? Where does

01:02:22 – 01:02:27:	it say just during the service of the word? It doesn't say that anywhere because it says women are to

01:02:27 – 01:02:33:	be silent in the churches. Period. No exceptions. And now, of course, you'll have those who try to wiggle

01:02:33 – 01:02:41:	out of it by saying, well, a woman's not speaking if she writes a book. Yes, she is. If I write something

01:02:41 – 01:02:47:	and someone else reads it, I'm speaking in his head. That's what that is. So if I write a book

01:02:47 – 01:02:54:	and it is then used by a pastor to teach his sheep, I am teaching his sheep. I am exercising

01:02:54 – 01:02:59:	authority. And so if a woman writes a book and the pastor uses that in church, that woman is

01:02:59 – 01:03:06:	exercising authority over those sheep and that pastor is facilitating it. So he is now participating

01:03:06 – 01:03:12:	in her sin and making it worse because of his office and what he should be doing. And he,

01:03:12 – 01:03:17:	as a rightful head, is going to be held to a higher standard. And pastors should tremble at the

01:03:17 – 01:03:22:	fact that yes, you have opted for the stricter judgment. Maybe worry about that a little more.

01:03:24 – 01:03:30:	And that's a vital point is that this podcast is us speaking with authority. We may be completely

01:03:30 – 01:03:35:	wrong. That doesn't mean we're not speaking authority authoritatively. It means that we're

01:03:35 – 01:03:38:	sinning if we're in error because we're saying things that are lies.

01:03:39 – 01:03:45:	The example you gave of these pastors who say that they're excited to take these books published

01:03:45 – 01:03:52:	by girls and teach them in their congregations takes the other kind of authority and directly

01:03:52 – 01:03:59:	applies it because the crucial difference between you and I and a pastor is that we don't have a

01:03:59 – 01:04:05:	caller. When we speak, we do not bind consciences. And we see this every day whenever we've said

01:04:05 – 01:04:11:	anything online for years, we get dog piled by people who'd never give us the best construction.

01:04:11 – 01:04:15:	We're told that we're not brothers in Christ. We're told that we're evil. We're told

01:04:15 – 01:04:23:	every malign thing possible has been said about us directly for citing scripture. And frankly,

01:04:23 – 01:04:31:	that's okay. The point is that when I speak, when you speak, we don't bind anyone's conscience

01:04:31 – 01:04:37:	unless the Holy Spirit binds their conscience because although speaking has authority inherent

01:04:37 – 01:04:43:	to itself, that ends the moment that the person is done listening or reading because they go

01:04:43 – 01:04:48:	and process it and they decide, am I going to believe this or not? That's not the case when a pastor

01:04:49 – 01:04:55:	speaks. And that's not the case when a pastor sanctifies teaching that's usurping the order of

01:04:55 – 01:05:02:	creation by a girl doing it. When he does it, a pastor binds consciences. Anything a pastor says,

01:05:02 – 01:05:07:	where these wearing his collar or not says, this is what God says. It's implicit. And a lot of these

01:05:07 – 01:05:13:	guys are afraid of that because they know that the strict for judgment awaits. And so they just

01:05:13 – 01:05:17:	think, well, either, you know, it's on Twitter. So it's not really a big deal or I'm not going to

01:05:17 – 01:05:21:	say what I think because I don't want to get in trouble or cause a cause of kerfuffle.

01:05:22 – 01:05:29:	When these pastors sanctify usurpation of God's order, they are sinning. They're sinning against

01:05:29 – 01:05:34:	their flock. They're sinning against God. They're acting an idolatrous way and an evil way.

01:05:36 – 01:05:40:	I think as we're getting to the end of their time in this first episode, I want to point out that

01:05:41 – 01:05:48:	part of the reason that we chose the name stone choir is from the verse where Jesus describes

01:05:48 – 01:05:53:	how the very stones would cry out when the Pharisees implored him to silence his followers.

01:05:54 – 01:06:00:	The Pharisees were tired of Jesus followers praising him and giving adoration to his word.

01:06:00 – 01:06:05:	And Jesus understanding the vocation of a follower better than any man could

01:06:05 – 01:06:12:	under also understands creation itself. And Jesus told the Pharisees, if I tell my people to stop

01:06:12 – 01:06:18:	confessing me and to stop praising me, it will be creation itself. It will be a stone whose vocation

01:06:18 – 01:06:24:	is to just sit there silently and be a stone and do nothing. They would literally cry out. And

01:06:24 – 01:06:29:	that wasn't figurative. That wasn't a metaphor. Any more than bayonet Balum's donkey speaking to warn

01:06:29 – 01:06:36:	him was true. These stones would literally cry out if every man went silent. So the reason

01:06:36 – 01:06:43:	that we chose that name for this podcast is that you and I are layman. We have no vocation to speak

01:06:43 – 01:06:51:	apart from that vocation of Christian of Christian man of Christian man who has been given the aptitude

01:06:51 – 01:06:57:	and the discernment to read these things and to understand them and to explain them in a way

01:06:57 – 01:07:04:	that is accessible to any many people. And for all the pastors who accuse us of being cowards

01:07:04 – 01:07:10:	and being trolls and ogres and all sorts of other nonsense, the bottom line is this what we are

01:07:10 – 01:07:16:	saying is what scripture is saying. And I will tell Hans and all the other guys that the reason

01:07:16 – 01:07:21:	that that conversation started a few weeks ago was downstream from conversations that you and I

01:07:22 – 01:07:28:	have had. And our churches are full filled with men who agree with you and agree with me, Corey.

01:07:28 – 01:07:35:	And we're not usurping. In our own congregations, we don't pick fights. We don't cause trouble.

01:07:35 – 01:07:41:	What we do is we step forward. So in all these cases where we see girls usurping, whether they

01:07:41 – 01:07:47:	deliberately usurper not, when they're acting is ushers and lectures and all these other things,

01:07:48 – 01:07:54:	the men who agree with us, rather than arguing with those girls, they're stepping forward in the

01:07:54 – 01:08:00:	church. We are doing those things that men have advocated. And that's fundamentally the root of

01:08:00 – 01:08:08:	all of this. From start to finish, the only reason that a girl would ever write a book or try to

01:08:08 – 01:08:15:	be an elder or a lector or any of the other things that goes on is if a man has failed to do so.

01:08:15 – 01:08:22:	And by our publishing house, publishing all these books by girls, what the LCMS is saying is that

01:08:22 – 01:08:27:	there are no pastors to say these things. There are no pastors to teach. We need girls to teach

01:08:27 – 01:08:33:	our theology now. We need girls to teach anything because there are no men to do it. And that's

01:08:33 – 01:08:40:	simply not the case. This got his blessed Lutheranism and his blessed Christianity outside Lutheranism

01:08:40 – 01:08:46:	with faithful Christians who hear his word and obey it, even in the face of the most vicious and

01:08:46 – 01:08:53:	murderous slander. And we are speaking out, we start of this podcast and we will continue to speak

01:08:53 – 01:08:58:	as long as pastors run faithful, as long as we're the only voices who are saying these things to

01:08:58 – 01:09:04:	need to be said, we will be here saying them. It was hilarious that earlier this evening, Hans

01:09:05 – 01:09:10:	posted that thread where he basically said, yeah, for 50 years, all these problems have been going

01:09:10 – 01:09:14:	on in the church and no one said anything until these anonymous cowards started this fight.

01:09:14 – 01:09:21:	But they have a good point. Well, that's exactly why a lot of guys are anonymous. And that's why

01:09:21 – 01:09:26:	Cory and I are never going to pursue the pastoral office despite the fact that virtually every pastor,

01:09:26 – 01:09:32:	both of us have ever talked to his in our first conversation with them. I haven't pastors

01:09:32 – 01:09:37:	interrupt me after 15 minutes saying you should go to seminary. That's the kind of men that we are

01:09:37 – 01:09:43:	in person. And all these guys that think that we're stupid or we're evil or we're up to no good,

01:09:43 – 01:09:47:	not only are they being uncharitable in slanders, but they're also just wrong.

01:09:48 – 01:09:54:	We will remain layman because layman do not have a vocation to a congregation.

01:09:55 – 01:10:00:	I think one of the greatest strengths and greatest weaknesses of the Missouri Synod

01:10:00 – 01:10:06:	is our congregational polity means that every pastor can just be head down with his own sheep

01:10:06 – 01:10:11:	and pretending these other things are not happening. But that's not the way the world works,

01:10:11 – 01:10:15:	especially when you have the internet and you have publishing houses and you have catalogs

01:10:15 – 01:10:21:	where error in any one place will rapidly propagate everywhere. And for every pastor that wants

01:10:21 – 01:10:27:	to pretend this stuff is not happening, his congregation is full of people who are lapping it up

01:10:27 – 01:10:33:	167 hours a week. And that one hour a week that he's preaching faithfully isn't going to cut it

01:10:33 – 01:10:39:	when Satan is catacizing them for the other 167 hours. So as much as we can do anything,

01:10:39 – 01:10:44:	we are going to speak faithfully and may God help us to reach those who are willing to listen.

01:10:47 – 01:10:55:	I want to add a little bit of emphasis to the point that we both made about what is actually

01:10:55 – 01:11:01:	happening when a pastor or another teacher in the church uses materials written by a woman.

01:11:02 – 01:11:09:	And of course, that is the pastor permitting that woman to exercise authority through him.

01:11:11 – 01:11:17:	But it's worse than that. And the reason it's worse than that is because what is a pastor

01:11:17 – 01:11:24:	actually doing? What is a pastor supposed to be doing? A pastor speaks in the stead of Christ.

01:11:24 – 01:11:31:	When a pastor is up there speaking, he is speaking with the voice of God. At the very least,

01:11:31 – 01:11:35:	he is supposed to be speaking with the voice of God. So if a pastor is up there teaching

01:11:36 – 01:11:44:	and he is using materials produced by a girl, he is saying that a girl can speak with the voice

01:11:44 – 01:11:53:	of God. And that is simply not true. Men speak for God. God chose men to speak for him. God made

01:11:53 – 01:12:00:	men to speak for him. He did not make girls to do that. Yes, in public, of course. A woman can

01:12:00 – 01:12:06:	teach her children at home. Absolutely. She should do that. That is one of her duties. We recognize

01:12:06 – 01:12:13:	that because that is her sphere. And a mother can rightly exercise a sort of headship over her

01:12:13 – 01:12:20:	children just as children can exercise a sort of headship over their pets. There are different

01:12:20 – 01:12:26:	levels to the hierarchy. But when it comes to speaking in public, a woman cannot speak with

01:12:26 – 01:12:30:	the voice of God in public in that way. That is something that is restricted to men. And so the

01:12:30 – 01:12:37:	pastor is misrepresenting God ultimately is what he is doing. And that is a grievous sin. And

01:12:37 – 01:12:43:	that should absolutely terrify these men when they stand up and defend the indefensible.

01:12:44 – 01:12:49:	And I just have to say it is funny that they always go after the anonymity thing as if

01:12:49 – 01:12:58:	I've ever been anonymous. They just name and face everywhere. I am very subtle about it. Yes,

01:12:58 – 01:13:03:	they're just absolute hypocrites. And they know it. They're just insufferable hypocrites.

01:13:04 – 01:13:10:	To preantively address one of the criticisms at the last point you made, the argument has been

01:13:10 – 01:13:17:	made against the position that has been advanced against girls publishing books. Well, what about

01:13:17 – 01:13:25:	the grocery store? The distinction in teaching is public. It is the one to many relationship. Every

01:13:25 – 01:13:31:	Christian, male or female has a duty at all times. Young or old, you're five-year-old, whether it's

01:13:31 – 01:13:37:	a boy or a girl, has a duty to share his or her faith in Christ with anyone who will listen. But

01:13:37 – 01:13:42:	those are one-to-one relationships. They're interpersonal. If you're in the grocery store and

01:13:42 – 01:13:48:	your mother and you have an opportunity to share the gospel, you are commanded to do that by God.

01:13:48 – 01:13:53:	We are not speaking against that because although that is a public place for legal purposes,

01:13:53 – 01:13:58:	that is not public preaching or teaching. When a woman shares her faith in Christ,

01:13:59 – 01:14:06:	she's sharing what she knows, hopefully faithfully. But that conversation should always end with,

01:14:06 – 01:14:13:	let me introduce you to my pastor. That's the part that's missing from this. That is where we too,

01:14:15 – 01:14:20:	you and I between us have probably put, I know I personally put at least 100 souls in Lutheran

01:14:20 – 01:14:26:	churches. I'm not taking credit. I did that. The fact that I have represented myself as a Lutheran

01:14:26 – 01:14:32:	online has caused well over 100 men, women, and children to join Lutheran congregations. Not

01:14:32 – 01:14:38:	once have I ever said, join the church of woe. What I have said is, let me help you find a faithful

01:14:38 – 01:14:46:	pastor under whose care you and supervision you will be. And then go and be the best layman that you

01:14:46 – 01:14:52:	can be in that congregation, where you will hopefully someday serve as an elder, where you can

01:14:52 – 01:14:58:	volunteer, where you can set a good example, where you can learn to cataclyze your own family

01:14:58 – 01:15:05:	faithfully. So we are not usurpers of the church. We are attempting to enable the church in a way

01:15:05 – 01:15:13:	that is being battled by the very men who are sworn to God not to do so. And I pray that we can

01:15:13 – 01:15:20:	once again be on the same side, because we ultimately want everyone to hear the gospel. And as I

01:15:20 – 01:15:26:	mentioned earlier, a lot of the men that Cory and I have reached through the work that we have done

01:15:27 – 01:15:32:	have been men. Some of them were baptized as a result. There are several who have been

01:15:32 – 01:15:37:	baptized and cataclyzed just in the last year, because of me posting the very things that pastors

01:15:37 – 01:15:44:	say I'm going to go to hell for. And now these men are attending every Sunday. They are excited

01:15:44 – 01:15:50:	about watching the four-way and daily stream of services. They're reading their Bibles

01:15:50 – 01:15:59:	voraciously. They are working with their pastors. If that is the fruit of an evil tree, then I

01:15:59 – 01:16:09:	don't know what a good tree is supposed to look like. It's just ultimately we actually intend

01:16:09 – 01:16:14:	all of this for the good. Absolutely. There are those who believe that we don't.

01:16:15 – 01:16:20:	And if they're going to believe that, then they can go ahead and believe that. But nothing

01:16:20 – 01:16:26:	we have said, nothing we have posted, nothing we've written, we give any indication that we

01:16:26 – 01:16:33:	desire anything other than what we have stated. We want to get men back into the churches.

01:16:33 – 01:16:39:	And men are not going to come back into the churches, as long as they are just hearing a water

01:16:39 – 01:16:46:	down 20-year-old version of what the culture tells them every day echoed from the pulpits.

01:16:47 – 01:16:53:	Because if we have pastors like that, why on earth would I go to church? It makes so much more

01:16:53 – 01:16:59:	sense to wake up late and go have brunch instead of going to a church where I'm just going to hear

01:16:59 – 01:17:07:	the same nonsense the culture tells me every single day. So instead, we want pastors to be faithful

01:17:07 – 01:17:14:	and actually teach what Christianity is. Not this water down culturally sensitive

01:17:15 – 01:17:24:	version of Christianity that is not. As this podcast goes along, I hope that

01:17:25 – 01:17:29:	I hope that we'll reach the right people. And as we do this, we're going to name names,

01:17:29 – 01:17:34:	we're going to go after people by name for what they've said in public. And it is never done

01:17:34 – 01:17:43:	with malicious intent. It is not with the intent of destruction. It is done with the intent of

01:17:43 – 01:17:50:	calling to repentance because as long as these errors persist, men will be chased away.

01:17:50 – 01:17:54:	And one of the things that we have seen repeatedly is that there are a lot of pastors that think

01:17:54 – 01:18:00:	it's hilarious for the type of men who have come into their very own churches because of the things

01:18:00 – 01:18:05:	that we have said over the past few years. Pastors want those guys to go to hell. They don't want

01:18:05 – 01:18:13:	them in their pulp and they're in their pews. And you could not find a more different spirit dichotomy

01:18:13 – 01:18:19:	than what we see with the response to men who've hold the opinions that are contrary to the world.

01:18:19 – 01:18:24:	And in some cases, as they are learning about Christianity, are contrary to Christianity.

01:18:24 – 01:18:30:	They're ignorant. They've been raised outside the church by an evil world.

01:18:30 – 01:18:35:	We are trying to connect them with pastors who will be faithful to the teachings of God.

01:18:35 – 01:18:40:	And it's astonishing and depressing to me how difficult that is. But the reason that we are

01:18:40 – 01:18:46:	speaking again, it's not it's not to condemn just for the sake of condemnation. It is because I

01:18:46 – 01:18:52:	want there to still be Lutheran churches in 20 years for us and for all of these people who are

01:18:52 – 01:18:59:	trying to come to God to find and to find faithful preaching. And on the trajectory that we're

01:18:59 – 01:19:05:	on today, that's not going to be the case. There will not be a Christian church in 20 years.

01:19:05 – 01:19:10:	And I know the pastors think that's not the case because the case of hell not prevailing and all

01:19:10 – 01:19:16:	that stuff. Yes, that's true. Christianity will always be preserved. But God also promised there

01:19:16 – 01:19:21:	would be a remnant. And God promised there would be a great apostasy. And God promised that many of

01:19:21 – 01:19:26:	those who cry out, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons?

01:19:27 – 01:19:33:	God will say to them, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you. We want that to happen to the

01:19:33 – 01:19:40:	pastors who hate us. We want them to repent and we want the people who want to come to our churches

01:19:40 – 01:19:44:	to find churches that are faithful to God so that we can all meet in heaven and not have any of

01:19:44 – 01:19:50:	these problems. And we can live the perfect lives that God created us to live in the first place.

01:19:52 – 01:20:01:	I think we can sum up, in large part, in addition to the stones crying out, we can sum up the

01:20:01 – 01:20:10:	purpose of this podcast with Ezekiel 33. So you son of man, I have made a watchman for the house

01:20:10 – 01:20:16:	of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. If I say to

01:20:16 – 01:20:22:	the wicked, a wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn

01:20:22 – 01:20:28:	from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

01:20:29 – 01:20:33:	But if you warn the wicked to turn away from his way, and he does not turn from his way,

01:20:33 – 01:20:38:	that person shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

01:20:39 – 01:20:42:	And that's what it comes down to. We don't have a choice.

01:20:43 – 01:20:49:	If Christ disciples, his followers have been silent, the stones would have cried out. The stones

01:20:49 – 01:20:54:	would not have had a choice. The stones would have to have cried out. It would have been their

01:20:54 – 01:21:00:	duty to cry out. Well, it's our duty to address these things, because as was stated previously,

01:21:00 – 01:21:05:	God has given us the ability to see them and the ability to address them. And so we do not have a

01:21:05 – 01:21:13:	choice. This isn't a project because it's necessarily enjoyable or fun. This is something that

01:21:13 – 01:21:20:	has to be done, because there is a duty to do it, and because the consequences of not doing it

01:21:20 – 01:21:23:	are unthinkable. Amen.