Transcript: Episode 0022

“On Women: Scripture and Ontology”

This transcript:
  1. Was machine generated.
  2. Has not been checked for errors.
  3. May not be entirely accurate.
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00:00:00 – 00:00:22:	so

00:00:22 – 00:00:42:	welcome to the Stone Choir podcast I am Corey J. Mahler and I'm woe

00:00:42 – 00:00:48:	today's episode of Stone Choir as well as next week's episode will both be dealing with the

00:00:48 – 00:00:55:	subject of feminism of women's liberation of the role and nature of the woman in the Christian

00:00:55 – 00:01:01:	life in the life of the world and the life of the family and what it means both for Christians

00:01:01 – 00:01:09:	and civilizationally when these things are usurped from outside of the church initially we had

00:01:09 – 00:01:15:	hoped to do this all as one episode the way we did with slavery last week but as we were sort of

00:01:15 – 00:01:20:	talking and discussing and just thinking through what we wanted to say we realized that even

00:01:20 – 00:01:26:	speedrunning just the scriptural part of this was probably going to take even going in a fast

00:01:26 – 00:01:30:	clip you know we'll probably blow past 90 minutes today so rather than trying to shoehorn it on

00:01:30 – 00:01:35:	to one I think we're just going to decide up front to split it into two so today's episode is

00:01:35 – 00:01:42:	going to specifically focus on the scriptural basis for the ontological difference between man

00:01:42 – 00:01:50:	and woman and what God intends by making one of each why are we different how are we different

00:01:50 – 00:01:56:	what was the purpose of our being created differently and unequally and once we establish

00:01:56 – 00:02:01:	that this week next week's episode is going to specifically deal almost entirely with what has

00:02:01 – 00:02:06:	happened really in the West since the Enlightenment it's interesting you can go read through the

00:02:06 – 00:02:11:	Wikipedia article on like women's liberation you know the role the evolution of women in society

00:02:11 – 00:02:18:	and everything in the West there's stuff that happened in Greece and Rome and then there's not

00:02:18 – 00:02:24:	really any updates until the Enlightenment and the reason for that is that when the last of the

00:02:24 – 00:02:32:	pagan kingdoms which were really in Scandinavia finally adopted Christianity feminism as we know

00:02:32 – 00:02:40:	it today in any form died in the West and there was really a homogeneity in the way that Christendom

00:02:40 – 00:02:46:	dealt with and viewed women vis-à-vis men and that only began to change after the Enlightenment

00:02:46 – 00:02:51:	and so that you find us a lot when you're I actually recommend reading Wikipedia articles on

00:02:51 – 00:02:56:	these things because because they're slanted in the liberal direction they're going to be bragging

00:02:56 – 00:03:01:	about what they've done so they're actually very informative in terms of the timeline and what

00:03:01 – 00:03:06:	you'll find in a lot of these sociological so-called subjects the reason we're talking about it is not

00:03:06 – 00:03:11:	sociological it's theological but what you'll find is that you'll have stuff 2000 years ago and then

00:03:11 – 00:03:16:	there's a gap and then in the 1800s it picks up again in the West and that's the reason why is

00:03:16 – 00:03:24:	that morality changed a couple hundred years ago as the West began to abandon Christianity so this

00:03:24 – 00:03:29:	first episode about feminism is going to specifically discuss Christianity what scripture says about it

00:03:30 – 00:03:35:	and then next week we'll talk about the destruction that has been done to the Christian doctrine by

00:03:35 – 00:03:42:	the adoption of notions of feminism whether it's first second or third wave the notion of the brand

00:03:42 – 00:03:47:	new sin of misogyny for which men are now being excommunicated from our churches that's a pretty

00:03:47 – 00:03:53:	big deal that we have a new doctrine that is damning men that for literally 6000 years of

00:03:53 – 00:03:58:	Christian history minus what has happened since the Enlightenment everyone believe the same thing

00:03:59 – 00:04:04:	it's recurring theme on stone choir because it is one of the fundamental issues facing the entire

00:04:04 – 00:04:10:	church so as we get into scripture we're going to begin at the very beginning with Genesis 2.

00:04:10 – 00:04:15:	I think I may actually begin with Genesis 1 because it is then echoed in Genesis 2

00:04:17 – 00:04:23:	but because obviously of course we have two narratives not different narratives but two

00:04:23 – 00:04:28:	narratives the second being an expanded of the first of the creation of man and so I'll start

00:04:28 – 00:04:36:	with Genesis 1 verse 26 then God said let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them

00:04:36 – 00:04:41:	have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock

00:04:41 – 00:04:48:	and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth so God created man

00:04:48 – 00:04:56:	in his own image in the image of God he created him male and female he created them and God blessed

00:04:56 – 00:05:02:	them and God said to them be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion

00:05:02 – 00:05:07:	over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on

00:05:07 – 00:05:13:	the earth now of course it's tempting to turn this into a lecture on Genesis but that's not our

00:05:13 – 00:05:20:	goal today we're going to focus specifically on how scripture treats the interplay between men and

00:05:20 – 00:05:26:	women the nature of woman and things like that and so I want to start here because it is worth

00:05:26 – 00:05:35:	pointing out contrary to what so many argue today this does not actually say that God created woman

00:05:36 – 00:05:44:	in his own image this says that God created man in his own image because it says God created

00:05:44 – 00:05:50:	man in his own image that is singular masculine there and then it says in the image of God he

00:05:50 – 00:05:58:	created him again that is singular masculine and so of course then we have the expanded

00:06:00 – 00:06:06:	narration of the creation of mankind in Genesis 2 starting with verse 15

00:06:07 – 00:06:11:	the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it

00:06:12 – 00:06:17:	and the Lord God commanded the man saying you may surely eat of every tree of the garden

00:06:17 – 00:06:22:	but at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat for in the day that you eat of

00:06:22 – 00:06:29:	it you shall surely die then the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone I will

00:06:29 – 00:06:35:	make him a helper fit for him now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field

00:06:35 – 00:06:40:	and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them and whatever

00:06:40 – 00:06:46:	the man called every living creature that was its name the man gave names to all livestock

00:06:46 – 00:06:51:	and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field but for Adam there was not

00:06:51 – 00:06:56:	found a helper fit for him so the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man

00:06:57 – 00:07:00:	and while he slept took one of his ribs enclosed of its place with flesh

00:07:02 – 00:07:07:	and the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

00:07:07 – 00:07:14:	then the man said this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh she shall be called

00:07:14 – 00:07:20:	woman because she was taken out of man therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and

00:07:20 – 00:07:27:	hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh there are a number of things we need to

00:07:27 – 00:07:35:	pull out of this passage first it is worth noting who named Adam

00:07:36 – 00:07:46:	God named Adam naming is an exercise of ownership of possession of authority over someone or something

00:07:46 – 00:07:52:	that's why parents name their children that's why some people name inanimate objects but why

00:07:52 – 00:07:59:	most people name their pets it is an exercise of ownership and exercise of dominion and so

00:07:59 – 00:08:06:	God brings the animals to Adam Adam names them because Adam is the steward of creation he has

00:08:06 – 00:08:14:	given dominion over all of these things this is a demonstration of the dominion of Adam

00:08:14 – 00:08:22:	over creation and that includes woman because you will note that Adam calls her woman later

00:08:22 – 00:08:28:	on he also names her Eve but here he calls her woman there's some word play here which actually

00:08:28 – 00:08:34:	works pretty well in the English merely is a quirk of historical etymology but because the word that

00:08:34 – 00:08:40:	is used here as opposed to earlier where the generic term for man is Adam in fact the name of Adam

00:08:40 – 00:08:47:	is both man and Adam here it's ish and ishah so it's a play on words there that that does come

00:08:47 – 00:08:56:	through thankfully in the English but we note that woman is created out of man as opposed to man who

00:08:56 – 00:09:05:	was created from the earth there is a theological point there woman is from man man names woman

00:09:06 – 00:09:11:	man is the head of woman and we'll see that of course later more explicitly in other parts of

00:09:11 – 00:09:18:	scripture but man and woman also come back together they were from one flesh Eve having

00:09:18 – 00:09:23:	been created from Adam they come back together as one flesh as man and wife and that is how

00:09:24 – 00:09:31:	the blessings of God to be fruitful and multiply are retained to humanity by that one flesh union

00:09:31 – 00:09:37:	which we call marriage i'm glad that you you jump back to Genesis one to point to the

00:09:37 – 00:09:44:	discussion of the image of God that's reiterated actually in Genesis five it reads when God created

00:09:44 – 00:09:50:	man he made him in the likeness of God male and female he created them and he blessed them and

00:09:50 – 00:09:57:	named them man when they were created this is why we are called mankind this is why linguistically

00:09:58 – 00:10:05:	for example in languages like latin if there was a single man in a group the masculine form would be

00:10:05 – 00:10:11:	used to describe the group the only time you would have the feminine in latin would be if

00:10:11 – 00:10:19:	everyone that you're referring to was female so this has always been baked into creation

00:10:19 – 00:10:23:	it's been baked into previous languages it was baked into the english language until really

00:10:24 – 00:10:32:	the last 30 years or so when suddenly the masculine form of language as generic is no

00:10:32 – 00:10:39:	longer permissible it's called gendered language in fact we have even church bodies like wells going

00:10:39 – 00:10:46:	so far as to change the the creeds to remove the so-called gendered language to say that

00:10:46 – 00:10:53:	christ was created human and not created man which is vulgar on multiple levels but that's

00:10:53 – 00:10:58:	that's the reason that we're pointing to this stuff is that these small small details

00:10:58 – 00:11:03:	that can seem like they're picky and you know why are these guys being defensive why does anyone care

00:11:03 – 00:11:07:	well i think the real question is why do people care when they're pushing in the opposite direction

00:11:08 – 00:11:12:	when someone wants to talk about what the image of God meant at creation

00:11:13 – 00:11:19:	let's listen to what God actually said and he said man was created in his image and when you

00:11:19 – 00:11:26:	look at the the passage in jessing 127 or so it's verbally awkward it would have been much easier

00:11:26 – 00:11:33:	to not say male and female he created them while ignoring the image part if the image were obviously

00:11:33 – 00:11:41:	to apply to both it was simply said so and so that repetition with exclusion has to be significant

00:11:41 – 00:11:46:	and it's repeated it's repeated not only in in genesis it's also repeated in the new testament

00:11:46 – 00:11:51:	i think we'll get to one of those passages later but uh you'd also mention naming is is an active

00:11:51 – 00:11:56:	authority in one of the early episodes we did a name no man knows we spent some time talking

00:11:56 – 00:12:02:	about that about the authority of being able to name something about the reason the pseudonymity

00:12:02 – 00:12:08:	and anonymity makes some people so angry because they want to exercise authority over someone

00:12:08 – 00:12:13:	and they don't know their name and that is limiting when you don't know for example my name

00:12:13 – 00:12:19:	there's only so much you can do to me once you do know my name there's more stuff you can do to me

00:12:19 – 00:12:24:	and when someone wants to do harm to someone when someone wants to they will claim exercise

00:12:24 – 00:12:28:	authority in a godly fashion but we'll see what the results of those will be and they're not going

00:12:28 – 00:12:35:	to be godly uh but the the results will speak for themselves naming has authority and when

00:12:35 – 00:12:41:	adam named eve just as adam named all the other creatures as you said that was an exercise of

00:12:41 – 00:12:48:	dominion and as we discussed last week when we were talking about slavery dominion has come

00:12:48 – 00:12:56:	to mean ruling mercilessly or authoritarianism in the negative sense of the word where if you rule

00:12:56 – 00:13:02:	if you have dominion that's it's the worst thing you can do it's it's inherently an act of cruelty

00:13:02 – 00:13:11:	in our minds today and that's not godly god has dominion over us is that cruelty well that is

00:13:11 – 00:13:17:	absolutely what satan wants us to believe that was the pitch the satan gave to eve the in essence

00:13:17 – 00:13:22:	that god was cruel by not letting them eat the fruit and he said look how delicious is and you'll

00:13:22 – 00:13:30:	be like god and so she fell for it and that's always the pitch that if someone is over you

00:13:31 – 00:13:35:	they're ruthless they're they're heartless they're doing something to you that's bad

00:13:36 – 00:13:42:	and the only way for you to escape this evil that you just realized is to fight the patriarchy to

00:13:42 – 00:13:50:	fight the headship to subvert the rule over you that's the essence of everything that's happened

00:13:50 – 00:13:57:	since the enlightenment in a nutshell that's what's been happening one by one no gods no masters

00:13:57 – 00:14:03:	no masters and slaves no man over woman you can go right through glaciers 320 a you can go right

00:14:03 – 00:14:09:	down the entire hierarchy of headship and you'll find that the worlds today and the morality that

00:14:09 – 00:14:16:	all of us have been taught to hold is fundamentally at odds with created order and one of the reasons

00:14:16 – 00:14:22:	that we're starting in jesus is not only that's the beginning but as we establish that god's headship

00:14:22 – 00:14:28:	beginning with woman being created from man and as a helper i think we're i'm going to refer back

00:14:28 – 00:14:35:	to jesus 218 repeatedly that the the passage then the lord god said it is not good that man should

00:14:35 – 00:14:42:	be alone i will make a helper fit for him that's the essence of everything that we're going to say

00:14:42 – 00:14:47:	here today in both old and new testament because this is before the fall this is before there was

00:14:47 – 00:14:52:	any sin in the world this was before there was the curse against either adam or eve which obviously

00:14:52 – 00:15:00:	applies to every man and to every woman in turn before there was any evil god said it's not good

00:15:00 – 00:15:05:	for man to be alone i'm going to give him a woman i'm going to give him a helper fit for him

00:15:08 – 00:15:11:	the reason that that's going to be important throughout this episode and throughout the

00:15:11 – 00:15:21:	second part of the subsequent episode is that helper inherently has a healthy so adam he existed by

00:15:21 – 00:15:28:	himself he was able to do what he needed to do but god said that's not i'm not done adam needs more

00:15:28 – 00:15:36:	he needs a helper eve on the other hand was created to be a helper in other words her definition

00:15:36 – 00:15:45:	is pointed directly at adam her purpose is to be a helper absent someone to help she has no purpose

00:15:46 – 00:15:52:	and that's fundamentally the root of what we see feminism doing in the hearts and minds of those who

00:15:52 – 00:15:59:	adopt it by any measure is the notion that a woman can be strong and independent and oh that's great

00:15:59 – 00:16:08:	and you go girl and what it does is it fundamentally uproots a woman from the only task to which

00:16:08 – 00:16:13:	god has created her and the only thing that's ultimately going to make her happy so when we

00:16:13 – 00:16:19:	discuss these things like slavery like headship like the roles of men and women it is never

00:16:19 – 00:16:25:	in the pursuit of subjugation or cruelty or saying you are less than you need to be ruled

00:16:25 – 00:16:31:	that's not the point the point is that if god has ordained a certain order and we try to break it and

00:16:31 – 00:16:38:	subvert it what's going to happen the punishment for sin the temporal punishment and there is

00:16:38 – 00:16:43:	temporal punishment for every sin every time you do something wrong god paid for it on the cross

00:16:43 – 00:16:48:	but you're still going to pay the price in this life somehow and the the punishments for these

00:16:48 – 00:16:55:	sins are usually baked right into the sin if you know if someone decides to assert self identity

00:16:55 – 00:16:59:	and they say i was born a man but i want to be a woman now well the first things they do is they

00:16:59 – 00:17:06:	change their name as we said in the name no man knows episode that is an assertion of self ownership

00:17:06 – 00:17:13:	trannies are throwing off the shackles of god and saying i am my own maker i am remaking by

00:17:13 – 00:17:19:	naming myself i'm going to remake my body what do they do when they destroy their bodies and they

00:17:19 – 00:17:25:	destroy their minds by injecting hormones that do not belong in them complete destruction it leads

00:17:25 – 00:17:32:	to madness it leads to despair they consume their own bodies in their sin and because they're given

00:17:32 – 00:17:39:	over to that delusion it's all consuming and in in many cases there's no way for them to get back

00:17:39 – 00:17:45:	out of it because they go down this path of destruction so the sin was believing that god

00:17:45 – 00:17:50:	had made them wrong which is itself high-handed sin but the further they go down that path the more

00:17:50 – 00:17:58:	destruction that sin causes in their lives and so when we talk about the order of creation and how

00:17:58 – 00:18:06:	god has made each of us it's ultimately serving and obeying god and saying if god made me for this

00:18:06 – 00:18:12:	purpose i can't just veto that i can't find a workaround and say i'm going to ignore it

00:18:12 – 00:18:19:	because try as we might our nature is immutable if god made you a man you are a man and if you made

00:18:19 – 00:18:26:	you a woman you are a woman you don't get a vote and if some days you feel a little weird about it

00:18:26 – 00:18:33:	pray for help and if you need to talk to someone seek help but to believe that god made a mistake

00:18:34 – 00:18:39:	is apostasy is to say that god is not god because god cannot make mistakes if you believe that god

00:18:39 – 00:18:46:	made a mistake to either make you a woman or to you know maybe you admit that you made you a woman

00:18:46 – 00:18:49:	but you're going to say well i don't i don't like the role he gave me i want a different role i want

00:18:49 – 00:18:56:	to be in charge that is rebellion against the very god who has given you the gifts of whatever

00:18:56 – 00:19:03:	your station is and so these conversations are important again not not because we are men

00:19:03 – 00:19:10:	who are seeking dominion over other races or over the weaker sex there's nothing of the sort

00:19:10 – 00:19:18:	it's all of us saying god is our head he is ordained order among us the further we stray

00:19:18 – 00:19:23:	from that the worse we make everything and what we see around us in the world today is everything

00:19:23 – 00:19:29:	being made worse by us ceasing to believe that god actually met what he did and met what he said

00:19:29 – 00:19:35:	and so when he says these things in scripture it's imperative for us to listen when i say dominion

00:19:36 – 00:19:42:	i just think lordship and when i use either of those terms from my perspective they're

00:19:42 – 00:19:48:	entirely neutral because i know the etymology and what they mean for most people yes they're going to

00:19:48 – 00:19:56:	have imbibed the implications the world infuses into those terms and that of course is negative

00:19:56 – 00:20:04:	because it is a rejection on the part of the world of rightful hierarchy authority etc but dominion

00:20:04 – 00:20:12:	just comes from dominus in latin which just means lord i have dominion over my property i have dominion

00:20:12 – 00:20:22:	over my dog parents have dominion over their children this is a neutral term how you exercise it

00:20:22 – 00:20:31:	is what makes it good or bad good or evil and so dominion in and of itself is more or less morally

00:20:31 – 00:20:38:	neutral it's good in so far as it is part of god's design for creation but how it is exercised

00:20:39 – 00:20:46:	is what gives it its moral character the reason it's under assault the reason it's under assault

00:20:46 – 00:20:52:	is precisely because satan doesn't want god to be lord he doesn't want jesus christ to be lord

00:20:52 – 00:20:58:	all of this is fundamentally rooted in upending god's headship in his order and that that's why

00:20:58 – 00:21:02:	it's becoming a dirty word and most people today think it is a dirty word you're right and that's

00:21:03 – 00:21:08:	we're talking about this head on precisely because this is a satanic attack feminism

00:21:08 – 00:21:15:	is a satanic attack on god and on the church just as the abolition of slavery as a notion

00:21:16 – 00:21:21:	is a satanic attack it is saying we are all equal we are completely horizontal there's no

00:21:21 – 00:21:27:	differences among men there's no difference between man and woman when god when satan uses

00:21:27 – 00:21:33:	glations 328 as a template for undoing creation we need to pay attention and then we need to fight

00:21:33 – 00:21:46:	back satan was the first rebel elinsky did get that right and the whole goal of rebels in this

00:21:46 – 00:21:52:	sort of area is to overthrow rightful authority it's not saying that rebels are always wrong

00:21:52 – 00:21:59:	because of course someone could rebel against unlawful or wicked uses of authority and that's

00:21:59 – 00:22:03:	a different matter for a different time perhaps we'll eventually get around to an episode on

00:22:03 – 00:22:10:	magnibor and related things but satan's entire goal is to subvert the right ordering of creation

00:22:12 – 00:22:18:	because he wants to be god but of course you may notice the irony there he doesn't want to get rid

00:22:18 – 00:22:25:	of hierarchy he just wants to be at the top of it and that is the same thing that he tries to get

00:22:25 – 00:22:33:	his children to do and so feminism fundamentally is an attempt by women to replace men at the top

00:22:33 – 00:22:38:	of the hierarchy they don't want equality they never want equality that's not the goal satan's

00:22:38 – 00:22:45:	goal wasn't equality with god satan's goal was to be god the goal of feminists is to supplant men

00:22:45 – 00:22:50:	and be in charge in the place of men some of them go so far so they want to get rid of men

00:22:51 – 00:22:58:	i don't know how that's going to work out but they want to be in control they want to take

00:22:58 – 00:23:04:	that role of headship and leadership that god gave to man and make that their own

00:23:05 – 00:23:11:	and i think that's a good transition into the fall we could talk more about teleology

00:23:11 – 00:23:16:	because that was touched on but i think we'll save that for later in the episode or possibly

00:23:17 – 00:23:23:	the next episode instead of just reading through genesis three and i recommend you go and do that

00:23:25 – 00:23:32:	we'll talk through what happens in the fall what the fall is and the nature of the curses that

00:23:32 – 00:23:40:	flow from the fall and so of course we all know the narrative of the fall the serpent deceives the

00:23:40 – 00:23:49:	woman the woman takes the fruit eats and gives it to her husband now scripture is very clear

00:23:49 – 00:23:54:	and this also comes up in the new testament it is the woman who was deceived it is the weaker vessel

00:23:54 – 00:24:02:	who was deceived by the serpent and became a transgressor however her husband is standing there

00:24:02 – 00:24:10:	while she does this and so we could debate almost endlessly as to which sin was the first sin

00:24:12 – 00:24:16:	in the garden anyway because obviously satan has already fallen at this point

00:24:16 – 00:24:24:	he is the deceiver he is bringing sin into the world you have the sin of eve because she listens

00:24:24 – 00:24:30:	to the serpent instead of asking her husband which is what she should have done he's standing there

00:24:30 – 00:24:35:	he is her head he is the one who should make the decision but you also have the sin of adam

00:24:35 – 00:24:42:	who as the head is standing there passively observing when he should have interjected he

00:24:42 – 00:24:49:	should be the one either talking to or rejecting the serpent instead of sitting back and seeing

00:24:49 – 00:24:56:	what happens with his wife and so then we have the curses that flow from this

00:24:57 – 00:24:59:	I'll just read through

00:25:00 – 00:25:07:	all the the fullness of the curses the lord god said to the serpent because you have done this

00:25:07 – 00:25:13:	cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field on your belly you shall go

00:25:13 – 00:25:19:	and dust you shall eat all the days of your life I will put enmity between you and the woman

00:25:19 – 00:25:24:	and between your offspring and her offspring he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his

00:25:24 – 00:25:31:	heel to the woman he said I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing in pain you shall bring

00:25:31 – 00:25:37:	forth children your desire shall be contrary to your husband but he shall rule over you

00:25:37 – 00:25:42:	I'll pause for a second there because the word your desire shall be contrary to your husband

00:25:42 – 00:25:47:	can also be translated your desire shall be for your husband or against your husband will

00:25:47 – 00:25:53:	get bored to that in the discussion it's important to note there that the esv that's a

00:25:53 – 00:25:58:	complete mistranslation that is not an and that is a but and that's really crucial because one of

00:25:58 – 00:26:04:	the things that some feminists have tried to do with this verse when they when it says your desire

00:26:04 – 00:26:10:	shall be contrary to your husband or it shall be for your husband but he shall rule over you which

00:26:10 – 00:26:15:	is false it's trying to set those in opposition to say well maybe one of those isn't quite a curse

00:26:16 – 00:26:21:	when as we get as you get through the rest of what is said of adam every single phrase here

00:26:21 – 00:26:28:	in this passage is a direct curse against the recipient you shall does your just your desire

00:26:28 – 00:26:35:	shall be contrary to your husband is a curse full stop and he shall rule over you is also a curse

00:26:35 – 00:26:42:	now we'll get to that in a minute but I just want to note that when he has V says but they're lying

00:26:42 – 00:26:49:	it's a blatant mistranslation specifically to try to to and interject doubt into whether

00:26:49 – 00:26:54:	this entire thing is a curse as I said when when you read through what it says about adam

00:26:54 – 00:27:00:	every part of it is terrible news even the proto evangelium which is delivered to satan which

00:27:00 – 00:27:07:	is good news for us is a complete curse against satan the promise of a messiah in genesis 315

00:27:07 – 00:27:13:	is a curse that is the worst possible news for satan it's all bad news it just so happens that

00:27:13 – 00:27:19:	the curse against satan is the best possible news for us so every word of this is evil in the

00:27:19 – 00:27:26:	proper sense every word of this is being delivered as punishment for evil yes of the the underlying

00:27:26 – 00:27:35:	greek here the word that the esv translates as but is chi which is and so the the curse on adam then

00:27:35 – 00:27:41:	and to adam he said because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree

00:27:41 – 00:27:47:	of which I commanded you you shall not eat of it cursed is the ground because of you in pain you

00:27:47 – 00:27:52:	shall eat of it all the days of your life thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you and

00:27:52 – 00:27:57:	you shall eat the plants of the field by the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return

00:27:57 – 00:28:04:	to the ground for out of it you were taken for you are dust and to dust you shall return and

00:28:04 – 00:28:10:	that i'll read the the next verse as well because we touched on it earlier but it's good to also

00:28:10 – 00:28:16:	read the verse itself the man called his wife's name eve because she was the mother of all living

00:28:16 – 00:28:25:	and so again we see that exercise of dominion of headship by adam over his wife he names her eve

00:28:26 – 00:28:33:	and so to turn back to the curses the serpent is dealt with somewhat summarily it's just

00:28:33 – 00:28:38:	cursed are you above all livestock and then of course we get the proto-evangelion which

00:28:38 – 00:28:46:	is bad news as stated for sate even if it is good news of course for us but the curse for the the

00:28:46 – 00:28:54:	woman and the man will focus on those two you will note first that the nature of the curse

00:28:54 – 00:29:02:	goes to the core of the nature of the one who is cursed and so adam is cursed with regard to

00:29:02 – 00:29:13:	his work he is cursed with regard to the work of being a gardener a man of the soil a husbandman

00:29:13 – 00:29:18:	because that is what man was made to do we have that in genesis when man was made he was placed

00:29:18 – 00:29:26:	in the garden to work and to keep it that is the purpose for which god made man originally and here

00:29:26 – 00:29:32:	we see that now it will only be about a sweat of his face by labor toil suffering and pain

00:29:33 – 00:29:39:	that work that originally would not have included these things would not have entailed these it would

00:29:39 – 00:29:47:	have been a joyful thing to do this work in the garden now it is toil now it is labor not simply

00:29:47 – 00:29:55:	work and so for the woman the curse also goes to the core of her nature because in her nature she is

00:29:55 – 00:30:03:	a wife and a mother and so it is her pain and childbearing that god multiplies because that

00:30:03 – 00:30:10:	goes to her nature as wife because she can't have children without a husband without a man and mother

00:30:10 – 00:30:14:	because obviously she has the children by burying them and that is where the pain

00:30:15 – 00:30:24:	enters as part of this curse but additionally she is cursed in that her submission to her husband

00:30:24 – 00:30:33:	will no longer be natural as it was before the fall before the fall woman submitting to man is

00:30:33 – 00:30:40:	simply the order of things it is the nature of things now that rests less easily upon woman

00:30:40 – 00:30:48:	now it is in her nature to want to rebel this is sort of a solidifying of what she did in the fall

00:30:49 – 00:30:55:	because in the fall she listened to the serpent she decided for herself she acted as the head

00:30:55 – 00:31:01:	instead of asking her husband instead of letting him be the head yes he should have stepped up and

00:31:01 – 00:31:08:	done it himself but she also should have submitted instead of what she did and so she is confirmed

00:31:08 – 00:31:14:	in this after a fashion and now her desires are contrary to her husband which is to say

00:31:14 – 00:31:19:	she wants to be in the place of headship she wants to rule she wants to be the head

00:31:20 – 00:31:26:	but her desire is also for her husband because woman still has some of that desire

00:31:27 – 00:31:33:	to be in the proper hierarchy to properly submit to her husband it does not come as easily as it

00:31:33 – 00:31:41:	would have prior to the fall but it is still there and of course man shall still rule over woman

00:31:42 – 00:31:49:	this is both a reaffirmation of the nature of things of the order created by god prior to the

00:31:49 – 00:31:58:	fall and a statement of how things will continue to operate after the fall but of course this is

00:31:58 – 00:32:08:	now rule over the woman which is a more active and less agreeable matter than would have been

00:32:08 – 00:32:14:	the sort of headship exercised before the fall and it's important to note with the word that's

00:32:14 – 00:32:20:	translated desire here that only appears two other times in scripture and the most immediate one is

00:32:20 – 00:32:27:	again in genesis four seven just a few you know less than a page later after this curse so I'm

00:32:27 – 00:32:32:	going to read what what was said to you first and then Amelia what was said about Cain to Eve

00:32:33 – 00:32:37:	your desire shall be contrary to your husband and he shall rule over you

00:32:38 – 00:32:44:	and then so Cain was very angry and his face fell the Lord said to Cain why are you so angry and

00:32:44 – 00:32:49:	why has your face fallen if you do well will you not be accepted and if you do not do well

00:32:49 – 00:32:55:	sin is crouching at the door its desire is contrary to you but you must rule over it

00:32:56 – 00:33:01:	and I think it's really important to read these two passages in light of each other

00:33:01 – 00:33:06:	because when we try to imagine what desire might be what's not talking about the sort of

00:33:06 – 00:33:11:	you know lust or any sort of desire that is referred to in the New Testament it's specifically

00:33:11 – 00:33:19:	referring to the type of desire that Cain's sin had against him again it says sin is crouching at

00:33:19 – 00:33:26:	the door its desire sins desire is contrary to you but you must rule over it now that almost

00:33:26 – 00:33:34:	perfectly mirrors the second half of this curse against Eve so the notion that the desire is

00:33:34 – 00:33:43:	almost an operant force outside of the self if a sin can have a desire and Eve's desire both are

00:33:43 – 00:33:50:	contrary to the good thing which is the husband or in Cain's case against himself it was his own

00:33:50 – 00:33:55:	his own sinful nature I think that when you read those passages together it makes very

00:33:55 – 00:34:01:	clear the nature of what the woman every woman has to struggle against and one thing that's

00:34:01 – 00:34:06:	frankly it's really missing from our pastor's preaching and it needs to come back women are

00:34:06 – 00:34:13:	cursed God has cursed women to struggle against their husbands and against their fathers before

00:34:13 – 00:34:18:	that and now with the advent of feminism and many of our pastors today are feminists that's not

00:34:18 – 00:34:24:	only an egregious sin among women feminism is normal in our society as I said you will be

00:34:24 – 00:34:32:	excommunicated from the LCMS if you are a quote unquote misogynist that is the religion of feminism

00:34:32 – 00:34:38:	so it's not a small deal to point out that the woman is cursed in such a way that causes

00:34:39 – 00:34:46:	what she wants to be contrary to what God desires to the order that God has established

00:34:46 – 00:34:53:	and anyone who's who's read dating advice or marriage advice or just if you if if you're a

00:34:53 – 00:34:58:	man and you've been around women for any length of time in a relationship you know that that's

00:34:58 – 00:35:02:	sort of struggle and pushback you know that's called a certain type of testing if you're

00:35:02 – 00:35:07:	familiar with the term I'm not going to mention a year but it never goes away it's something that

00:35:07 – 00:35:13:	is always there and it's a test it's a constant prodding and poking just to see are you still the

00:35:13 – 00:35:20:	man are you still my head because a woman knows the second that a man abdicates his headship

00:35:20 – 00:35:26:	whether he gets tired of it or he's too weak for it or he just you know whatever excuse he has if he

00:35:26 – 00:35:33:	fails to be the head she will come roaring right back just as Eve did and earlier Corey had mentioned

00:35:33 – 00:35:40:	the the order of sins I just want to reiterate the first part of that curse and to Adam he said

00:35:40 – 00:35:45:	because you have listened to the voice of your wife that was his first and that was Adam's first

00:35:45 – 00:35:52:	sin and we inherit Adam's sin we don't simply inherit the sin that he disobeyed God by eating the fruit

00:35:52 – 00:36:00:	we inherit the first sin that he listened to his wife and listen is is another term that has a few

00:36:00 – 00:36:06:	different common connotations it's used it this it's a common word in the Hebrew word that's used

00:36:06 – 00:36:11:	but one of the common connotations is heed or obey and I just I highlighted that here because

00:36:11 – 00:36:19:	this is also echoed a bit later in Genesis in chapter 16 now Sarai Abrams wife had born him

00:36:19 – 00:36:24:	no children she had a female Egyptian slave whose name was Hagar and Sarai said to Abram

00:36:24 – 00:36:30:	behold now the Lord has prevented me from bearing children go into my slave it may be that I shall

00:36:30 – 00:36:37:	obtain children by her and Abram listened to the voice of Sarai so twice in Genesis we have two

00:36:37 – 00:36:45:	major pivotal moments where a husband listens and heeds his wife's evil advice Eve had disobeyed

00:36:45 – 00:36:50:	God she had disbelieved God and she had listened to the voice of Satan and here in Genesis 16

00:36:50 – 00:36:55:	what is Sarai doing she's saying God's keeping me from getting pregnant he told me that I was

00:36:55 – 00:36:59:	going to have a son and now it's years later and nothing's happening you need to go have sex with

00:36:59 – 00:37:06:	my slave so that I can have an heir it was open disobedience and did Abram correct her as Adam

00:37:06 – 00:37:11:	failed to correct Eve no he listened to her and what is the result of that sin we have Muslims

00:37:13 – 00:37:18:	the punishment for all of humanity is a Muslims exist because Abram listened to the voice of his

00:37:18 – 00:37:25:	wife that's a bad punishment there's a huge deal there's left a permanent scar on humanity

00:37:25 – 00:37:32:	the face of the earth on so many nations it's impossible to name them we don't understand

00:37:32 – 00:37:39:	what the human timeline would be like if not for this one sin resulting in the birth of the

00:37:39 – 00:37:46:	air brace and the Muslims that rose among them so temporal punishment for sin sometimes has

00:37:46 – 00:37:54:	far-reaching consequences Abram listened to his wife he did not push back against her curse

00:37:54 – 00:37:59:	she was pushing him just as God had cursed her to be to push not that God caused her to sin

00:37:59 – 00:38:04:	but part of her curse was to suffer under the delusion that she would know better than her

00:38:04 – 00:38:11:	husband what to do and again as we talk in the in the next episode about the genesis and the

00:38:11 – 00:38:17:	root of feminism it's a very opposite of that it celebrates the idea the women would be freed from

00:38:17 – 00:38:23:	the shackles of the bondage to men into having to listen to what men tell them to do to be freed

00:38:23 – 00:38:28:	from mansplaining you know the the fact that there's a term for a man explaining something

00:38:28 – 00:38:34:	that's so derogatory and dismissive he was laugh at it today but that's a big deal the idea that

00:38:34 – 00:38:40:	a man would explain something to a woman has now become a caricature well there's literally the order

00:38:40 – 00:38:46:	that God created and we've gone so far down this path of destruction of godly order the things

00:38:46 – 00:38:52:	that God ordained are now punchlines and scripture is very clear to expand on the

00:38:53 – 00:39:02:	issue of the the Arabs and Islam in genesis 16 later in that chapter he shall be a wild donkey

00:39:02 – 00:39:07:	of a man his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him and he shall dwell over against

00:39:07 – 00:39:16:	all his kinsmen god tells us exactly the nature of the nations that will flow from Ishmael who of

00:39:16 – 00:39:25:	course is the son born to Abraham by a Hagar and i really in a to return to the curse in a very real

00:39:25 – 00:39:32:	way most of the curse falls on man which is of course appropriate because as the head man is

00:39:32 – 00:39:39:	responsible and so the fact that woman rebels yes it's a curse on woman it is something with which

00:39:39 – 00:39:48:	she has to struggle but it really is a curse on man as well because now as a father you have to deal

00:39:48 – 00:39:55:	with rebellious daughters as a husband you have to deal with a rebellious wife this is just a fact

00:39:55 – 00:40:02:	of the fallen nature of mankind we don't get around it by ignoring it we have to deal with it

00:40:02 – 00:40:07:	and as was mentioned pastors need to preach these things these things need to be said to

00:40:07 – 00:40:13:	Christians they are in scripture Christians need to hear them you are supposed to teach the full

00:40:13 – 00:40:18:	counsel of god not just the parts that don't make you uncomfortable and don't make the women

00:40:18 – 00:40:25:	angry with you later on in the bible study this is what scripture says this is what Christians

00:40:25 – 00:40:31:	need to say and it has explanatory power it's not simply a condemnation of sin i mean

00:40:31 – 00:40:37:	the fact that women are cursed we're not going niner niner boo boo look at you like it's not

00:40:38 – 00:40:44:	it's not meant to be insulting it's a fact women are cursed everyone knows that men are cursed

00:40:44 – 00:40:50:	you know men die earlier because our bodies typically are beaten up and even guys who do

00:40:51 – 00:40:56:	work with their minds the stress of those jobs typically causes men to die younger

00:40:56 – 00:41:01:	we get beaten up and worn out as part of the curse and everybody knows it and you know the

00:41:01 – 00:41:06:	joke is that well women live longer because they're more sensible well maybe they live longer because

00:41:06 – 00:41:13:	they're not cursed for their work to be cursed the curse of the woman is to to be ornery to

00:41:13 – 00:41:19:	to be apathy to to cause problems for her husband and it's not malicious and that's why that's the

00:41:19 – 00:41:24:	reason that pastors need to talk about i mean malicious might not be the right word it it's

00:41:24 – 00:41:30:	inherent but it's not inexorable see if you've been in a relationship where a man understands

00:41:30 – 00:41:35:	these things the man will know that he can tamp it down and then the woman will be happy again

00:41:35 – 00:41:41:	it's only when these things are permitted to run wild where the where a girl is permitted to continue

00:41:41 – 00:41:46:	to push and push and push and never get any pushback that the true disaster in a relationship

00:41:46 – 00:41:52:	and ultimately at a civilizational scale occurs if a man knows because you know in the case of

00:41:52 – 00:41:57:	christians a pastor will tell him men who are not christians have learned these things from

00:41:57 – 00:42:01:	places like the manosphere where you're getting some advice that's good and some advice that's

00:42:01 – 00:42:07:	absolutely wicked our pastors are they're only dealing with the other half of the baby they're

00:42:07 – 00:42:11:	they're dealing with the part that's not wicked but they're ignoring the part that god has made

00:42:11 – 00:42:17:	clear so these are matters of wisdom not only condemnation if pastors are telling their flocks

00:42:17 – 00:42:22:	both men and women look women you're going to inherently want to fight your husband or your

00:42:22 – 00:42:29:	father and you need to be aware of it you need to catch yourself and husbands need to be aware of

00:42:29 – 00:42:36:	the fact that their wives are going to do this and the solution for the husband is not to capitulate

00:42:36 – 00:42:42:	not to say yes dear just you know i mean there are obviously times where you have to use sound judgment

00:42:42 – 00:42:47:	but when a woman is being rebellious against god's order a man needs to have the wisdom to

00:42:47 – 00:42:53:	understand the difference between she's doing something she shouldn't do and i'm just being lazy

00:42:53 – 00:42:58:	or i don't want to hear it but there's she's not doing anything wrong like it's not we're not putting

00:42:58 – 00:43:04:	everything on one side or the other but the fact that this curse is absent from preaching and from

00:43:04 – 00:43:11:	discussion among most christians is a crisis because the result again is writ large at a

00:43:11 – 00:43:18:	civilizational level because this test of woman against man has scaled up through feminism

00:43:18 – 00:43:25:	through the franchise being given to women it's gone far beyond the household it's gone far beyond

00:43:25 – 00:43:31:	the wife to husband relationship where now as voters these tests are being applied civilizationally

00:43:31 – 00:43:39:	and the disastrous results are exponentially more severe it's not just one unhappy husband with a

00:43:39 – 00:43:45:	nagging wife it's an entire civilization with women seeking things that they should not seek

00:43:45 – 00:43:52:	and men not saying no you can't do that i am the head we are the heads you must obey us

00:43:53 – 00:43:58:	now it's it sounds offensive to our modern ears to even hear language like that and the point of

00:43:58 – 00:44:03:	us talking about these things is to highlight that that's a godly way to talk it's not automatically

00:44:03 – 00:44:09:	right like a man could say those things and be completely wrong which is why there's the onus

00:44:09 – 00:44:14:	is on the man is to as the head to get these things right to study the order of god to be serious

00:44:14 – 00:44:24:	about his duties and to obey god and to take care of those under his dominion as as sarah's lord and

00:44:24 – 00:44:27:	as there's another passage i think in first peter we're going to get to towards the end

00:44:28 – 00:44:34:	where she specifically commended for calling abraham her lord that is the view the proper

00:44:34 – 00:44:40:	godly view that a woman should have to her husband and if we don't return to that sort of

00:44:40 – 00:44:46:	relationship in families and then civilizationally where men are in charge of these things and women

00:44:46 – 00:44:52:	are not things will continue to get worse and the fact that there's a correlation that is in fact

00:44:52 – 00:44:58:	causative between the advent of these things that we called feminism and the wholesale destruction

00:44:58 – 00:45:06:	of christendom it's not coincidence it is absolutely causal in relationship to expand just a little bit

00:45:06 – 00:45:15:	on your comments with regard to the word desire in the curse on the woman any christian when reading

00:45:16 – 00:45:23:	that section of the curse in genesis three should call to mind roman seven

00:45:25 – 00:45:30:	so i find it to be a law that when i want to do right evil lies close at hand

00:45:31 – 00:45:36:	for i delight in the law of god and my inner being but i see in my members another law waging war

00:45:36 – 00:45:42:	against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members

00:45:42 – 00:45:49:	and so that sin that dwells in your members of which paul is speaking here in romans

00:45:49 – 00:45:56:	that's that desire of women that is contrary to their husbands that desire to rule to be the head

00:45:56 – 00:46:05:	to usurp that is not an inherent part of the nature of woman that is a corruption of the nature of

00:46:05 – 00:46:13:	woman because it is part of sin it is that corruption of sin that is transmitted as original

00:46:13 – 00:46:21:	sin down through the generations and so that is the law of sin and we have to resist that as

00:46:21 – 00:46:27:	christians and so again pastors need to cover this need to be preaching this because it's not

00:46:27 – 00:46:33:	just that men have to do their duty and rule over women although yes men have to do that

00:46:33 – 00:46:39:	and most modern men are not doing it as they should but women also have to struggle against

00:46:39 – 00:46:46:	this sin that is particular to the nature of woman because a wife should submit to her husband

00:46:47 – 00:46:54:	she shouldn't just submit to her husband because he rules over her she should submit to her husband

00:46:54 – 00:47:01:	because that is her duty as his wife and christian women need to hear that from the pulpit they need

00:47:01 – 00:47:08:	to hear that from pastors just as much as christian men need to hear that they are to rule over

00:47:08 – 00:47:13:	their wives yes you are to love your wives as christ loved the church but you are also to rule over

00:47:13 – 00:47:22:	them that is the duty that is the position that god gave you and if you are not doing the things god

00:47:22 – 00:47:30:	gave you to do you are not doing what christians are supposed to do because yes christianity

00:47:30 – 00:47:37:	is a matter of faith in christ yes it is by grace through faith we know that that's not the point

00:47:37 – 00:47:44:	of the things we are addressing typically on this podcast because no one at least no Protestant

00:47:44 – 00:47:52:	disagrees with that we are addressing the matters that have been neglected that so many do not touch

00:47:52 – 00:47:58:	on the parts of scripture that make men uncomfortable because they don't want to deal with it because the

00:47:58 – 00:48:05:	modern world says these aren't the things that really matter anymore it's just love no that's not

00:48:05 – 00:48:13:	the point here there are works that are supposed to flow from a living faith for husbands that is

00:48:13 – 00:48:19:	right management of the household that is dominion over the household that is ruling over wife and

00:48:19 – 00:48:26:	children that is loving your wife and children as christ loves the church but there are duties

00:48:26 – 00:48:32:	for the other members of the household as well slaves are to submit to their masters

00:48:33 – 00:48:39:	are to serve their masters well not just because they're afraid of punishment but because as

00:48:39 – 00:48:44:	Christians you are supposed to do your duty children are supposed to submit to their parents

00:48:44 – 00:48:50:	are to obey their parents the fourth commandment is very clear wives are to submit to their husbands

00:48:50 – 00:48:56:	in all things that's a quote from scripture that is literally what scripture says about

00:48:56 – 00:49:02:	wives submitting to their husbands we'll get to that later and read the context as well the context

00:49:02 – 00:49:09:	doesn't change it that's what it says the full counsel of god is what is supposed to be proclaimed

00:49:10 – 00:49:16:	from pulpits in bible studies from anyone who wants to be or stands up to be has been called to be

00:49:16 – 00:49:23:	a teacher in the church and we have far too few today who are actually addressing what scripture

00:49:23 – 00:49:31:	says we have most men who are pretending to be pastors they will receive a pastor's judgment

00:49:31 – 00:49:35:	the stricter judgment of a teacher because they had the role whether or not they fulfilled it

00:49:37 – 00:49:40:	they're not proclaiming the full counsel of god they are simply parroting the world

00:49:40 – 00:49:48:	and the world is today almost diametrically opposed to the things of god to what scripture

00:49:48 – 00:49:55:	actually says about these issues and that is why we are going over these issues we are going over

00:49:55 – 00:50:04:	them because it is vitally important for Christians to actually believe what god says not what the

00:50:04 – 00:50:10:	world says not what the world said Christians should believe but what god says is true

00:50:11 – 00:50:19:	because god's word is eternally true everything contained in scripture is true today it was true

00:50:19 – 00:50:25:	when it was written it was true before it was written it has always been true because it is god's

00:50:25 – 00:50:32:	eternal will the law is god's eternal will it does not pass away because we now have the gospel

00:50:32 – 00:50:38:	and we have the proto-evangelion here in genesis it didn't do away with the law

00:50:39 – 00:50:46:	because the law again is god's eternal will and it is vital for Christians to order their lives

00:50:46 – 00:50:53:	according to that will in Ephesians 5 the holy spirit through paul writes wives submit to your

00:50:53 – 00:50:59:	husbands as to the lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as christ is the head of the

00:50:59 – 00:51:05:	church his body and is himself its savior now as the church submits to christ so also wives

00:51:05 – 00:51:11:	should submit in everything to their husbands which is what you just you just cited in this

00:51:11 – 00:51:17:	one brief passage it says twice a wife submit to your husbands at the beginning and at the end

00:51:17 – 00:51:23:	so paul's not stuttering here he's reiterating something that's very important and i want to

00:51:23 – 00:51:29:	highlight this passage as a specific refutation of the heresy that's very common today among

00:51:29 – 00:51:36:	many pastors to discuss this concept of what they call mutual submission they want you to think that

00:51:36 – 00:51:41:	oh well sure wives have to submit to their husbands but husbands have to submit to their wives too

00:51:43 – 00:51:50:	if that were true doctrine then necessarily by implication they would be saying that christ

00:51:50 – 00:51:57:	must submit to the church when you read go read Ephesians 2 5 yourself you'll see and in the other

00:51:57 – 00:52:01:	passages we're going to cite in every one of them where it talks about wives submitting to their

00:52:01 – 00:52:09:	husbands as husbands submit to christ and as the church submits to christ the notion that that

00:52:09 – 00:52:16:	polarity could be reversed is heresy it's absolutely false there is no submission of christ

00:52:16 – 00:52:24:	to the church now christ submitted himself on the cross on behalf of the church and as i was

00:52:24 – 00:52:29:	listening to the the slavery episode from last week i realized that i said something i sort of

00:52:29 – 00:52:34:	misspoke a little bit when i was talking about masters having a duty to their slaves i said

00:52:34 – 00:52:40:	something to the effect that masters were slaves to their slaves i didn't really state that clearly

00:52:40 – 00:52:45:	what i meant was that there's always a hierarchy which is something that we cite in scripture god

00:52:45 – 00:52:52:	makes clear masters you to have a master in heaven so don't mistreat your slaves a master is a slave

00:52:52 – 00:52:59:	to god just as the slave is a slave to his master the master's slavery to god

00:53:00 – 00:53:07:	involves a duty to his own slaves so it's not that there's a mutual submission of master and slave

00:53:08 – 00:53:15:	it's that the master himself in obedience to god in slavery to god has a duty of care to those under

00:53:15 – 00:53:20:	him whether it's a master to a slave whether it's a husband to a wife whether it's parents to children

00:53:21 – 00:53:27:	the duty flows from top to bottom from the head through the intermediary to the recipient

00:53:27 – 00:53:31:	and there's not an inversion there but the duty is always flowing upward

00:53:32 – 00:53:38:	children have a duty their parents wives have a duty to their husbands husbands have a duty to god

00:53:38 – 00:53:42:	and so the care flows in one direction the duty flows in the other so

00:53:43 – 00:53:48:	the term mutual submission is patently offensive and it's a sign you're dealing

00:53:48 – 00:53:53:	with a weak if not a false teacher no christian pastor should ever be talking that way it's

00:53:53 – 00:53:59:	become very common precisely because everyone wants to flee from these passages as we've talked about

00:53:59 – 00:54:06:	on a bunch of episodes this is about satan inverting galatians 328 it's about there's no slave nor

00:54:06 – 00:54:13:	free there's no male and female satan wants those categories to be eliminated wants hierarchy to be

00:54:13 – 00:54:19:	eliminated and so what happened with the attack on slavery and what's happening in feminism with

00:54:19 – 00:54:25:	the attack on what they call patriarchy is knocking out that middle support in the three in the

00:54:25 – 00:54:32:	tripartite system so at the bottom you have the one in the greatest position of submission

00:54:32 – 00:54:37:	but also the one to who the greatest amount of duty flows in the middle you have the parent

00:54:37 – 00:54:44:	or you have the husband to whom a duty flows from god through him to his wife to his children

00:54:45 – 00:54:51:	he has dominion over those beneath him in the middle but he has a duty to them so his dominion

00:54:51 – 00:54:57:	over them and duty to them at the same time the dominion flows down from him in his household

00:54:57 – 00:55:05:	but the duty flows from god through him and so the inversion in the destruction of galatians 328

00:55:05 – 00:55:10:	is about knocking out that middle it's about saying there's we're going to smash the patriarchy

00:55:10 – 00:55:15:	we're going to end all masters you can't even use that word anymore reddit actually broke last week

00:55:15 – 00:55:19:	because they pushed a software update that eliminated master from some of their code

00:55:19 – 00:55:24:	and it broke everything like these people have become so obsessed with making sure that master

00:55:24 – 00:55:29:	can't even exist in the english language that they're willing to break their own systems to do it

00:55:30 – 00:55:35:	satan's doing that to civilization too he's eliminating the possibility for us to think in

00:55:35 – 00:55:42:	terms of master and slave of dominion and dominated and to think that dominated means

00:55:42 – 00:55:49:	something terrible when a child who's in dominion of a faithful father or a wife who's in the dominion

00:55:49 – 00:55:57:	of a faithful husband are being served by god through that man and so smashing the patriarchy

00:55:57 – 00:56:03:	is essentially knocking god's hands out of the system and it's it's no gods no masters

00:56:03 – 00:56:11:	the one follows right after the other for a reason and so the idea that the man must submit to the

00:56:11 – 00:56:19:	woman is is really telling you that christ must submit to the church which is evil on its face

00:56:19 – 00:56:23:	that never has and never will happen it cannot happen it's it's ontologically impossible because

00:56:23 – 00:56:29:	of headship because christ is the head of the church just as man is the head of woman

00:56:29 – 00:56:35:	just as god is the head of us all so you have the head and you have the body the body can only act

00:56:35 – 00:56:41:	in accord with the will of the head and it's the duty of the head to act faithfully so when we

00:56:41 – 00:56:47:	advocate these things we're advocating on behalf of faithful headship not just headship for its own

00:56:47 – 00:56:53:	sake of ruling for the sake of ruling and doing whatever you want only a weak and

00:56:53 – 00:56:59:	braved man would think about being in a position of authority and have his mind go immediately to

00:56:59 – 00:57:04:	oh man i'm going to get away with so much now no man who's ever actually had authority would think

00:57:04 – 00:57:09:	that way if you've been in a position of authority where you've been responsible for a lot of people

00:57:09 – 00:57:15:	underneath you are responsible for some great duty you understand the burden of command you

00:57:15 – 00:57:21:	understand that the burden you have to those beneath you flows from the from the duty that

00:57:21 – 00:57:26:	has been given to you from above wherever the above is whether it's god giving you a vocation

00:57:26 – 00:57:34:	or it's a commander giving you an assignment the worst it's your boss giving you a task duty

00:57:35 – 00:57:40:	is neutral as quarry said it can well duty should always be good you know we think of that in positive

00:57:40 – 00:57:47:	terms but how a man exercises dominion is a function of his character and so if there's a man who

00:57:47 – 00:57:52:	tells you that anytime you see dominion you should flee that's a man you should be afraid of because

00:57:52 – 00:57:57:	as a man who is weak and perverted in his soul and he's telling you if i ever get a chance to do

00:57:57 – 00:58:02:	anything i'm going to do it that's that's terrifying that is not christian we're talking about the

00:58:02 – 00:58:07:	opposite of that when we talk about rule and dominion we're talking about doing it in a gracious

00:58:07 – 00:58:14:	and merciful but firm way in a way that does not relent to being pushed back on by those who

00:58:14 – 00:58:20:	are weaker who don't understand who wish to do evil you start you begin with a gentle correction

00:58:20 – 00:58:25:	and then you step it up if you need to because if someone's going to persist in error whether

00:58:25 – 00:58:29:	it's a wife or it's a civilization at some point you have to put your foot down and say it's not

00:58:29 – 00:58:35:	going to happen anymore now obviously the way that manifests will depend on the situation and the scale

00:58:35 – 00:58:41:	but at the end of the day the only thing that will reverse the decline and destruction of christendom

00:58:41 – 00:58:48:	is for faithful men to reassert ourselves in the hierarchy and some will be lower and some will be

00:58:48 – 00:58:53:	higher and we have to get used to wherever that is and serve that position faithfully because all

00:58:53 – 00:58:59:	of that service in duty is ultimately to god i was hoping that you would get to that point about

00:58:59 – 00:59:06:	headship because that is a a key point here and it's very obvious that it's an important point

00:59:07 – 00:59:12:	if you just look at how much it is hated by the enemy by feminists and others

00:59:14 – 00:59:21:	and to emphasize that point we'll turn to 1st Corinthians 11 now i commend you because you

00:59:21 – 00:59:25:	remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as i delivered them to you

00:59:26 – 00:59:32:	but i want you to understand that the head of every man is christ and the head of a wife

00:59:32 – 00:59:34:	is her husband and the head of christ is god

00:59:37 – 00:59:45:	and so the principle of headship is vitally important because there are those who can look at

00:59:46 – 00:59:51:	submission and duty and all these things and attempt to corrupt those terms they have very

59:51 – 01:00:00
clear meanings they teach clearly if you know what they mean but headship is the clearest of the

01:00:00 – 01:00:07:	terms there is no way to look at the term headship and not understand what is meant just look at the

01:00:07 – 01:00:17:	word the head is in control period your foot doesn't tell you what to do that's not to say your

01:00:17 – 01:00:22:	foot can't lodge a complaint your foot can certainly make a request if you step on something

01:00:22 – 01:00:29:	sharp you're going to know that immediately but you as the head are in control of your body

01:00:30 – 01:00:38:	and so the husband is in control of the wife she is the body he is the head christ is in

01:00:38 – 01:00:45:	control of the church she is the body he is the head that is right authority that is the right

01:00:46 – 01:00:49:	order of things that is how hierarchy is supposed to work

01:00:50 – 01:00:58:	and so headship is a vitally important term because people intuitively grasp what is meant

01:00:58 – 01:01:05:	by headship because we all know that the head is in control that the body does not in fact tell us

01:01:05 – 01:01:11:	what we have to do yes the body can make demands yes we have duties to our body we are supposed

01:01:11 – 01:01:18:	to take care of our body it is a gift from god and so you don't starve yourself or otherwise abuse

01:01:18 – 01:01:26:	your body but ultimately the head is in control and there are other verses that speak of disciplining

01:01:26 – 01:01:33:	the body to keep it in line which is a related matter not directly here so don't read too much

01:01:33 – 01:01:39:	into that but it is a related issue of the head maintaining right relationship to the body and

01:01:39 – 01:01:49:	control I'd like to read the rest of the first that first Corinthians 11 passage because it

01:01:49 – 01:01:53:	mirrors directly the points we're making at the beginning from Genesis 2 and 3

01:01:56 – 01:02:01:	every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head but every wife who

01:02:01 – 01:02:07:	prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if

01:02:07 – 01:02:13:	her head were shaven for if a wife will not cover her head then she should cut her hair short

01:02:13 – 01:02:18:	but since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or to shave her head let her cover her

01:02:18 – 01:02:25:	head for a man ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of god but woman is the

01:02:25 – 01:02:33:	glory of man for man was not made from woman but woman from man neither was man created for woman

01:02:33 – 01:02:38:	but woman for man that is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head

01:02:38 – 01:02:46:	because of the angels and this is a passage that we mentioned in the forgotten doctrines episode

01:02:46 – 01:02:51:	earlier we did come and grab back we included head covering I want to begin at the end here where it

01:02:51 – 01:02:56:	just mentions because of the angels because that's something that we don't really know what it means

01:02:56 – 01:03:02:	there's some speculation but I highlight it specifically to make the point it doesn't matter

01:03:02 – 01:03:09:	what it means because when the Holy Spirit says because of the angels that's not justifying the

01:03:09 – 01:03:15:	doctrine that a woman should be in submission with her head covered he's providing an explanation

01:03:16 – 01:03:21:	of some other ontological fact even if we don't understand what it means it doesn't change the

01:03:21 – 01:03:27:	the command and furthermore what do we know about angels even we don't know what this means

01:03:27 – 01:03:32:	we know the angels are immortal beings they're unchanging once they're created they remain

01:03:32 – 01:03:38:	created for all time their nature does not change so whatever was true 2000 years ago

01:03:38 – 01:03:43:	was true 6000 years ago and it's still true today all we need to know about this passage

01:03:43 – 01:03:48:	even if you want to try to use oh well I don't know what that means so it can't count no what it

01:03:48 – 01:03:54:	means is that God has given a command and we don't get to obey it and all the surrounding

01:03:54 – 01:03:59:	discussion where it talks about he is the image and glory of God but woman is the glory of man

01:03:59 – 01:04:05:	woman was not made from man but man was made from woman woman was not made man was not made for

01:04:05 – 01:04:13:	woman but woman was made for man these are direct mirrors of what is said in Genesis before before

01:04:13 – 01:04:21:	the fall these are matters of God's eternal will so a lot of times when you have people come along

01:04:21 – 01:04:28:	pushing the feminist agenda the anti-patriarchal agenda when these passages come up they want to

01:04:28 – 01:04:34:	say oh that was just Paul that was about Corinth that was situational it was cultural doesn't

01:04:34 – 01:04:41:	apply to us we're free in Christ now well weren't they free in Christ no Paul is not talking about

01:04:41 – 01:04:48:	Corinth he's not talking about 2000 years ago he's talking about eternity he's talking about male

01:04:48 – 01:04:54:	and female as God created them in the garden before the fall woman was in submission to man

01:04:54 – 01:05:01:	before the fall as we discussed in the nature of the curse woman's submission to man is not a product

01:05:01 – 01:05:07:	of the fall the fact that woman bridles under that submission is the product of the fall so the only

01:05:07 – 01:05:12:	thing that changed in the fall was not the submission but the fact that it was no longer willing

01:05:12 – 01:05:18:	that it then became unwilling submission which is somewhat ironic because when you look at the

01:05:18 – 01:05:24:	very happiest relationships today between men and women it's the ones where the man is dominant

01:05:24 – 01:05:29:	and the woman is submissive where she is happily submissive she's happy to have a head to not have

01:05:29 – 01:05:35:	to worry about the things that he worries about and she can completely and profoundly appreciate

01:05:35 – 01:05:40:	the things that he does and the things that he sacrificed for her sake and for the sake of their

01:05:40 – 01:05:45:	children so that she doesn't have to deal with it what these feminists whether they're men or women

01:05:45 – 01:05:50:	what they're fundamentally doing by cutting men out of the picture and pushing women forward

01:05:50 – 01:05:55:	is destroying women it's putting them in a position to do things God didn't equip them to do that

01:05:55 – 01:06:01:	they're not permitted to do that they shouldn't be doing and then when they fail everyone gets hurt

01:06:02 – 01:06:07:	and it's one of the problems that we have when we're discussing these sociological issues today

01:06:07 – 01:06:11:	because one of the things that men want to complain about as they all these these women are

01:06:11 – 01:06:18:	doing things wrong whether it's in the church or in civil society yes they are doing things wrong

01:06:18 – 01:06:22:	you know what we did wrong first we put them in a position where they would be making incorrect

01:06:22 – 01:06:26:	decisions outside of their domain and we'll get to a minute what the woman's domain and she the

01:06:26 – 01:06:32:	woman has a domain it's not that their women have nothing to do women have a great deal to do

01:06:33 – 01:06:39:	to be Adam's helper is profound creation wasn't finished until God gave Adam a helper

01:06:40 – 01:06:48:	there's no version of human civilization without women the problem is that women have been removed

01:06:48 – 01:06:54:	from their sphere where God ordained them to act and we as men have rebelled against God and shoved

01:06:54 – 01:06:58:	them into other spheres where they don't belong where they're not equipped where they perform poorly

01:06:59 – 01:07:06:	and we all suffer as a result and so the only way to undo all of these myriad problems all

01:07:06 – 01:07:13:	these layers of failures is to undo them all at once it's not enough just to end women's suffrage

01:07:13 – 01:07:17:	it's we have to go back further than that we have to go back to the point where we realize that

01:07:17 – 01:07:22:	women should not have been put in a position to be forced to make those decisions in the first place

01:07:22 – 01:07:27:	we'll talk about this more next week but if women's suffrage had been put to a vote

01:07:27 – 01:07:33:	for women at the time it would have failed it was men who put forward women to be given the

01:07:33 – 01:07:38:	franchise when the majority of women didn't want it they knew better they knew it was a raw deal

01:07:38 – 01:07:42:	that it was outside of their sphere there was a rebellion against God and it was going to make

01:07:42 – 01:07:48:	everything worse but because they didn't have the vote ironically they then got the vote and we

01:07:48 – 01:07:53:	were off to the races but all of those changes were not godly but we can't just pinpoint one

01:07:53 – 01:07:59:	moment in time and say well roll back to 1850 or roll back to whatever particular date what we

01:07:59 – 01:08:03:	need to roll back is the false doctrines that have permitted us to get to the point where we're

01:08:03 – 01:08:09:	making all of these errors and they're mutually reinforcing errors is not just one mistake it's

01:08:09 – 01:08:15:	dozens and dozens of mistakes that are all interlocking interconnected facets of this

01:08:16 – 01:08:22:	this diamond there's there's a hardness to it that's you can't crack it because there's such

01:08:22 – 01:08:27:	strength in the way it fits together but it doesn't fit together the way God wanted it to

01:08:27 – 01:08:32:	it's interlocking rebellion against God and so what we have to do is just remove the entire

01:08:32 – 01:08:38:	thing at once and so as we're discussing all of these myriad issues it's for that reason

01:08:38 – 01:08:43:	is that there's not just one problem civilizationally to solve it's all these problems that have to be

01:08:43 – 01:08:50:	solved together and that begins with the headship of man over creation over other men over women

01:08:50 – 01:08:56:	over family as long as there's not a man in charge of a household as long as there's not

01:08:56 – 01:09:02:	a man in charge of a country things will happen that are evil guaranteed because it's how God

01:09:02 – 01:09:09:	ordered things in any rebellion against that order is inherently fraught with the wages of sin

01:09:11 – 01:09:15:	so the next passage I want to look at is from 1 Peter 3 that mirrors some of the others but

01:09:15 – 01:09:20:	this also the fact that Peter wrote this instead of Paul gives lie to the notion oh well this was

01:09:20 – 01:09:26:	was Paul being a misogynist well then Peter was a misogynist too in saying either of those says

01:09:26 – 01:09:31:	that the Holy Spirit is misogynist which by modern standards yes God is a misogynist which is the

01:09:31 – 01:09:37:	reason the evil men see that as a sin because in their service to Satan they must uphold their

01:09:37 – 01:09:45:	false religion so here's what Peter says like wives wives be in subjection to your own husbands

01:09:45 – 01:09:50:	so that even if some do not obey the word they may be one without a word by the conduct of their

01:09:50 – 01:09:56:	wives when they see your respectful and pure conduct do not let your adorning be external

01:09:56 – 01:10:00:	the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry or the clothing you wear but let your

01:10:00 – 01:10:05:	adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet

01:10:05 – 01:10:12:	spirit which in God's sight is very precious for this is how the holy women who hoped in God

01:10:12 – 01:10:18:	used to adorn themselves by submitting to their own husbands as Sarah who obeyed Abraham calling

01:10:18 – 01:10:24:	him Lord and you are her children if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening

01:10:25 – 01:10:30:	as I mentioned God sees the woman who is submissive to her husband as very precious

01:10:31 – 01:10:36:	that's substantial that is a profound thing for God to say that when a woman is submissive

01:10:36 – 01:10:41:	to her husband even in the case where the husband maybe isn't doing what he should be doing

01:10:42 – 01:10:48:	which is one of the attacks of feminism on a husband and on patriarchy is the notion well

01:10:48 – 01:10:53:	what if the husband isn't a good husband what then well the same as what if a slave master

01:10:53 – 01:10:59:	isn't a good slave master slaves should obey anyway because they're ultimately serving their duty

01:10:59 – 01:11:06:	to God and when that is done God sees it as very precious it's not simply obedience to him

01:11:06 – 01:11:13:	it is to God God's glory that we obey him this the obedience to God that we are pointing out

01:11:13 – 01:11:18:	it's not for earning salvation which is something we always say there are those who actually think

01:11:18 – 01:11:23:	that that this podcast is all law and then we're trying to say if you don't do these things you

01:11:23 – 01:11:30:	can't save yourself it's just a lie it's a flat out lie we continuously point to God's sacrifice

01:11:30 – 01:11:36:	and his love for us this is about the end then of the Christian life now that we are Christians how

01:11:36 – 01:11:42:	do we live knowing that nothing we can do can save ourselves what do we then do in knowledge and

01:11:42 – 01:11:49:	recognition and through the gift of the Holy Spirit to sanctify our hearts what do we do now

01:11:49 – 01:11:55:	we obey God even when it stinks even when a wife doesn't have a good husband she should still obey

01:11:55 – 01:12:02:	him because he is her head even if a master is evil the slave should still obey him that's the

01:12:02 – 01:12:07:	hard teaching of this it's that things don't always work out and that's the reason that so much

01:12:07 – 01:12:13:	ink is spilled in scripture where the Holy Spirit gives duties to masters and gives duties to husbands

01:12:13 – 01:12:19:	we're not picking on slaves and we're not picking on wives to to bully or to belittle it's to point

01:12:19 – 01:12:26:	out that the so-called liberation of those who are in lower states is the very destruction of

01:12:26 – 01:12:32:	everything that's good and holy it's not liberation to take someone away from their

01:12:32 – 01:12:40:	godly role and set them free as though freedom is some sort of nebulous thing that's like being

01:12:40 – 01:12:46:	thrown into space it's being launched into the vacuum of space where you have nothing the only

01:12:46 – 01:12:52:	way that a slave can be rooted is through his master in duty to God the same is true of a woman

01:12:52 – 01:12:59:	as a as a as a daughter and as a wife her submission to her husband is her anchor to God's

01:13:01 – 01:13:06:	subjugation of her in the best and most holy sense and God's response to that when it's done

01:13:06 – 01:13:14:	faithfully is to view it as very precious before we turn to the last two sections of scripture

01:13:14 – 01:13:20:	for this episode I want to reiterate my recommendation that you read Genesis 3 but

01:13:20 – 01:13:27:	actually go ahead and read one through three but when you read that focus on the wording of what

01:13:27 – 01:13:37:	God says about woman and about man because we don't want anyone to take away the wrong understanding

01:13:37 – 01:13:45:	the wrong view from this episode yes wives are to submit to their husbands and all things as

01:13:45 – 01:13:54:	scripture says but it is vitally important to note the nature of woman what woman is in relation to

01:13:54 – 01:14:04:	man because Adam walked with God in the garden Adam spoke with God Adam knew God face to face

01:14:05 – 01:14:14:	and God still said it is not good for man to be alone that is the nature of the gift that is woman

01:14:15 – 01:14:21:	it is the greatest gift other than of course salvation which at the time Adam did not need

01:14:22 – 01:14:30:	but it is the greatest gift that God made for man woman was made for man as a gift by God

01:14:31 – 01:14:43:	and again to state what scripture says that is a gift from God to Adam who at the time

01:14:44 – 01:14:46:	walked with God and spoke to him face to face

01:14:48 – 01:14:55:	it would be difficult to overstate the nature of the gift God gave to man here

01:14:56 – 01:15:02:	yes there is corruption because of the fall but the good nature is not erased by the fall

01:15:02 – 01:15:09:	original sin is not man's nature original sin is a corruption of man's nature and so I just wanted

01:15:09 – 01:15:18:	to say that to emphasize what scripture actually says in Genesis and what we are and are not saying

01:15:18 – 01:15:22:	in this episode about woman and the relationship of man and woman

01:15:25 – 01:15:30:	it is fundamentally a question of pointing back to what is said in Genesis 2

01:15:30 – 01:15:35:	it is not good that a man should be alone I will make a helper fit for him

01:15:35 – 01:15:41:	and that is precisely what God did when he made woman he made a helper fit for man

01:15:41 – 01:15:48:	and what has been done societally with the false idol of equality with the demon of feminism

01:15:48 – 01:15:54:	is to eliminate the category of helper to say I'm not helping anyone I'm a free woman I'm strong

01:15:54 – 01:16:00:	I'm independent I have a job I have income I don't need to help anybody and then suddenly

01:16:00 – 01:16:06:	she's a 45 year old wine ant with two week vacations where she fornicates with half a

01:16:06 – 01:16:13:	dozen guys halfway around the world and her medicine cabinet is antibiotics and antidepressants

01:16:13 – 01:16:20:	and birth control pills and she realizes that the only thing she has left in yeah and she

01:16:20 – 01:16:27:	realized that there's nothing in her future except for despair and no amount of makeup

01:16:27 – 01:16:33:	and Botox and filters on Instagram are going to take away that despair because what she lost

01:16:33 – 01:16:40:	was being a helper fit for a man by not having a man by not being a proper one flesh union with

01:16:40 – 01:16:47:	a man she has no children she has nothing except for memories of sin and disobedience to God

01:16:47 – 01:16:53:	which is why you see such despair in that set again the punishment for sin is built into it

01:16:53 – 01:16:58:	if you try not to have kids you'll succeed you won't have kids and then guess what you're stuck

01:16:58 – 01:17:04:	with the punishment for that forever the punishment of does this disobeying God and not having kids

01:17:04 – 01:17:08:	is you don't have kids there's not going to be anybody there to take care of you when you're old

01:17:08 – 01:17:15:	there's no one for you to raise up as God commands you to the punishments built in and when we talk

01:17:15 – 01:17:21:	about these things and say obey God it's not to save yourselves it's to to have the life

01:17:21 – 01:17:27:	God wishes for us to have even in this fallen world even with the fall even with the corruption of

01:17:27 – 01:17:35:	sin and the devil prowling as a roaring lion if we focus on scripture and we obey God we can restore

01:17:35 – 01:17:41:	these gifts because they're built into creation when you do the things that are obedience to God

01:17:41 – 01:17:49:	the gifts come naturally even to unbelievers the unbeliever who behaves faithfully in his

01:17:49 – 01:17:53:	marriage is going to be blessed with lots of children he's not going to go to heaven because

01:17:53 – 01:18:00:	of it but the temporal blessing is there through the obedience to God's order even absent knowledge

01:18:00 – 01:18:09:	that God the true God commanded it and so this is about restoring the helper relationship

01:18:09 – 01:18:14:	in all cases not just in some cases it's not optional the second and last passage we're going

01:18:14 – 01:18:19:	to read here is from Titus 2 which a week or two ago I misreferred to as Titus 5 which of course

01:18:19 – 01:18:26:	doesn't exist before we move to Titus I just want to add two things real quick I know we'll get into

01:18:26 – 01:18:34:	this more next week but what we're speaking about here is teleology about telos the end

01:18:34 – 01:18:42:	of things not end in the sense of end versus beginning but end in the sense of that toward

01:18:42 – 01:18:48:	which you should properly be aimed your purpose would be a good way to summarize it

01:18:50 – 01:18:56:	the purpose of woman is as helper fit for a man for her husband

01:18:59 – 01:19:05:	and that's why we are earnest about this and why we treat it as an urgent matter as men

01:19:05 – 01:19:13:	men this is less urgent for us there's earnestness there still with regard to men but the urgency

01:19:13 – 01:19:21:	is not the same because for a woman there is a narrow window within which she can do these

01:19:21 – 01:19:29:	things that God has commanded her to do and be blessed for doing them if a woman waits until

01:19:29 – 01:19:35:	she is 50 years old to marry she will probably not be blessed with children she's no longer

01:19:35 – 01:19:42:	within the window where she can have them that is just a fact of biology unless you happen to be

01:19:42 – 01:19:48:	Sarah and God specifically blesses you to have a child in your old age which is very unlikely

01:19:49 – 01:19:56:	but that is the reason we treat this as such an urgent matter because when teachers pastors and

01:19:56 – 01:20:03:	others lie to young women about these things when their parents tell them no wait to have children

01:20:03 – 01:20:08:	until you get your master's degree until you're established in your career until x y and z

01:20:11 – 01:20:18:	you are stealing they are stealing from these young women any chance of having the blessings

01:20:18 – 01:20:24:	that God would give them if they were faithful because that window is narrow

01:20:24 – 01:20:32:	there are only so many years during which a woman can have children you are not going to be young

01:20:32 – 01:20:38:	forever that's true for men as well and it is better if you have children relatively young

01:20:39 – 01:20:46:	but for men 30s and 40s is fine for women it really needs to be in their 20s and so that is

01:20:46 – 01:20:53:	why we treat this matter as again such an urgent matter because this is not something you can put

01:20:53 – 01:21:00:	off this is not something where you get a do-over you do it right the first time or you're done

01:21:01 – 01:21:08:	because the consequences the temporal consequences once you have them that's it you cannot go back

01:21:08 – 01:21:14:	you cannot do it over you cannot say well now that i have my master's degree and i'm established in

01:21:14 – 01:21:21:	my job now i'll have children it's too late biologically you can no longer have that family

01:21:21 – 01:21:27:	you can no longer reap the benefits of being faithful to God you could be faithful to God still

01:21:28 – 01:21:34:	in so far as you are able to do so at that stage in life but the benefits will no longer be there

01:21:34 – 01:21:40:	because the benefits attend to being faithful at the time when God tells you to be faithful

01:21:40 – 01:21:43:	not when you feel like getting around to doing it

01:21:44 – 01:21:52:	and of course referring to it as biological is simply the scientific explanation for God's

01:21:52 – 01:21:58:	created order that's how God built women and we talked in i think the first episode we were

01:21:58 – 01:22:04:	talking about DNA about the fact that a girl in the in her mother's womb has what will be all of

01:22:04 – 01:22:09:	the eggs she'll ever have in her entire life and they begin to be to die and to be cast off

01:22:09 – 01:22:16:	and by the time she reaches menopause she's out that that is a fixed timer it is like grains of

01:22:16 – 01:22:22:	sand passing through an hourglass that is how God designed a woman differently than a man

01:22:22 – 01:22:29:	men can continue to procreate much later decades later than women and to have a healthy offspring

01:22:29 – 01:22:34:	it does fall off over time but as you said the window is much narrower for women and it's much

01:22:34 – 01:22:40:	earlier and so every lie that is told in our churches and our schools and our society that

01:22:40 – 01:22:47:	pushes girls away from pairing off with a good faithful man early and starting families is

01:22:47 – 01:22:53:	ultimately destructive to their own ends which dovetails well with Titus too it begins older

01:22:53 – 01:22:58:	women which you know in this case would have basically amounted to menopause once you've

01:22:58 – 01:23:02:	stopped having children once your children are out of the home what is your duty older women

01:23:02 – 01:23:08:	likewise or to be reverent in behavior not slanders or slaves too much wine there to teach what is

01:23:08 – 01:23:14:	good and so train the young woman to love their husbands and children to be self-controlled

01:23:14 – 01:23:21:	pure working at home kind and submissive to their own husbands that the word of God may not be

01:23:21 – 01:23:29:	reviled that's a short passage but there's a ton of theological depth there one it makes clear

01:23:29 – 01:23:35:	that older women do have a place for teaching in the church it is teaching younger women these

01:23:35 – 01:23:40:	things this is the only time the women are ever told in scripture that they have something to teach

01:23:41 – 01:23:46:	apart from their own young children if you are an older woman in the church you should be teaching

01:23:46 – 01:23:51:	the younger women what to obey and love your husbands and your children to be submissive to

01:23:51 – 01:23:57:	your husbands and what do we see in the church when this is disobeyed and this is radically

01:23:57 – 01:24:04:	despised even in Lutheranism we see far more faithfulness to this in some of the other adjacent

01:24:04 – 01:24:09:	Protestant denominations than we see among any Lutherans in this day and the reason for that

01:24:09 – 01:24:16:	is that the word of God is indeed reviled among us this passage is despised by the LCMS today

01:24:16 – 01:24:21:	you'll be excommunicated if you believe this if you say that the wife should be submissive

01:24:21 – 01:24:28:	to their husbands with no asterisk that's misogyny that's absolute misogyny you will be

01:24:28 – 01:24:36:	declared damned by the LCMS corporation so these are not inconsequential matters not only for

01:24:36 – 01:24:43:	civilization not only for order in the home but in the church they are matters of whether or not

01:24:43 – 01:24:49:	our church bodies are apostate or remain Christian and they're church bodies that are absolutely

01:24:49 – 01:24:55:	embracing apostasy why so that they can remain friends with MSNBC so that they can remain friends

01:24:55 – 01:25:02:	with Rolling Stone and with occupied democrats those are the people who today celebrate the

01:25:02 – 01:25:07:	actions of some of our church bodies that's not the company you want to keep because if you keep

01:25:07 – 01:25:12:	that company in this life you're going to be keeping that company in eternity one of the best

01:25:12 – 01:25:18:	ways that a woman can achieve this status of being a respected older woman in the congregation

01:25:19 – 01:25:24:	and having younger women actually listen to her is simply being faithful in her own marriage which

01:25:24 – 01:25:33:	of course is what she is supposed to train the younger women to be because if you are a grandmother

01:25:33 – 01:25:39:	or a great grandmother if you have a hundred grandchildren and great grandchildren the younger

01:25:39 – 01:25:44:	women in your congregation are going to be more likely to listen to you than if you are a spinster

01:25:44 – 01:25:51:	with 15 cats that is simply the reality of it and that's how it should be because if you are the

01:25:51 – 01:25:58:	latter most likely the advice you have is simply do not be like me that's the best advice you could

01:25:58 – 01:26:04:	offer to the younger women if you are the grandmother the great grandmother who has been blessed by

01:26:04 – 01:26:11:	god for your faithfulness and you have dozens of grandchildren you can tell them imitate me

01:26:12 – 01:26:18:	i can tell you what to do in your lives because i have already done it and god blessed me because

01:26:18 – 01:26:25:	i did it i did what he told me to do and look at the blessings i have when you can give that

01:26:25 – 01:26:33:	concrete example of your life and show people this is what god will do for you because this is what

01:26:33 – 01:26:39:	it says in scripture this is how he made creation this is simply the natural consequences not in

01:26:39 – 01:26:43:	the negative sense of the term but just in the neutral in this case positive sense of the term

01:26:44 – 01:26:49:	if you are obedient these are the consequences if you are faithful in your marriage to your

01:26:49 – 01:26:56:	husband god will give you children if you are faithful in raising up those children they will

01:26:56 – 01:27:01:	pursue the same sort of life that you had and they will also be blessed in their marriages with

01:27:01 – 01:27:08:	children if you have six children and each one of those children has six children you have 36

01:27:08 – 01:27:17:	grandchildren this is exponential one generation to the next you can over not as many generations

01:27:17 – 01:27:22:	as you may think if you're not particularly mathematically inclined build your own nation

01:27:24 – 01:27:29:	if you are simply faithful to god which of course in this case very clearly means not

01:27:29 – 01:27:38:	practicing birth control but a faithful christian woman barring of course medical issues and such

01:27:38 – 01:27:44:	there's always the caveat even if we don't mention it but barring those things a faithful christian

01:27:44 – 01:27:54:	woman should probably be a grandmother by about 50 many times over by 60 that is the natural course

01:27:54 – 01:28:02:	of things when husbands and wives are faithful to god in their marriages that is simply how it

01:28:02 – 01:28:08:	works because that is how god designed it and so the older women who have been faithful for decades

01:28:08 – 01:28:13:	in their marriages in their lives should be teaching the younger women to do the same

01:28:14 – 01:28:18:	because that is how we relay these things yes we teach from the scriptures

01:28:19 – 01:28:28:	yes we attend the services on sunday etc but it is also vitally important that one generation

01:28:28 – 01:28:34:	relay this information to the next with the concrete examples of look at these individuals

01:28:34 – 01:28:39:	who are faithful and how god blessed them that is vitally important when training up children in

01:28:39 – 01:28:45:	the way they are supposed to go so that when they are old they will not depart from it mathematically

01:28:46 – 01:28:54:	it is entirely realistic for one couple to end up with a thousand living descendants in their

01:28:54 – 01:29:01:	lifetimes if you have 10 kids they have 10 kids they have 10 kids it's entirely possible if you're

01:29:01 – 01:29:05:	blessed with long life for you to be alive to see all of them and of course some of the first are

01:29:05 – 01:29:10:	going to be having you know another generation so you might not see an entire generation but you're

01:29:10 – 01:29:16:	going to see multiple iterations it's literally possible again with god's blessing of both long

01:29:16 – 01:29:23:	life and fecundity of all of your descendants for you to have a thousand descendants alive in your

01:29:23 – 01:29:30:	lifetime the reason we don't see that anymore is that we are ashamed and we revile god's word

01:29:30 – 01:29:36:	and we despise him that's the sole reason for it as we see faithful husbands and wives

01:29:36 – 01:29:40:	returning to true godly living we see family sizes like that again for the first time in

01:29:40 – 01:29:46:	generations and it is a blessing the last thing that we want to focus on is something that's

01:29:46 – 01:29:52:	referenced here within the description of the Titus II woman which harkens back to the very

01:29:52 – 01:30:00:	beginning that a helper fit for Adam wives are not merely vessels for producing children that is

01:30:00 – 01:30:06:	one of their most important roles but that is it is part of the role is as Corey mentioned

01:30:06 – 01:30:12:	the curse of Eve touches on both of them it touches on her relationship with her husband

01:30:12 – 01:30:18:	and on childbearing so we talked a lot about childbearing but we're going to end with what

01:30:18 – 01:30:23:	does the helper part mean because in the middle of this in Titus II it says they are to teach

01:30:23 – 01:30:30:	the younger women to work at home now there's been discussion in the past on this podcast and

01:30:30 – 01:30:36:	online and elsewhere about where is it permissible for women to work and so we're going to end in

01:30:36 – 01:30:43:	Proverbs 31 you probably heard of the Proverbs 31 woman before it's it's a verse that's used very

01:30:43 – 01:30:49:	often as a proto-feminist verse to say well go girl here's all the stuff you can do the reason

01:30:49 – 01:30:56:	that we've presented all of this and saved that for last is to frame the nature of the work that

01:30:56 – 01:31:03:	the Proverbs 31 woman does in view of her role as a helper for her husband and in view of her role

01:31:03 – 01:31:13:	as Titus II says of working at home and so reading from Proverbs 31 an excellent wife who can find

01:31:14 – 01:31:19:	she is far more precious than jewels the heart of her husband trusts in her and he will have no

01:31:19 – 01:31:26:	lack of gain she does him good and not harm all the days of her life she seeks wool and

01:31:26 – 01:31:32:	flax and works with willing hands she is like the ships of the merchant she brings her food from afar

01:31:33 – 01:31:39:	she rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maidens

01:31:40 – 01:31:44:	she considers a field and buys it with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard

01:31:44 – 01:31:50:	she dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong she perceives that her merchandise is

01:31:50 – 01:31:57:	profitable her lamp does not go out at night she puts her hands to the distaff and her hands hold

01:31:57 – 01:32:03:	the spindle she opens her hands to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy she is not

01:32:03 – 01:32:09:	afraid of snow for her household for all her household are clothed in scarlet she makes bed

01:32:09 – 01:32:15:	coverings for herself her clothing is fine linen and purple her husband is known in the gates when

01:32:15 – 01:32:21:	he sits among the elders of the land she makes linen garments and sells them she delivers sashes

01:32:21 – 01:32:26:	to the merchant strength and dignity are her clothing and she laughs at the time to come

01:32:27 – 01:32:31:	she opens her mouth with wisdom and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue

01:32:32 – 01:32:37:	she looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness her children

01:32:37 – 01:32:44:	rise up and call her blessed her husband also and he praises her many women have done excellently

01:32:44 – 01:32:51:	but you surpass them all charm is deceitful and beauty is vain but a woman who fears the Lord

01:32:51 – 01:32:56:	is to be praised give her of the fruit of her hands and let her works praise her in the gates

01:32:57 – 01:33:04:	I think that when you view Proverbs 31 in light of everything else that we've cited here which

01:33:04 – 01:33:10:	of course you must because scripture is one there's no there's no setting these passages in opposition

01:33:10 – 01:33:17:	this is a beautiful exposition of the nature of a woman of a wife as a helper to a man and I think

01:33:17 – 01:33:24:	if you read the nature of the tasks that she's performing here they're all household tasks

01:33:24 – 01:33:30:	now it doesn't literally mean that she stays inside all day that's not that's not the nature of

01:33:31 – 01:33:36:	the relationship between husband and wife that we think is part of the Christian religion

01:33:37 – 01:33:42:	the point is that what she does is in service to her husband as a helper and that includes

01:33:43 – 01:33:48:	producing wealth in some cases if it is a part of his household and there are things that she can do

01:33:48 – 01:33:57:	that builds up the household but what is absent from this and is not simply temporarily bound is that

01:33:57 – 01:34:02:	she's not going off far away and doing something totally unrelated and bringing home the bacon

01:34:02 – 01:34:07:	that's not the purpose of this even when it talks about her producing things and taking them

01:34:07 – 01:34:12:	to the markets she's selling them to vendors to sell things now it's a small point but I mean

01:34:13 – 01:34:18:	I would think that today this would be akin to to a wife having an Etsy storefront and producing

01:34:18 – 01:34:23:	things and then selling them you know if it's something that's good if it's something that's

01:34:23 – 01:34:29:	not you know shameful or pornographic that's great and there there are absolutely ways that

01:34:29 – 01:34:36:	women can do more than cook and clean and make babies and raise them that are also godly and

01:34:36 – 01:34:43:	that's one of the caricatures that's set up in opposition by the religion of feminism against

01:34:43 – 01:34:50:	what Christianity says about the womanly role a wife's role isn't just one thing it's multifaceted

01:34:50 – 01:34:55:	and this is this is how proverbs ends and it's one of the few places in proverbs where it goes on

01:34:55 – 01:35:03:	and on about these a single topic at length and because this is wisdom being passed from a father

01:35:03 – 01:35:08:	to son and of course from god to all of us we should take particular care to pay attention

01:35:08 – 01:35:13:	if you have a wife who is capable of these things you know who's who's physically capable of doing

01:35:13 – 01:35:18:	things around the house like if your wife and your wife is weaker than you obviously because

01:35:18 – 01:35:23:	you're a man you're you're much stronger than her but that doesn't mean that her own weakness

01:35:24 – 01:35:27:	is necessarily something to be celebrated she should be as strong as she can be

01:35:27 – 01:35:32:	as strong as she needs to be you know it's not saying your wife needs to be a crossfitter

01:35:32 – 01:35:38:	I think that presuses some some questionable results sometimes but the point is that these

01:35:38 – 01:35:44:	things are godly and they're not in opposition to the nature of a woman being a helper and they're

01:35:44 – 01:35:50:	not in opposition to Titus making clear that the epistle to Titus that these are things that

01:35:50 – 01:35:55:	happen within the home all of this fits together to say that there is much that a woman can do

01:35:56 – 01:36:02:	that doesn't require any of the women's liberation that we've been sold in the last couple hundred

01:36:02 – 01:36:08:	years none of that is required for the godly life all of these things are obedience to god

01:36:08 – 01:36:12:	and they're a blessing to the household they're obviously a blessing to the husband

01:36:12 – 01:36:17:	in this in Proverbs 31 the husband's proud he's grateful to have such a wonderful wife

01:36:17 – 01:36:22:	who wouldn't be proud and grateful to have a wife like that the question is do you need the

01:36:22 – 01:36:28:	lies of feminism to come along and say oh well this is a proof text to say you can do so much more

01:36:28 – 01:36:33:	think about how much richer you could be if you had even more wealth if you did even more outside

01:36:33 – 01:36:39:	the home if you left the household and pursued greater wealth because that is when she has

01:36:39 – 01:36:45:	ceased to be a helper and is seeking to be an equal and that is when these things get upended

01:36:45 – 01:36:51:	and it happens by a matter of degrees it's not an on off switch there there are small degrees by

01:36:51 – 01:36:56:	which something may be permissible that by a large degree suddenly becomes a usurpation and it's a

01:36:56 – 01:37:03:	matter of godly wisdom for a faithful husband to know the difference to be able to say this far

01:37:03 – 01:37:08:	and no further and everyone wins and so as we talk about these things it is ultimately about

01:37:08 – 01:37:13:	upholding everything that God says but not shying away from this part of why we say this for last

01:37:13 – 01:37:18:	again is that this is sort of seen by by some who are trying to pretend that they're trad and

01:37:18 – 01:37:23:	conservative that it's actually an anthem for feminism if you read it rightly well I think

01:37:23 – 01:37:28:	if you read in light of everything else that we've cited it's clearly not an anthem for feminism

01:37:28 – 01:37:35:	it's an anthem for a helper who is a godly helpmeat one who works within the home as Titus

01:37:35 – 01:37:40:	describes and is the pride of her husband and the joy of his life and that's the sort of god

01:37:40 – 01:37:47:	blessing that's sort of blessings god gives us when we obey him in all of our vocations as husband

01:37:47 – 01:37:52:	as wife whatever task you have do it faithfully and you will be blessed as Proverbs 31 describes

01:37:53 – 01:37:59:	in this entire issue what we're really focusing on is a simple foundational truth

01:38:00 – 01:38:08:	you will never be happier than when you are obeying God that doesn't mean that there won't be trials

01:38:08 – 01:38:13:	that there won't be challenges that there won't be sorrow and pain in life because we live in a

01:38:13 – 01:38:23:	fallen world but the best possible life you can lead is a life of obedience to God now that doesn't

01:38:23 – 01:38:31:	mean that there isn't pleasure and enjoyment amusement whatever else you may find in a life

01:38:31 – 01:38:37:	of rebellion to God you may find that for a time and so the woman who goes off to college

01:38:37 – 01:38:45:	and is promiscuous and generally does whatever comes to mind with no regard for the things of

01:38:45 – 01:38:54:	God or what she should be doing may very well have an enjoyable 10 years 15 maybe 20 if she's lucky

01:38:56 – 01:39:01:	but she will have destroyed the rest of her life in the process and not only hers

01:39:02 – 01:39:07:	because she destroyed any potential life that she would have brought into the world

01:39:07 – 01:39:11:	had she been a faithful wife instead of what she chose to become

01:39:12 – 01:39:16:	and so

01:39:17 – 01:39:22:	the point that we are making of course the the point is always the truth of Scripture and that

01:39:22 – 01:39:28:	all of Scripture matters but the point that we are making is that as Christians we must live the

01:39:28 – 01:39:34:	sort of life that God tells us to live and believe that God will bless us when we do so

01:39:34 – 01:39:40:	because Scripture does not just speak of eternal blessings of crowns in heaven of

01:39:40 – 01:39:46:	such things as that Scripture speaks of temporal blessings I believe that I will look on the

01:39:46 – 01:39:52:	goodness of the Lord and the land of the living Scripture is very clear that when you are true

01:39:52 – 01:39:59:	to God God will bless you again that does not mean that your life will be perfect that there

01:39:59 – 01:40:05:	will be no trials that there will be no challenges that is not what Scripture promises Scripture

01:40:05 – 01:40:09:	in fact promises that there will be trials there will be tribulations there will be challenges

01:40:10 – 01:40:19:	but God will see you through them and for women the way that you are faithful to God

01:40:19 – 01:40:27:	is to fulfill your role as a helper that is what God made you that is what you are

01:40:29 – 01:40:37:	and as a creature which this applies to man and woman equally we are both creatures of God

01:40:37 – 01:40:45:	as a creature the Creator made us for various purposes if we rebel against those purposes

01:40:45 – 01:40:53:	we are going against our true nature we are going against our true end our telos and we will suffer

01:40:53 – 01:41:00:	for it if we rebel against the Creator rebel against his order rebel against what he designed

01:41:00 – 01:41:08:	for us because what he designed for us is good because he is good and so as creatures

01:41:10 – 01:41:16:	that for which we should strive is a life lived according to our nature

01:41:17 – 01:41:25:	according to the role for which God designed us the role into which he placed us for men

01:41:25 – 01:41:29:	that of course is all the various things that God assigns to the realm of men

01:41:30 – 01:41:37:	chief among them of course being husband leader father all of those various roles of headship

01:41:39 – 01:41:44:	and the roles to which God assigned women chief among them of course being

01:41:44 – 01:41:52:	wife and what flows naturally from that mother if we fulfill our roles as we are supposed to

01:41:52 – 01:42:00:	fulfill them as God assigned them to us then he will bless us if we look at the state of our

01:42:00 – 01:42:06:	society currently we can very clearly tell that we are not blessed by God and the reason for that

01:42:06 – 01:42:15:	should be clear we are not blessed by God because we do not obey God our women rebel against God

01:42:16 – 01:42:22:	instead of being wives and mothers they go off to university and become professors

01:42:22 – 01:42:30:	and corporate leadership that is not the role for which God made woman God made woman to be

01:42:30 – 01:42:40:	a helper for man that is the role in which she is happiest that is the role in which she fulfills

01:42:40 – 01:42:49:	the end for which God made her that is the only role in which humanity continues in such a way

01:42:49 – 01:42:56:	that we will be blessed by God because everything breaks down when the family breaks down and the

01:42:56 – 01:43:05:	family breaks down when Satan comes in and suggests feminism and men and women both adopt it women

01:43:05 – 01:43:12:	adopt it because we go back to that curse in Genesis the desire to rebel to become the head

01:43:12 – 01:43:20:	that is why women go in for feminism and men go in for it because it's easier because being the

01:43:20 – 01:43:26:	head is hard because being the head requires work because being the head means you will answer to

01:43:26 – 01:43:33:	God for what you did and what you failed to do and so it seems easier if like Adam in the garden

01:43:33 – 01:43:39:	you stand back and just watch the snake talk to the woman well I don't have to be head I can just

01:43:39 – 01:43:46:	stand here and do nothing but that doesn't work because as a man God made you the head

01:43:47 – 01:43:54:	and it is your duty to fulfill that role that he gave you and as a woman God made you a helper

01:43:55 – 01:44:02:	and it is your duty to fulfill that role that he gave you and so it is incumbent on Christian women

01:44:04 – 01:44:08:	to be wives and mothers and it is incumbent on those Christian women

01:44:08 – 01:44:14:	who fulfilled that role over a course of decades and are now the older women described in Scripture

01:44:14 – 01:44:22:	to teach the younger women to do the same if we return to God as it says so many times throughout

01:44:22 – 01:44:29:	Scripture then he will surely turn to us and bless us if we continue to rebel against God

01:44:29 – 01:44:36:	there is no floor things can always get worse

01:45:00 – 01:45:06:	oh

01:45:16 – 01:45:17:	you